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realbez posted:Real answer is there isn’t really a term for them afaik but they get put on limited services. As in they don’t get any help with any issue they have that predates their joining. That depends upon the union or the organizer (and the individual), I think. My parents were both organisers (in different unions) and would always still help(*) with those "just about to" or just joining up to solve a problem. Sure a chunk would then lapse back out or not help with anything else but a solid percentage would become "born-again" union members. For my old man, a lot of people are not in the union out of ignorance and thinks it improper to hold that ignorance against them. (*)depending on the help, not gonna get union salary assistance but would go in to bat for them, organize legal advice etc.
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May 2, 2020 08:54
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hambeet posted:is he trying some kevin rudd colloquialisms? he's always affected that persona quote:Immigration Minister Scott Morrison says a decision to remove resettlement eligibility in Australia for refugees in Indonesia is a case of "taking the sugar off the table".
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May 2, 2020 08:54
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Electric Wrigglies posted:That depends upon the union or the organizer (and the individual), I think. I've work for or with six unions. No one gives you anything if you just join for an existing individual issue. Like you might get referred to a website or something but an IO or organiser that wastes time on an individual issue you've just joined for is basically wasting member's money.
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May 2, 2020 09:04
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JBP posted:I've work for or with six unions. No one gives you anything if you just join for an existing individual issue. Probably more a point of definition on what is pointed to internet site and what is going in to bat but agreed that it is likely not going to be substantive help and certainly not at the expense of or prioritized over current members. Chatting further with dad, some of his union mates would not give the time if it was asked for before joining.
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May 2, 2020 10:19
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Thanks. Someone at my work joined the union just as mass redundancies were announced, eventually chose redundancy not long before the union got the company to put those of us who remain on Jobkeeper, and just called us lazy and ungrateful victims for taking advantage of annual/sick leave to avoid coming into the city when we can.
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May 2, 2020 10:29
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snoremac posted:Thanks. What a colossal tool
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May 2, 2020 10:57
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So, an idiot then
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May 2, 2020 11:11
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I'm sure he's now busy complaining about dole bludgers because the redundancy means he can't get Jobseeker + Covid for 3 months
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May 2, 2020 11:31
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https://twitter.com/sexenheimer/status/1256502945257975809
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May 2, 2020 12:51
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and they'll all just keep watching on their phones anyway
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May 2, 2020 13:15
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why
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May 2, 2020 13:18
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Sent from my iPhone
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May 2, 2020 13:37
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Yeah we have a rule, 6 months back dues if you join with a pre-existing dispute. If it's a collective dispute or a restructure, we will often waive this because we usually pick up 5+ members at a time, but we ain't a charity. If you join up because you think your boss is coming after you for something and you end up in front of HR a few weeks later, tough poo poo. It takes more than a month of your dues to pay for an hour of an industrial officer's time.if you end up in the commission, it's going to cost many, many hours.
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May 2, 2020 16:34
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I get why it’s like this, because you don’t want people just joining for one thing and quitting later, but loving hell. It’s a bit mercenary. Telling people you’re not going to help them until they’ve given you a bunch of money isn’t exactly building solidarity. At that point you’re just an insurance company. And I say this as a former union member.
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May 2, 2020 22:16
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Endman posted:I get why it’s like this, because you don’t want people just joining for one thing and quitting later, but loving hell. It’s a bit mercenary. If it wasn't this way we'd have everyone doing it. There are sheds that used to join the union two months before an eba then quit when it was done. You have to tell them to get hosed next time. Organisers are usually more than happy to see if there's an organising solution for a new member with a problem, but a lot of the time you'll go to your other members and they won't want to help because the new person is some kind of outcast bastard. Don't even get me started on Shrewd Businessman who is a member for selfish reasons, won't participate in any kind of action and votes Liberal, but understands that ~$300 after your tax back is a fine investment. JBP fucked around with this message at 00:07 on May 3, 2020 |
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May 3, 2020 00:00
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No wonder why people don't want to join unions anymore
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May 3, 2020 00:04
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Endman posted:I get why it’s like this, because you don’t want people just joining for one thing and quitting later, but loving hell. It’s a bit mercenary. If you want help with your one specific issue, get a lawyer? They’ll charge fees that are commensurate to the amount of work you are asking.
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May 3, 2020 00:06
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Stevefin posted:No wonder why people don't want to join unions anymore Expand.
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May 3, 2020 00:07
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They're loving stupid and think the virus isn't real. Probably going to be the people who cause another local outbreak if they're not already weirdos who live in their caves to protect them from the government cameras and spy satellites.
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May 3, 2020 00:12
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Endman posted:I get why it’s like this, because you don’t want people just joining for one thing and quitting later, but loving hell. It’s a bit mercenary. I don’t see how letting the guy that ‘doesn’t believe in unions’ (but enjoys the benefits of an eba negotiated by the union) take advantage of the union the second he finds out that his employers actually won’t act in his best interest increases solidarity
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May 3, 2020 00:43
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realbez posted:I don’t see how letting the guy that ‘doesn’t believe in unions’ (but enjoys the benefits of an eba negotiated by the union) take advantage of the union the second he finds out that his employers actually won’t act in his best interest increases solidarity The guy has been asked to join fifty times at this point. His membership isn't of any value. Sometimes it's better to burn one of these people and pick up some new, decent members that go "poo poo I should stop delaying and just sign my card".
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May 3, 2020 00:45
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Endman posted:I get why it’s like this, because you don’t want people just joining for one thing and quitting later, but loving hell. It’s a bit mercenary. Literally the entire loving point of a union is that you are like, United together. You can’t do that without the money to support your members Members aren’t united if they just come in when they need help but don’t pay when the job is good (often it’s good because of union action!) It’s like refusing to pay taxes until you need a hospital visit for you heart then complaining that the hospital is charging you money. It doesn’t work
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May 3, 2020 00:48
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JBP posted:The guy has been asked to join fifty times at this point. His membership isn't of any value. Sometimes it's better to burn one of these people and pick up some new, decent members that go "poo poo I should stop delaying and just sign my card". Yeah exactly. It’s not like these guys are unaware of the union and it’s benefits.
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May 3, 2020 00:49
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teacup posted:Literally the entire loving point of a union is that you are like, United together. Look, I get all this and I acknowledge the reasons it is this way. It just sucks that the most common reason people probably have for joining a union - having a problem in the workplace right now - is something most unions will tell you to get hosed on unless you've been a due paying member for ages. It's a Catch-22 and it sucks; I just wish there was a better way. Obviously you should still join your union if it's not the SDA.
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May 3, 2020 01:16
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While we're chatting about unions I've been considering joining Professionals Australia for a while. Does anyone have an opinion on them?
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May 3, 2020 01:24
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This job sucks I wish I could get a payraise They don't pay me enough to be able to afford to join a union. - The many ad sales people stuck on 50k at News Corp.
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May 3, 2020 01:25
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The one time I was in a union, I was in it for a year. After a year, the company outsourced the callcentre work off shore, and the union could and did do, nothing. That was my only interaction with the union. That's my union story.
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May 3, 2020 01:25
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Anidav posted:This job sucks I wish I could get a payraise My mate who is a teacher constantly complains the union does nothing for her. She lives in Victoria where the union had huge stop works to get a pay rise. She complains about the union magazine and poo poo.
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May 3, 2020 01:31
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Even when I'm in poo poo workplaces, that won't unionise I still join one because even the biggest of companies still fucks up super and payroll.
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May 3, 2020 01:33
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Anidav posted:Even when I'm in poo poo workplaces, that won't unionise I still join one because even the biggest of companies still fucks up super and payroll. imagine how many are going to mess up jobkeeper because their exec ticked the wrong box or something
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May 3, 2020 01:47
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teacup posted:My mate who is a teacher constantly complains the union does nothing for her. She lives in Victoria where the union had huge stop works to get a pay rise. She complains about the union magazine and poo poo. As a relatively new teacher, the union doesn't do much to lobby for the stuff that would benefit me the most (increased support, reducing workload, etc). I'm still a member though. Talking with older colleagues who are more switched on to the politics of it, while in theory the union is supposed to look after all teachers equally, logically it directs most of its finite energy and resources towards the interests of the bulk of its members (older boomers on permanent contracts). We had some negotiations on a pay rise last year and the CRTs were initially thrown under the bus - my co-worker guessed that because so few of them join the union, the union didn't try to negotiate that point very hard. (IIRC there was a big stink on social media and the proposed cuts to CRT pay were done away with in the final deal).
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May 3, 2020 01:53
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ABC reporting a primary school teacher in Epping, Vic has tested positive for coronavirus and the school would have to be closed. Sorry for the teacher and worried families etc. but huge fan of the timing, with Morrison and Tehan trying to pressure Dandrews into opening the schools.
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May 3, 2020 01:59
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Whitlam posted:ABC reporting a primary school teacher in Epping, Vic has tested positive for coronavirus and the school would have to be closed. Sorry for the teacher and worried families etc. but huge fan of the timing, with Morrison and Tehan trying to pressure Dandrews into opening the schools. Open schools our children are hurting* *unlike our teachers who could die
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May 3, 2020 02:14
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PMed Electric Wriggles to let him know and that he should post his thoughts on the matter itt
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May 3, 2020 02:24
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Tgent posted:While we're chatting about unions I've been considering joining Professionals Australia for a while. Does anyone have an opinion on them? Would like to hear about people’s experiences with them too. Haven’t joined a union since changing jobs and would like to.
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May 3, 2020 02:39
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Tgent posted:While we're chatting about unions I've been considering joining Professionals Australia for a while. Does anyone have an opinion on them? I would also like to hear opinions on Professionals Australia.
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May 3, 2020 03:13
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Comstar posted:The one time I was in a union, I was in it for a year. After a year, the company outsourced the callcentre work off shore, and the union could and did do, nothing. That was my only interaction with the union. That's my union story. Yeah those situations suck. They should have made sure everyone was getting entitlements paid out and stuff, but that's kind of all you can offer if it's a legal change unfortunately.
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May 3, 2020 03:51
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Ethics_Gradient posted:As a relatively new teacher, the union doesn't do much to lobby for the stuff that would benefit me the most (increased support, reducing workload, etc). I'm still a member though. WA teacher and all our union does is lobby for increased support and reduced workloads, less meetings, less paperwork, etc. They really are good and they show up at the drop of a hat, they have a great phone line and have always gotten back to me even when the questions I had were sort of related. I had an issue, that should not have been an issue at all, and they assigned me a case worker who walked me through it, regularly called me up to make sure my mental health was okay (it wasn't), and gave me annecdotes about other people who had dealt with a similar issue. Issue was resolved and was determined to not be an issue, my school were idiots. Honestly, the union advocates for its members, they set the agenda, branches put things forth and votes on what they want the union to pursue, and vote in their union reps and what not. If you want the union to look after people in your age bracket, you have to join and be active. It's not that the union is choosing to protect those specific members, those members are setting the agenda, unions are democracies. WA's staffing situation is hosed and the union has been chasing the Department up on it since they hosed it.
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May 3, 2020 03:54
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I think KKK is absolute garbage, but is there a reason I’m missing that makes weighting migration in favour of permanent migrants instead of temporary migrant workers bad? The main effect of temp workers is bringing in an easily exploitable workforce to keep wages down isn’t it? What’s the conversion rate of people coming on temps and transitioning to permanent residency, is the concern on shutting the door on people who won’t qualify for more stringent PR visas straight up? Or is the main concern (a very justifiable one) more that this is absolutely going to play in the most racist way possible. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/put-australian-jobs-first-labor-calls-for-migration-overhaul-after-pandemic-20200501-p54p0i.html
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May 3, 2020 04:31
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Solemn Sloth posted:I think KKK is absolute garbage, but is there a reason I’m missing that makes weighting migration in favour of permanent migrants instead of temporary migrant workers bad? I think it’s fair but ultimately it should be fair, easy and non discriminatory to have people move out to Australia. We should have limits but also a generous amount of refugee intake proportional to our population. Ultimately in a recession it will be very difficult to see justification for say, Italians being the only people employed on Lygon street, or those random British door knockers you get. Give those jobs to Australians, or people planning on being here long term. (Hint: half these jobs only exist as they can abuse migrant workers, so good riddance to those jobs if they go)
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May 3, 2020 04:48
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