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I also don't see him as being particularly smug? Like, it'd be significantly more obnoxious and gross if he was pretending that he wasn't the most dangerous person in the room. It's not smugness, it's just honesty.
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May 2, 2020 20:42
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theres a difference between perfect nonviolence in a violent world and not actively pursuing perfection of violence im sure if you asked meti, what if after ive learned carpentry and calligraphy and the finding of herbs in the forest, someone comes to rob me and burn down the house i have built, that she would reply "well then you cut his loving head off"
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May 2, 2020 20:51
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Hypocrisy posted:Yeah, he's a bag of tools. You missed the emphasis. Zoss didn't say White Chain was dead, only that Allison cannot save her. That means she either needs to call in help or find a way for White Chain to save herself.
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May 2, 2020 20:55
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Hypocrisy posted:Also, poor Alison. Incubus with the amazing advice of "go Super Saiyan and wreck" and Zoss zooming in saying "your friend is dead." Great work guys. IMO this is deliberate and the point is that Allison will eventually come to a synthesis that transcends these losers.
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May 2, 2020 20:56
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i don't think anyone knows what they're talking about
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May 2, 2020 21:00
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Brain Candy posted:IMO this is deliberate and the point is that Allison will eventually come to a synthesis that transcends these losers. I really can't imagine what sort of stance Abbadon will take with this that would be philosophically satisfying.
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May 2, 2020 21:04
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Smug could definitely work fine for Zoss. While he certainly isn’t the greatest Hero, he also probably isn’t the greatest Villian. But he most certainly is the uncontested Greatest. How could someone not be smug about being god?
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May 2, 2020 21:04
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Patware posted:i don't think anyone knows what they're talking about *gestures in the fifth way, YISUNishly* i am a consummate bullshitter
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May 2, 2020 21:05
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Hypocrisy posted:Yeah, he's a bag of tools. zoss' line to allison was "you cannot save her," emphasis on you he's dangling a line somewhere, only question is whether we'll get to see what he means explicitly or implicitly my guess is that zaid is going to be the key to getting out of this with minimal bloodshed
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May 2, 2020 21:10
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Solomon's teachers told him that violence was a cycle he had escaped from, just like them. But escaping from that cycle meant watching his home get conquered while they had the power to do something about it, and in the end there really was someone strong enough to make them face the consequences of that.
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May 2, 2020 21:12
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Uh I think Zaid exists to be a Mcguffin, and I completely expect him to die in some stupid way so that Allison can finally figure out what she actually wants to do because "rescue Zaid" is no longer a useful placeholder quest.
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May 2, 2020 21:13
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M_Gargantua posted:Uh I think Zaid exists to be a Mcguffin, and I completely expect him to die in some stupid way so that Allison can finally figure out what she actually wants to do because "rescue Zaid" is no longer a useful placeholder quest. If he dies, then she's got "revenge." If he lives and is just a random guy on earth that she's no longer attracted to, and in fact probably has trouble even relating to, THEN she has to really think about what her quest is.
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May 2, 2020 21:19
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M_Gargantua posted:Smug could definitely work fine for Zoss. While he certainly isn’t the greatest Hero, he also probably isn’t the greatest Villian. But he most certainly is the uncontested Greatest. How could someone not be smug about being god? Because in order to become god you have to be over being god If you want to be god or you think being god is something worthy of your effort, you're not truly free. You have an attachment and a desire and that rules you. Actually being royalty means not giving a poo poo about being royalty, otherwise you're just stuck pretending like all these demiurges
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May 2, 2020 21:19
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There Bias Two posted:I really can't imagine what sort of stance Abbadon will take with this that would be philosophically satisfying. I read Zoss was original supposed to be Nietzsche and Zoss is doing something with cycles so maybe it's amor fati
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May 2, 2020 21:27
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Al-yisun escapes from thoughtless violence (Incubus!) by loving the totality of herself, including the bad impulses and explicitly her bad experiences.
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May 2, 2020 21:31
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What if she takes the advice of just about everyone worth listening to about having to transcend the cycle of violence... and challenges Solomon to a drinking contest.
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May 2, 2020 22:11
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If you question the advice that meti should have given up the sword to become a noodle vendor, on the basis that she would have been ganked in the yellow city, I would posit the question of, has becoming one of the deadliest masters of the sword in the multiverses actually been a net improvement over living a happy, if short, life as a noodle vendor raising a family? Her home still got obliterated, her family is presumably all dead, she’s a wandering drunkard vagrant now and she can’t even make a bowl of noodles to eat.
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May 2, 2020 22:17
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Brain Candy posted:This is also Zoss right now with non-intervention. Maybe the secret of kings is that the world doesn't need any kings. I just articulated how this explicitly is not the case. Your reading here has no basis in the text 
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May 2, 2020 22:39
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apropos of nothing, "separating men from their ghosts" is such a good line
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May 2, 2020 22:40
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I think my issue is more that only people with power get an actual choice in the matter. So it's a bit cheeky to advocate for being a happy peasant who will get obliterated when they themselves will never be in that position. "Hi, yes, you, you and your loved ones are probably hosed but you should be okay with that. My life of sick kung-fu kicks sucks, I'm always busy kicking people."
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May 2, 2020 22:41
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Rhaka posted:I think my issue is more that only people with power get an actual choice in the matter. So it's a bit cheeky to advocate for being a happy peasant who will get obliterated when they themselves will never be in that position. again id submit that meti's philosophy is its fine to learn sword arts, its just that you should regard them as a distasteful thing not unlike knowing how to muck out a pigsty. nobody calls themselves an adherent of pig arts, but if youre going to build your house and farm your fields, you still need to know how to do it
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May 2, 2020 22:45
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the thing shes advising against is the pursuit and unthinking adoption of violence. the thing she seems to have the most distaste for is the demiurges ''using the infinite fire of creation in a way that a man would use a sharp rock"
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May 2, 2020 22:49
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Rhaka posted:Something bugs me about Zoss, Meti, Maya etc. advocating for not being a violent shithead and making noodles instead. You can live a good, honest life until some rampaging army comes around to end it, and not contribute to the problem; or you can be part of rampaging army and kill a lot of innocent people who were living a good, honest life, before eventually getting killed by someone who's better at killing than you -- or just less tired of constant murder, either/or. In any case you die, but there's one path where you're less of a dickhead.
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May 2, 2020 22:52
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paranoid randroid posted:again id submit that meti's philosophy is its fine to learn sword arts, its just that you should regard them as a distasteful thing not unlike knowing how to muck out a pigsty. nobody calls themselves an adherent of pig arts, but if youre going to build your house and farm your fields, you still need to know how to do it paranoid randroid posted:the thing shes advising against is the pursuit and unthinking adoption of violence. the thing she seems to have the most distaste for is the demiurges ''using the infinite fire of creation in a way that a man would use a sharp rock" I think this is a fair take on Meti which makes sense. If you're gonna throw down be suitably disgusted by yourself. But there's still a notable element of "don't be capable like me, perish instead", which might not be what they're explicitly saying, but it is what their stance amounts to. Only a tremendous idiot would be Meti's student and she doesn't train simpletons--why not? Why not impart your moral lessons, if that's what you're really doing, on those choosing violence? Because you'd rather they never chose to learn how to muck our their pigsty, even if they'll probably get murdered for it? Not being part of the problem doesn't change the fact that people have a problem--a problem you will not experience because you already ruined your life yourself. It's a weirdly privileged position to take. The Very Wise Frog puts his money where his mouth is, unlike Meti and Zoss.
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May 2, 2020 23:05
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Maybe people who loathe themselves and live in barrels are not the best people to take advice from
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May 2, 2020 23:26
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Brain Candy posted:Maybe people who loathe themselves and live in barrels are not the best people to take advice from only a fool would ask for her tutelage and she does not train fools
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May 2, 2020 23:33
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The funniest part is you can tell Incubus thought he was the only dream-advisor Allison had and then suddenly it turns out Allison has been talking to Zoss the whole time he'd known her, not to mention actually taking Zoss's advice. Imagine getting the one thing you have one-upped.
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May 3, 2020 00:10
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"What the hell girl, I thought we had something special?"
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May 3, 2020 00:16
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TheDemon posted:The funniest part is you can tell Incubus thought he was the only dream-advisor Allison had and then suddenly it turns out Allison has been talking to Zoss the whole time he'd known her, not to mention actually taking Zoss's advice. Imagine getting the one thing you have one-upped. This is partially a good reveal that Allison's way better at deception than you might think. Just casually being on a first name basis with The King of Kings is not something I'd be good at hiding from people.
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May 3, 2020 00:17
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Tulip posted:This is partially a good reveal that Allison's way better at deception than you might think. Just casually being on a first name basis with The King of Kings is not something I'd be good at hiding from people. that's not really a matter of deception since i bet people aren't really asking her if someone they all think is dead and gone is hanging out in her mindscape
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May 3, 2020 00:24
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Brain Candy posted:Maybe people who loathe themselves and live in barrels are not the best people to take advice from Only if you're a coward.
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May 3, 2020 00:58
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banging two pots together in the middle of the junkyard, loudly announcing that im in the market for a trash auntie to impart questionably vague wisdom upon me in exchange for noodles and liquor
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May 3, 2020 01:05
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reminds me a lot of this:
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May 3, 2020 01:08
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You can not save her Zoss says, while looking downward. Where Incubus fell on his rear end. Incubus cannot save Allison. Zoss isn't talking to Allison about White Chain
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May 3, 2020 01:11
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winterwerefox posted:You can not save her nyeeeah I'm not feelin' it.
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May 3, 2020 01:36
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Perhaps he's talking to both of them.
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May 3, 2020 01:56
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Zoss has no time for the incubi of the world, he's got to prepare the final parts of his abdication. Dude is like the one guy actually able to do 4d chess moves
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May 3, 2020 02:13
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I kinda wonder just how 'real' each of these dudes are, I always assumed Zoss was in Allison's noodle but incubus just knocked over a chair... was it an imaginary chair just there for him to stumble over? did a chair just randomly fall over because Allison was hallucinating too hard or is incubus really appearing randomly to chat with her in all these places?? How do ghosts / idealized david bowie inspired fantasy projections work??? The real 108 stars will be the ghosts of people allison has picked up and added to her mind, just thronging teams of people living in her brain haunting her all the time.
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May 3, 2020 02:16
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Rhaka posted:Not being part of the problem doesn't change the fact that people have a problem--a problem you will not experience because you already ruined your life yourself. It's a weirdly privileged position to take. There are two problems with this. One, it is absolutely a problem that you will experience even after you ruin your life. There is always a bigger badass, you cannot escape a violent end just by being the biggest badass; Meti learned this. Two, mastering the sword means ruining a lot more lives than your own. There seems to be a very high correlation, approaching 100%, between being a kung fu badass and being a war criminal. Maybe the monks of ki rata managed to get where they were without doing a war crime along the way... maybe. But even if they did, what good did it do anyone in the end? They're all smears and so is everyone who ever opposed their student. The universe as a whole would be way better off if they had decided to master baking instead.
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May 3, 2020 02:17
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Motherfucker posted:I kinda wonder just how 'real' each of these dudes are, I always assumed Zoss was in Allison's noodle but incubus just knocked over a chair... was it an imaginary chair just there for him to stumble over? did a chair just randomly fall over because Allison was hallucinating too hard or is incubus really appearing randomly to chat with her in all these places?? How do ghosts / idealized david bowie inspired fantasy projections work??? I mean, neither of these are hallucinations in that they are not purely projections of Allison's own inner thoughts. They're real, external people who are influencing her dreamscape. That's a dream chair that Incubus knocked over.
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May 3, 2020 02:26
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