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Wait which is right Orcs or Orkz or Orcz or Orks?
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May 2, 2020 22:14
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The Ultimate Doge posted:Saying orcs are racist is correct (they very obviously represent our old impressions of humans from band and chiefdom societies, or sometimes of humans with lower socioeconomic status like soccer hooligans and african americans) but also counter-productive. Fantasy stuff is inherently fascist but it allows the fascism present in every person to be indulged in a harmless way without directing it to political ends. When you start forcing people to confront it and making it an open shameful issue instead of something politely ignored, you get rid of that release valve “the fascism present in every person” lmao
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May 2, 2020 22:16
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PawParole posted:This argument that essentially different species inside of a fantasy space who are essentially different is some kind of racist dog-whistle is actually racist itself . It’s pretty loving offensive, like when PETA tries to be woke and compares owning a dog to slavery. Lol no it isn't. It's a literalization of the racist idea that other races aren't human. Most of fantasy is about exaggerating and literalizing stuff like that
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May 2, 2020 22:17
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the idea that, at our core, humans are really just racist and fascist, and we suppress that with Powerful Thought And Ideology is some real dumbass dark enlightenment poo poo, and also complete horseshit
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May 2, 2020 22:20
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PawParole posted:This argument that essentially different species inside of a fantasy space who are essentially different is some kind of racist dog-whistle is actually racist itself . It’s pretty loving offensive, like when PETA tries to be woke and compares owning a dog to slavery. how white are you
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May 2, 2020 22:21
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Omnicarus posted:Wait which is right Orcs or Orkz or Orcz or Orks? orkz is 40k orcs orruks are age of sigmar orcs 
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May 2, 2020 22:25
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Autism Sneaks posted:how white are you the only white part of me are my eyeballs. ( and my nails, I haven’t cut them enough since Ramadan started)
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May 2, 2020 22:26
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it is p funny how the chapo orc expert is maybe a warcraft and dnd orc expert if even that i bet he has never even played of orcs and men or orcish inn  also being ignorant of warhammer lore means your understanding of warcraft is limited since there is a tolkien>dnd>warhammer>warcraft evolution Percelus has issued a correction as of 22:29 on May 2, 2020 |
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May 2, 2020 22:27
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PawParole posted:This argument that essentially different species inside of a fantasy space who are essentially different act differently is some kind of racist dog-whistle is actually racist itself . It’s pretty loving offensive, like when PETA tries to be woke and compares owning a dog to slavery. 
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May 2, 2020 22:31
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orcs aren't racist, they can't be racist due to the power balance between them and humans
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May 2, 2020 22:34
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Percelus posted:as someone that was a teenager when nu metal came out, got very into it and went to see the family values tour even which was the nu metal coachella, it's awful music that no one should look fondly back at or listen to in 2020. other forms of rock hold up but nu metal is such absolute garbage and the only decent rock in the 90s was stuff like alice in chains, tool, red hot chili peppers 
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May 2, 2020 22:34
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branson is right that warcraft is insanely more racist than the fantasy properties where orcs are always bad guys instead of bad guys who did a heel turn
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May 2, 2020 22:34
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there is literally a cutscene in battle for azeroth with the trolls doing the wakanda forever thing except zandalar forever i posted it in this thread or the previous one
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May 2, 2020 22:36
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RHCP may be lame but they will be much more enduring than nu metal.
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May 2, 2020 22:36
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im not the biggest chili pepper fan but i can't deny there are some talented musicians in the group and they have some p alright songs tool are a bunch of tools who managed to write some good music
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May 2, 2020 22:37
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Varinn posted:the idea that, at our core, humans are really just racist and fascist, and we suppress that with Powerful Thought And Ideology is some real dumbass dark enlightenment poo poo, and also complete horseshit I didn't mean that people are racist and fascist at our core, I mean that we have some inherent tendencies in those directions, just like we have all kinds of unsavory innate impulses we have to deal with and avoid acting on for moral purposes
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May 2, 2020 22:41
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the orc discourse started because a podcaster posted an excerpt from a d&d 5e book that talked about how no matter what orcs will always be destructive monsters and that no matter how "domesticated" they are they have to struggle with their murderous impulses every day and yeah you can draw some parallels with old (and sometimes disturbingly still current) racial stererotypes because it does sound like something loving gobineau would write, but imo its just a lazy and outdated way to handle orcs. even as a middle-schooler browsing the 3.0 monster manual i remember seeing orcs listed as "chaotic evil" and i was like nah that's dumb
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May 2, 2020 22:41
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Dmitri-9 posted:RHCP may be lame but they will be much more enduring than nu metal. they are indeed the more boomer-approved band to blast through your bluetooth speaker at family reunions
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May 2, 2020 22:45
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Trabisnikof posted:orcs aren't racist, they can't be racist due to the power balance between them and humans orcs can’t be racist because they’re a different species, and race is always pseudoscientific nonsense, whether it’s the aryan race or the “negro” race or the British claims that the Irish were a variety of bog dwelling gorilla. The only differation in human beings is like coloration and facial feature shape. The Orcs are literally a loving different species. Of course they act different, just like a zebra doesn’t act like a wolf!
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May 2, 2020 22:45
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PawParole posted:orcs can’t be racist because they’re a different species, and race is always pseudoscientific nonsense, whether it’s the aryan race or the “negro” race or the British claims that the Irish were a variety of bog dwelling gorilla. depends entire on if half-orcs are fertile
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May 2, 2020 22:48
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Serf posted:the orc discourse started because a podcaster posted an excerpt from a d&d 5e book that talked about how no matter what orcs will always be destructive monsters and that no matter how "domesticated" they are they have to struggle with their murderous impulses every day i mean its lazy and outdated because its rooted in unexamined weird racist ideas. i dont know why people twisted themselves into knots to say "its not racist raicst, its just ..." we can say that these ideas are bad and should be discarded and move on.
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May 2, 2020 22:49
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shadowrun has dwarves, elves, orks, and trolls in it as well as humans and the rules book has this helpful little tidbit of information:quote:Contrary to ethnic races, metagenes seem immune to recombination, miscegenation, and dilution. Although members of different metatypes are able breed with one another, the child always expresses only one of the parent’s metatypes—or is born human (as a result of conflicting metagenes suppressing expression).
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May 2, 2020 22:51
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Varinn posted:i mean its lazy and outdated because its rooted in unexamined weird racist ideas. i dont know why people twisted themselves into knots to say "its not racist raicst, its just ..." we can say that these ideas are bad and should be discarded and move on. ahh but you see if you point out that it reads like racist poo poo you are actually the real racist. which is what happened to the podcaster in question
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May 2, 2020 22:51
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Can anyone recommend me a tabletop game with a lot of lore, since we’re on that topic anyway.
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May 2, 2020 22:52
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PawParole posted:orcs can’t be racist because they’re a different species, and race is always pseudoscientific nonsense, whether it’s the aryan race or the “negro” race or the British claims that the Irish were a variety of bog dwelling gorilla. a huge part of colonialist-era scientific racism was classifying people as other species of human, to explain why they were just naturally predisposed to rape and violence, and had to be culled. creating a world in which this is actually true is extremely weird! orcs can be a different species of human, but describing them as "biologically violent" ABSOLUTELY is hinging poo poo on racist poo poo, dude
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May 2, 2020 22:53
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PawParole posted:Can anyone recommend me a tabletop game with a lot of lore, since we’re on that topic anyway. eoris
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May 2, 2020 22:53
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you can make cool fantasy races that aren't racist or one dimensional, like the githyanki/githzerai they are easily two dimensional hence the racial split!
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May 2, 2020 22:54
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PawParole posted:orcs can’t be racist because they’re a different species, and race is always pseudoscientific nonsense, whether it’s the aryan race or the “negro” race or the British claims that the Irish were a variety of bog dwelling gorilla. They are a different species as an exaggerated metaphor. Racists see real world races as being as different from each other as fantasy races are. Fantasy is about making embodiments of deeply felt ideas people have. What part of this are you missing Also orcs and elves aren't even different species than humans, otherwise there wouldn't be half-orcs and half-elves 
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May 2, 2020 22:55
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olives black posted:If Matt's gonna play a game it should be something that a) doesn't require a whole of skill and b) gives him opportunities to riff. Something like Disgaea 
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May 2, 2020 22:57
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Apraxin posted:no, to the contrary Now this is what it looks like when a real community organizer is out in the streets fighting the good fight
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May 2, 2020 22:57
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Serf posted:eoris it has a write up by fatal and friends, which means it’s Bad
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May 2, 2020 22:57
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The Ultimate Doge posted:Saying orcs are racist is correct (they very obviously represent our old impressions of humans from band and chiefdom societies, or sometimes of humans with lower socioeconomic status like soccer hooligans and african americans) but also counter-productive. Fantasy stuff is inherently fascist but it allows the fascism present in every person to be indulged in a harmless way without directing it to political ends. When you start forcing people to confront it and making it an open shameful issue instead of something politely ignored, you get rid of that release valve LIST OF OPPRESSED GROUPS -Indigenous peoples -Soccer hooligans -African Americans
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May 2, 2020 23:00
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PawParole posted:it has a write up by fatal and friends, which means it’s Bad you didn't say it had to be good
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May 2, 2020 23:00
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Gripweed posted:LIST OF OPPRESSED GROUPS Lol, but I didn't say they were oppressed. I just wanted to include soccer hooligans because orks are my favorite orcs and possibly my favorite fantasy race ever
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May 2, 2020 23:01
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PawParole posted:Can anyone recommend me a tabletop game with a lot of lore, since we’re on that topic anyway. the tabletop setting with the best lore is Glorantha by a huge margin but ive never actually tried to play runequest
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May 2, 2020 23:01
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Varinn posted:“the fascism present in every person” lol I was so struck by dude's claim that it's racist to make fun of soccer hooligans I didn't read the rest
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May 2, 2020 23:01
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if you want a not-bad game with lots of lore, there's unity. which i gave up on because it expected me to read 120 pages of setting info before it detailed a single mechanic. and while it tried to do some cool tactical combat poo poo it fell prey to natural language
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May 2, 2020 23:02
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PawParole posted:Can anyone recommend me a tabletop game with a lot of lore, since we’re on that topic anyway. Warhammer 40k
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May 2, 2020 23:03
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Gripweed posted:lol I was so struck by dude's claim that it's racist to make fun of soccer hooligans I didn't read the rest Lol I wasn't claiming that. Orks are probably the least racist version of orcs
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May 2, 2020 23:03
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Sir Tonk posted:i like deftones tho and still see them when they tour, but id argue theyre closer to post rock than numetal i guess 
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May 2, 2020 23:04
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