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I really can't describe how funny I found the holodeck scene. "Look at these beautiful ancient people living in harmony with the planet! We, a big megacorporation, are doing that too! We're just like them!" It's so brazen and unsubtle, but hits so close to home these days. I want to see more Performatively Woke Shinra.
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May 3, 2020 07:56
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Bleck posted:A New Hope still has a climax even though it's part one of three of the story 
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May 3, 2020 08:00
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I addressed the Star Wars comparisons in an earlier post but to follow up on that and also to tie it to the Lost comparison... with Lost the entire premise of the story was built on a mystery and the secret of that mystery being revealed, so I can understand when that reveal was underwhelming it made the continual teasing and drawing out seem like an abusive stance toward the audience. I don't really see anything like that either in 7R as a self-contained story or as a part of a larger whole. I mentioned before how much I like the final line in 7R, and that moment really sums up why I appreciate what they did. Even if they never finish any other parts, it will to me feel like a satisfying whole in itself, precisely because they have the already-finished original story to refer to. By making a re-envisioned work that ends on a note of new freedom, contingency, and radical possibility, it ends up ironically feeling more like a self-contained work than if they had just kept to the script and just ticked off the Act One bullet points of an outline
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May 3, 2020 08:11
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Mulva posted:If the criticism is "This thing isn't popular and nobody likes it" then it's 100% valid to go "It sold literally a billion copies, and then the sequel sold two billion. More people have consumed that media than have homes in the world.", if that's a thing that is true. When the criticism is explicitly the number of bodies in seats consuming the media the number of people that consumed the media is the only thing that matters, because you've stopped making a subjective argument and started making an objective one. We can't objectively tell you that thing is good and you are wrong for not liking thing. We can objectively tell you that a bunch of people bought thing and continued to buy thing after knowing what it was. Thank you, this is what I was getting at. People who liked the game aren't going to, unprompted, go write six page essays on why they liked it. They're just going to go drat that was good let's see if I can beat the bonus bosses. Edit: what I'm getting at is that the whining/wanking I hate this ranting idiots are going to be overrepresented just because they're loud assholes. Agents are GO! fucked around with this message at 08:14 on May 3, 2020 |
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May 3, 2020 08:12
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Beefstew posted:I really can't describe how funny I found the holodeck scene. You can say Exxon. It's cool.
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May 3, 2020 08:14
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only place ive seen overwhelming negativity about the game is two best friends play subreddit. they were furious the game got good reviews and that their favourite content creators loved the game the ultamania book is really interesting. its funny that nomura wanted a toned down ending but the others were “we need a hype boss fight!” Mulva posted:I mean it doesn't stop being true just because you want to pretend you aren't wrong. There has never been any internal consistency to the threat level of anything in these games. And there wasn't even before the ending in this particular one. Barret goes from taking death lasers to the face and feeling nothing to being weary of Shinra's golden gun. That's because that's a plot gun that could kill him, rather than a game-play gun that is barely doing meaningful DoT. not just games, all media
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May 3, 2020 08:18
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Agents are GO! posted:Thank you, this is what I was getting at. People who liked the game aren't going to, unprompted, go write six page essays on why they liked it. They're just going to go drat that was good let's see if I can beat the bonus bosses. Most people aren't going to write essays on what they thought of it one way or the other. Most of the people who liked it will go "yeah that was good", most of the people who didn't will go "eh, didn't care for it" and most of the people who had a mixed reaction will go "well, we'll see how they do going forward". really what I'm getting at here is that I don't think the idea that ending was universally liked outside of a tiny group of people who are just screeching so loudly about it that they drown out everything else is at all true. As far as I can tell opinions regarding the ending are generally mixed. The group of people declaring that it retroactively makes the game 0/10 is small, but groups who say "liked the game overall but was disappointed or confused by or just didn't really like the ending" is quite sizable and those people have perfectly valid opinions and genuine criticism beyond kneejerk nerd rage. cock hero flux fucked around with this message at 08:24 on May 3, 2020 |
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May 3, 2020 08:21
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the majority of my own personal anecdotes that i've seen on twitter and friend groups is that the game owns but the story got real dumb at the end and about half of them are all for it and want to be taken on a wild ride and the others are worried about too big of changes but are exited for the second part.
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May 3, 2020 08:27
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cock hero flux posted:Most people aren't going to write essays on what they thought of it one way or the other. Most of the people who liked it will go "yeah that was good", most of the people who didn't will go "eh, didn't care for it" and most of the people who had a mixed reaction will go "well, we'll see how they do going forward". What are we supposed to do outside of  Edit: it would be awesome if I had the skills to change the angel to Safer Sephiroth.
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May 3, 2020 08:30
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Agents are GO! posted:What are we supposed to do outside of Actually engage with and respect the differing but reasonable opinions of other people instead of declaring superiority or cultivating an aura of detached smugness.
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May 3, 2020 08:35
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cock hero flux posted:Actually engage with and respect the differing but reasonable opinions of other people instead of declaring superiority or cultivating an aura of detached smugness. We can still dunk on the weebs tho right?
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May 3, 2020 08:43
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Beefstew posted:I was absolutely getting Tower vibes from the late game Shinra stuff. The music and sound design were also similar, as well as some of the visual details (falling cubes of concrete during the Valkyrie fight). It's impossible to tell for sure, but between all of that, some of boss designs (Hell House comes to mind), and the metanarrative stuff, I definitely believe Nier Automata was a creative influence for parts of this game. Which is crazy to consider. I mean, Yoko Taro did direct that FFXIV raid and I don’t know who directed it, but I’m pretty sure it was the director who said they were impressed with how confident Yoko Taro was in his ideas and that he was prolific and able to communicate those ideas really easily with the team. I think they also mentioned that they’d like to see what he did with a main line FF game, I’ll try to find the interview that I’m thinking of. But yeah, the colosseum, while it reminded me of Yakuza at the time, definitely has Nier vibes and the meta narrative stuff definitely made me think of Nier, because I was also thinking about how it was the last Square Enix game I loved, and this game is probably the best thing they have/will have made until the next Nier or Yoko Taro game comes out.
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May 3, 2020 08:44
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cock hero flux posted:Actually engage with and respect the differing but reasonable opinions of other people instead of declaring superiority or cultivating an aura of detached smugness. That's some commie-talk right there. Seriously though, what do you want from us?you dont like it? Ok. Somebody comes in here blathering about how reddit hates it or some YouTube knob posted a 2 hour video about how Tetsuya Nomura hosed his mom and retroactively ruined their life and I'm going to mock them.
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May 3, 2020 08:58
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Agents are GO! posted:
Funnily enough, I didn't personally dislike it. I like the concepts they're working with, but I feel like they fumbled the execution a little bit. Made it a bit hamfisted, did too much too fast. They could have done better, but I wouldn't say that I disliked it, and I'm cautiously optimistic about what they're going to do with it going ahead. If you want an example of something I actually disliked about the game, everything that happens in President Shinra's office is kind of lame. Finding him hanging off the edge, the way that Tifa hems and haws about killing Business Hitler, the way he flip-flops back and forth between acting like a pathetic old man and then immediately back to being a confident sociopath, the whole fumbling around for the gun part. And then Sephiroth flying away holding Jenova's body afterwards just immediately made me think of "i have to go now, my home planet needs me". That scene is, for me, a major disappointment. The ending is a new thing that I don't quite know what to make of.
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May 3, 2020 09:07
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dreamweaver is one of the best boss fights in all of video games
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May 3, 2020 09:14
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:dreamweaver is one of the best boss fights in all of video games It's a great fight but that's not where I would have put it
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May 3, 2020 09:19
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I'm not sure why it's weird Shinra regained his confidence in between hanging off of a building and not hanging off of a building
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May 3, 2020 09:19
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cock hero flux posted:Funnily enough, I didn't personally dislike it. I like the concepts they're working with, but I feel like they fumbled the execution a little bit. Made it a bit hamfisted, did too much too fast. They could have done better, but I wouldn't say that I disliked it, and I'm cautiously optimistic about what they're going to do with it going ahead. If you want an example of something I actually disliked about the game, everything that happens in President Shinra's office is kind of lame. Finding him hanging off the edge, the way that Tifa hems and haws about killing Business Hitler, the way he flip-flops back and forth between acting like a pathetic old man and then immediately back to being a confident sociopath, the whole fumbling around for the gun part. And then Sephiroth flying away holding Jenova's body afterwards just immediately made me think of "i have to go now, my home planet needs me". That scene is, for me, a major disappointment. The ending is a new thing that I don't quite know what to make of. President Shinra made perfect sense; Fumbling around like a weak idiot at his desk was to make the party ignore what he's actually doing so they don't realize he's getting a gun out. Acting weak and pitiful kept him from getting Swiss-cheesed by Barret immediately.
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May 3, 2020 09:20
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Agents are GO! posted:That's some commie-talk right there. Okay dude whatever makes you feel good.
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May 3, 2020 09:22
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cock hero flux posted:It's a great fight but that's not where I would have put it Guess it depends on if you've played the original or not, it was purely fanservice (especially the music)
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May 3, 2020 09:26
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turning jenova into a 20+ minute bossfight is like hearing the alameda coliseum recording of freebird for the first time all over again
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May 3, 2020 09:26
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Neddy Seagoon posted:President Shinra made perfect sense; Fumbling around like a weak idiot at his desk was to make the party ignore what he's actually doing so they don't realize he's getting a gun out. Acting weak and pitiful kept him from getting Swiss-cheesed by Barret immediately. So the flip-flop makes the most sense of anything that happens in that scene, yes. I can believe that it was an act, and I can believe that maybe he really is just the kind of person who devolves into immediate cowardice whenever he thinks he's in actual danger. But it does require that the party just, you know, stand there not paying attention to their hostage while he roots around in his desk. For an extended period of time. Right after the game establishes that he's an old man who is no physical threat to anyone. and if he's going to put on an act to lull them into a false sense of security, you'd think he'd have more sense than to cash all that in to pull a handgun on a group of 4 heavily armed people. What's he gonna do after he shoots Barret? What's his actual plan in that moment?
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May 3, 2020 09:27
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cock hero flux posted:So the flip-flop makes the most sense of anything that happens in that scene, yes. I can believe that it was an act, and I can believe that maybe he really is just the kind of person who devolves into immediate cowardice whenever he thinks he's in actual danger. But it does require that the party just, you know, stand there not paying attention to their hostage while he roots around in his desk. For an extended period of time. Right after the game establishes that he's an old man who is no physical threat to anyone. Barret is the only one in the room with him when he's rooting around in his desk, during which time Barret is giving his big grand demands, something we've seen multiple times he'll lose himself in. Barret even looks towards the door at the rest of the party when he's held at gunpoint. As for what his plan was after he shot Barret, presumably he figured he could bribe the others. It's a major factor of Shinra that he believes money is the solution to all of life's problems. Killing Barret is only due to Barret refusing to take a bribe and abandon his convictions, he even directly states that he has no morals or ideals, he's utterly incapable of processing the idea that there are people who's convictions stand above money.
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May 3, 2020 09:31
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cock hero flux posted:Funnily enough, I didn't personally dislike it. I like the concepts they're working with, but I feel like they fumbled the execution a little bit. Made it a bit hamfisted, did too much too fast. They could have done better, but I wouldn't say that I disliked it, and I'm cautiously optimistic about what they're going to do with it going ahead. If you want an example of something I actually disliked about the game, everything that happens in President Shinra's office is kind of lame. Finding him hanging off the edge, the way that Tifa hems and haws about killing Business Hitler, the way he flip-flops back and forth between acting like a pathetic old man and then immediately back to being a confident sociopath, the whole fumbling around for the gun part. And then Sephiroth flying away holding Jenova's body afterwards just immediately made me think of "i have to go now, my home planet needs me". That scene is, for me, a major disappointment. The ending is a new thing that I don't quite know what to make of. The President Shinra thing I can understand because he's a sociopath: he thought he was about to fall to his death and survived, he's probably riding an adrenaline/dopamine high right then. The Sephiroth flying away thing, I honestly think that may be an issue due to the remakes graphics being so much better than the originals, because that's what Sephiroth does a couple of times in the original (on the ship, again after killing Aeris) but it seems much more jarring when it's not Lego people. Finally, I wanted to address something you didn't mention but other people have brought up, Barret's characterization during this scene, and how they felt it was out of character for him to care more about what people thought of Avalanche and about hurting Shinra than saving the planet. It is not out of character for him, on fact it's crucial to his character arc. Barret has sublimated all of his self-loathing, sadness, and pain about what happened to Corel into his fight against Shinra. He does care about the planet, but that's not really why he fights. He admits this, explicitly, when everyone is sitting around the campfire in Cosmo Canyon. I think a lot of people forgot that cutscene. I'm fairly sure there's at least one or two scenes later when he mentions it too, but that's the big one. Edit: if anything is worded poorly her I'm sorry, I was having to fulfill my primary function of making cat toys move for my cat while writing. 
Agents are GO! fucked around with this message at 09:37 on May 3, 2020 |
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May 3, 2020 09:34
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One of the most famous scenes in the original is Sephiroth doing a flying front flip before fastballing a materia at cloud then supermanning away I do agree with the hemming and hawing about whether to kill Pres Shinra being kinda pointless CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 09:42 on May 3, 2020 |
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May 3, 2020 09:39
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:One of the most famous scenes in the original is Sephiroth doing a flying front flip before fastballing a materia at cloud before supermanning away Was it the Libido Plus materia?
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May 3, 2020 09:40
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:One of the most famous scenes in the original is Sephiroth doing a flying front flip before fastballing a materia at cloud before supermanning away I wouldn't say that that scene is particularly famous but it does happen and it's super dumb in the original, too. Sephiroth just phasing through walls and flying around sometimes is mostly a lot less dumb-looking in the original because of the simplistic graphics leaving more to the imagination. The better graphics contribute to it looking a bit awkward, at least to me. But that one was dumb as hell even in PS1 graphics. Normally when he does his flying around poo poo in the original he melts through walls and disappears pretty quickly but in that one he really does just go "alright, later", bean cloud with a rock and then sedately hover off down the hallway.
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May 3, 2020 09:44
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iirc it was ultima wasn't it? it was dormant until you leveled it edit: it was destruct materia. that was such a weird scene
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May 3, 2020 09:45
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:iirc it was ultima wasn't it? it was dormant until you leveled it it was destruct and is useless you have to buy ultima off of some kid in north corel
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May 3, 2020 09:47
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cock hero flux posted:it was destruct and is useless You get Ultima for free if you succeed at stopping the train. If you botch it and it crashes into North Corel you have to pay 50K for it.
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May 3, 2020 09:49
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And North Corel pretty much looks the same regardless of how you do on that mission. Lost opportunity there.
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May 3, 2020 09:53
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I thought the scene between Barrett and Shinra was weird, not because it was out of character or whatever, but because demanding that Shinra announces that Avalanche isn’t affiliated with Wutai is a much more reasonable and realistic demand than telling him to shut off the mako reactors or whatever, as it’s clear that killing Shinra’s president doesn’t mean Shinra, the mega corporation with a billion middle managers who all believe that mako is the way to the promised land or whatever, will immediately shut down operations because a guy from Avalanche threatened him and killed him or whatever and if he’s going to kowtow to an ecoterrorist group at gunpoint, he’d only do what Barrett insisted while he’s still thinking that he’s going to blow his head off and then at least if he made a public announcement about Avalanche not being affiliated with Wutai, even if he immediately went on TV again and said ‘actually I made a mistake, Wutai definitely are funding these so called environmentalists’, then the public would at least be a little more wary of whatever Shinra is doing or saying. When he tells Barrett that he’s being selfish and asks why he doesn’t demand more I was assuming he was trying to gently caress with him to make Barrett second guess himself, I mean I know now that that was actually the case and he hadn’t thought about it apparently, but I just thought that President Shinra knew that using Wutai as anti Avalanche propaganda and not knowing about Barrett’s past and his motivations plus the situation he was in at that moment potentially going wrong and ending up getting himself killed meant that he was just trying to survive.
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May 3, 2020 10:40
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If Advent Children remains canon then it's actually Rufus that is funding Avalanche right?
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May 3, 2020 10:44
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there are enough hints and clues and references that it's fair to assume that AC, BC and CC all remain canon so in answer to your question, yeah probably the interesting thing about them expanding Avalanche to different cells is that, as a result of that benefactor, you're likely going to come into conflict with another Avalanche cell or cells in subsequent entries
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May 3, 2020 10:53
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I recall that somewhere in the remake you find out Barret's cell was rejected for being too extreme so some tension within the greater Avalanche group would be interesting to see.
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May 3, 2020 11:03
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I just had a thought. What if Shinra falsely claiming Avalanche is backed by Wutai leads to Yuffie joining the party in part 2 because she bought it and actually thinks the party is allied with Wutai. Then she realizes that it was fake and they don't really give a poo poo about Wutai, at which point Yuffie starts planning to yoink all their materia.
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May 3, 2020 11:04
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It's been pretty heavily implied throughout that Aerith either has a guess of what's coming, or knows full-well how this will end for her. Her dialogue throughout the game's rife with subtext leaning that way. "Lovers used to give each other these when they reunite" is one of the first things she says yeah
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May 3, 2020 11:11
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I really like the, "I miss it. The steel sky." line too. Apparently in Japanese it was just, "I hate the sky", which seems like a way, way less poignant and meaningful line, honestly. And FF7R is clearly widely hated by audiences, as it has a terrible user score of of 8/10 on metacritic based on 4037 reviews. I guess it is somewhat divisive, though, as it has 3,051 positive reviews, 698 negative reviews, and only 288 mixed reviews. People either loved it or frothing-at-the-mouth hated it, with very little in between.
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May 3, 2020 11:16
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Schwartzcough posted:I really like the, "I miss it. The steel sky." line too. Apparently in Japanese it was just, "I hate the sky", which seems like a way, way less poignant and meaningful line, honestly. That's every user score on Metacritic.
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May 3, 2020 11:17
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Turns out you can parry as a frog. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itfteLo7XJA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UivJ42MkjHY I hope in the future games they add a frog limit break.
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May 3, 2020 11:20
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