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Karen is a black lives matter thing and don’t let people gaslight your into not using it. It comes from white women who call the cops on black people having the nerve to use parks or go into the building that they live in. There are exactly 8 lesbian TERFs, the rest are all cishet tradwife mumsnetters, and straight white men, who are without exception, absolute perverts getting off on everything they type and every single like and reply the trad wives give them. They have “wives and daughters” don’t ya know. These people hate all LGBT people and to a person will call themselves “Christians”. They are going after the T because it’s unacceptable to hate “the gays” in 2020 but by golly they are doing their best to make that acceptable again as well. They find the idea of sharing bathrooms and changing rooms with those 8 lesbian Terfs absolutely abhorrent. gently caress Karens and gently caress Terfs. Edit: Legs 11, gently caress Terfs.
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May 3, 2020 10:04
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goddamnedtwisto posted:How many radical feminists do you think there are in the UK? TERF doesn't just mean transphobe, it's a very specific group with a very specific hatred - the bloke down the pub making "chicks with dicks" cracks, the Christian fundamentalist talking about what God intends, and the Twitter bluetick egged on by Mumsnet aren't TERFs *even if they use arguments coming from TERFs*, they're just common-or-garden bigots. It just so happens, in the UK at least, that radical feminists of a certain age happen to have a fairly strong media presence, so TERFism seems like a far stronger strand of transphobia than elsewhere. For TERF also read FART as well
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May 3, 2020 10:06
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There's a lot of garden variety transphobes around saying and doing horrible things but I tend to associate terf with being organised/it being a main part of their ideology and them doing, well, terfy poo poo like running a dozen twitter accounts to stalk glinners comments for a fight, faking up some petitions or brigading mumsnet
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May 3, 2020 10:07
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I would include people who aren't "radical feminists" but should ostensibly be on the side of trans people, for example let's say an old white male union activist, who has always seemed fine with supporting feminism or gay marriage or immigrants, but then this one weird trick has broken his brain and now he can't stfu about trans people, and he links TERF articles to backup his horrible opinions. That seems inherently different to me than when an ordinary right wing bigot does it. But yeah TERF is a dumb term anyway, and I too am dumb, so I'm probably double dumbing the word. Let's use FART instead.
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May 3, 2020 10:07
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99% of the transphobes who say “TERF is a slur” are actually objecting to being called feminists.
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May 3, 2020 10:08
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DesperateDan posted:There's a lot of garden variety transphobes around saying and doing horrible things but I tend to associate terf with being organised/it being a main part of their ideology and them doing, well, terfy poo poo like running a dozen twitter accounts to stalk glinners comments for a fight, faking up some petitions or brigading mumsnet Don’t forget kitting your teenagers out in the most expensive tracksuits you can find in sports direct, taking them to protest the national theatre and trying to claim you are a working class poor because you shop at sports direct. The 12 or so of them who actually turn up to events are lunatics. The best one was when Posie Parker convinced the usual suspects to get on a private plane to America and told them that serious people wanted to listen to their concerns about “women and girls”, and the taxi dumped them all out at a far right Christian pro life rally.
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May 3, 2020 10:15
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https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1256607252875788288
Jippa fucked around with this message at 10:17 on May 3, 2020 |
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May 3, 2020 10:15
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goddamnedtwisto posted:How many radical feminists do you think there are in the UK? TERF doesn't just mean transphobe, it's a very specific group with a very specific hatred - the bloke down the pub making "chicks with dicks" cracks, the Christian fundamentalist talking about what God intends, and the Twitter bluetick egged on by Mumsnet aren't TERFs *even if they use arguments coming from TERFs*, they're just common-or-garden bigots. It just so happens, in the UK at least, that radical feminists of a certain age happen to have a fairly strong media presence, so TERFism seems like a far stronger strand of transphobia than elsewhere. but “TERF" is far more widely used, especially on Twitter etc, to just mean simply “transphobe” than the more specific definition you describe people don’t care about the RF part. TERF is just shorter & easier to say than transphobe it’s the historical root of the term sure, but not really what anyone using it means most of the time
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May 3, 2020 10:18
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Then sell it to us cheaper you feckless sack of piss. Also TERF is good because it does no effectively mean "transphobe" and also helps because it shows the way in which language can evolve. I am sick of people saying "errr, literally doesn't mean anything any more" when it has meant "figuratively" since the loving 1800's. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 10:22 on May 3, 2020 |
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May 3, 2020 10:20
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Sorry if someone’s already posted this - not hugely impressed with the both-sidesism response Labour’s putting out re the report:quote:
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May 3, 2020 10:24
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crispix posted:Is there anything other than parental goodwill to stop people naming their children something truly disgusting like Smegwina or Arsezekiel The other side of this is that parents could also give their kids awesome names, such as Stormageddon They're all cowards though so they don't 
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May 3, 2020 10:30
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RE: kid names chat, my mate's Mum worked for the council, and apparently they were able to veto names. Someone tried to name their son Predictor (after the pregnancy test they took) and weren't allowed.
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May 3, 2020 10:58
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Josef bugman posted:I am sick of people saying "errr, literally doesn't mean anything any more" when it has meant "figuratively" since the loving 1800's. I agree and am not a prescriptivist at all, but tongue-in-cheekly I think we need a replacement word, for situations like this "That rollercoaster was so scary I wet myself!" "Haha yeah me too" "No I mean I literally wet myself" "Haha yeah me too" Should be good for a few years before it comes to mean figuratively as well 
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May 3, 2020 11:04
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"TERF" is an interesting one because while a relatively small proportion of internet transphobes are actual radical feminists whose hatred of trans people is intertwined with their radical feminism, there are a whole lot more who are influenced by/inspired by/just plain parroting radical feminist justifications for their transphobia. Like, Wings Over Scotland is not in any way a radical feminist but he's still using the same arguments as to why being disgusted by trans people is actually a way of caring about women. I dunno, maybe it would be more accurate to call them like, terflikes or post-terfs or terfs-pop or terfvanias or whatever.
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May 3, 2020 11:17
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That's what Feminism-Appropriating Reactionary Transphobes was made for.
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May 3, 2020 11:20
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it's best to mentally recontextualise the 'RF' in 'TERF' as 'reactionary fascist'
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May 3, 2020 11:21
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Josef bugman posted:I am sick of people saying "errr, literally doesn't mean anything any more" when it has meant "figuratively" since the loving 1800's. If I use something hyperbolically or sarcastically, does that make the meaning of the word change? Is there a difference between "I literally (= figuratively) wet myself" and "[hyperbolic]I literally wet myself[/hyperbolic]". What does it mean to say a word means something?
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May 3, 2020 11:24
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Bobstar posted:I agree and am not a prescriptivist at all, but tongue-in-cheekly I think we need a replacement word, for situations like this actually works.
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May 3, 2020 11:28
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https://twitter.com/altmann_tim/status/1256690738294857731?s=09
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May 3, 2020 11:36
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Strom Cuzewon posted:If I use something hyperbolically or sarcastically, does that make the meaning of the word change? Is there a difference between "I literally (= figuratively) wet myself" and "[hyperbolic]I literally wet myself[/hyperbolic]". What does it mean to say a word means something? Generally what a word means is arrived at by consensus. Language being a tool of communication though makes it rather inexact in doing that.
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May 3, 2020 11:40
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Bardeh posted:RE: kid names chat, my mate's Mum worked for the council, and apparently they were able to veto names. Someone tried to name their son Predictor (after the pregnancy test they took) and weren't allowed. Good idea though if you ask me.
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May 3, 2020 11:46
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Ms Adequate posted:I named my night elf arched in WoW Jocasta Jocasta is basically saying 'I hope my daughter never has kids'.
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May 3, 2020 11:50
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Flipswitch posted:Doesn't France use a system where children's names have to be approved to stop parents having the final say? It's one of those things I've heard but never validated or confirmed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naming_law
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May 3, 2020 11:55
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Pablo Bluth posted:Lots of countries have restrictions of one form or another. So basically this council person had absolutely no right to refuse to register that name, then
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May 3, 2020 11:57
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Back in the 1990s, when there was a sharp divergence between the Anti-Racist Alliance (Livingstone, Abbott, Wadsworth, etc) and the Anti-Nazi League (much more established brand, big endorsements from Labour titans like Benn, Hain, &c, big mess of powerful trade unions like NUM, NUT &c, many celebrities, etc., but its revival org was heavily SWP-dominated), the ideological element explicitly turned on the question of women/minorities vs class. Specifically: what happens if the minority leadership actively opts for a non-confrontational, moderate strategy (e.g., the ARA opposed the big pitched battles in British Afro-Caribbean neighbourhoods that the ANL wanted; the ARA wanted legislative campaigns on workplace and police harassment built on heavy consultation with panels of minority groups, not an apocalyptic showdown to abolish capitalism that would necessarily be filled with 95% White British society at large; both camps wrote bitter editorials and public attacks on the other) Within Labour itself this was mirrored with the argument over black sections or all-women shortlists... it was (correctly, mind you) foreseen by the CLPD types that this would be a machine for the Labour right to install moderate votes that would be demographically dominated by middle-class Society of Black Lawyers types Although there were actively culturally contrarian factions on the left (the RCP notably, whose house journal Living Marxism would eventually become Spiked) they were never as large or as influential on the left even back in the 1990s Fast forward two decades and this old dispute is moribund today, I think. The barriers to entry are now much lower. Instead of powerful permanent committees and institutions that the left must hope to march through, everyone and their own little dog can quickly create an organization that could rapidly scale. There's no need to worry about the bourgeois tendencies of existing crop of connected black middle-class activists; one can easily find and organise some reliably leftie folk with the correct facets of identity to fill OMOV slates. If they turn out to be unreliable - or if new headlines suddenly render their previous positions inconvenient - they can be quickly discarded and new loyalists embraced as the true voice of the left camp of any banner (BAME/disabled/women's/LGBT/northerners/whatever). The ARA worried intensely about its ability to appeal to nonwhite communities. The ANL worried intensely about its ability to appeal to predominantly white working class communities. Both concerns seem rather passé... The upside to this anarchic new media landscape is that it's very hard to coercively physically intimidate people in that contemptible 1980s way. On the downside, though, there's so little money available that it's relatively easy for some institutional heft to quietly push things around by simply choosing whose voices to emphasize: too many voices chasing the same few institutional funds and institutional access to the right mailing lists and Whatsapp groups and Telegram channels. (e.g., to sketch a topical example... LGBT Labour has remained obstinately resistant to Labour factionalism for a long time. Its approach in 2007, 2010, 2015, 2016, and 2019 was to demand pledges from all candidates and endorse none. Likewise, many trans activists and TERF activists alternately have been enraged by Corbyn's vacillations between one camp and the other - Dawn Butler, Andrew Murray, etc - but nought came of it... for reasons I can't discern, the society remained exceptionally resistant to the wider changes in the party. Then on Feb 13 this year, the same day LGBT Labour produces its pledge card for the 2019 leadership race, a "grassroots organisation" founded by a Momentum slate Labour LYL officer (LCTR) whips out a separate pledge slightly to its left that is instantly signed by the Momentum-endorsed candidate and endorsed by Momentum-aligned Labour MPs. This neatly illustrates the speed with which new organisations can erupt from the aether, apparently "spontaneously", and come to displace the affiliated-socialist-society role upon which so much sweat and tears were once spent.) ronya fucked around with this message at 13:51 on May 3, 2020 |
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May 3, 2020 12:01
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There should absolutely be a mechanism to protect kids from their parents' lovely naming attempts, but it needs to be decentralised because I can easily imagine a british naming law saying no to welsh or gaidhlig names.
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May 3, 2020 12:01
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Bobstar posted:I agree and am not a prescriptivist at all, but tongue-in-cheekly I think we need a replacement word, for situations like this I think people do this now colloquially just with short phrases like "no joke" "no lie" "forreal" or whatever your local equivalent is. I don't see much ambiguity in practice
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May 3, 2020 12:02
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Dell_Zincht posted:So basically this council person had absolutely no right to refuse to register that name, then Who knows where we'd be if nominative determinism was in play with Predictor. Maybe they could have been the god child to save us all. People should just be called Baby until they're 10 then they can pick their own name.
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May 3, 2020 12:04
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English law doesn't really have a formal "legal name" concept. Your name is what you want it to be. The whole deed poll thing is about having a record to satisfy the hunger of the bureaucratic machine rather than being the thing that makes the change real.
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May 3, 2020 12:05
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Dell_Zincht posted:So basically this council person had absolutely no right to refuse to register that name, then Bear in mind this was a story told to me by my mate when we were around 18, so he could well have been passing on an urban myth (although he wasn't really the type) and yeah, reading that wiki article it looks like you can name your child whatever the gently caress you want in the UK as long as it's pronounceable, not profanity, and doesn't have fake titles in. I guess I'll have to think of a new name for my next kid, Duke/Duchess Cuntington III isn't gonna be allowed.
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May 3, 2020 12:06
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Pablo Bluth posted:English law doesn't really have a formal "legal name" concept. Your name is what you want it to be. The whole deed poll thing is about having a record to satisfy the hunger of the bureaucratic machine rather than being the thing that makes the change real. its illegal to use a legal name
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May 3, 2020 12:08
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Jose posted:its illegal to use a legal name
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May 3, 2020 12:10
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Coohoolin posted:There should absolutely be a mechanism to protect kids from their parents' lovely naming attempts, but it needs to be decentralised because I can easily imagine a british naming law saying no to welsh or gaidhlig names. how would being decentralised help though? you have to register births at the local council. so if the petty tyrant there objects to your chosen name it doesn’t help that there’s a postcode lottery does it?
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May 3, 2020 12:10
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Failed Imagineer posted:I think people do this now colloquially just with short phrases like "no joke" "no lie" "forreal" or whatever your local equivalent is. I don't see much ambiguity in practice Yeah that works, as I say my "objection" is functional, and as Bugman said above, humans will always tend to create a functional way to communicate. Far worse than the forwards-pedant, who is at worst tiresome, is the reverse-pedant - like the guy who read the piece specifically about vulvas by a woman who was an expert on vulvas, and decided he needed to say "actually it's called a vagina", and wouldn't back down.
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May 3, 2020 12:15
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Look I didn't name my daughter Stella after the alcoholic beverage I named her after the famous fashion designer okay?? Now come on Carlsberg, we're going to Maccy D's for tea
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May 3, 2020 12:15
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Bobstar posted:Yeah that works, as I say my "objection" is functional, and as Bugman said above, humans will always tend to create a functional way to communicate. This is why I've adopted John Roderick's thing of pronouncing "pedant" as "pendant", and seeing how many fish I can reel in.
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May 3, 2020 12:17
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Failed Imagineer posted:I think people do this now colloquially just with short phrases like "no joke" "no lie" "forreal" or whatever your local equivalent is. I don't see much ambiguity in practice I think the ambiguity just comes from different speech communities having opposite understandings. If I hear 'literally' I'm likely to assume a statement of fact unless it's impossible, while 'not joking', ngl etc don't (for me) rule out hyperbole. Context usually clears things up easily though, I don't think it's a pressing problem.
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May 3, 2020 12:19
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Cerv posted:I think the human rights act already offers better protection for minorities status really. proscribing existing welsh names wouldn’t fly. put them on the blockchain. Have you met my son 1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE?
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May 3, 2020 12:20
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If a friend tells you a humourous story about child naming it is always, 100% of the time, an urban myth. There is something about child-name urban myths which makes people determined to represent them as something they personally saw absolute proof of, despite them always being absolute bollocks.
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May 3, 2020 12:37
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ronya posted:This neatly illustrates 
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May 3, 2020 12:39
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