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Milo and POTUS posted:So what exactly is the story here state flags: do they got toes in em? channel 4 is here to break it down, tonite at 10
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May 3, 2020 03:54
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 10:48 |
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Today's episode: Missourah. As mentioned before, the US bought Louisiana in 1803, and the southern part eventually became Louisiana in 1812. Since Louisiana Territory was now the same name as a state, it was renamed Missouri Territory, and was very large, probably the largest single organized territory the country ever had. In 1819, Arkansas was shaved off the south, and then we get the Missouri Compromise, where, to keep slave and free states equal, Maine (in 1820) and Missouri (in 1821) were admitted to the union. Missouri might look a little weird, though:  In 1837, the federal government bought a parcel west of Missouri and east of the Missouri River and granted it to Missouri. They bought this from the Pottawattamie and the Sac and Fox nations, though I'm not sure we could call it anything resembling an equitable trade.  So, Missouri. Done? Well, the borders were, according to their constitution, the northern border of the state was: Constitution of Missouri posted:... thence, from the point aforesaid, north along the said meridian line, to the intersection of the parallel of latitude which passes through the rapids of the River Des Moines, making said line correspond with the Indian boundary-line; thence east from the point of intersection last aforesaid, along the said parallel of latitude, to the middle of the channel of the main fork of the said River Des Moines; thence down along the middle of the main channel of the said River Des Moines to the mouth of the same, where it empties into the Mississippi River... Simple: Find where the rapids of the River Des Moines are, and draw a line west - there's your northern border. Well, we run into a problem I've noticed a lot since I moved to Iowa: We have no respect for consistent naming. Por ejemplo: Des Moines is not in Des Moines County. Iowa City is not in Iowa County. And neither Cedar Rapids nor Cedar Falls are in Cedar County. And, apparently, the "Des Moines Rapids" are not on the Des Moines River, but rather refer to a section of the Mississippi River near the mouth of the Des Moines River? I don't know, and neither did they. Missouri thought they could kick around Iowa Territory and decided to aim high, disputed the survey and claimed a strip north of their border. I will admit to not being an expert on this dispute, but what I do know is that, in 1839, a Missouri sheriff entered the disputed area to collect taxes; when the people refused to pay, he cut down some trees to retrieve honey instead of money, thus this conflict is called the Honey War.  The Supreme Court resolved the issue in 1849 to run along the surveyed border. Bonus round: Wisconsin. Wisconsin Territory in 1848 included Wisconsin but also modern northeast Minnesota, and when Wisconsin was admitted, the remainder became unorganized territory. However, enough people lived there that they created their own government and elected a delegate to the U.S. House who was actually seated. This is the only time this worked; the closest any other unofficial government came to any recognition was Jefferson Territory, which claimed a region around what became Colorado and strongly influenced the formation of Colorado Territory and its government. I feel like I'm running out of topics, as anything further west is probably better handled just by browsing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_evolution_of_the_United_States. If an idea pops up (maybe Lost Dakota?) I'll write it up. My next projects are evolution of the Soviet Union, the European Union, and continuing experimenting on things like the British Empire and North America.
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May 3, 2020 05:14
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Soviet Commubot posted:I also really love the effortposts on state border history. Fun fact. In the Netherlands there's a city everyone calls Den Bosch but the official name is `s-Hertogenbosch, and if that looks like an unpronounceable mess to you, it kinda is. To explain this I need to dissect the long name. The 's is a shortened form of an archaic word that used to mean "of the" "hertog" is duke, and "bosch" is forest. So the full name means "The forest of the duke". I've heard several Belgians pronounce it "Saint Hertogenbosch". That could either mean "Saint Dukeforest" or "the forest of Saint Duke". Why do they think this is correct at all? Yes from a distance the 's looks similar to the St. prefix but who is "Saint Duke"?
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May 3, 2020 08:20
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I have loved that name since I first heard it. A name that begins "apostrophe lower case 's' hyphen capital H" is just so wonderfully stupid.
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May 3, 2020 08:42
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Carbon dioxide posted:but who is "Saint Duke"?  Hail to the King, Baby
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May 3, 2020 08:43
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Unreal_One posted:I have loved that name since I first heard it. A name that begins "apostrophe lower case 's' hyphen capital H" is just so wonderfully stupid. There are in fact, more names like that. 's-Gravenmoer (The bog land of the count), 's-Heerenberg (the mountain of the lord, where the 'mountain' is prob a hill 10m above sea level), 's-Heer Arendskerke (the church of lord Arend) and so on. The best known of these is probably the one that's also most likely "fake news". Let's talk Den Haag. Den Bosch is a short version of the original name 's-Hertogenbosch. All the others I named may or may not have short versions but the names I used are the official and original ones. The Hague, or Den Haag in Dutch, is also known as 's-Gravenhage. (The fenced off area / hunting grounds of the count). It turns out, that differently from all those other examples, our oldest known sources (~13th century) all just list the place name as "Den Haag". As far as I can tell, around the 17th century all the fancy nobles who made The Hague their home decided the city name should sound fancier than the boring The Hague, so they came up with `s-Gravenhage, named after the Count of Holland who lived there. Arouund 1990, the city council of The Hague decided to go back to the historical roots and remove all references to the longer name `s-Gravenhage where possible. This also brought things more in line with the existing English name The Hague and the French Name La Haye. Road signs and also the train schedule write 's-Hertogenbosch, but not 's-Gravenhage. They will always use Den Haag. You can still find the name `s-Gravenhage in certain official documentation where it can't easily be changed but it is never used in public anymore. People use 's-Hertogenbosch or Den Bosch interchangeably without issue, but the only people who still call Den Haag " 's-Gravenhage " are old-fashioned people who either didn't get the memo or who are trying to hold on to some ancient sense of nobility.
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May 3, 2020 09:04
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The spelling “Thames” is seventeenth century affectation. People tried to make it conform to the Greek root it never had.
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May 3, 2020 09:10
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Platystemon posted:The spelling “Thames” is seventeenth century affectation. Same with "island"
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May 3, 2020 09:15
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You rang? 
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May 3, 2020 10:10
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Platystemon posted:The spelling “Thames” is seventeenth century affectation. You mean the River Isis??
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May 3, 2020 14:19
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Unreal_One posted:I have loved that name since I first heard it. A name that begins "apostrophe lower case 's' hyphen capital H" is just so wonderfully stupid. It's a general Dutch spelling convention. For example, 's middags (at noon) is an abbreviation of the archaic des middags. If you start your sentence with this, you have to write 's Middags, capitalizing the noun only. How many native speakers apply this rule correctly is a different matter entirely.
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May 3, 2020 14:46
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Why did standard Dutch not go down the route of contracting een to 'n (which also follows the weird capitalization rule)?
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May 3, 2020 14:52
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You mean consistently and exclusively? That's an interesting question. I would say it's because the 's words are fixed expressions or traditional place names, holdovers from the linguistic past, probably because they're so common in the case of something like 's middags. Des as such is never used anymore, except occasionally in an ironical sense. At some point Dutch decided to drastically simplify its grammatical case system, though not as radically as English. By contrast, een is the indefinite article (a or an in English), it is very commonly used, and not in every context it would sound appropriate to abbreviate it to 'n.
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May 3, 2020 15:10
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Guavanaut posted:Why did standard Dutch not go down the route of contracting een to 'n (which also follows the weird capitalization rule)? I'm not sure but keep in mind that contracting "een" to "n" isn't something all Dutch varieties do. West-Flemish and some East-Flemish dialects contract "een" to "e" instead, like English. What would incidentally make more sense is to consistently contract "het" to "t".
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May 3, 2020 16:12
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In German the indefinite articles (ein/eine) are mostly shortened to 'n or 'ne in colloquial speech, although the dialectal shortening to a or e is still pretty widespread in the south. Are there similar contractions going on in e.g. French?
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May 3, 2020 16:29
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Spoken French is 99% contractions and abbreviations compared to the standard written form. I think they might actually have gone a little too far. If you see a written word made up of 36 letters and 9 syllables, chances are that everyone pronounces it as something like 'uh'
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May 3, 2020 16:32
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In French, the contraction of definite articles "le" and "la" to just " l' " is part of regular grammar (not colloquial) if the next word begins with a vowel sound. Contracting when the next word begins with a consonant can happen in speech, depending on dialect and accent but wouldn't be transcribed to text normally; at least not in official names. (If you're writing dialogue in a novel, obviously, you can get away with writing like " 'l est sorti d'la f'ret pour aller à l'plage " or whatever.)
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May 3, 2020 16:38
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Cat Mattress posted:In French, the contraction of definite articles "le" and "la" to just " l' " is part of regular grammar (not colloquial) if the next word begins with a vowel sound. Contracting when the next word begins with a consonant can happen in speech, depending on dialect and accent but wouldn't be transcribed to text normally; at least not in official names. (If you're writing dialogue in a novel, obviously, you can get away with writing like " 'l est sorti d'la f'ret pour aller à l'plage " or whatever.) Oh so you've met my Acadien friends
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May 3, 2020 17:44
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SimonSays posted:Oh so you've met my Acadien friends Is there enough english in there for it to be an Acadian sentence? Wouldn't it be l'beach or some poo poo?
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May 3, 2020 23:04
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Count Roland posted:Is there enough english in there for it to be an Acadian sentence? Wouldn't it be l'beach or some poo poo? Not a map but one of my favorite things on the Internet. 
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May 4, 2020 00:14
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ouate de phoque
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May 4, 2020 00:34
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Soviet Commubot posted:Not a map but one of my favorite things on the Internet. 
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May 4, 2020 01:02
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Soviet Commubot posted:Not a map but one of my favorite things on the Internet. It's a beautiful classic
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May 4, 2020 01:13
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May 4, 2020 04:56
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May 4, 2020 05:22
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May 4, 2020 07:37
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Soviet Commubot posted:Not a map but one of my favorite things on the Internet. It's amazing how much of this I can parse. What's the actual translation? Is chum chum?
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May 4, 2020 07:39
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Milo and POTUS posted:It's amazing how much of this I can parse. What's the actual translation? Is chum chum? The couch is 20 years old but it was really luxurious when new The couch is really good to crash/sleep in (i did it a few time during the past last years) and it's really confortable to drink alpine beer in with your friends and pass things around (if you understand what i mean <translator note: i don't so it's probably girls related> The couch's deep is 20 piace (translator note: old as gently caress pre revolution units because America) or a beer bottle pack (Alpine Lager) Color: Yer Burgundy <translator note: Bourgogne) Sorry Ink email (translator note: paper letter? wtf) only, i don't have a phone anymore (i forgot to pay the bill too often)
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May 4, 2020 09:01
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Soviet Commubot posted:Not a map but one of my favorite things on the Internet. Classic Troyan Horse strategy. This couch is filled with frenchs. As soon you put the couch inside your home, the frenchs will get out and with a quick labelling machine will rename every object in your house with a french name.
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May 4, 2020 09:20
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Toplowtech posted:The couch is about the size of a Tipper Sideway Fridge (depending on the fridge model) Toplowtech posted:pass things around (if you understand what i mean <translator note: i don't so it's probably girls related> Toplowtech posted:Sorry Ink email (translator note: paper letter? wtf)
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May 4, 2020 09:27
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Why is South America red??
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May 4, 2020 10:45
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Also why is a colony of Danmark treated as a integral part of Denmark? This is like making a map crediting Jamaica for The Beatles or Vietnam for the Eiffel Tower.
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May 4, 2020 10:49
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Toplowtech posted:(if you understand what i mean <translator note: i don't so it's probably girls related> I took it to mean drugs. puff, puff, pass.
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May 4, 2020 10:52
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America divided between the Vikings and the Conquistadores.
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May 4, 2020 11:06
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May 4, 2020 12:53
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FreudianSlippers posted:This is like making a map crediting Jamaica for The Beatles  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J9NpHKrKMw
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May 4, 2020 13:03
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Jamaica can be credited for a lot of great British music, no problem.
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May 4, 2020 13:40
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Bold assumption that the right half is the rear end half of the country.
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May 4, 2020 14:15
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Golbez posted:Bold assumption that the right half is the rear end half of the country. I think it is derived from the position of the wang. Ed: don't know what Maine represents here though. A bit of poop escaping perhaps.
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May 4, 2020 14:17
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Florida and Texas/Maine are legs.
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May 4, 2020 14:18
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