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PerniciousKnid posted:What point are you making here? The establishment was never going to allow a fair election without putting their thumbs on the scale to quash leftism, therefore the left should support the establishment? If you fools keep pretending it was all backroom deals that cost Bernie votes, you are never going to be in the right place to win those voters. Assuming everyone is on your side because of support for your ideas in places like this is just absurd. The lessons of the W and the Obama eras should have taught you this. We are not the majority. Our ideas aren't easy to receive for those who grew up in times such as Reaganomics, where the whole lie of 'government can't do anything right' is believed by voters on both sides. It has caused increasingly incompetent representatives to be chosen: people don't expect any better. If you start with the conclusion that all politicians are scum, you come to accept those who are 'honest' about what they'll deliver: the same old poo poo. American capitalism is an abject failure for everyone except those on the top. America also fought, and won, an ideological battle against the very public failures of what our schools taught us about communism and socialism. You know what they say: history is written by the victors. Our battles are hard because the ideals others believe in were ingrained either by education or what our society determined as a cause for our success: such as the myth that capitalism is so pure that the real system is more of a meritocracy. Maybe I'm saying poo poo everyone already knows but too many people are acting like it doesn't matter. Had there been a real upswell of Bernie support, the news would have absolutely tried to capitalize on it. Maybe not to the point of crowning him the front runner, but things such as making it a sport where Bernie is the big 'underdog' and it's some kind of fight for the 'real soul' of the Democratic party. That really didn't happen. It really sucks, because at the debates, I was convinced that Bernie had all the right answers, and the other contenders mostly had a fundamental misunderstanding of everything in play. But most primary voters disagreed. Maybe you don't think those voters really exist, but I know they do. Parts of my family have been lifelong Democratic voters, but they still have a lot of trouble coming around. Maybe they think their situation is lovely, but also think that the solution of an incompetent state running things would be worse. Because that's a big issue: they expect government to be incompetent and some have willfully elected those who have every incentive to prove them right. The fight is also against long entrenched and usually reinforced ideals. It can't be won by attributing and outsized amount of blame on the media or the DNC.
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May 4, 2020 04:07
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Doctor Butts posted:Had there been a real upswell of Bernie support, the news would have absolutely tried to capitalize on it. Maybe not to the point of crowning him the front runner, but things such as making it a sport where Bernie is the big 'underdog' and it's some kind of fight for the 'real soul' of the Democratic party. Counterpoint, Nevada and all the efforts to downplay it.  I don't know, that's kind of why I assume there's been a scattered general depression about this among people who aren't embracing the meltdown (to tiring for me). Like, yeah, we don't have a good avenue to push for those ideals. Other than maybe a 20-40 year grind at the local level that we really don't have time for, and that's not really an option for a large swath of America. So it's nice to rage against the media putting its thumb on the scale. This thread isn't actually a planning committee for the Democrats.
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May 4, 2020 04:13
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Killer robot posted:More to the point, someone did have an issue with the term "concentration camps." PJ did. She spent a whole lot of time arguing with people who were explicitly calling them that, because they didn't go the extra step to "death camps." Well it took a little bit of time but 'everyone' came around to the conclusion that they were absolutely concentration camps. But it is accurate to say a number of posters were wanting to label then death camps instead, and much was typed about it on both sides. Until I think the conversation started getting people probated.
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May 4, 2020 04:14
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:Counterpoint, Nevada and all the efforts to downplay it. Well, for better or worse, I've spent a lot of time here. I've gone gone through too much stupid optimism through the years. I mean, EVERYONE knows W and his his administration are garbage, right? Yet got for another term. Surely Obama being elected means we'll get our promised 1,000 years of liberal darkness, right? The brighter spots are here, now. They aren't close to being a president (yet?) - but some great folks have been elected and I hope they are as competent as they seem to be and I hope that their constituents see the value I believe they have and keep electing them. I really don't know a faster way of getting those ideals to be accepted into the mainstream. That seems to be the only way it has 'worked' so far.
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May 4, 2020 04:25
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Killer robot posted:Yeah. I was upset and disappointed that so much of Bernie's 2016 supporters jumped ship when he wasn't the only person in a race against Hillary, when support for Biden didn't evaporate once the primary got moving, and when so much of the vote for pretty much every other candidate who dropped out went more Biden than Bernie, but it wasn't even a close contest. Unless the DNC literally is the Illuminati, party favoritism just doesn't explain it all. DNC or no DNC there was no path to victory for Bernie that did not involve him running a better campaign, including but not limited to figuring out which voters he was weak with and targeting them. I think the actual primary schedule itself was unintentionally the biggest challenge to any candidate who wasn't Biden. It's been known for a long time that African-Americans are one of the single biggest primary demographics, and Biden had massive support among them and Democratic voters in general after eight years as Obama's VP. But the way the primary calendar was laid out, the first two states were lily-white, and while Nevada was somewhat more diverse, African-American voters still only made up 11% of the primary demographic. So what ended up happening was that instead of candidates spending the ~eight months before the first primary making themselves known amongst African-American communities and political leaders, practically everyone except Biden was focused on trying to make a big splash in Iowa, while doing relatively little to chip away at Biden's core of support. That's not to say that people didn't try to make themselves known - plenty of them did, including Bernie and Warren. But the focus was always on Iowa, and it allowed Biden to coast though clobberings in the first three states before arriving at South Carolina and Super Tuesday, where the script was suddenly and irrevocably flipped. In retrospect, while Sanders made mistakes, I think it was always going to be a tough primary to win. In addition to relying on additional turnout that didn't materialize in the numbers he needed, a lot of existing Democratic voters and politicians either had lingering resentment from 2016, were turned off by his calls for a political revolution, or simply considered him unelectable due to his policies - which was ultimately the biggest killer, since electability was IIRC the number one concern for Democratic voters. So while he could have won, a winning strategy would have likely focused more heavily on converting existing Democrats into his voters, especially African-Americans, and convincing them he wasn't that radical and wouldn't push away swing voters (which, of course, would also be the opposite of what his own base wants to hear, so he was really in a jam no matter what he did). But with regard to whether the media deliberately pushed Biden... I don't think that's true. There was a narrative that Biden was the most electable, sure, but that was pushed strongly by... well, the bulk of opinion polling that showed him having the strongest numbers against Trump. And while that turned into a tautology (he's the most electable because the polls show him doing the best against Trump because people think he's the most electable), it was a narrative that every other Democrat struggled against and failed to overcome, not just Sanders. And it's not like there wasn't plenty of reporting against Biden early in the campaign, either - but he started strong and stayed strong, likely in part because the opposition was so divided, and it was difficult for everyone other than Sanders and Biden to make their names heard. To finish off this rambling post, in retrospect I think this primary was Biden's to lose, as he had huge advantages in the primary schedule, name recognition, and a large, divided field against him. All he had to do was make it past the first few states where he lacked supporters and the other candidates were more well-known - for once he made it through, he could leverage his substantial name recognition and general popularity within the Democratic base to overcome the remaining challengers in states where nobody had yet begun campaigning. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 04:59 on May 4, 2020 |
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May 4, 2020 04:56
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Dapper_Swindler posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1257129479455080448 This ad is terrible, and I mean that from an efficacy standpoint. The editing, the imagery, the graphics, the narration, just awful.
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May 4, 2020 05:00
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Otteration posted:Additional important Late Night derp tax coming in via the teletypy news thing: Is anyone else surprised the horse survived that?
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May 4, 2020 05:08
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haveblue posted:Is anyone else surprised the horse survived that? I'm surprised the Jets haven't signed him
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May 4, 2020 05:10
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At this point in my life, with all I know about horses, I'm surprised there are any horses alive at all.
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May 4, 2020 05:12
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skeleton warrior posted:I'm surprised the Jets haven't signed him 
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May 4, 2020 05:17
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Dick Trauma posted:Instead of attacking one another we should focus on supporting the real victim of this crisis: It’s true if you think about it! Lincoln was shot in the head but we’re torturing poor Trump with.....facts and poo poo. Very unfair!
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May 4, 2020 05:19
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haveblue posted:Is anyone else surprised the horse survived that? Young mammals are basically made out of rubber.
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May 4, 2020 05:20
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I wish I could be amazed that our president was literally like 'yeah, I'm just going to keep moving the death goalposts out, what of it?'. But nothing really shocks me with them anymore. They are determined to win re-election on a pile of corpses.
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May 4, 2020 05:24
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haveblue posted:Is anyone else surprised the horse survived that? No, why?
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May 4, 2020 05:34
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Illuminti posted:No, why? People have heard stories of horses being fragile. Like some horses are known to die at the mere thought of ants.
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May 4, 2020 05:35
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FlamingLiberal posted:I wish I could be amazed that our president was literally like 'yeah, I'm just going to keep moving the death goalposts out, what of it?'. But nothing really shocks me with them anymore. They are determined to win re-election on a pile of corpses. Not to attribute any strategic thinking to Donnie, but he's already decided he saved 2 million lives and he's going to keep repeating that line. 60k dead, 80k, 100k, yeah that's bad but think about the 2.2 million who would have died if we did absolutely nothing at all!
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May 4, 2020 05:37
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Mulva posted:At this point in my life, with all I know about horses, I'm surprised there are any horses alive at all. Do explain, I'm curious.
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May 4, 2020 05:38
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Dick Trauma posted:Instead of attacking one another we should focus on supporting the real victim of this crisis: if only...
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May 4, 2020 05:43
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Fritz the Horse posted:Not to attribute any strategic thinking to Donnie, but he's already decided he saved 2 million lives and he's going to keep repeating that line. 60k dead, 80k, 100k, yeah that's bad but think about the 2.2 million who would have died if we did absolutely nothing at all! They know their only semi-legitimate path to reelection is via a good economy. And if 2 million people die to make the economy go up, then by god, DJT will do it.
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May 4, 2020 05:46
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Doctor Butts posted:
look i dont really object to your general point but this is just delusional bernie's platform was literally opposed to the interests of those that own the media on the night of bernie's greatest victory in nevada, chris matthews could not stop comparing bernie's campaign to nazis the media breathlessly reported on snake emojis when a LITERAL NAZI FLAG WAS DISPLAYED AT BERNIE'S RALLY
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May 4, 2020 05:47
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WOWEE ZOWEE posted:Do explain, I'm curious. From our own SA https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3599972&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=10#post426646421
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May 4, 2020 05:48
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Mooseontheloose posted:They know their only semi-legitimate path to reelection is via a good economy. And if 2 million people die to make the economy go up, then by god, DJT will do it. If someone said to him, ‘I can make the virus disappear and undo all of damage, but a million people have to die’ he would absolutely take that deal
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May 4, 2020 05:50
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Mulva posted:From our own SA Can confirm this is only slight exaggeration. Horses tend to be really easily startled which is why, for example, you start talking to a horse when you're maybe a hundred yards away approaching the pen. The last thing you want to do is spook them with a sudden sound and then they run through a fence or something. Horses are also really smart fuckers. Saddles have one or two belts around the horse's torso to keep the saddle in place. I was taught to tighten the belts, then tighten them again a few minutes later. Why? If a horse doesn't feel like working, they can suck in a bunch of air and inflate their belly before you tighten the belt. Then they exhale and the saddle is loose. If you don't know to watch out for this, you can try to mount the saddle but it's loose and you and the saddle both rotate to the ground. It's hilarious. This is my horse, Fritz, from earlier this week:  FlamingLiberal posted:That’s all this is I mean, most GOP politicians would take that deal, they just wouldn't be so open about it. Trump can't even pretend to care about human life. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 06:16 on May 4, 2020 |
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May 4, 2020 06:14
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So if the clown circus from the election thread is anything to go by, it looks like we're in for another four years with the Trump brigade despite everything going against him. It's going to be tough getting through till 2024, not gonna lie; but even then things that should have gotten the green light will either be delayed till 2030 or crushed outright. You want any type of national gun legislation? Gone, dead in the water. Something along the lines of drug reform, decriminalization of marijuana and pardoning light drug offender sentences? 2030 at best, or at worst flat killed with the Supreme Court stacked into a hard right favor. Things like student debt loan forgiveness from interest rates that are actually illegal in other first-world countries? That's funny, you with the jokes! It's the little things that also help twist the knife too. You remember when congress was talking about expunging Trump's impeachment from his record for no other reason than a hearty gently caress You towards democrats? That's definitely going to happen at this rate with another four years in power, can't wait to see that happen. I dunno man, it just sucks; hits a lot harder if you're pretty much trapped in one of those states gerrymandered to hell and back into deep red territory with very little you can do about it since the Republican pushback is so drat strong.
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May 4, 2020 06:41
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Parrotine posted:So if the clown circus from the election thread is anything to go by, It's not
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May 4, 2020 06:44
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Parrotine posted:So if the clown circus from the election thread is anything to go by, it looks like we're in for another four years with the Trump brigade despite everything going against him. Eh, I don’t speak for everyone in that thread, but I think there’s a greater-than-50% chance that Biden beats Trump at this point. I think the larger issue is that it’s only MARGINALLY better than even right now, and Biden and the Dems seem dead-set on throwing it to the GOP. I can’t think of a single decision they’ve made over the past few months that wasn’t flat-out terrible from an electoral perspective.
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May 4, 2020 06:53
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Acebuckeye13 posted:To finish off this rambling post, in retrospect I think this primary was Biden's to lose, as he had huge advantages in the primary schedule, name recognition, and a large, divided field against him. The last three Democratic vicepresidents have won the nomination. What is clear from Biden's victory is that you don't need to be remotely competent in any way as long as you have that.
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May 4, 2020 07:02
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If the NFL does play, definitely won't be in CA (at least with an audience). Also, this won't impact the Chargers attendance numbers. https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1257181414883237888?s=19
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May 4, 2020 07:03
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Parrotine posted:So if the clown circus from the election thread is anything to go by, it looks like we're in for another four years with the Trump brigade despite everything going against him. I haven't been to the election thread and no force on earth could make me go there, but if its even 1/10th as bad as the constant election derails in this thread, take their prognostications with all of the salt of the seven seas. Half of them are probably the crew that have been consistently declaring Trump unbeatable for the entirety of the last four years, and the other half are probably the crew that desperately want Trump to win because Biden got the nom and they need their seething hatred of centrists to be vindicated by his defeat at fascism's hands.
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May 4, 2020 07:45
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Parrotine posted:So if the clown circus from the election thread is anything to go by, it looks like we're in for another four years with the Trump brigade despite everything going against him. Well depending at least there is a decent chance that while Trump very well may win re-election, he will not have a GOP led House and Senate. So while things may not get done on the left, at least Trump would likely be curtailed and not enabled which would be interesting to see how he would react. Although from that list I think out of anything happening with a Democrat led House and Senate and Trump would be gun legislation. He has seemed open to it in the past and with him not having to worry about re-election along with the GOP not wanting to go along with it I can see him making that deal. Four more years of Trump will be very bad in a lot of ways since coming out of COVID-19, there needs to be a massive government investment ala the New Deal to get people working and the economy running again. With Trump that isn't going to happen or at least there will be no leadership at the Federal level to do it. And while things like Healthcare reform/M4A, student debt relief/C4A, etc will not be touched at all. It is sadly better than the potential Biden alternative where we get a badly compromised, half assed solution that helps no one and sets those issues back 20 years as they will be considered "settled". Short term it sucks, long term it gives hope to a real progressive winning in 2024 and real change coming. Although I have been saying that since 2000 and it hasn't happened. It likely never will.
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May 4, 2020 08:15
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Doctor Butts posted:
Not sure if it's more or less doom and gloom than this, but polling numbers actually disagree here. Nearly all of Bernie's major policies have majority support, our ideas are well received. The real problem, and this was a big issue in 2016 too, is that the biggest concern among primary voters was picking someone they thought could win, and both conventional wisdom and a lot of media coverage says that Bernie can't do that and Biden can. I'm honestly afraid at this point that "get people to understand that our ideas are, in fact, popular and and can in fact be done" is going to be harder than making them popular in the first place. --edit Well maybe not our ideas, depending on how far left you are. The majority of Americans aren't actually socialist or anarcho-communist or anything like that. But they do support things like single payer healthcare and a wealth tax. Bernie's policies are popular. Captain France fucked around with this message at 08:36 on May 4, 2020 |
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May 4, 2020 08:32
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Djarum posted:Short term it sucks, long term it gives hope to a real progressive winning in 2024 and real change coming. Although I have been saying that since 2000 and it hasn't happened. It likely never will. Look on the bright side, if it gets bad enough you get to watch it fall! Then you can experience the birth of a new nation! More importantly you get to experience a world without Americans dragging it down! Alternatively the CCP buys up all the trappings of Americana after the fall and runs it as a puppet state. Chuds remain unaware. It's not even outlandish anymore!
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May 4, 2020 08:50
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Captain France posted:Not sure if it's more or less doom and gloom than this, but polling numbers actually disagree here. Exactly how you phrase those proposals makes a huge difference too. Everyone tries to handwave that. They're popular in the abstract, but once you start talking about actual proposals it tends to drop. "Single payer" is a prime example. When you just use the vague term people react positively, but when you ask more questions a whole lot of them think "I still keep my same plan from work, right? RIGHT?!" At the least, people need convincing. None of this is to say that the American people can't be sold on left-wing policies, but it will be work. Even if the GOP, DNC, Illuminati, and whoever else decided to just sit this one out, it's still an uphill climb actually turning popular vague handwaves that everyone imagines their own way into popular concrete proposals which can be questioned and doubted in concrete ways. Convincing yourself that everyone agrees already and you don't have to do that work is setting yourself up for failure.
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May 4, 2020 09:00
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CMD598 posted:Look on the bright side, if it gets bad enough you get to watch it fall! Then you can experience the birth of a new nation! More importantly you get to experience a world without Americans dragging it down! Well I am trying to plan on leaving the country before the election although at this point that is increasingly looking like it will be impossible. I do increasingly feel like we are living in a failed state. This summer is likely going to be something else. We live in truly historic times. Now if that is the end of the American experiment and/or the end of capitalism who knows. The fact that we are starting to see the beginnings of massive labor strikes which will likely continue into rent/payment strikes as well is a good sign. By the time anyone in the Federal Government comes up with a plan it will likely be too late, since they won’t raise a finger until they can’t get their groceries, food or Amazon orders anymore. By that point you will have too many angry people coming for their heads.
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May 4, 2020 09:04
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Djarum posted:Well depending at least there is a decent chance that while Trump very well may win re-election, he will not have a GOP led House and Senate. If trump wins but the dems take the senate and keep the house, I think there's a pretty good chance that he is impeached and removed.
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May 4, 2020 09:08
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Earthorn posted:If trump wins but the dems take the senate and keep the house, I think there's a pretty good chance that he is impeached and removed. You need 67 Senators to remove.
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May 4, 2020 09:11
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Yeah no way he survives a democrat controlled congress. Even if they don't outright remove him his sheer frustration at being continually blocked on every step would cause an aneurysm.
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May 4, 2020 09:11
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Earthorn posted:If trump wins but the dems take the senate and keep the house, I think there's a pretty good chance that he is impeached and removed. They still need 2/3 of the Senate to vote for removal, so I really doubt it, but in the interest of discussion, I wonder what kind of scenario would have Trump winning re-election but either Dems taking enough seats or getting enough Republican to cross the line for removal.
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May 4, 2020 09:13
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Democrats taking control of the Senate has to be the least likely election outcome this year. I think Biden will beat Trump (though I won't bet on it), but the Senate map is rough
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May 4, 2020 09:16
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Killer robot posted:"I still keep my same plan from work, right? RIGHT?!" At the least, people need convincing. You tell them that they still see the doctors they like, but they stop charging them for anything. No co-pay. No deductible. Nothing. Free at the point of service. Forever. For anything. And the doctors they like that they can't see are all in-network. Every doctor is in-network.
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May 4, 2020 09:24
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