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Xombie posted:Nothing about renewable energy is incompatible with libertarianism. It's literally a private industry. Calling out the oil industry is strangling renewable energy to increase profits is 100% against the concepts of libertarianism and free markets. Again, either you don't understand what libertarianism is, or you are ascribing it to a man who does not deserve it.
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May 5, 2020 16:11
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Xombie posted:He's a 9/11 truther. He had an actual TV show called Conspiracy Theory With Jesse Ventura. One of the episodes was about how climate change is a hoax. He hosted the show but that doesn't give him ownership over the ideas anymore than Rod Serling supports airplane wing monsters scaring William Shatner. But it's irrelevant anyway since Ventura isn't running.
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May 5, 2020 16:12
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VitalSigns posted:9/11 trutherism still killed less people than Saddam trutherism so you're not doing yourself any favors here You moved the goalposts so far here that I believe you've actually entered a shadow realm. quote:This what Democrats default to when they can't defend anything their candidate says or believes, they just appeal to "reasonableness". The Democrat may be a mass murdering rapist criminal monster, but see everyone else is so "unreasonable". Look here's an "unreasonable" belief someone else has. It doesn't matter that the Democrat also believes demonstrably false and infinitely more harmful things, because those things were also printed in the New York Times and are therefore inherently "reasonable" to believe, no matter the actual truth value or harmfulness of those beliefs. I didn't defend Joe Biden. You guys keep asking me to and I keep declining to, and then you ascribe some defense of him to me. quote:Jesse Ventura supports a Green New Deal so he's still less of a denier than Joe Biden who is also a climate denier by virtue of not supporting doing anything about the crisis. Yet people keep telling me that I shouldn't vote for Biden over the issue of student debt forgiveness because it's something he opposed in the past.
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May 5, 2020 16:13
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If I'm not mistaken, Jesse Ventura is not seeking the Green Party nomination and will in all likelihood not be on the ballot for the general election.
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May 5, 2020 16:13
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Calling out the oil industry is strangling renewable energy to increase profits is 100% against the concepts of libertarianism and free markets. Calling them out isn't actually doing anything about it at the government level. Again, the guy literally considered running for president as the Libertarian party candidate 4 years ago and then endorsed Gary Johnson.
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May 5, 2020 16:15
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Who are you going to vote for, the man who looks like a dying mannequin, or the Goddamn Sexual Tyrannosaurus?
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May 5, 2020 16:16
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FWIW thanks to the government working overtime to burn away any sort of popular left sentiment from the American electorate since 1917, in some places we've got libertarians and libertarians. Some -- usually older -- libertarians have beliefs that stem from a fundamental distrust of the government based on the clear and obvious injustices everyone can easily recognize but does their best to ignore. Because there wasn't (and mostly still isn't) any kind of left education outside of high academia, regular rear end people who correctly hate our evil, corrupt, racist, sexist, imperial government, found themselves collected in general "libertarianism". Contrast this with the type of libertarian that is basically an ancap, or the ones that use libertarian to signal their distrust of the government because it's not racist enough. I'm not writing this to excuse libertarians or apologize for the term or the people that call themselves libertarians, but I am saying that in my organizing I've found plenty of the former type of libertarian, who is extremely open to left ideas if you are able to frame issues that concern the working class around social and economic injustice. They are certainly more open to left policy and philosophy than any hashtag resister I've ever met.
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May 5, 2020 16:16
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Xombie posted:You moved the goalposts so far here that I believe you've actually entered a shadow realm. No this is consistent with my original post, Joe Biden believes demonstrably stupider and more harmful conspiracy theories than Ventura 9/11 trutherism is pretty harmless, because (1) unlike Biden's pet conspiracy theories the conclusion there is we shouldn't invade other countries, and also (2) Bush did 9/11 so it's not even wrong
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May 5, 2020 16:16
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Xombie posted:Calling them out isn't actually doing anything about it at the government level. OK, please stop dodging the question and explain why a non-profit, government controlled healthcare system makes him a libertarian.
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May 5, 2020 16:16
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VitalSigns posted:No this is consistent with my original post, Joe Biden believes demonstrably stupider and more harmful conspiracy theories than Ventura You literally asked for "wackier". quote:9/11 trutherism is pretty harmless, because (1) unlike Biden's pet conspiracy theories the conclusion there is we shouldn't invade other countries, and also (2) Bush did 9/11 so it's not even wrong I would like everyone who thinks "conspiracy theories are harmless" to have a discussion with the victims of Sandy Hook or take a look at lockdown protests.
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May 5, 2020 16:20
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Xombie posted:I would like everyone who thinks "conspiracy theories are harmless" to have a discussion with the victims of Sandy Hook or take a look at lockdown protests. This is profoundly disingenuous and you know that's not what anyone was trying to claim.
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May 5, 2020 16:23
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I've always thought of Jesse Ventura as going along the same mental road as I went down with libertarianism. You start out with, "the government sucks and should do as little as possible," and it feels right in many ways: anti-war, opposition to the war on drugs and the militarization of the police, unflinching support for the entirety of the Bill of Rights, et cetera. I came to define the libertarian ideology as always asking a single question: "can we solve this problem with less government instead of more?" Even really strident libertarians always say there's a need for police, courts, et cetera, so that still seems to fit. That allows you to incorporate thoughts like, "Our health care system is a disaster and private health insurance companies are part of the problem, let's solve this with government-run health care for everyone." Eventually, you run into, "well, capitalism is refusing to solve the problem of climate change and we seem to be running out of time here -- I guess the government should do something about that, too." It totally makes sense to me that Jesse Ventura would end up supporting the Green Party.
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May 5, 2020 16:24
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Xombie posted:I would like everyone who thinks "conspiracy theories are harmless" to have a discussion with the victims of Sandy Hook or take a look at lockdown protests. Conspiracy theories themselves are harmless, but they're indicative of a dangerous, sometimes deadly, societal feeling of powerlessness. It's a clutch-at-straws attempt to resist those empowered to do wrong, to insert agency into a system in which you have none. Ie: The elites may have been able to fake 9/11 or assassinate JFK but they can't fool me and I hold them accountable. Often minorities are scapegoated into the position of "elites," because the disempowered are ideal receptacles for propaganda.
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May 5, 2020 16:33
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Xombie posted:He's a 9/11 truther. How is that bad? But back to 2020 news, it's going great for the Dems! https://twitter.com/ibrahimpols/status/1257667539590696961?s=20
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May 5, 2020 16:34
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Considering what we saw with 8 years of Bush, it’s way easier to explain 9/11 as a result of their horrible incompetence than some deliberate conspiracy
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May 5, 2020 16:35
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Xombie posted:You literally asked for "wackier". Xombie posted:I would like everyone who thinks "conspiracy theories are harmless" to have a discussion with the victims of Sandy Hook or take a look at lockdown protests. look at those goalposts go, unable to find anything harmful about Ventura, you pivot to some other conspiracy theory he doesn't believe to try to equate him with Alex Jones but yes I agree conspiracy theories are harmful and therefore I cannot in good conscience vote for Saddam truther Joseph R Biden
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May 5, 2020 16:38
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Xombie posted:He's a 9/11 truther. He had an actual TV show called Conspiracy Theory With Jesse Ventura. One of the episodes was about how climate change is a hoax. He's still better than Biden, who managed to kill hundreds of thousands of Iraquis with his conspiracy theory that Sadam Hussein was planning an attack on US soil.
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May 5, 2020 16:42
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all of the critiques about Ventura that run in conflict with all the good stuff he says just highlights the fact that he is what Biden is purported by so many to be - a potentially good candidate if only we keep him honest, and it really drives home why that argument is so unconvincing when applied to Biden. When has Biden done anything like force light rail through because it's good and he promised it, or broke down middle eastern invasions from a materialist lens, or told The View lady warhawks that they'd be outraged about waterboarding if it was their WASP neighbors being subjected to it and not brown Muslims across the world he strikes me as a Rogan Libertarian. Despises the people in government not because government is inherently evil, but that it's being used for evil and those people love evil and are made rich by it and it's not worth your time to support or vote for them. This represents a base of voters at least as large as either party can boast as a loyal base, btw. If what he and others like him have to say wasn't potentially dangerous and was actually totally loony, he wouldn't keep getting blacklisted from places
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May 5, 2020 16:47
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no stupid hare-brained theory anybody has ever believed has done more harm and killed more people than trickle down and the notion that the rich and well-graduated are inherently superior, two things absolutely embodied by both of our parties but ESPECIALLY the Obama and Clinton cohort anti-vaxxers kill and immiserate what, hundreds a year? Those are chump numbers, laughable. Neoliberal austerity philosophy kills more than that in every single city in the country and it doesn't even have to go out of its way to do it
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May 5, 2020 16:49
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lol at the goon who is weirdly committed to proving Jesse is a libertarian. Jesse Ventura is a Joe Rogan independent. He's an ordinary dude who knows that the government and corporations exist to gently caress him over but he's never touched a book on theory in his life. Trying to divine his true political nature like he's an RPG character is just going to lead you in circles. What actually matters is that his healthy distrust in the two major parties and their corporate backers has increasingly led him to leftist conclusions in recent years. But as always liberals will dig through his history to find things to chase him away with.
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May 5, 2020 17:01
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VitalSigns posted:Saddam trutherism is way wackier, like it involved magical stealth weapons vans with Romulan cloaking devices to explain why UN inspections weren't good enough and we had to invade now now now Yeah, he's not like Alex Jones, he just *checks notes* created a TV show promoting ideas about Reptillian overlords and how the government used a death ray to destroy the twin towers on 9/11.
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May 5, 2020 17:03
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is pepsi ok posted:lol at the goon who is weirdly committed to proving Jesse is a libertarian. Jesse Ventura is a Joe Rogan independent. He's an ordinary dude who knows that the government and corporations exist to gently caress him over but he's never touched a book on theory in his life. Trying to divine his true political nature like he's an RPG character is just going to lead you in circles. What actually matters is that his healthy distrust in the two major parties and their corporate backers has increasingly led him to leftist conclusions in recent years. But as always liberals will dig through his history to find things to chase him away with. "but he ran as a libertariaaaaaaaaannnnnn!!!!" jesse ventura is a better person than almost any dem, and him and joe biden (pathological liar, warmonger, corporate prostitute) morally aren't in the same universe
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May 5, 2020 17:07
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Xombie posted:Yeah, he's not like Alex Jones, he just *checks notes* created a TV show promoting ideas about Reptillian overlords and how the government used a death ray to destroy the twin towers on 9/11. Uhh, his actual claims are the the Bush administration ignored warnings of the danger that Osama Bin Laden posed. But I guess strawmanning is kind of the backbone to liberal rhetoric, so I shouldn't be surprised.
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May 5, 2020 17:07
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Xombie posted:Yeah, he's not like Alex Jones, he just *checks notes* created a TV show promoting ideas about Reptillian overlords and how the government used a death ray to destroy the twin towers on 9/11. Why do you keep ignoring all the people Biden's conspiracy theories have killed? Do they not count because they're mostly foreigners or what?
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May 5, 2020 17:08
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Xombie posted:Yeah, he's not like Alex Jones, he just *checks notes* created a TV show promoting ideas about Reptillian overlords and how the government used a death ray to destroy the twin towers on 9/11. you accused him of being a Sandy Hook truther, so you're backpedaling away from that, then? got a link to the show where he says that he believes Reptiles run the US and Bush used a death ray on 9/11
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May 5, 2020 17:09
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Uhh, his actual claims are the the Bush administration ignored warnings of the danger that Osama Bin Laden posed. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2431632/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2493520/
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May 5, 2020 17:09
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Xombie posted:Yeah, he's not like Alex Jones, he just *checks notes* created a TV show promoting ideas about Reptillian overlords and how the government used a death ray to destroy the twin towers on 9/11. so, just to be clear, you believe that the thing he actually said, which was 'the Bush administration ignored intel about the attack and the general risk of years of provocation blowing up in our faces, and regardless of if he did it out of ignorance or out of active malice to create a bloody shirt to wave it's an indictment of his leadership that should have made any attempted war effort that came after moot', is on the same level as 'the reptiles shot the twin towers with a space laser'?
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May 5, 2020 17:12
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xombie probably got real angry when people said the terrorists don't 'hate our freedom' and got confused, guys, be nice. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 5, 2020 17:13
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Trabisnikof posted:Why do you keep ignoring all the people Biden's conspiracy theories have killed? Do they not count because they're mostly foreigners or what? Biden is also running for President, unlike Ventura. It’s unbearable to me, the way liberals will clutch pearls over anti-vaxers and 9/11 truthers and then commit to performing incredible mental gymnastics to accept voting for the worst candidate in any of our lifetimes. Like, okay, 9/11 trutherism is a bridge too far, but you’ll “hold your nose” and vote for a senile rapist just because he’s marginally less evil than the other senile rapist? God drat this loving awful country.
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May 5, 2020 17:13
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VitalSigns posted:you accused him of being a Sandy Hook truther, so you're backpedaling away from that, then? I didn't. quote:got a link to the show where he says that he believes Reptiles run the US and Bush used a death ray on 9/11 See the imdb links in my above. Or are we moving towards "promoting ideas on your TV show isn't technically endorsing them" now?
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May 5, 2020 17:13
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lol this is like freaking out that Johnathan Frakes is a deranged lunatic because he hosted a show that told ghost stories
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May 5, 2020 17:13
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Xombie posted:I didn't. do you think the dude who hosts unsolved mysteries did the murders
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May 5, 2020 17:14
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sexpig by night posted:xombie probably got real angry when people said the terrorists don't 'hate our freedom' and got confused, guys, be nice. Boy this guy that you imagined sure seems like a dumbass, sick burn dude (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 5, 2020 17:14
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Xombie posted:I didn't. Yes you did, I asked you how Ventura's beliefs were more harmful than Biden's and you cited Sandy Hook trutherism, so you were either claiming he is a Sandy Hook truther or you were just being intentional disingenuous
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May 5, 2020 17:14
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Xombie posted:See the imdb links in my above. Or are we moving towards "promoting ideas on your TV show isn't technically endorsing them" now? Explain how this is worse than raping women or voting for laws that further entrench systemic racism or fighting for a stupid war that killed millions of people.
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May 5, 2020 17:15
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vote_no posted:It totally makes sense to me that Jesse Ventura would end up supporting the Green Party. http://www.ora.tv/offthegrid/2015/2/16/jesse-ventura-owns-body-0_73ocwuuqmaac "It'll be a cold day when this body submits to mandatory vaccination" He also (used to?) love Roger Stone. https://www.ora.tv/offthegrid/2015/6/24/roger-stoner-0_5a10ogslafld https://www.ora.tv/offthegrid/2014/10/14/roger-stone-goes-offthegrid-0_6svd9hud361u Oh hey remember when he supported Cliven Bundy? https://www.ora.tv/offthegrid/2014/4/18/the-rancher-vs-the-federal-government-cliven-bundy-goes-offthegrid-0_446yyq5mr7d8 Yes much of this is from 2015-16 old (because Ventura stays the radar until every election cycle when he teases his presidential run to sell his poo poo) but he's got a lot to disavow before I could consider supporting him. The guy has espoused every conspiracy theory in the book including the usual Bilderberg/Rothschilds/globalists/international bankers talk that sets off alarm bells in my head. If the choice is between him and Biden and Trump I choose none of the above. Youth Decay fucked around with this message at 17:17 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 17:15
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Xombie posted:I didn't. Trabisnikof posted:Why do you keep ignoring all the people Biden's conspiracy theories have killed? Do they not count because they're mostly foreigners or what?
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May 5, 2020 17:16
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Gripweed posted:How is that bad? Biden's smile reveals evil. Also NeverTrump Republicans will never vote Democrat, ever.
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May 5, 2020 17:16
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VitalSigns posted:lol The idea that conspiracy nuts are as harmless as ghost hunters when they're literally linked to violent extremism is quite a thing.
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May 5, 2020 17:17
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Xombie posted:The idea that conspiracy nuts are as harmless as ghost hunters when they're literally linked to violent extremism is quite a thing. As opposed to US Presidential Candidate Joseph R. Biden, who isn’t linked to violence of any kind. But please, let’s keep talking about the scary conspiracy theorist who isn’t even running for office.
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May 5, 2020 17:18
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