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COVID-19 posted:Obama’s legacy was Donald Trump. Why would leftists not fight against that? Trump entire schtick is being the anti-Obama, his only consistent ideology has been undoing everything Obama did. Trump wasn't the result of people being discontent because Obama wasn't a leftist. Trump is the reaction to Obama, he's the backlash caused by a) presidenting while black, and b) pushing the most milquetoast of compromise "progressive" reforms. Trump is the death rattle of far right olds freaking out because the country has changed and they don't have power anymore which happened to coincide with apathy over a lovely dem candidate and 8 years of having adults run the government lulling a lot of people into not taking Trump and his poo poo seriously. Every election since then has given us reason to think 2016 was an outlier. Horseshoe theory is bullshit, it's not about how far you go down one ideology or another. Being a lovely authoritarian knows no specific ideology however, and the absolutely mythology that's getting pushed surrounding these elections, and the way people are adopting Trump bullshit whole-cloth just goes to show there's a core group within the left who are only distinguishable from the CHUDs by which groups they want the cruelty directed at.
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May 5, 2020 20:03
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I believe you'll find that NOT voting for Trump is a vote for Biden! So, you're welcome!
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May 5, 2020 20:03
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COVID-19 posted:Weren’t you claiming that a vote for anyone but Biden is a vote for Trump? Do we really have to do this again? The thing where I point out that I wasn't doing that? If you'd like to do it again just go back and read the last time we did it instead.
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May 5, 2020 20:03
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How are u posted:It's just simple math, man. You're right. In November if I: Vote for Biden that's Biden +1 Vote for Trump that's Trump +1 Vote for Howie that's Howie +1 Leave it blank that's 0 for everyone! Crazy, none of these votes went to or "against" any other candidates. e: Oh wait that's right. Liberals vote based on outcomes. Sorry, forgot it was important to pick a winner, even if the winner is a terrible rapist ghoul of a person. Dang. e2: the entire context of this discussion also ignores the six months in which the Democratic Party has ample opportunity to do the right thing, because everyone in charge would rather just take the easy street and punch their vote in under a rapist and hope he wins instead. Solanumai fucked around with this message at 20:08 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 20:04
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How are u posted:It's just simple math, man. not voting for Trump is a vote for Biden, simple math I won't vote for Trump so there you go
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May 5, 2020 20:04
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Jarmak posted:apathy over a lovely dem candidate I have bad news
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May 5, 2020 20:05
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How are u posted:If you live in a swing state and if Biden is ultimately the candidate then yes it is. Outside of that not so much. I still wouldn't vote for him, because I won't vote for a conservative rapist.
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May 5, 2020 20:06
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Epic High Five posted:lol is this a Markov bot trained on West Wing scripts quote:So, what's your point here? I'm a fascist? Fascism is coming either way? Fascism is coming unless we vote for noted white supremacist war criminal Joe Biden? Your ham-handed prose is very bad and you should just say what you mean. Ham hands aside, there were a whole bunch of you earlier and in the last thread, for weeks, arguing that Trump is preferable because there was a "10% chance" to stop the coming apocalypse or some equivalent nonsense through communist uprising under him than the zero percent you'd get under Biden (since everyone would be too comfortable dying, apparently). If that were true, then obviously voting any way other than Trump is voting to kill the world and doom the last chance for humanity. ftr I've never watched West Wing quote:*soothe gently caress quote:You seem weirdly hellbent on painting trans people as fascists. Is this supposed to convince us the Democrats give a poo poo about us? I do not think the posters in this thread correspond to trans people in general, nor do I know which of you are or are not trans.
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May 5, 2020 20:06
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Jarmak posted:Trump entire schtick is being the anti-Obama, his only consistent ideology has been undoing everything Obama did. Yeah man it's the coalition of marginalized <40 year olds that's going authoritarian
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May 5, 2020 20:08
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Ytlaya posted:Yeah, this is another good point. Even if the deeply flawed strategy of leveraging those kind of communities to gain Democratic control and achieve a very limited set of progressive goals while directly opposing others somehow made sense, it's inherently impossible in most states (and definitely has no relationship to any sort of federal election). I wish I understood this fantasy, both in the form of How are u’s naive belief in winning state and local elections and the folk politics of leftists calling for direct action and community aid. They’re not solutions to the problems our world faces. They aren’t plans that can be enacted before time runs out. The promise of Bernie was a diverse, national movement of working people who could create change on a scale appropriate for the problems of today. The fact that that didn’t come to pass is heartbreaking, but it’s even harder to swallow being patronized at over and over again for refusing to support the people who strangled that movement in its cradle. As for what’s next, I have no idea. It sure isn’t going to come from voting for Joe Biden though.
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May 5, 2020 20:08
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RBA Starblade posted:I do not think the posters in this thread correspond to trans people in general, nor do I know which of you are or are not trans. Pomp and I have both posted about being trans, directly to you, even. Quit being evasively disingenuous. Better yet, stop shitposting at us and others as being fascists.
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May 5, 2020 20:09
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Pomp posted:Yeah man it's the coalition of marginalized <40 year olds that's going authoritarian Bend The Knee quote:Pomp and I have both posted about being trans, directly to you, even. Quit being evasively disingenuous. I was being sincere. I have only seen it come up that you two are, but I don't know why I'd equate all trans people to being fascists from that fact alone, or who else in here is from that.
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May 5, 2020 20:10
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VitalSigns posted:right, that's the point people are making, he obviously is telling people to vote for Biden but doesn't want to admit that so there's this goofy rhetorical sleight of hand "I'm not telling you what to do, but if you don't do X you're a horrible evil person" It's not a rhetorical sleight of hand to make people be honest about the implications of their position. He never said "you're an evil person" either. If acknowledging the basic facts of a political position makes you think holding that position is morally abhorrent then I suggested you reflect on that instead of blaming others for attacking you.
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May 5, 2020 20:10
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RBA Starblade posted:Bend The Knee Oh no not rude posts on the internet
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May 5, 2020 20:12
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e: you've spent the last several pages doing nothing but shitposting rudely on the internet so I guess you'd know! ^^^^rko posted:
I wish it had come to pass, too. I think its very possible, but clearly we need to spend more time laying the groundwork instead of thinking we can capture the Presidency and fix it from the top down in one fell swoop. I also sincerely think that (D) winning in November will make doing all of this 100x easier than if Trump wins another term.
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May 5, 2020 20:13
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RBA Starblade posted:Bend The Knee Liberals really latched on to this, huh. Even the thought of being forced to accept a compromise with the left was so rage-inducing that they’re still bringing it up, months later, in the midst of a conversation where they’re trying to convince us to vote for the party that just hosed us all over. Sorry we were excited about the possibility of winning and getting you free healthcare, rear end in a top hat.
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May 5, 2020 20:13
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Jarmak posted:Trump is the death rattle of far right olds freaking out because the country has changed and they don't have power anymore. Are we living in the same nation? You realize that in 2016 all three branches government were seized by a party that representsfar-right white supremacy, right? And at this very moment, the party that is purportedly trying to oppose the white supremacist party has decided an old white rapist that’s friends with the white supremacists is to be their chosen nominee. Biden will not do anything to stop the far-right from continuing to take over and systematically dismantle every part of our government that’s not for the purpose of profit and genocide. He said it himself. He’s not changing the system. The future where Biden wins is not much different than the future where Trump wins. They’re both old, white, rapist capitalists and their supporters and voters will be fine either one of them. That’s the biggest indictment of the two-party system where both parties serve as hosts for the parasitic interests of financial entities.
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May 5, 2020 20:14
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Sure a lot of people in here that believe in upholding a system that delivers a choice between one of two escalating degrees of evil and authoritarianism every 4 years. Liberals will never not defend the system, even as their opponents corrupt it and turn it against them. They'll be trying to register for vote-by-mail while their neighbors are loaded up into buses for the concentration camps.
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May 5, 2020 20:14
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How are u posted:It's just simple math, man. As I mentioned in an earlier post, this same logic implies that not volunteering or donated to Biden helps Trump. Heck, it's actually even worse, since donating/volunteering can easily result in more than just a single vote for Biden. And even if you did donate $20, well, would it really have killed you to donate an extra $10? After all, this is Trump we're talking about! (moralizing about choices like this makes no sense because under that sort of logic everyone is a sinner for watching a movie when they could have been phone-banking to stop Trump or whatever)
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May 5, 2020 20:14
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rko posted:Liberals really latched on to this, huh. Even the thought of being forced to accept a compromise with the left was so rage-inducing that they’re still bringing it up, months later, in the midst of a conversation where they’re trying to convince us to vote for the party that just hosed us all over. What part of "Bend the Knee" is compromising?  Come on, now.
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May 5, 2020 20:15
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Bernie was the only candidate that had trans care on his platform lol
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May 5, 2020 20:15
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How are u posted:What part of "Bend the Knee" is compromising? Are you aware of what typically happens when you don't bend the knee
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May 5, 2020 20:17
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Pomp posted:Bernie was the only candidate that had trans care on his platform lol t H e V i R g I n A m O d E l
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May 5, 2020 20:17
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How are u posted:I wish it had come to pass, too. I think its very possible, but clearly we need to spend more time laying the groundwork instead of thinking we can capture the Presidency and fix it from the top down in one fell swoop. You are as dumb as your posts if you think we as a movement can do better than the Bernie 2020 campaign and the fervent activist work that went into laying the groundwork for its success. The party infrastructure rejected the movement and you want us to turn the other cheek and assume it’s because we didn’t work hard enough? What the hell kind of Stockholm syndrome is that? And if you think giving that establishment the White House is likely to make it easier on the left, I invite you to look at how the left fared under Obama and Clinton. E: you’re literally shoving a senile rapist down our throats and have the gall to act like some one-liners said by posters and podcast hosts makes us unreasonable? Holy poo poo. rko fucked around with this message at 20:20 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 20:18
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COVID-19 posted:Are we living in the same nation? You realize that in 2016 all three branches government were seized by a party that representsfar-right white supremacy, right? Yeah, literally my whole post was directly addressing this point and you have chosen to ignore it and shout slogans and hyperbolic bullshit into the void.
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May 5, 2020 20:19
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Pomp posted:Bernie was the only candidate that had trans care on his platform lol https://joebiden.com/lgbtq/ Decide for yourself but it sure seems better than Trump's trans platform.
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May 5, 2020 20:20
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rko posted:Liberals really latched on to this, huh. Even the thought of being forced to accept a compromise with the left was so rage-inducing that, months later, in the midst of a conversation where they’re trying to convince us to vote for the party that just hosed us all over. What did you think the phrase "bend the knee" referred to historically? And I'm not convincing any of you of anything, I don't expect you to vote for Biden. quote:Sorry we were excited about the possibility of winning and getting you free healthcare, rear end in a top hat. That's okay, I'll keep trying for it, but I don't know how likely that is if Trump wins again.
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May 5, 2020 20:21
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rko posted:You are as dumb as your posts if you think we as a movement can do better than the Bernie 2020 campaign and the fervent activist work that went into laying the groundwork for its success. Well if your attitude is "we tried as hard as humanly possible, did nothing wrong, and could never possibly do better" then yeah I get why you would despair. I utterly disagree with you.
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May 5, 2020 20:21
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How are u posted:https://joebiden.com/lgbtq/ You just linked me an advertisement
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May 5, 2020 20:22
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How are u posted:https://joebiden.com/lgbtq/ I'm not about to trust the word of a rapist.
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May 5, 2020 20:23
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https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/02/804873211/whiplash-of-lgbtq-protections-and-rights-from-obama-to-trump Yup no difference here
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May 5, 2020 20:24
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Jarmak posted:Yeah, literally my whole post was directly addressing this point and you have chosen to ignore it and shout slogans and hyperbolic bullshit into the void. The far-right was able to grab every branch of government and we are in the midst of countless constitutional crises as a result...and also these people have no power. Jarmak posted:Trump is the death rattle of far right olds freaking out because the country has changed and they don't have power anymore which happened to coincide with apathy over a lovely dem candidate and 8 years of having adults run the government lulling a lot of people into not taking Trump and his poo poo seriously. Every election since then has given us reason to think 2016 was an outlier. You seem to think that there were no significant numbers of Obama-Trump voters, which again shows your total lack of comprehension of American politics.
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May 5, 2020 20:24
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RBA Starblade posted:That's okay, I'll keep trying for it, but I don't know how likely that is if Trump wins again. Oh word how many doors have you knocked on or calls have you made for Biden since you're working so hard
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May 5, 2020 20:24
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Also lol I wasn't talking about legal protections but lol that you went straight to that because you have no idea of our material reality It costs me ~150+ a month to be trans. It cost me hundreds before I could even touch hormones. Bernie's plan covered all that
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May 5, 2020 20:25
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How are u posted:Well if your attitude is "we tried as hard as humanly possible, did nothing wrong, and could never possibly do better" then yeah I get why you would despair. We tried as hard as possible and then Obama made a phone call to install his preferred rapist while the media manufactured the necessary consent by giving him over $100m in free positive press in the span of two days. The system is hosed and working within it will not be permitted, as evidenced by New York cancelling only their presidential primary to deny the left any influential delegates within the system. Except earlier you said you don't want to relitigate the primary (and reading between the lines it's because you know it was dogshit) so you won't respond to this either.
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May 5, 2020 20:26
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COVID-19 posted:The far-right was able to grab every branch of government and we are in the midst of countless constitutional crises and also these people have no power. More bullshit straw-men and personal attacks instead of addressing what I said.
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May 5, 2020 20:26
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I don't understand the swath of people that try to shelter themselves from the pain of voting for a rapist by trying to fully nestle underneath a beep-boop utilitarian mindset and I've seen a fair amount of that in this thread (some further back; I don't catch up on this thread often). Look:  Do you think this creeping acceptance is just a random force of nature? Or maybe instead it is caused by people demonstrating their acceptance of this poo poo? I think people should vote, especially because of the downballot, but voting for Biden is voting for a movement that marginalizes, demonizes and destroys survivors of sexual violence. I find that immoral and I find the people that attempt to convince other people to accept it to be advocates of acceptance of sexual assault, whether they understand that they are doing so or not. Would you vote for Biden if he were a child molester? If he was a serial killer? Is there any statement about his moral character that would cause him to lose your vote? If so, why the hell isn't rape that line? And if not, why do you not care about what types of candidates political institutions run? Any statements of your support being tepid or whatnot do not matter to them and are only lies to give yourself false comfort; they only care about your vote, and you will get more candidates like Biden by voting for him. I don't think that the people who will vote for Biden are evil. But it is correct to point out that something like "I support women but I have to do this" is a lie on both sides of the statement. I understand people that choose to compromise their ideals to try to get trump out of office, but you are sacrificing your morals to do so and you should not consider yourself an ally of progressive movements.
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May 5, 2020 20:26
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Jarmak posted:It's not a rhetorical sleight of hand to make people be honest about the implications of their position. He never said "you're an evil person" either. I don't care what he calls me, I'm just saying "I'm not telling you to do X, but if you don't you're as bad as Trump voters" is indeed telling people to do X like that is what telling people to do something is, "here's why it's good to do X, and here's why it's bad to do not-X", (which isn't the same as ordering someone to do X, if that's where you're confused)
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May 5, 2020 20:26
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Unless Jesse Ventura is likely to seek the nomination of a political party and potentially be on the ballot in the general, shut the gently caress up about him.
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May 5, 2020 20:27
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Lemming posted:Oh word how many doors have you knocked on or calls have you made for Biden since you're working so hard Zero, due to my job. You'll understand if I don't say anything else about that. How many have you made to keep pushing for it? A lot, I hope.
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May 5, 2020 20:27
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