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how are u's dumb posts are proof that Bernie should have just gone scorched earth and told the actual literal truth about Biden being a rapist and a corrupt warmonger etc. He consistently runs the nicest campaigns of any politician ever, he never said anything 1% as "mean" as the stuff Warren and Biden said (quite accurately) about Bloomberg or (quite inaccurately) about Tara Reade, but right-wing Democrats just say he did anyway and cite his imaginary meanness and bullying as an excuse to shut out everyone to the right of Ronald W Reagan Hopefully the next leftist will learn from Bernie and Corbyn's mistakes and call out the right-wing of the party for what they truly are.
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May 5, 2020 20:58
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Xombie posted:Is the point here that if Biden wins he'll normalize this? Because either Trump or Biden are going to win. Wouldn't Trump equally normalize it? no democrats don't accept trump as a good guy. they hate him they are trying to accept biden as a good guy though. part of that is normalization of his lovely behavior (like unwanted hugging/kissing/digital penetration/rape) so yes, if biden wins he'll normalize rape. otherwise it will be tough for democrats to cheer for their rapist in chief.
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May 5, 2020 20:59
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Just to underline an important point here, Bernie campaigned hard in several states that Biden ended up winning without campaigning there at all. We knocked on a historic number of doors. Biden won one primary and the former president made a couple phone calls and all that work was erased literally overnight. What kind of local incrementalism is going to work when the national media can just instantly wipe out months of effort undertaken at the cost of millions of dollars and nearly as many volunteer hours? Seriously, I would love to know. Because I’m pretty sure 2020 just proves that we’re hosed no matter what we try at basically every level of politics unless it’s a sneak attack (cf. AOC in 2018, Corbyn in 2017 and Bernie in 2016), so I guess all we can do is hope that a savior appears from out of nowhere?
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May 5, 2020 20:59
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Condiv posted:no They already did this with Bill Clinton. Honestly the only exception so far has been Al Franken, and they would have ignored that too if it weren't right in the middle of the height of the #MeToo movement.
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May 5, 2020 21:00
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Xombie posted:. Hoping Biden loses is beyond protest voting or simply refusing to take part. It is actively wanting the outcome of Trump winning. It actually isn't! Likelihood and rationality doesn't even enter into the equation here. I hope Biden loses too. I also hope Trump loses. You can talk about likelihood until you're blue in the face but hoping Biden loses does not presuppose support for a trump win.
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May 5, 2020 21:00
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rko posted:What kind of local incrementalism is going to work when the national media can just instantly wipe out months of effort undertaken at the cost of millions of dollars and nearly as many volunteer hours? Seriously, I would love to know. Because I’m pretty sure 2020 just proves that we’re hosed no matter what we try at basically every level of politics unless it’s a sneak attack (cf. AOC in 2018, Corbyn in 2017 and Bernie in 2016), so I guess all we can do is hope that a savior appears from out of nowhere? They've literally succeeded in doing this in Virginia. Run progressive candidates in local elections and convince voters to vote for you. They did it. It is succeeding there! Your claims that it is impossible and thus we must burn the system down are unfounded.
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May 5, 2020 21:02
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:It actually isn't! Likelihood and rationality doesn't even enter into the equation here. I hope Biden loses too. I also hope Trump loses. You can talk about likelihood until you're blue in the face but hoping Biden loses does not presuppose support for a trump win. It absolutely does unless you're being delusional.
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May 5, 2020 21:02
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Xombie posted:They already did this with Bill Clinton. Honestly the only exception so far has been Al Franken, and they would have ignored that too if it weren't right in the middle of the height of the #MeToo movement. so in other words the Democratic party is deliberately setting the women's movement back 25 years, something even Donald Trump couldn't achieve, the DNC has done in less than two months
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May 5, 2020 21:02
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Xombie posted:They already did this with Bill Clinton. Honestly the only exception so far has been Al Franken, and they would have ignored that too if it weren't right in the middle of the height of the #MeToo movement. so it's ok to backslide? cause kicking loving franken out was actually good if you'd like me to change my post to say that biden will "re-normalize" rape, i can. I don't think it will make much of a difference to the argument though or the effects we want to avoid
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May 5, 2020 21:02
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Xombie posted:It absolutely does unless you're being delusional. why does this same calculus not apply to voting then
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May 5, 2020 21:03
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Xombie posted:It absolutely does unless you're being delusional. Nope sorry, that's just wrong. Someone can hope for something without thinking it's likely, and someone can think something is likely without hoping for it to happen. If you can't understand something that simple then I don't know that there's any getting through to you.
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May 5, 2020 21:03
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Condiv posted:so it's ok to backslide? cause kicking loving franken out was actually good No? I'm pointing out that the Democrats in 2016 were already just fine with their leaders being rapists.
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May 5, 2020 21:03
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VitalSigns posted:why does this same calculus not apply to voting then A single vote is statistically meaningless at the state or national level. Even more so if someone lives in a red or blue state.
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May 5, 2020 21:05
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this is literally an argument that Democrats are the greater evil nothing Trump could do could stop the progress the women's movement has made in the 25 years since a president raped some women and the country collectively shrugged, and at a single stroke the Democrats undid all the good done by the MeToo movement and achieved Trump's objectives for him. Yikes
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May 5, 2020 21:07
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Xombie posted:No? I'm pointing out that the Democrats in 2016 were already just fine with their leaders being rapists. bill clinton was not being re-elected in 2016. or do you think hillary was a rapist too? she sure as hell was a rape apologist, but I've never seen strong evidence she raped someone. in any case, biden's a backslide from even 2016 if you consider 2016 a bad year for dem candidates. so yes, he's normalizing worse behavior.
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May 5, 2020 21:08
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Xombie posted:I voted for Bernie in Ohio even after he dropped out. I don't really care who you vote for in the general, or if you vote at all. what if both biden and trump lose and we end up with howie hawkins. Thats what I hope happens.
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May 5, 2020 21:08
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VitalSigns posted:this is literally an argument that Democrats are the greater evil Trump put a rapist on the Supreme Court after he was proven to be a rapist on national TV. Who is likely about to overturn Roe v. Wade.
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May 5, 2020 21:09
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Xombie posted:A single vote is statistically meaningless at the state or national level. Even more so if someone lives in a red or blue state. 'hoping' is more meaningless, you're completely incoherent
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May 5, 2020 21:09
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ManBoyChef posted:what if both biden and trump lose and we end up with howie hawkins. Thats what I hope happens. This is not a possible outcome, though.
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May 5, 2020 21:10
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VitalSigns posted:'hoping' is more meaningless, you're completely incoherent "Hoping" is not statistical. Why in the world would you use "calculus" to refer to "hoping"? I'm talking about the liklihood of one vote mattering vs. the idea that both Trump and Biden lose.
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May 5, 2020 21:11
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Xombie posted:Trump put a rapist on the Supreme Court after he was proven to be a rapist on national TV. Who is likely about to overturn Roe v. Wade. why wouldn't the rapist you're wanting to put in the WH do similar things? do you actually think he gives a poo poo about women? if he did he wouldn't have raped at least one
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May 5, 2020 21:11
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Xombie posted:Trump put a rapist on the Supreme Court after he was proven to be a rapist on national TV. Who is likely about to overturn Roe v. Wade. And this is a great reason why the Democrats should not respond by trying to make a rapist president, they should instead force Biden out and elect someone else, and they will not do this as long as they think Biden still has enough support to win, which is why you should not support Biden
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May 5, 2020 21:11
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Xombie posted:This is not a possible outcome, though. It's absolutely possible. I believe you mean it's not probable. Words mean things.
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May 5, 2020 21:13
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Xombie posted:Trump put a rapist on the Supreme Court after he was proven to be a rapist on national TV. Who is likely about to overturn Roe v. Wade. yeah he put a rapist on the Supreme Court by forcing it through along partisan lines despite a majority of the country disapproving, that is a huge win for the women's movement from the days of the Anita Hill hearings when a Democratic-controlled senate was no obstacle to rapists on the court who are likely to overturn Roe v Wade in two months Biden and the DNC have reversed all that progress and now once again there is a popular mandate and wide bipartisan support for rapists in office VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 21:19 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 21:13
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Condiv posted:bill clinton was not being re-elected in 2016. or do you think hillary was a rapist too? Putting Clinton as a prominent DNC speaker and having him on the campaign trail for Hillary isn't saying "rapist leaders are ok"?
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May 5, 2020 21:14
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oh wait, biden did help a sexual assaulter get on the supreme court, so it's even more believable he'll boost a rapist on there like trump did
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May 5, 2020 21:14
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Xombie posted:"Hoping" is not statistical. Why in the world would you use "calculus" to refer to "hoping"? I'm talking about the liklihood of one vote mattering vs. the idea that both Trump and Biden lose. We're talking about the political equivalent of saying "Roll drat Meteor" at a Alabama/Notre Dame college football championship game.
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May 5, 2020 21:14
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Xombie posted:"Hoping" is not statistical. Why in the world would you use "calculus" to refer to "hoping"? I'm talking about the liklihood of one vote mattering vs. the idea that both Trump and Biden lose. literally nobody decides to vote in the presidential based on whether their vote has a statistical chance of mattering, unless they are bad at math like what, do you think the people who would vote for Bernie but not for Biden believe that a vote for Bernie somehow has a high likelihood of mattering, that's not why they're choosing not to vote for Biden and I think you know that which is why this ridiculous hairsplitting is absurd
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May 5, 2020 21:18
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How are u posted:They've literally succeeded in doing this in Virginia. Run progressive candidates in local elections and convince voters to vote for you. They did it. It is succeeding there! Your claims that it is impossible and thus we must burn the system down are unfounded. Centrist Democrats in Virginia are trying at least as hard to remove leftists like Lee Carter from their ranks as they are to defeat Republicans, and the same is true with AOC, Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib on a national scale. Sure the leadership loves to take credit for the progressive legislation pushed by these leftists but when it comes down to brass tacks they'd much rather get rid of them than move to the left. Again, the DNC is literally collaborating with neocons like Jennifer Rubin, Rick Wilson and Nicole Wallace to freeze the left wing of the party out of power. Joe Biden has signaled numerous times that he would rather work with these kind of people over actual leftists. They will use you for your vote and the optics and then throw you away when it comes time to implement the type of policies that will actually address the fundamental problems facing everyday people. If you can't see that by now you're delusional.
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May 5, 2020 21:18
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Xombie posted:Putting Clinton as a prominent DNC speaker and having him on the campaign trail for Hillary isn't saying "rapist leaders are ok"? back in 2016 a lot of dems even refused to admit what bill clinton did was rape. so sure if you squint really hard and try to claim bill clinton was leading the dems in 2016 sure you can say that biden (confirmed rapist, running for president) and bill clinton (rapist husband, powerless) are practically the same thing. except not, because bill clinton was not leading the democrats in 2016, his wife hillary was. all bill clinton was part of was advocating for hillary. he had no actual leadership left. but you're drat determined to raise him up to presidential level so you can claim the dems have always been ok with rape and biden is nothing special (again, normalizing biden, rape, and his behavior)
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May 5, 2020 21:20
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rscott posted:Centrist Democrats in Virginia are trying at least as hard to remove leftists like Lee Carter from their ranks as they are to defeat Republicans, and the same is true with AOC, Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib on a national scale. Sure the leadership loves to take credit for the progressive legislation pushed by these leftists but when it comes down to brass tacks they'd much rather get rid of them than move to the left. seriously, didn't the DNC spend a bunch of money trying to run a former Republican as a Democrat in the primary against Lee Carter, despite the fact that they didn't even bother to run candidates in his district when Republicans held it for years and years
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May 5, 2020 21:22
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gotta say xombie, watching you go from asking if biden winning will normalize rape, to literally trying to normalize rape among democrats in order to defend biden has been quite the trip
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May 5, 2020 21:24
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How are u posted:Personally I doubt that Biden is able to make it through a single 4 year term. I figure his VP will likely be President before 2024. Even if not, I don't think an 82 year old man is going to be running again. if he is running, he is running with a full diaper.
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May 5, 2020 21:25
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Condiv posted:back in 2016 a lot of dems even refused to admit what bill clinton did was rape. so sure if you squint really hard and try to claim bill clinton was leading the dems in 2016 sure you can say that biden (confirmed rapist, running for president) and bill clinton (rapist husband, powerless) are practically the same thing. it's funny because it's a literal example of Biden normalizing rape six months ago people like Xombie would have said that Republicans are uniquely awful because they alone support rapists in the age of MeToo and now it's "well Democrats have always supported rapists, nothing to see here, just another rapist to support as normal"
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May 5, 2020 21:26
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there's no way the first official entry in meltdown May wasn't Elon Musk, that probe message is revisionist
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May 5, 2020 21:26
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Xombie posted:Putting Clinton as a prominent DNC speaker and having him on the campaign trail for Hillary isn't saying "rapist leaders are ok"? Hey, guy who keeps saying he’s not arguing for Biden or how to vote, what exactly are you arguing for at this point? Like what’s your endgame here, now that you’re making the case that the Democrats can’t normalize rape by nominating Biden because they already have
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May 5, 2020 21:33
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VitalSigns posted:seriously, didn't the DNC spend a bunch of money trying to run a former Republican as a Democrat in the primary against Lee Carter, despite the fact that they didn't even bother to run candidates in his district when Republicans held it for years and years Hell, joe biden even campaigned for a Republican against a progressive in Michigan like last year
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May 5, 2020 21:37
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How are u posted:Running Progressives in state and local races, winning, governing responsibly, and building and growing a voter base that consistently comes out to vote for left candidates. they're not doing any of this, progressives are doing it without, and in some cases directly in spite, of them
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May 5, 2020 21:57
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rscott posted:Centrist Democrats in Virginia are trying at least as hard to remove leftists like Lee Carter from their ranks as they are to defeat Republicans, and the same is true with AOC, Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib on a national scale. Sure the leadership loves to take credit for the progressive legislation pushed by these leftists but when it comes down to brass tacks they'd much rather get rid of them than move to the left. joe biden is more of a direct attack against the left than an actual candidate. they saw that someone who wasn't far-right might actually get nominated and in response forced in the most odious and lovely candidate possible as if to say "gently caress you, we call the shots here" like everyone knows he's going to lose
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May 5, 2020 21:59
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For Biden to win he will need to win some combination of the following states that Hillary did not: Arizona Florida Michigan Pennsylvania Wisconsin Which means either Florida + 1 Other Any other 3* *[AZ + WI + MI also requires NE's 2nd] Biden's polling is currently comparable to Hillary's in these key states, only beating where Hillary was when she cinched the nomination in NC and AZ:  So for these polls to be good for Biden you have to assume that this race will be less dynamic than 2016 and that there is less risk of Biden having negative news cycles than Hillary. To me, that runs counter to the premise that Hillary was uniquely widely hated, since that would have been backed into early polling. No one who likes Rush Limbaugh ever said they were voting for Hillary. Meanwhile the public at large has little knowledge of the vast corruption of the Biden crime family. They haven't seen the videos of him restraining little girls as he touches them. They haven't even heard about cornpop. To me that indicates this race will be even more dynamic than 2016, since these are all new stories to people rather than the boring old stories of Hillary and Bill. Let alone the ways current events could flip the entire campaign on the head.
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May 5, 2020 22:03
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