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Transhumanism obsoletes Pride Parade? You'd think it'd be Homo Superior. 
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May 5, 2020 04:14
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StillFullyTerrible posted:Transhumanism obsoletes Pride Parade Wow it just doesn't stop
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May 5, 2020 05:21
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Anticheese posted:Wow it just doesn't stop I am reading that like "when anyone can be anything they want and it has become widespread, there is no need to have Pride Parades any more". But I might be too optimistic considering the mod we are speaking about. But what does Pride Parade do anyways? Increases happiness?
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May 5, 2020 05:59
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And I'm reading it like, at best, "what do you queers have to complain about now that silicon valley has made transition super easy?". Like, even putting aside that the trans in transhumanism is often brushed aside... especially in the context of all the  and super questionable sociology (holy poo poo everything race related in this)...You're still dealing with humans, and the question of who you love or are attracted to, and who you are doesn't just go away because you can print a new body. It doesn't mean that societal norms evaporate either. Even if we all had robot bodies, odds are pretty good there'll be LGBT robot folks. It would have cost them nothing to leave that obsolescence out, because while one optimistic read might be that society has evolved and these differences are fully accepted by everyone, the language of "obsolete" and the general tone of the mod as a complete work makes it feel like... Well, pretty gross to be honest. I've never been to a pride parade and I'm not here to defend those in particular, but I would be extremely surprised if whomever contributed that piece of content wasn't a straight dude who didn't stop to consider the implications.
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May 5, 2020 06:28
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Anticheese posted:the language of "obsolete" That's a happy accident, the tech screen using the word obsolete is actually hardcoded into Civ 4
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May 5, 2020 07:05
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I should have specified even as a game mechanic thing, but thank you for confirming that 
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May 5, 2020 07:10
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To be fair, by the time you hit transhumanism, you'd be hard-pressed to define "gay" (and lesbian and so on) in any meaningful way. Sex? gone, or at least fluid to the point of irrelevance. Gender? Yeah, but in the absence of sex, how do you define which genders there are and what traits to ascribe to each? If there are multiple, then you'd probably be attracted to subsets, at which point you'd need new definitions. Trans? Everyone is trans, although not quite in a way that's used today. And that implies that the concept of "sexuality" even survives, since it might not. Between designer drugs, babies grown in vats and designed to spec and highly advanced robotics there might not even be a point to having sex anymore.
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May 5, 2020 08:45
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Why would you assume any of those changes will happen? With regards to sex the genitalia, I don't see any particular reason people would want to give up on sex the activity. Sex can be fun and pleasant, whether it's needed for reproduction is not particularly relevant. Having sex rather presupposes having relevant bits or the ability to make/simulate them. So even if people change to robot bodies, they could very well be "fully functional", as it were. With regards to gender, why would that go away? 'They' is already a gender identity, and there's no particular reason 'it' couldn't also become a legitimate gender identity too, for AI and the like. Equating transhumanism and being transgender is pretty gross. People get murdered over being trans ("trans panic" is even a repugnant attempted excuse for murder), gender dysphoria is intensely unpleasant, and trans people have way higher suicide rates than cis people. None of that applies to transhumanists. At all.
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May 5, 2020 10:12
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Caustic Soda posted:Why would you assume any of those changes will happen? Thank you. You did a much better job of explaining that this wouldn't go away than I did and I appreciate the clearer-headed explanation. And yeah, given the other techs I just...Get the feeling that tech is at best a misguided bit of tech will solve all problems (i.e. things that the author thinks are problems), and at worst...Yeah.
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May 5, 2020 10:23
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Caustic Soda posted:Why would you assume any of those changes will happen? Please note that the reply was in the context of the mod where it already happened. Notice that it also obsoletes marriage, day cares and clothing, which certainly implies the above-mentioned changes. IRL we ain't gonna hit transhumanism for a while and it's possible that LGBT might become normal enough before then, that pride parades would lose their relevance. Unlikely to happen for a few generations, but hey, we can hope. What transhumanism would actually be, who knows. Caustic Soda posted:
Not untrue, but remember, by that point you are operating in nanite swarms and mind uploads. At that point, the activities that are pleasurable are defined by you, not your body, which is one heck of a thing to think about. But basically, while there would certainly be people who would make it pleasurable, i wonder just how widespread it would be if "sex is pleasurable" is not longer true by default for most of the population. If it's a bit unclear, imagine that instead of sex you could climax from just handholding (yes, your partner too). Would there even be a point in opting in for the whole process? Caustic Soda posted:
Note that i did not say that it would go away. Quite the opposite, i stated that in absence of sex, it's quite likely that the amount of genders will only increase, with people being attracted to subsets of genders. Caustic Soda posted:
What i was saying, is that when transhumanism hits, the ability to inhabit whatever body you want will necessarily mean that everyone is not in their baseline body and thus "trans" of a sort. I re-iterate that the entire above statement used "Transhumanism and absolute body modification is already something that exists" as a presupposition, it has no bearing on the current situation.
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May 5, 2020 11:08
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Regallion posted:Please note that the reply was in the context of the mod where it already happened. Notice that it also obsoletes marriage, day cares and clothing, which certainly implies the above-mentioned changes. Fair enough, I seem to have misread your intent there. Regallion posted:IRL we ain't gonna hit transhumanism for a while and it's possible that LGBT might become normal enough before then, that pride parades would lose their relevance. Unlikely to happen for a few generations, but hey, we can hope. What transhumanism would actually be, who knows. Don't be too sure of that. Where I live, pride is among other things a large street-party, which all kinds of people attend. Families with children, colleagues who arrange to attend as a contingent from their company, and so on. On more LGBT-specific matters, they have free seminars on all kinds of things, from gender roles to ideological concerns to "Anal: how to". The party-part of a pride parade may well linger on, even if there's no particular political need, or bodies have change enough that practical sex-advice is no longer relevant. Regallion posted:Not untrue, but remember, by that point you are operating in nanite swarms and mind uploads. At that point, the activities that are pleasurable are defined by you, not your body, which is one heck of a thing to think about. But basically, while there would certainly be people who would make it pleasurable, i wonder just how widespread it would be if "sex is pleasurable" is not longer true by default for most of the population. I think I see your argument that what is pleasurable can be reprogrammed, but I don't think it follows that people necessary would. My impression is that people tend overall to prefer the familiar, so without outside impetus I find it unlikely that most would venture too far from the then-current norm. I think this mod, and transhumanist fiction in general, overestimates the extent to which people are neophiles and/or xenophiles. Even if it's easy to have the body of a tank, or a nanoswarm, or an eagleman or whatever, I don't think most people would want to be. At least not for extended periods of time. Regallion posted:
I suppose that is possible. But to be frank, gender roles have a rather tenuous connection to ones physical sex as-is. If someone thinks of themself as male or female, I expect any change of body would reflect that self-image, rather than erode it. So long as the population is primarily human(-origin), I would expect male and female (whatever a person or society ascribes to those two) to remain far more common than other genders. Regallion posted:
As I hope I've explained, I don't think a move towards transhuman bodies need result in particularly pronounced changes to sexuality and gender. I acknowledge that that does seem like the assumption the mod goes with. I suppose it is still less nonsensical than the health/crime system, which can cause situations where you don't need a dentist because you just built a sewer, and you don't need police because you've built a daycare and a youth center.
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May 5, 2020 12:07
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see, this is why i just made a terrible joke and left it at that
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May 5, 2020 15:00
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Jossar's Playthrough – Transhuman 4  We’ve had Androids that are equivalent or superior to us intellectually for quite a while, but only now have we made them entirely indistinguishable. I’m not sure why this marks the point at which they totally take over participation in the workforce though.  Organic Cities, combined with Biopunk, allows for the production of truly organic cities with barely any non-organic components at all which nevertheless replicate all the functions of a non-organic city of the Transhuman Era. They have less military application (for some reason) but they’re much more powerful economically.   My commentary isn’t gonna top that quote.   Terra Computer introduces what I believe to be the last round of police units, the Sentinels. It also introduces a number of science/crime buildings as well as this fairly powerful wonder. Free specialists are still pretty nice, just like free population.    We gain the ability to put large megastructures around the moon. I think that’s supposed to be some kind of power beaming station based on solar panels placed around the moon? Also all lunar cities are united into a single moon-city, though mechanically this changes nothing.   This is only a test scenario for similar projects to be enacted elsewhere throughout the solar system. Earth is converted into a singular megacity, although Mars and Venus are still waiting on some infrastructure upgrades elsewhere in the tree.  Finally, although we haven’t quite reached the end of the Era yet, I’m able to build the Solar Economy capstone wonder. A little bit less impressive requirements than we’ve accomplished, but you definitely need Mars and Venus to be pretty heavily built by this point. And with that, I leave you to bask in the wonders of this, the impossibly distant, far-future year of 2020. Next time we’ll finish off the Transhuman Era and maybe move on to the start of the Galactic Era. Depends on how little meaningful there is to get through when we hit the division point. (Techs not mentioned: Binary Psychokinesis, Gaia Ecology, Nanomorphics, Nanoshielding, Photonic Satellites, Advanced Warmachines, Planetary Defenses, Solar Ordnance, Nuclear Pulse Propulsion, Thermal Negation)
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May 5, 2020 21:04
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What's Binary Psychokinesis supposed to be? Telekinetic computers?
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May 5, 2020 21:35
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The capacity for computers/robotics to manipulate matter or create perfect digital simulations of the manipulation of matter. The actual effects of the tech are to allow for the construction of robots that defend the Deep Space Colonies, a building representing the limited projection of virtual worlds into reality, and some kind of superadvanced combat arena that serves as a replacement for a couple of sports buildings that got obsoleted. Jossar fucked around with this message at 21:46 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 21:44
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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May 5, 2020 21:47
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sincx posted:our timeline sucks Clearly the problem is our failure to mount dolphins onto laser turrets.
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May 5, 2020 21:49
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So, what age are the other civs at right now? Are there still middle age knights watching strings of silver spread out through the night sky?
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May 5, 2020 21:59
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SIGSEGV posted:So, what age are the other civs at right now? Are there still middle age knights watching strings of silver spread out through the night sky? Barbarians: Technically Transhuman, but functionally neutralized. Babylon: Atomic Assyria/Zululand: Renaissance Aboriginal/Brazil: Classical Yes, this means since we last checked in Nanotech, the bottom part of the list hasn't gone up a single age and still consists of guys in phalanxes, let alone knights. Everybody else has at least made it to guys with guns though. Jossar fucked around with this message at 22:08 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 22:04
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The cybernetic world city must have come as a surprise to them.
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May 5, 2020 22:16
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paragon1 posted:The cybernetic world city must have come as a surprise to them. that's what nature preserves are for
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May 5, 2020 22:46
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Jossar posted:Aboriginal/Brazil: Classical
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May 5, 2020 23:10
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'Interrupts'? They're probably regulars. Sometimes there are some real insights from the togas.
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May 5, 2020 23:25
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I can't help but wonder how Babylon feels about all of this, since they're actually at a technology level where they can comprehend the implications of what Mongolia is doing.
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May 5, 2020 23:39
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Those unified planet cities really make me wonder how the game looks when several civs are attempting interplanetary colonisation at the same time. I suppose with the AI being that weak, you need to either go multiplayer or give the AI ludicrous bonuses. Which will cause the game to end in the ancient era due to someone playing rush.
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May 5, 2020 23:44
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Dr. Snark posted:I can't help but wonder how Babylon feels about all of this, since they're actually at a technology level where they can comprehend the implications of what Mongolia is doing. Can they really? Can anyone? (Decided to just go with a short update, because it's bonkers enough as is.) Jossar's Playthrough – Transhuman 5  Weather Control gives us the ability to terraform Earth. However, I am going to take a much lazier method.  There, the Eden Project lets us terraform the entirety of our cultural borders simultaneously towards more productive terrain.  Outside observers are baffled as all of Mongolia becomes visibly greener practically overnight.  We gain the ability to transform ourselves for adaptability to a much wider variety of environments. Humans may now live in the ocean or at least have a functionally infinite swim-time and the ability to fly. Outside observers are disturbed, though not especially so. Mongolians have been modding themselves for adaptability in a number of environments such as zero gravity, the Moon, Mars, extreme heat/cold and to give themselves variant sensory experiences, increased intelligence, and biological or non-biological immortality for a while now.  Biological Castes is exactly what you expect it to be. I don’t switch to it, though that is an impressive hammer bonus.  Okay, let’s take this one at a time. The first thing to note is that by combining high power terra supercomputers as a primary central processing system with distributed biotechnological nodes present throughout the planet thanks to Mongolian organic cities, we’ve made the Earth sentient. Or at least the biosphere, I’m not sure where the line’s being drawn here.  The second thing to note is that we gain the ability to build these Hi-Tech Robots. Apart from a few things like higher level Generals/Warlords and space units, these are functionally the last military units in the tree.  The third thing to note is that the people of Mongolia, inspired by awakening/enlightening the Earth have joined together throughout the entire solar system into a singular gestalt mind. Individuals still exist within it, but they are constantly connected at all times. Outside observers become outright terrified as Earth starts communicating with them and Mongolians occasionally start speaking in the Voice of Legion.   Extraterrestrial Agriculture is necessary to unlock Martian farms, which in turn unlock Martian Arcologies, the building signifying that Martian cities have reached nearly about as far as they’re going to go.   And so as Mars is organized into a planet spanning ecumenopolis, the people of Mongolia take their first gaze, all as one, towards distant stars. (Techs not mentioned: Apocalyptic Pathogens, Speculative Physiology, Mythological Beastiary, Molecular Scanning) Jossar fucked around with this message at 01:33 on May 6, 2020 |
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May 6, 2020 01:22
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TBH I kinda like this part, the gaggle of techs overflowing all over the place are probably very annoying to deal with, but at least they speak of imagination, even if cribbed elsewhere.
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May 6, 2020 01:30
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Hahaha, holy moly.
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May 6, 2020 01:31
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If you're gonna pillage other properties, pillage thoroughly.
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May 6, 2020 01:37
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Honestly that FMA quote is making me lol, since that was spoken with deep regret at the start of every episode. The Elrics learned the hard way that the principle could not be defied when they tried to bring back their dead mom, with one brother losing his leg and the other losing his entire body. And here we are.
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May 6, 2020 01:40
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Indeed, those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it, but without that sense of irony that adds that piquant je-ne-sais-quoi that helps bring it together. Besides, by now, many a Mongol has left behind their leg, or their entire body. Or bodies, even.
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May 6, 2020 01:56
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this is an alternate timeline where instead of invading and pillaging europe, the mongols invaded and pillaged the fabric of reality
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May 6, 2020 02:31
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And looking at the dates, all that for the last update happened in four in game years.
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May 6, 2020 02:44
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Ashsaber posted:And looking at the dates, all that for the last update happened in four in game years. Yeah, by this era a turn is either a month and a half or a few weeks. Can’t remember which one.
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May 6, 2020 04:11
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So I guess Earth is now Pandora, just with less giant blue people.
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May 6, 2020 04:13
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I like how the Earth is rejuvenated, just in time to pave it all under to turn it into Holy Terra.
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May 6, 2020 04:23
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Super Jay Mann posted:So I guess Earth is now Pandora, just with less giant blue people. I mean you could BE one if you want.
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May 6, 2020 04:23
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kw0134 posted:I like how the Earth is rejuvenated, just in time to pave it all under to turn it into Holy Terra. Look, it has really great loving parks, you can have a local public service node materialize a swarm of drones so you can start a little expedition in the global jungle outside of the lattice of shining towers of perfect chrome and glowing blue crystals. You might even meet some primitives with their adorably quaint nuclear tanks.
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May 6, 2020 04:29
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I have to admit that I did not see turning Earth into a massive sentient biocomputer coming. That uh...is a thing.SIGSEGV posted:Look, it has really great loving parks, you can have a local public service node materialize a swarm of drones so you can start a little expedition in the global jungle outside of the lattice of shining towers of perfect chrome and glowing blue crystals. "Oh, how cute, they tried to shoot me! I'm a bit offended by them calling me an 'abomination' though..." - Mongolian tourist after wandering into a military patrol (later reprimanded for causing unnecessary damage to the primitive population) Edit: Hold the phone, you can't just skip over a tech called "Mythological Bestiary." Please tell me that does what I think it does. Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 04:38 on May 6, 2020 |
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May 6, 2020 04:36
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Dr. Snark posted:Hold the phone, you can't just skip over a tech called "Mythological Bestiary." Please tell me that does what I think it does. It's really boring! Especially because we already have all the Biopunk buildings which cover the same thematic niche but better!  But yes, you get to build a bunch of breeder buildings for various mythological animals, most of the point of which is to feed into a happiness generating National Wonder.
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May 6, 2020 05:06
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