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TyrantWD posted:To try and get under Hillary’s skin, and he also didn’t think he was going to win the election at that point. You will notice he hasn’t really touched upon the Reade issue at all. He would much rather go after sleepy joe for his cognitive decline than inviting more scrutiny on his own rape allegations. Trump is at his strongest when he can credibly go after his opponent for poo poo he's doing himself. That's how we got Crooked Hillary after all. And he's gonna do it again and it'll work again.
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May 6, 2020 18:21
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like what even is the argument "well Trump did it too", are they saying raping is only bad if the other guy doesn't rape, are they saying that if one man rapes it's a free pass for every other man it's like mocking Hitler for not being blonde, like what are you conceding that his Aryan mysticism and murderous racial policies would be fine if his hair were lighter
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May 6, 2020 18:22
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Trabisnikof posted:His campaign is already making it a big issue, but they’re letting surrogates and ads do the heavy lifting since Trump sympathizes with Biden on the topic. This is a fairly brilliant pivot, whether he means to or not. By drawing the obvious parallels between himself and Biden, Trump continues to depress voter enthusiasm for the Democrats. The more that he can prove Biden to be a blue Trump, the more the Democrats and swing voters will stay home. At this point, any sort of polling data is too far out to really be an accurate measure of anything. We have about 6 months of this madness. Hell, the whole thing may just be a referendum on Trump's handling of Covid.
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May 6, 2020 18:24
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VitalSigns posted:like what even is the argument "well Trump did it too", are they saying raping is only bad if the other guy doesn't rape, are they saying that if one man rapes it's a free pass for every other man Please vote for our rapist, obviously.
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May 6, 2020 18:28
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Trabisnikof posted:Not nearly as absurd as the people who are arguing that since Biden is doing as well as Hillary did at the stage, Biden will win in a landslide.
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May 6, 2020 18:30
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Trabisnikof posted:Well at least the Biden defenders agree it would be impossible for Bernie and the Bros to throw the election, so if Biden loses that’s one excuse you can’t use. Though I wouldn't be surprised if Bernie somehow won the Democrat establishment would give him the Corbyn treatment and actively sabotage the election in Trump's favour.
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May 6, 2020 18:31
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TyrantWD posted:That was easier to do when he was an outsider with no record. On economics, he has proven to be pretty much a bog standard Paul Ryan/McConnell establishment ghoul. I don't think that's fair to say, honestly. Trump's tariff-based trade war is well known to the electorate and far outside the standards of either party. You can argue it was a bad idea or failure if you want. In contrast: Biden Did NAFTA. https://twitter.com/violetikon/status/1243519705681362947
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May 6, 2020 18:33
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Cpt_Obvious posted:At this point, any sort of polling data is too far out to really be an accurate measure of anything. We have about 6 months of this madness. Hell, the whole thing may just be a referendum on Trump's handling of Covid. I'm just waiting on the maps.
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May 6, 2020 18:35
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Cpt_Obvious posted:This is a fairly brilliant pivot, whether he means to or not. yeah he's backing Biden into a corner over it, by bringing up the "false" accusations they've both had to deal with, Biden and the Democrats can only respond by (1) agreeing that Trump is innocent and they've been full of poo poo for 4 years, or (2) look like the obviously full of poo poo morons they are by trying to thread the "oh well these women got all confused and made it all up, but those women are the real deal" needle TyrantWD posted:To try and get under Hillary’s skin, and he also didn’t think he was going to win the election at that point. You will notice he hasn’t really touched upon the Reade issue at all. He would much rather go after sleepy joe for his cognitive decline than inviting more scrutiny on his own rape allegations. Trump campaign goes after Biden with new ad on Tara Reade allegations
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May 6, 2020 18:35
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Cerebral Bore posted:Trump is at his strongest when he can credibly go after his opponent for poo poo he's doing himself. That's how we got Crooked Hillary after all. And he's gonna do it again and it'll work again. He got Hillary on NAFTA and running as a populist against an uber-establishment candidate that was widely hated and untrusted. The Bill Clinton angle fell flat. Someone else pointed out that the Trump surrogates might go after Biden on Reade, which is a certainty, but this idea that Trump is going to be personally dunking on Biden over rape allegations when he has a mountain of them himself is wrong. Not because he is above being a hypocrite, but he probably doesn’t want new, unheard allegations coming to light.
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May 6, 2020 18:38
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RBA Starblade posted:I'm just waiting on the maps. I'm confused. Do you mean the actual electoral maps, as in waiting until the election is over? Or the maps that predict a win for either side? Or do you mean the polling that I posted earlier with Hillary far out ahead this time 4 years ago?
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May 6, 2020 18:38
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TyrantWD posted:He got Hillary on NAFTA and running as a populist against an uber-establishment candidate that was widely hated and untrusted. Why? Men at his level don't get punished for rape. A lot of people even reward them for it.
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May 6, 2020 18:39
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joepinetree posted:The real question isn't whether Biden can beat Trump. It's what he does if he wins. NY right now has cut medicaid, reversed bail reform and is using COVID as an excuse to engage in Gates Foundation style school reform, even as libs fawn over "president Cuomo." Colorado is also cutting medicaid. That reminds me, back in 2018 I think, Colorado dems were pushing for all sorts of progressive platforms during the election, promising to implement all that if they were giving complete control of the state. Then when they won, they said "actually we're doing none of that, it's just not needed." So that they're also trying to cut medicaid during a pandemic isn't a huge surprise. But remember people, gotta vote blue no matter who.
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May 6, 2020 18:39
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VitalSigns posted:yeah he's backing Biden into a corner over it, by bringing up the "false" accusations they've both had to deal with, Biden and the Democrats can only respond by (1) agreeing that Trump is innocent and they've been full of poo poo for 4 years, or (2) look like the obviously full of poo poo morons they are by trying to thread the "oh well these women got all confused and made it all up, but those women are the real deal" needle Or they can just ignore anything Trump says about rape. Which is probably not a big loss strategically, since they focused on his misconduct so much in 2016 and it didn't move the needle much if at all. Who knows if they'll be smart enough to leave it alone - liberals are super good at being baited by Trump - but it's an option for them.
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May 6, 2020 18:39
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TyrantWD posted:He made it an issue because his own history with women was already a topic. Anyone who thinks Trump wants sexual assault allegations to be a topic over the next few months is missing the mark. Trump will go there if he is trailing badly and is ready to unleash everything and anything, but he is absolutely not going to bring up rape allegations unprompted, when he is in a winning position. Except Republicans love attacking their opponents in areas where they, themselves, are weak. Karl Rove codified the tactic, but it's something the party had been doing since before that turd blossom congealed into a roughly person shaped ball of slime. TyrantWD posted:Someone else pointed out that the Trump surrogates might go after Biden on Reade, which is a certainty, but this idea that Trump is going to be personally dunking on Biden over rape allegations when he has a mountain of them himself is wrong. Not because he is above being a hypocrite, but he probably doesn’t want new, unheard allegations coming to light. If he doesn't want new allegations coming to light, that's even more reason to go on the attack. That way if the Dems/Biden try to bring it up, he can just accuse them of trying to deflect from the real issue. This is how the Republican party works. Again, see Rove, Karl. Falstaff fucked around with this message at 18:52 on May 6, 2020 |
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May 6, 2020 18:48
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It just occurred to me that rape accusations are offensive to Trump not because rape is wrong, but because he resents the implication that any woman, anywhere, ever would be unwilling to have sex with him.
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May 6, 2020 18:56
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Falstaff posted:Except Republicans love attacking their opponents in areas where they, themselves, are weak. Karl Rove codified the tactic, but it's something the party had been doing since before that turd blossom congealed into a roughly person shaped ball of slime. It's probably going to look like this: Every day, on every television screen and every facebook page, you will have a thousand ads reminding you that Biden is a rapist. However, Trump will never actually talk about it. When asked, he will immediately call both his accusers and Biden's accusers liars. Democrats will be forced to agree, and start getting super depressed over the whole situation. I think it's important to compare the Biden campaign with the Hillary campaign. Both are deeply unpopular candidates attempting to appeal to moderate swing voters and disenfranchised Republicans. However, there is one key difference. Hillary was loving everywhere. You couldn't turn on a talk show or newscast without her smug grin plastered all over the drat thing. The Democrats were essentially rubbing your face in the fact that everyone hated her. Maybe they learned their lesson, because right now Biden be Hide'n. Maybe this is a new tactic, to simply let Trump shoot himself in the dick and then swoop in victoriously at the end. I don't know. Frankly, I don't think that the Democratic party has enough self-reflection and political tact to do something that smart. More likely, they just see how terrible Biden is on camera and decide to squander the most effective time perhaps in American history to get free media exposure. However, what this does do is allow Trump complete control over the narrative. Trump can lie and squeal and accurately paint the democrats as incompetent nay-sayers, and the Biden can't even be bothered with a "Nuh' uh!
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May 6, 2020 18:58
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https://twitter.com/karpmj/status/1258061933263097856
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May 6, 2020 19:02
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Falstaff posted:If he doesn't want new allegations coming to light, that's even more reason to go on the attack. That way if the Dems/Biden try to bring it up, he can just accuse them of trying to deflect from the real issue. This is how the Republican party works. He doesn’t need to go on the attack on the topic because the Dems can’t bring it up with Biden on top of the ticket. With personal conduct off the table the Democrats are boxed in to issues such as immigration or border security, which Trump sees as issues where he is strong, the economy prior to coronavirus which was going to win the election for him, coronavirus response where he is running even, and healthcare which is his one weakness. The GOP doesn’t have a response on protecting pre-existing conditions, but running on restoring the pre-corona virus economy is more than enough to overcome the divisions that existed outside the GOP before Reade.
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May 6, 2020 19:07
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Every day, on every television screen and every facebook page, you will have a thousand ads reminding you that Biden is a rapist. However, Trump will never actually talk about it. When asked, he will immediately call both his accusers and Biden's accusers liars. Democrats will be forced to agree, and start getting super depressed over the whole situation. Trump has a preternatural, innate ability for this stuff and it's absolutely the most effective possible thing he could do and he's already doing it. There's no better way to demoralize the hashtag resisters than Trump (correctly!) reminding them that he and Joe are very much alike.
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May 6, 2020 19:09
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This worked great for Kerry
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May 6, 2020 19:18
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oh my god their plan literally is to bet everything on the "I could be at brunch right now" caucus, they heard that joke somewhere and decided to build a campaign strategy around it
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May 6, 2020 19:22
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see, this is why it annoys me when I get scolded for saying that Biden's own campaign is about changing exactly nothing except who is doing all this awful poo poo. It's literally the case and he and his people keep on saying it!
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May 6, 2020 19:26
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Me, in a burning house with a pile of poo poo on the table: "someone better get rid of this poo poo!"
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May 6, 2020 19:28
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He’s literally just a layer of Kilz without fixing the roof leak. Stupid loving dogshit party.
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May 6, 2020 19:30
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Joe Biden and the Democrats have killed #MeToo. And they might be rewarded with the presidency for it. https://twitter.com/BenSpielberg/status/1258066189307109376 The day Bernie suspended his campaign I went online and changed my voter registration to no longer be a member of the Democratic Party, and this is just cementing my resolve against reversing that decision.
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May 6, 2020 19:31
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VitalSigns posted:oh my god They said that joke and are now running a campaign for no one but themselves.
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May 6, 2020 19:31
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I haven't really been following politics for the last few years so I'm more asking a question than making any argument, but I remember we weren't hilary fans four years ago either, I was personally not big on her racism. Anyway, I've been hearing a friend talk about how he's been going on reddit to argue that we should not vote for biden in order to teach the DNC a lesson that they need to move further left and reading the last few pages I see the same thing mentioned here. I also remember hearing that same argument back in 2016. I'd obviously like to see the party and country move further left and voted for Sanders in the primary, so I guess my question is, did this "teach the DNC a lesson" strategy work out for us four years ago, when they chose Hillary and she lost to Trump? And if not, then how many more elections are we going to have to tank before the DNC magically wakes up and comes crawling to us? Because it doesn't really seem like the democratic establishment is getting the message we're trying to send. Which direction has the country moved historically based on if there was an R or a D in the white house? Does history support the country and the overton window moving to the left, the more D's we get into the white house, and to the right, the more R's that get into the white house? Or the reverse? Or does it even matter, who's in office since we've seen the country trend rightward on finance, with the wealth gap growing and tax cuts for the rich increasing since the 1950's, while on the other hand we're a lot better on social issues than we were in the 1950's? Anyway do we realistically see the country moving left if we just let, say, the next three presidents be Republicans? Is this accelerationism? I used to think that might work but these days, after seeing a country where half the people define themselves by happily cutting of their nose to spite their face, I really don't think there's a point, at least not within a reasonable probability of occurring, where people wake up to how bad they have it, and how good all these other countries have it, and suddenly start racing leftward. Republicans would rather watch their own children die of preventable illnesses than let black people or immigrants get "free" healthcare, that alone should tell us everything we need to know about this country and probability that accelerationism would ever work as a wake up call.
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May 6, 2020 19:32
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these people mustn't win
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May 6, 2020 19:34
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Democrats is just a name, voting D doesn't mean you're voting for the left. The party has moved right to court Republicans and that has lead to Biden winning. How does voting for Biden show anything but approval for both parties moving to the right?
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May 6, 2020 19:35
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do favorability polls factor in voter suppression now? cause being within the margin of error is absolutely an electoral loss
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May 6, 2020 19:36
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I like how to the Biden team promising stuff and wanting to follow through on it is seen as bad and unreasonable
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May 6, 2020 19:38
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-Blackadder- posted:I haven't really been following politics for the last few years so I'm more asking a question than making any argument, but I remember we weren't hilary fans four years ago either, I was personally not big on her racism. it's not about a wake up call, that's never gonna happen, these people have an ideology and they're not gonna change it (just like i won't change my own) it's about keeping them away from the levers of power because they always use them to crush the left if they're out of power the left has some space to work with but the moment bidens and obamas come into power they put a bullet in anything remotely left-ish while crawling over broken glass to kiss a republican's feet
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May 6, 2020 19:38
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^ ^ ^ also that-Blackadder- posted:I haven't really been following politics for the last few years so I'm more asking a question than making any argument, but I remember we weren't hilary fans four years ago either, I was personally not big on her racism. there was much, much more support on these forums for Hillary and also in real life than anything anybody is seeing for Biden lol 2016 didn't teach them anything because there wasn't a big protest vote movement - Bernie people proved themselves more loyal to the party than losing candidate supporters typically are. There's still concern it wouldn't work, but it's the only tool we've got at this point, and the reason for the worry isn't 2016, it's the very real chance the Dems just do not care i they lose big because they still get rich as gently caress under Trump the simple fact is that if you are left of Biden you are not welcome in the Democratic party. Any accelerationist is voting for Trump
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May 6, 2020 19:39
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the strategy of not voting for a right-wing Dem to teach the DNC a lesson wasn't tried in 2016, Bernie supporters voted for her by bigger margins than her supporters voted for Barack Obama She lost because she's a terrible loving candidate who ran one of the most mindblowingly incompetent campaigns in history. The left showed the DNC that they own our votes no matter what they do, so of course the lesson the DNC took from that is they owe us nothing and they can just rig it again and sprint even harder to the right to win those mythical reasonable Republican voters 2016 followed by 2020 proved that Vote Blue No Matter Who is a failure at turning the Democratic Party more left, as it should be, elementary game theory tells you that if you own the votes of constituency X no matter what then there's no upside to ever giving them anything, and the correct strategic play is to push them in front of a bus for a dollar. And this is what we see, who are the voters the DNC is obsessed with coddling and pandering to? That's right: Republicans who don't vote for Democrats but who signal that they will one day if Democrats finally cater to them enough VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 19:52 on May 6, 2020 |
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May 6, 2020 19:50
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-Blackadder- posted:I haven't really been following politics for the last few years so I'm more asking a question than making any argument, but I remember we weren't hilary fans four years ago either, I was personally not big on her racism. Well, if the objective is to teach the DNC a lesson then this is literally the moment when the lesson must be taught. They had their chance but refused to compromise in any way so you need to make good on the threat or you lose all credibility and leverage. Also Biden is the accelerationist candidate because a Biden presidency would inevitably lead to massive GOP gains in 2022 and 2024. Also Biden's entire gimmick is that he wants to give the Republicans everything that they could ever want, so you'll just hurtle right anyway until turbofascism hits.
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May 6, 2020 19:53
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Cerebral Bore posted:Well, if the objective is to teach the DNC a lesson then this is literally the moment when the lesson must be taught. They had their chance but refused to compromise in any way so you need to make good on the threat or you lose all credibility and leverage. this isn't exaggeration btw. Reid had to bar Biden from taking part in any negotiations because he'd just wander in, ask the Republicans what they wanted, then push for that. This time around we won't even have somebody willing to fight for the party against him even if Biden gets a Senate majority lmao
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May 6, 2020 19:56
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I don't think accelerationism works. The truth is that America is an extremely conservative country and most people are happy enough with conservatives as long as they're not called conservatives.
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May 6, 2020 19:58
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Epic High Five posted:
No there wasn't. Hillary was the devil incarnate around this point in 2016. This thread loves shifting goalposts and pretending that this new awful thing is their breaking point and that they were endlessly patient and even accepting of that old awful thing, but this new thing is a step too far. Never-Hillary was as big here as anywhere else on the internet - especially around this point when everyone was convinced Hillary was cheating to win the primaries and doing delegate math was everyone's favorite game. People claiming that they would have held their nose for anyone other than Biden or Bloomberg, and desperately want the DNC to replace Biden with anyone else, were the same people saying how nothing in the world would make them ever for Pete when he was the centrist to beat.
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May 6, 2020 19:59
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:I don't think accelerationism works. The truth is that America is an extremely conservative country and most people are happy enough with conservatives as long as they're not called conservatives. seems like if that were true Biden's approval numbers would be much higher
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May 6, 2020 20:05
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