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I have a good time vs aggro and bannerman playing bilgewater allegiance +pnz splash with six one drops. My opponents may be bad (people seem to be climbing very fast with burn) so I wouldn't recommend it as an actual counter deck but it doesnt feel oppressive to me. A deck that is understood to be an actual counter to both of those is the corina + vi deck.
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May 6, 2020 17:32
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No Wave posted:I have a good time vs aggro and bannerman playing bilgewater allegiance +pnz splash with six one drops. My opponents may be bad (people seem to be climbing very fast with burn) so I wouldn't recommend it as an actual counter deck but it doesnt feel oppressive to me. Vi control is quite good against aggro for sure, it feels unwinnable on the aggro side.
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May 6, 2020 17:34
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The best part of the Pilfered Goods mechanic is that there is nothing more satisfying than beating someone senseless with their own cards.
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May 6, 2020 17:52
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CitizenKeen posted:The best part of the Pilfered Goods mechanic is that there is nothing more satisfying than beating someone senseless with their own cards. Agreed. *Flashback to the time when Mind Control cost was 8 mana in Hearthstone* Good times.
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May 6, 2020 18:01
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No Wave posted:I have a good time vs aggro and bannerman playing bilgewater allegiance +pnz splash with six one drops. My opponents may be bad (people seem to be climbing very fast with burn) so I wouldn't recommend it as an actual counter deck but it doesnt feel oppressive to me. Unless they play the "my unit can't take damage or die" card and then you are hosed, it's stupid
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May 6, 2020 19:38
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Always think about how to protect your units. "If I play this unit, do I have the mana and cards to protect it from what they can do?" is the most important question. To give you an easy/common example: Playing a 1 mana unit on turn one means you can't play your 3 mana spell to protect Zed on turn three, so maybe you shouldn't play your 1 mana unit until after you play your Zed, and are able to defend him. Even though that means skipping two attack rounds, your Zed is too important to put down without protection so you need to be thinking three turns ahead. However if you have a 1 mana spell that can protect Zed (elixer of iron for ex) that means you can use 2 mana on units before you play Zed since you'll have the mana to protect him from removal cards.
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May 6, 2020 20:29
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Yeah that was mind-blowing, that and not always playing/attacking with a unit even if you can, due to ruination and judgement and etc. I was definitely a "put em all down and smoosh em together to make em fight" player til I did some reading and watching.
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May 6, 2020 20:32
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Coming from Hearthstone and not having much (read: any) experience with MtG has made the adjustment a little tricky. I'm not used to the interweaving turns and being able to respond to cards! This is hard!
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May 6, 2020 20:34
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I went from MTG to Hearthstone to this and it's really nice to have more of the play and counterplay of MTG with a business model that does not involve me spending hundreds of dollars every year. Being able to respond to people's responses is so nice.
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May 6, 2020 20:45
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That aspect is cool to watch as it creates some fun mind games. Like you need to frostbite their garen but you can't do it until you think you've baited out the single combat or justice, so you have to decide would you rather take a bad block and hope they cast something passing action back to you or gamble they don't have it and use the debuff early. Countering the things even if you're not specifically using deny.
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May 6, 2020 20:57
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threelemmings posted:That aspect is cool to watch as it creates some fun mind games. Like you need to frostbite their garen but you can't do it until you think you've baited out the single combat or justice, so you have to decide would you rather take a bad block and hope they cast something passing action back to you or gamble they don't have it and use the debuff early. Countering the things even if you're not specifically using deny. These interactions are the meat of this game imo. That and silly complicated combat spell stack where each person tries to get initiative on spell order to use something that cancels the 4 previous spells cast.
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May 6, 2020 21:31
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The turns where there's like 8 spells on the stack fighting over how best to kill a 1/1 spider are what make this game memorable.
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May 6, 2020 22:12
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threelemmings posted:That aspect is cool to watch as it creates some fun mind games. Like you need to frostbite their garen but you can't do it until you think you've baited out the single combat or justice, so you have to decide would you rather take a bad block and hope they cast something passing action back to you or gamble they don't have it and use the debuff early. Countering the things even if you're not specifically using deny. Megasabin posted:These interactions are the meat of this game imo. That and silly complicated combat spell stack where each person tries to get initiative on spell order to use something that cancels the 4 previous spells cast. mistaya posted:The turns where there's like 8 spells on the stack fighting over how best to kill a 1/1 spider are what make this game memorable. This thread makes me realize how much of mtg I've taken for granted and just assumed was in other ccgs not names hearthstone.
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May 6, 2020 22:48
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The back and forth of this game is honestly BETTER than MTG. And I say this as a deeply invested player who even runs a MTG podcast. The way this game actually plays out is typically more interesting and involves way more decisions. There are limitations compared to MTG of course, but the back and forth of the turns is incredible.
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May 6, 2020 23:02
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Speaking of memorable, this was a gas.
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May 6, 2020 23:02
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ShaneB posted:The back and forth of this game is honestly BETTER than MTG. And I say this as a deeply invested player who even runs a MTG podcast. The way this game actually plays out is typically more interesting and involves way more decisions. There are limitations compared to MTG of course, but the back and forth of the turns is incredible. I mean maybe in the aspect that all the "colors" have board interactions but you can definitely build decks that have more interaction than any in LoR... at least pre t3feri.
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May 6, 2020 23:09
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ShaneB posted:The back and forth of this game is honestly BETTER than MTG. And I say this as a deeply invested player who even runs a MTG podcast. The way this game actually plays out is typically more interesting and involves way more decisions. There are limitations compared to MTG of course, but the back and forth of the turns is incredible. The back and forth with the alternating attacks reminds me a lot of the old Vs system tcg. It's super dynamic.
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May 6, 2020 23:11
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To be fair, I don't want Magic's interaction. Like, don't get me wrong, Magic's a fun game on the table. I'm always down to play? But digitally, I find Magic to be such a slog. I want enough interaction that I can poo poo on my opponent's plans, but not so much interaction that I have to tell the computer I don't want to do anything five times in a row.
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May 6, 2020 23:12
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Sedisp posted:This thread makes me realize how much of mtg I've taken for granted and just assumed was in other ccgs not names hearthstone. That complexity is mtgs strength and weakness, I think runeterras definitely done the best job at making it extremely obvious how things are going to play out. My big game was netrunner and I preferred playing Corp side so I enjoy the mindgaming. In netrunner it isn't as much "does he have this card" type outplays but more "would he protect the trap, or the objective. Is this card in the open bait that'll kill me?" Though there's not really a good analogy to that in most ccgs, since they're all dudes vs dudes, there's no servers to hide your cards like demented minesweeper.
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May 6, 2020 23:12
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Sedisp posted:I mean maybe in the aspect that all the "colors" have board interactions but you can definitely build decks that have more interaction than any in LoR... at least pre t3feri. I'm speaking more to the gameplay that simply cannot exist in magic, like: I am an aggro deck, and have 2 more 1 drops in hand that could get damage in. However, when the round begins and the attack token is in my hand, I have to make a decision: do I play one out, or swing in? Swinging means they couldn't play a new blocker, but I lose extra potential damage. In magic there are plenty of risk/reward decisions like this but not in the same cadence in the least. I make MANY more decisions in every game of Runeterra than I do in Magic.
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May 6, 2020 23:12
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ShaneB posted:The back and forth of this game is honestly BETTER than MTG. And I say this as a deeply invested player who even runs a MTG podcast. The way this game actually plays out is typically more interesting and involves way more decisions. There are limitations compared to MTG of course, but the back and forth of the turns is incredible. Yeah it’s somehow simpler than MTG but has more decisions, it owns
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May 6, 2020 23:13
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CitizenKeen posted:To be fair, I don't want Magic's interaction. Like, don't get me wrong, Magic's a fun game on the table. I'm always down to play? But digitally, I find Magic to be such a slog. I want enough interaction that I can poo poo on my opponent's plans, but not so much interaction that I have to tell the computer I don't want to do anything five times in a row. I will 100% agree that LoR is a better digital game than MtG Arena is and unfortunately for MTG I don't think it's possible to really eclipse LoR in that regard. threelemmings posted:That complexity is mtgs strength and weakness, I think runeterras definitely done the best job at making it extremely obvious how things are going to play out. My big game was netrunner and I preferred playing Corp side so I enjoy the mindgaming. In netrunner it isn't as much "does he have this card" type outplays but more "would he protect the trap, or the objective. Is this card in the open bait that'll kill me?" It's a pretty good balance I agree I just always assumed most ccgs had something similar to the stack in mtg but apparently LoR is the only one that has bothered to keep the best part of mtg which is so baffling.
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May 6, 2020 23:18
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Sedisp posted:I will 100% agree that LoR is a better digital game than MtG Arena is and unfortunately for MTG I don't think it's possible to really eclipse LoR in that regard. As a Magic Dude the weird/frustrating part is how spells resolve in 5th edition-esque batches rather than individually. As an example, if I have the spell that gives a damaged unit +3/+3 in hand, and they target my undamaged 6/6 with two Get Excited, I can’t save my guy Resolving them individually would make spell batches take way longer to resolve though so I understand why it is the way it is
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May 6, 2020 23:28
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Sedisp posted:It's a pretty good balance I agree I just always assumed most ccgs had something similar to the stack in mtg but apparently LoR is the only one that has bothered to keep the best part of mtg which is so baffling. Eternal is probably your best bet if you want not-quite-magic. You've got similar deckbuilding where you can play any combination of cards from 5 factions but need to include a manabase as well (a little less punishing though because your "colored mana" doesn't tap -- so if you have 4 total mana cards, but only UU, you could play 2 cards that cost UU in a turn but not a card that cost UUUU) and you have a similar stack system to Magic but with a few less interaction windows (so you can respond to a sorcery card, but not a creature card for example). I had a lot of fun with it for a few years but stayed away for a while and there are just too many cards to keep up with now.
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May 6, 2020 23:43
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kingcobweb posted:As a Magic Dude the weird/frustrating part is how spells resolve in 5th edition-esque batches rather than individually. As an example, if I have the spell that gives a damaged unit +3/+3 in hand, and they target my undamaged 6/6 with two Get Excited, I can’t save my guy Slow spells have to resolve individually, where Fasts can be chained BUT if you chain your Fasts the opponent can nope your whole stack if they have a good card for it. Like if I blow two Get Excited you can Glimpse it and deny BOTH of my dedicated cards. Deciding if you want to chain your Fast speed spells is something that's really important for Ezreal decks in particular and it can be a tricky thing so I think it's intended behavior with cost/rewards for either decision. e: The mind games in this game are real.
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May 6, 2020 23:51
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kingcobweb posted:As a Magic Dude the weird/frustrating part is how spells resolve in 5th edition-esque batches rather than individually. As an example, if I have the spell that gives a damaged unit +3/+3 in hand, and they target my undamaged 6/6 with two Get Excited, I can’t save my guy Correct me if I'm wrong but the "stack" in LoR resolves the same way as it does in MTG right? I guess in this specific incident you would have a chance to respond in MtG after the spell resolved to buff the damaged unit since the initiative system doesn't exist. Spell speeds react differently but for the most part its the same I think. Sedisp fucked around with this message at 00:07 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 00:03
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Sedisp posted:Correct me if I'm wrong but the "stack" in LoR resolves the same way as it does in MTG right? I guess in this specific incident you would have a chance to respond in MtG after the spell resolved to buff the damaged unit since the initiative system doesn't exist. Yeah thats the key difference, the stack is layered the same but you only gain priority every time there is the possibility of a stack, and there has been a change of state since you last had control i.e. someone plays a slow/fast spell (adding to the stack) Combat has begun. If both sides pass in turn the stack resolves as is, if someone adds, then priority passes to the opponent who can add more spells (resetting the state "Timer) or can pass and let things resolve
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May 7, 2020 00:17
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I like the big unstoppably resolving stack. It creates big dramatic moments in a game that's mostly designed around incremental advantage.
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May 7, 2020 00:23
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Sedisp posted:Correct me if I'm wrong but the "stack" in LoR resolves the same way as it does in MTG right? I guess in this specific incident you would have a chance to respond in MtG after the spell resolved to buff the damaged unit since the initiative system doesn't exist. There's a big difference between things resolving one-by-one, and resolving as a batch, especially in combat. For example, the fast spell that stuns a guy and makes a 3/2 would be totally different: you can't wait for them to attack, then use it, and block with the guy it makes.
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May 7, 2020 00:25
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Stormgale posted:Yeah thats the key difference, the stack is layered the same but you only gain priority every time there is the possibility of a stack, and there has been a change of state since you last had control i.e. SInce Burst spells don't go on the stack if an opponent say single combats you then passes to you can you play a burst spell then pass disallowing them to play a burst spell in response?
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May 7, 2020 00:35
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Sedisp posted:SInce Burst spells don't go on the stack if an opponent say single combats you then passes to you can you play a burst spell then pass disallowing them to play a burst spell in response? Everyone has the option of responding to their own fast and slow spells before their opponent
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May 7, 2020 00:53
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kingcobweb posted:Everyone has the option of responding to their own fast and slow spells before their opponent Right but Sedisp is asking if they get a chance to play another burst spell after they pass to you and you play a burst spell and pass, which is a no. Bursts don't create a new priority window.
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May 7, 2020 00:57
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goferchan posted:Right but Sedisp is asking if they get a chance to play another burst spell after they pass to you and you play a burst spell and pass, which is a no. Bursts don't create a new priority window. They do in combat- combat has different rules for spell priority for some reason
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May 7, 2020 01:23
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kingcobweb posted:They do in combat- combat has different rules for spell priority for some reason
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May 7, 2020 01:43
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I lied making fiora invincible and winning comes up alot apparently.
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May 7, 2020 02:11
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Yeah sorry I forgot burst spells in my explanation, doing anything except passing created a new priority window even if there's nothing to respond to. Hence burst pass letting your opponent play a slow
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May 7, 2020 02:27
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What's a good site for figuring some starter+ decks going forward? I've been making GBS threads around with Demacia/Frost without spending wilds/currency but Silver II is proving to be a bit of a hurdle.
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May 7, 2020 02:35
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The differences are taking some getting used to (the fact that you can’t play fast spells that copy themselves in combat but you can play bursts that copy themselves lost me a game because I didn’t understand) but overall I am glad for the slightly less frequent priority stacking because it leads to faster games. And the mind games about when in your turn you attack and when to save up mana are totally different here and pretty cool.
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May 7, 2020 02:38
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PJOmega posted:What's a good site for figuring some starter+ decks going forward? I've been making GBS threads around with Demacia/Frost without spending wilds/currency but Silver II is proving to be a bit of a hurdle. Swim is both underrated as a good person to watch for understanding the game at a deep level (he explains what goes into his lines constantly) and generally making good content for newbies as well. https://youtu.be/2QknT5vfp5s Good video for very lean collections.
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May 7, 2020 03:07
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ShaneB posted:Swim is both underrated as a good person to watch for understanding the game at a deep level (he explains what goes into his lines constantly) and generally making good content for newbies as well. Added to the OP.
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May 7, 2020 03:14
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