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Oh geez, just started where I left off in Umineko chapter 7 and immediately Will has figured out who killed Beatrice. Guess I should put out my thoughts: I know that Shannon = Kanon = Beatrice, so from that, I can extract 3 scenarios
Of those scenarios, I believe it to be the first. Then, who discovered this? I assume Battler, whom the personality was constructed for. The rest of the family had been fooled for years, so it seems unlikely that one of them would discover it at the time. And given the funeral has everyone other than Battler, who don't know anything about it, it seems obvious that it is signaling that it is Battler. Let's see if I am right. Edit: Lion????  Edit 2: Wait, maybe it make sense if ShaKa in this world is ShaKaLio since I haven't seen them in the room together I think. Edit 3: Oh, where I think its going is that Lion being alive ensures that ShaKa never goes ShaKaBea. Why is this? Maybe because Maria has a better home environment? Maybe a change with Battler? A change with Kinzo? A change with ShaKa? Edit 4: Oh, I think I know! With her born, Natsuhi never has to raise the child, and thus never throws it off the cliff. Is that what would become Battler? That would make sense. Edit 5: Okay, going to call it now, before it is said. Lion is Beatrice the second's daughter. Edit 6: Oh, I just realized how incestuous this is... shivers Edit 7: I didn't even realize that Lion's gender was being kept ambiguous. I always just thought of Lion as a she. Edit 8: Okay, before the final reveal, ShaKaBea is the baby that was dropped by Natsuhi, who survived. I've already given the "howdunnit" before. The "why dunnit" is harder. I know that it has to do at least partly with love for Battler, whom the personality was created for. Notice in game 1, the kids aren't killed until the very end. In game 2, Jessica is killed as Kanon is "killed," as George is with Shannon. In game 3, the kids live until the end again, except Maria who is killed with Rosa. In game 4, the order isn't clear. I think ShaBea also has a grudge against the adults of the Ushromiya family and the servants. Natsuhi, who through them off the cliff. Krauss, by association. Rosa, who mistreated Maria. I don't remember, but I think it can be inferred that Kyrie might have something to do with Battler's mom's (at least the one that raised him) death. Rudolph for causing the situation in the first place. Eva, who constantly interfered with their interest in George. Hideyoshi by association. Gohda also treated them poorly. Nanjo for not saving their grandmother Beatrice during birth. Genji and Kumusawa for either not telling them of their birth, and possibly being involved in being handed over to Natsuhi in the first place. But compounded with that, is that the adults would need to be dead for them to get into a relationship with any of the children. Hence why they all needed to die. In particular, they wanted to be in a relationship with Battler. The kids get killed from reaction. When George doesn't see Shannon's corpse, and figures out that they killed Hideyoshi, he attacks. Maria tries to save her mother. And various retaliations that are hard to tell in the 4th game. Okay, let's see how far off this is. Actually, I'm gonna need to stop here for today. Tomorrow I should hopefully get to start chapter 1 of the play MegaZeroX fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Apr 7, 2020 |
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Apr 7, 2020 18:18
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 22:18 |
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Okay today isn't the "tomorrow" of yesterday but I'm back to sta- Lucifer is based on an actual servant!? Edit: Looks like they all are. Makes some sense that they would be demons from Purgatory since they seem to be bullying ShaKaBea (oh please let me have an actual name soon) Edit: 2 Wait, what? Shannon is there? I didn't expect this to have this many edits so fast... Edit 3: Hmm, am just at the point where Natsuhi and Krauss are talking on stage, but I'm guessing that the Shannon we see is just the imaginary friend of Kanon effectively at the moment. They are imagining a comforting figure. Like Ange did. Edit 4: Okay, I at least have the name Yasuda now Edit 5: And Shannon's non-existance is confirmed with Yasuda having their own room Edit 6: Not relevant yet, but I just realized that George and Jessica are Yasuda's nephew/niece respectively. And presuming there is the Beatrice thing with Battler, that's also... Well, given in game chapter divisions, this seems like a handy way to break up my general reading habits of an hour or so at a time. I think I'll be back in 2 days ish? But who knows if I can be trusted? MegaZeroX fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Apr 13, 2020 |
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Apr 13, 2020 02:10
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It’s hard to respond to much when you’re at this point of the story but I’m enjoying your Umineko diary revelations
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Apr 13, 2020 03:43
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https://twitter.com/MangaGamer/status/1249187703205265415?s=20 Woo hoo, May 14th release date! Steam page link: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1243670/Higurashi_When_They_Cry_Hou__Ch8_Matsuribayashi/
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Apr 16, 2020 15:23
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After reading Umineko 1-4 10 years ago when they were the only things translated, then 5-7 one at a time in Japanese as they came out, I just now finally got around to replaying them all, doing episode 8, and finishing the series. My thoughts: (umineko 8 spoilers, obviously) I had enough knowledge to know roughly what was happening for stuff, though there was still a few things I was sketchy on, like the lavish presentation of game 2 twilight 1 or exactly who was or wasn't an accomplice for each game. Especially game 4, since it was hard to say whether a minimum or a maximum of people were accomplices. Overall I liked 8, even if I generally preferred the non-meta storylines to the meta ones, and 8 was almost entirely meta. I like Ange as a character, but a lot of the main story beats towards the end were things I had kind of predicted 10 years ago back when reading episode 4 so there weren't many surprises there. I had figured something vaguely similar to the Tohya twist were coming, but I do kind of wish they had done it in a somewhat less bittersweet decades-later way. I was a little frustrated that they didn't really expand on much of the stuff introduced in 7, especially Sayo's motive. It's kind of like, they give you all the pieces and then ask you to put them together for yourself. It works well for the whodunnit and howdunnit, but for the whydunnit I feel like it's more important to actually get it spelled out from the culprit's perspective. All the stuff about their gender dysphoria, hatred towards the adults, pressure from George's dreams of children, disgust at their own body, their association with Kinzo, and their continuing the line of incest was only hinted at or touched on extremely briefly in ep 7, and they didn't really go into it at all in ep 8. It's one thing to know that sort of stuff is there, but without being able to absorb the drama of it more explicitly there's a lack of closure. I realize R07 was trying to do a thing about there not being only one truth and trying to encourage the reader to not just read but think, but goddammit I thought for ten years and filled much of a notebook with notes and speculation. Give me some payoff already. Afterwards I read a bunch of the episode 8 manga, including the Confessions of the Golden Witch chapters, and that gave me exactly the sort of closure I was searching for (though I'd still rather get a view of one or more of the games from Sayo's perspective. The process of gaining accomplices and keeping them loyal while more and more people get murdered is kind of only lightly touched upon, when I feel like there's practically a whole game's worth of drama in there. They kind of did it in episode 5, but it wasn't quite the same.) Anyway, good game, would recommend to others, though in general I thought eps 1-3 were where it was the strongest and the answer arcs weren't as good.
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Apr 20, 2020 00:18
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Umineko hour continues - I'm reading it for the first time and finally made it to murder time. I have some questions and I want NO spoilers: - Are you given enough information to piece together the mysteries? ... well only one question because my next would be "is there supernatural stuff going on to expand the ruleset or not" and that uh, obviously don't tell me, that's such a huge question right now. 19>x>18.
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May 3, 2020 22:09
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Pretty hard to actually answer either of those in any meaningful manner without getting into spoilers lol What I will say is that you should be strongly encouraged to try to solve it yourself as you go along, it's a big part of of what makes Umineko fun.
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May 3, 2020 22:41
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And I just hit the first ending of world end syndrome. The hook is pretty good. I’m looking forward to figuring this thing out. Has anyone else in this thread played it?
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May 3, 2020 22:55
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Nate RFB posted:Pretty hard to actually answer either of those in any meaningful manner without getting into spoilers lol Fair enough, thank you for the answer. I'm using this LP to track where I am in an episode - not for spoilers, just to know how long a given episode is - and I'm in Besieged I and holy moly I need the plot to slow down for 3 seconds so I can catch my breath. I didn't realize I'd be reading this for my entire afternoon!
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May 3, 2020 23:13
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Things I expected from Umineko: not that 
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May 4, 2020 00:36
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Umineko was originally released sequentially and the community worked most of it out before the answers were revealed.
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May 4, 2020 02:07
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though the third chapter was, i think, rewritten to be "easier" after the author was concerned about the confused reactions to chapters 1/2 which ended up fine because chapter 3 rules
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May 4, 2020 15:30
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Ever since quarantine started up in a lot of places I've seen about six Umineko liveblogs on twitter and a few Higurashi and Ciconia ones. I did not expect this to be a WTC-reading golden age, but I love liveblogs, so I'll take it.
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May 4, 2020 15:40
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Bakanogami posted:After reading Umineko 1-4 10 years ago when they were the only things translated, then 5-7 one at a time in Japanese as they came out, I just now finally got around to replaying them all, doing episode 8, and finishing the series. extremely obvious spoilers i've heard stuff about Kyrie/Krauss being the main accomplices to 4, but tbh that's the one game where the "main accomplice" seems to matter less than the others. The others are fairly easy, Eva/Hideyoshi for 1, Rosa and Gohda for 2, Rudolf/Natty for 3 (with Eva as the secondary culprit). That last one is slightly trickier but Natushi is significantly calmer about the servant disappearance than she was in the first game, and she and Rudolf also make sure the closed room chain starts with the correct room. One interesting thing that I didn't realize until it was pointed out to me is that most of the accomplices (other than Genji, and Nanjo) seem to think it's all a fake murder game. It's subtle but there's stuff like a concerned Hideyoshi questioning Nanjo hard after the body reveal in game 1, characters being hesitant to search bodies (especially if they're women), and Eva in game 1 seeming to illicitly give Battler hints to "win" the game (which is arguably also Beatrice trying to get Battler more interested in solving the game before she appears "in person" starting game 2.) Also Gohda is an accomplice in 2 and keep an eye on him because he is hilariously bad at lying under pressure. I think like half his "Kanon totally came back to life" lines are with his "nervous smile" expression e) i did a reread of a few bits a short while ago and one of my favorite "r07 you rear end in a top hat" moments was the intro to chapter 7 (full game spoilers again) A servant can't be the murderer! You should have investigated the second wife and her lover! Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 15:58 on May 4, 2020 |
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May 4, 2020 15:42
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https://twitter.com/FloPerfecto/status/1255806660880347136
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May 4, 2020 17:16
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cropoval posted:Ever since quarantine started up in a lot of places I've seen about six Umineko liveblogs on twitter and a few Higurashi and Ciconia ones. I did not expect this to be a WTC-reading golden age, but I love liveblogs, so I'll take it. There must be something in the water - I didn't intend to plow through the incredibly slow opening yesterday, but I fired it up on a whim and suddenly my playtime went from 2 hours to 9 and send help I can't decide if I believe in witches or not!
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May 4, 2020 17:25
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Feels Villeneuve posted:extremely obvious spoilers I was an Umineko fan when it was still releasing in Japan and this is actually the best summary I've seen of the accomplice theory, because whenever I'd see it in other places it'd dissolve into a debate about what the "true" answer is (yes people are still doing that a decade later). Because of that I was never able to be sure about a lot of this, so thank you- I'm going to try to reread Umineko sometime in the next year, after a proper Higurashi read and maybe Higanbana/Rose Guns Days, so this will be nice to keep in mind. StrixNebulosa posted:There must be something in the water - I didn't intend to plow through the incredibly slow opening yesterday, but I fired it up on a whim and suddenly my playtime went from 2 hours to 9 and send help I can't decide if I believe in witches or not! That's the Umineko experience, welcome. I think staying inside is letting a lot of people finally find the time to read these games, so you're not alone. I think doing the liveblogs/reading and commenting on them is becoming kind of a nice communal online experience for people. Speaking of which- a bunch of Japanese fans are doing an online thing on 5/6 to replace 07th Party (a live meetup 07th Expansion usually does every year), and Ryukishi and Remotaro (Ciconia's colorist) made a booklet with a short story and character design tidbits in it. I won't understand any of it unless someone translates, but it looks like fun.
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May 4, 2020 20:14
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While we're at it, whenever there's an English translation available, I'd highly recommend the two bonus stories that were packaged in with the Umineko Saku version of the game, Our Confession and Last Note of the Golden Witch. They provided what I really wanted, namely (spoilers for Our Confession)a look at a set of murders from the culprit's point of view (complete with sprite of Beatrice with a rifle!), showing how they gathered and manipulated accomplices, and clarifying how some of the harder murders were done, like Shannon's death in eps 2 and 4 and (Last Note of the Golden Witch spoilers)a glimpse at an actual "happy" route where nobody dies, and feeding into the implication that it was only due to Bern/Lambda's intervention that Beatrice became a witch and the murders occurred at all that they hinted at in episode 6.
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May 5, 2020 00:31
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My Twitter feed was buzzing this morning about a controversy* over a line in The House in Fata Morgana's English translation. I got really excited for a moment because I thought this meant there was a new Fata Morgana release! Turns out there isn't one (the incident seems to have been triggered by the Steam sale?? idk don't feel like digging into this) BUT it made me realize I never finished the backstage so actually there is more Fata Morgana for me~ And of course, if you haven't read it yet it's 50% off on Steam right now! * inspired translation choice that broke some fragile male egos
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May 5, 2020 16:30
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It is a profoundly pathetic discussion where even the actual VN developers coming out to say they support the translation has apparently not been enough to stop people harassing all involved. I do like how Novectacle subtly implies that people who are upset didn't even actually read the VN lol.
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May 5, 2020 16:38
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https://twitter.com/KillScottKill/status/1257659022502760449
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May 5, 2020 17:51
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It's cool how all the people screaming about it don't even know what fata morgana is.
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May 5, 2020 18:26
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I didn’t know Jacopo had a Twitter account
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May 5, 2020 19:10
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Anime Avatar Twitter is so much worse than Anime Avatar SA
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May 5, 2020 21:17
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Umineko early episode 3 spoiler opinion: Kinzo is a piece of poo poo.
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May 6, 2020 23:21
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StrixNebulosa posted:Umineko early episode 3 spoiler opinion: Kinzo is a piece of poo poo. wait weren't you on episode one like two days ago 
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May 6, 2020 23:49
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Idk why I bought all the higurashi chapters on gog since I think they go on bigger sales on steam, and it'll be a little bit before ch.8 available on gog. Chaos;Child Committee of Zero patch question: I downloaded the patch and applied it to the game in my steam directory, but it seems like nothing has changed. I've tried launching the game from steam and from the patch launcher. I've also tried reinstalling the game and the patch and the game still looks the same as it does when its unpatched. What should I do to fix this?
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May 7, 2020 00:11
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dmboogie posted:wait weren't you on episode one like two days ago May 3rd: three hours playtime May 6th: 18 hours playtime I'm in the middle of chapter 3 and just finished the first twilight and whaaat the fuuuucckkkk (technical details: original sprites are the superior ones, and I didn't dig up any voice acting patches, it's all vanilla steam version and it's going great, I love this thing)
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May 7, 2020 00:41
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Chapter 3's first twilight is my favorite closed room in all of fiction. It's so elegant in its simplicity.
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May 7, 2020 01:13
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StrixNebulosa posted:May 3rd: three hours playtime The MangaGamer sprites are garbage, taken from some random licensed pachinko game. The PS3 sprites are much better, but there are still lots of original sprite defenders. Either one's valid in my book. The voices, though, are fantastic. Doesn't matter what version's art you're using, the voices honestly add so much to the experience. It might be weird to add voices partway through the game but they're well worth it in my opinion.
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May 7, 2020 07:28
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https://twitter.com/DumbCerb/status/1258042254104702985
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May 7, 2020 12:00
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The MangaGamer sprites are garbage, taken from some random licensed pachinko game. The PS3 sprites are much better, but there are still lots of original sprite defenders. Either one's valid in my book. The voices, though, are fantastic. Doesn't matter what version's art you're using, the voices honestly add so much to the experience. It might be weird to add voices partway through the game but they're well worth it in my opinion. I watched some of the LP clips of them and felt it wasn't worth the effort, but this isn't to say the voices are bad, just that I'm good as is. It also means I can read faster, and I need ANSWERS.
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May 7, 2020 12:01
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New problem with reading Umineko: this music track is too baller, I cannot continue the story until I've enjoyed it thoroughly e: Ronove. 
StrixNebulosa fucked around with this message at 18:22 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 18:18
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Even after you finish Umineko listening to the music on youtube will last a lifetime!
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May 7, 2020 18:19
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Just finished my first route in Worldend Syndrome. Saya My general thoughts so far is that I like the mystery hooks are quite good and really spike the tension since they have been sparsely used so far, and it really feels like early Higurashi. That said, at the end of the route, when they were doing the Obon festival romance scene I had a stray thought that “hey isn’t this a murder mystery game specifically?” and like 3 minutes later the bad guy showed up and the MC got stabbed and I was very amused since in the back of my mind I was waiting for that shoe to drop. Ultimately I am glad I finally got around to this, it seems like it’s been fairly overlooked and I think it’s worth a shot. It does interesting things mechanically.
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May 8, 2020 06:00
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Umineko mid/late episode 3 spoiler commentary: Umineko slowly shifting to become a game that's less about solving murders and more about examining the cycle of abuse and examining what it means to be a bully, and helping someone grow out of that.... well I'm emotional and I love this new direction
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May 8, 2020 16:57
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hostess with the Moltres posted:Chaos;Child Committee of Zero patch question: I downloaded the patch and applied it to the game in my steam directory, but it seems like nothing has changed. I've tried launching the game from steam and from the patch launcher. I've also tried reinstalling the game and the patch and the game still looks the same as it does when its unpatched. What should I do to fix this?
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May 8, 2020 20:20
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Umineko: I fell for it. I 100%, completely fell for it. I'm still trying to find my way back to the truth. Wow.
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May 9, 2020 02:06
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ahaha.wav
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May 9, 2020 02:22
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Umineko start of ep 4 spoiler talk, and reflection on the earlier episodes: This is one of the first works of fiction to make me think I was better at this kind of mystery-solving puzzle. As much as I enjoy reading Ellery Queen and such, I never solve them, and I haven't the patience for riddles. Umineko makes me regret that. For example, the Witch's Epitaph. I understand that it's a "bonus" ultra-hard riddle meant for the community to solve, but I want to poke at it myself - and yet I'm barely getting anywhere. Like... here's my lines of thought: sweetfish, not literal fish. Knowing they go to the ocean and return is important, apparently. This ties in with how the gold has to be hidden in Rokkenjima. So I might be thinking too literally, but it feels like the "door" should be... you go out to the beach on the island, and there are... two on a shore? Already I'm lost, and I know I'm missing something. We're not given big geographical clues so it has to be more metaphorical, but I'm just totally lost. So let's move onto the murders. I operate under two rules: 1) Witch didn't do it. 2) Battler didn't do it. (No motive as of the beginning of ep 4) Episode one murders: The survivors were (almost) Natsuhi and the kids. This immediately lands us in a difficult position, because - well, down the list: Natsuhi: The most plausible up until the end. She loves Krauss, but he's an rear end in a top hat to her. No one else in the family accepts her as the head/leader of the family, nor do they believe that Kinzo said nice things to her. (As they should, that moment is still a shocker to me because everything we learn about Kinzo says that he's a gigantic rear end in a top hat) It edges too close to insanity to entirely work, but the concept of her killing the entire family (except the kids) so she could be the true head and have the wealth seems... well, about as plausible as Eva killing everyone in ep 3. Insane, but scarily workable. She got the gun and ONLY one gun when there were more and she could have armed the other adults, she was the one to force the servants out of the safe room by blaming it on that letter, and while I can't explain how she did the murders, her motives make the most sense. .... Except, y'know, shot to death before the kids died, and the game informs us that the kids died after she did. George: Shannon died on the first twilight. He had to ask what was on her hand. Extremely difficult to act out that kind of grief convincingly. Then his own parents were killed, and in an elaborate way. If Shannon had survived, I could have worked out something like "got the primary obstacles to his happiness with shannon out of the way" but she's dead, so we're at a stop. The only motives left are greed and insanity - the greed makes no sense without Shannon, and insanity is kind of an argument similar to saying the Witch did it. Jessica: Kanon died, and her parents. It's similar to George but with more nuance, too - if I remember right, Kanon recognized his murderer and spoke to them in a way that I can't imagine him talking to Jessica to. Like, he's a broken kid who's been raised to think of himself as subhuman, but could he defy Jessica like he did the murderer? Doesn't line up with his character. Plus, Jessica's character has been shown that she's impulsive and emotional and I also cannot imagine her setting up any of it, especially the locked room mystery with Hideyoshi and Eva. Maria: I hate suspecting a kid, but since I must: she doesn't have the bodily strength for the murders, and I cannot imagine her luring six adults to the gardening shed as that would've been passed onto Rosa, so to speak? Like... I GUESS she could have pulled something with "I found gold uuu uuuu" but ehhh. And what motive? Even though she believes in witches and was chosen as the <Messenger>, it's tough to think of her kil.... oh. Oh jeez it really isn't because she 100% believes that the Golden Land could fix everything. oh god it even makes sense for her to be dead at the end because she could commit suicide happily to go there. I hate that this is plausible! She could have dropped that letter off to make Natsuhi chase her out with the other victims. As for how she got the head ring, it's shown that Kinzo literally drops it out the window to start the game, and Maria was outside "looking for her rose" for more than enough time to set stuff up!conclusion: Maria did it? Or Natsuhi did, and Maria finished it all off for the sake of the Golden Land? (PS Oh god Maria's final TIP entry claims she's Missing and then gives Maria's creepy laugh OH GOD) (Note that I am not looking for mechanics but motives, as I have no loving clue how the locked room was pulled off.) Episode 2: /immediately throws all of the anime lightsaber battles in the trash, because if there are no surviving witnesses to the nonsense it don't count, and/or you could argue about drugs or a light show or something stupid like that Same deal, survivors are: Kinzo, Battler, Genji, Rosa and Maria. I'm led to a troubling thought - without a survivor, I wonder if that means the murderer believes in the Golden Land theory? As in, to make this work at the end they have to kill the survivors and themselves to go to the Golden Land. Eva obviously didn't in ep 3, so when she made it she didn't need to kill herself, only witnesses. If this theory is true, then it immediately makes Kinzo and Genji the biggest suspects for obvious reasons. Kinzo: Crazy old man spent the entire time locked up in his study, basically. Or at least that's his alibi. For the sake of the witch, it could work that he was doing the murders, or otherwise orchestrating them via Genji. The flaw here is, it seems like he believes in magic and wouldn't "need" to do them? It's hard to imagine him doing the chapel murders or the jessica/kanon stuff, especially given how little he paid attention (seemingly) to his kids. I personally don't think he did it. Genji: I've got my eyes on you, old man. Has the knowledge, the motive, and the means. Knowledge: has been watching everyone as the butler, obviously. Knows where all the keys and secret spots are. Motive: making his beloved master's roulette/ritual play out. This is a bit shaky, but his ultimate "dream" is to rest, which is... odd. Could be something as mundane as "has been serving these nutjobs forever and wants to retire". And finally the means - I need to reread this episode but he's basically left alone at points, and could easily slip away and do things. Plus, y'know, strong old man who knows where all the weapons are. Rosa: While there are vague motives - snapped, couldn't put up with the abuse at the hands of her family, smart enough to figure out where the gold is - I just don't see it. I really don't see it. Why not kill Kinzo too? Why follow the format of the ritual? She's a mother, I can't see her killing more children willy-nilly. I could be wrong, but a gut feeling is stopping me from pursuing this. Maria: If I assume that she did the first one, it's tough to think she did it again, and gut feeling prevents me from following this one. There is a hole - if Genji did it, why did he kill out of order? As a butler, wouldn't he want to do things properly? Which points to Rosa, but again, why would she bother at all? So I land back at Genji, who feels... I don't know, there was so much focus on the servants in this one for thematic reasons I want him to have done it. I know, not logical, I'm not thinking, but shut up. Episode 3: I wanted... I wanted Beatrice to be helpful and good. I wanted this to be a story about learning to break abusive cycles in big over the top anime ways. But it isn't, not yet. (?) Sigh. Anyways, the episode basically confirms that Eva did it, gives her a motive, and to make up for solving that it throws you the locked room circle, which is brilliant. Ronove outdid himself in setting it up. I saw theories tossed around that Shannon or Kanon was an accomplice to help set it up, and that they got around the red text by using their true names, BUT I feel that breaks the spirit of the Red Text and doesn't make much sense besides. Even if we go with "old mackerel lady did it and had another name" that's still a motive question, because why suicide? Why? Something feels wrong about this puzzle and I haven't figured it out. ... Phew, god, didn't expect to do that! I hope I can do it for ep 4, but no idea. Overall I'm really invested in this dang game and I want everyone to survive and live healthier lives. Except for Kinzo.
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May 9, 2020 16:04
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