Revelation 2-13 posted:

Since you bring it up. Climate change and voter suppression. Trump is actively working against doing anything with regards to climate change. No, it's worse even, he is literally stopping people from trying to fight, or inform about, climate change. On voter suppression, sure, dems don't actually give a poo poo unless it's in their favor, and they'll even do their own, which is loving awful, but trump/republicans are actively working super against things like mail-voting and for having hard voter-ID laws etc. Yes, I know about the new york primary, but c'mon it's like drop in in a tiny bucket compared to the pacific spanning tsunami of the trump administration and republicans on voter suppression. Yes, biden is pretty bad on these too, or at least more of a "status quo" idiot, but those two things will definitely be worse under trump. To be honest, if you don't think so you are so divorced from reality that there really isn't any point to talking about it, and we can just all just continue to post parallel to each other. I fully accept that that's not enough for some people to vote for one over the other.

Gumball Gumption posted:

I'm an idiot and can't read dates. But here, have info on Obama's drone strikes. https://www.cfr.org/blog/obamas-final-drone-strike-data

ManBoyChef posted:

We have been talking a lot about military interventions that Biden has backed. What about all the times he backed sanctions on countries like Iran and Venezuela? Don't those also kill people and prevent them from getting the medications and food they need?

Condiv posted:

And Biden’s lying about doing anything worthwhile on climate change.

So on one hand we have a guy that libs will gladly criticize as not doing enough on climate change, and on the other hand we have a guy that libs will pretend is doing enough on climate change. I’d rather libs actually continue thinking climate change is an issue instead of going back to pretending it’s being addressed like they did during obama thanks

As for voter suppression, did you miss dems literally cancelling an election for their own gain? Cause the thread sure hasn’t

Unoriginal Name posted:

yes but were they the bad people

How are u posted:

Who in the world is arguing that Joe Biden would "do enough" on climate change? Everybody making a climate change argument for voting for Biden instead of Trump is arguing that Biden will be better than Trump, who is actively working to make things worse and denies that climate change is happening.

The people who argue that Joe Biden's climate plan is enough and cool and good and going to save us exist only in your head, unless you can start quoting them here.

Condiv posted:

And Biden’s lying about doing anything worthwhile on climate change.

So on one hand we have a guy that libs will gladly criticize as not doing enough on climate change, and on the other hand we have a guy that libs will pretend is doing enough on climate change. I’d rather libs actually continue thinking climate change is an issue instead of going back to pretending it’s being addressed like they did during obama thanks

As for voter suppression, did you miss dems literally cancelling an election for their own gain? Cause the thread sure hasn’t

Araenna posted:

so all the poo poo the minorities you're arguing with here are facing under both trump and biden

Revelation 2-13 posted:

You could just say that you think trump is good and cool and worth your vote on his own merits. You don't have to go this roundabout way over to pretending it's a protest vote or whatever.

e: ^^^ you too

Revelation 2-13 posted:

You could just say that you think trump is good and cool and worth your vote on his own merits. You don't have to go this roundabout way over to pretending it's a protest vote or whatever.

e: ^^^ you too

Revelation 2-13 posted:

Since you bring it up. Climate change and voter suppression. Trump is actively working against doing anything with regards to climate change. No, it's worse even, he is literally stopping people from trying to fight, or inform about, climate change. On voter suppression, sure, dems don't actually give a poo poo unless it's in their favor, and they'll even do their own, which is loving awful, but trump/republicans are actively working super against things like mail-voting and for having hard voter-ID laws etc. Yes, I know about the new york primary, but c'mon it's like drop in in a tiny bucket compared to the pacific spanning tsunami of the trump administration and republicans on voter suppression. Yes, biden is pretty bad on these too, or at least more of a "status quo" idiot, but those two things will definitely be worse under trump. To be honest, if you don't think so you are so divorced from reality that there really isn't any point to talking about it, and we can just all just continue to post parallel to each other. I fully accept that that's not enough for some people to vote for one over the other.

Revelation 2-13 posted:

You could just say that you think trump is good and cool and worth your vote on his own merits. You don't have to go this roundabout way over to pretending it's a protest vote or whatever.

e: ^^^ you too

How are u posted:

Who in the world is arguing that Joe Biden would "do enough" on climate change?

quote:

Everybody making a climate change argument for voting for Biden instead of Trump is arguing that Biden will be better than Trump, who is actively working to make things worse and denies that climate change is happening.

quote:

The people who argue that Joe Biden's climate plan is enough and cool and good and going to save us exist only in your head, unless you can start quoting them here.

Revelation 2-13 posted:

You could just say that you think trump is good and cool and worth your vote on his own merits. You don't have to go this roundabout way over to pretending it's a protest vote or whatever.

e: ^^^ you too

Trabisnikof posted:

This is yet again you refusing to actually respond to people’s arguments and instead replace them with your own straw man.

What’s the point of trying to discuss things with you if you refuse to actually respond to people’s arguments?

Mellow Seas posted:

OK, that's fair. It does, however, say that the the mass murder has to be the intent of the military action. I don't think it was.

quote:

It was a time of great and exalting excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and spluttering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spread of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory with stirred the deepest deeps of their hearts, and which they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached devotion to flag and country, and invoked the God of Battles beseeching His aid in our good cause in outpourings of fervid eloquence which moved every listener.

It was indeed a glad and gracious time, and the half dozen rash spirits that ventured to disapprove of the war and cast a doubt upon its righteousness straightway got such a stern and angry warning that for their personal safety’s sake they quickly shrank out of sight and offended no more in that way.

Sunday morning came — next day the battalions would leave for the front; the church was filled; the volunteers were there, their young faces alight with martial dreams — visions of the stern advance, the gathering momentum, the rushing charge, the flashing sabers, the flight of the foe, the tumult, the enveloping smoke, the fierce pursuit, the surrender!

Then home from the war, bronzed heroes, welcomed, adored, submerged in golden seas of glory! With the volunteers sat their dear ones, proud, happy, and envied by the neighbors and friends who had no sons and brothers to send forth to the field of honor, there to win for the flag, or, failing, die the noblest of noble deaths. The service proceeded; a war chapter from the Old Testament was read; the first prayer was said; it was followed by an organ burst that shook the building, and with one impulse the house rose, with glowing eyes and beating hearts, and poured out that tremendous invocation:

God the all-terrible! Thou who ordainest,
Thunder thy clarion and lightning thy sword!

Then came the “long” prayer. None could remember the like of it for passionate pleading and moving and beautiful language. The burden of its supplication was, that an ever-merciful and benignant Father of us all would watch over our noble young soldiers, and aid, comfort, and encourage them in their patriotic work; bless them, shield them in the day of battle and the hour of peril, bear them in His mighty hand, make them strong and confident, invincible in the bloody onset; help them crush the foe, grant to them and to their flag and country imperishable honor and glory —

An aged stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle, his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to ghastliness. With all eyes following him and wondering, he made his silent way; without pausing, he ascended to the preacher’s side and stood there waiting. With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in fervent appeal, “Bless our arms, grant us the victory, O Lord and God, Father and Protector of our land and flag!”

The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside — which the startled minister did — and took his place. During some moments he surveyed the spellbound audience with solemn eyes, in which burned an uncanny light; then in a deep voice he said:

“I come from the Throne — bearing a message from Almighty God!” The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention. “He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will grant it if such be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import — that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of — except he pause and think. “God’s servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two — one uttered, and the other not. Both have reached the ear of Him who heareth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this — keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon your neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain on your crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse on some neighbor’s crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.

“You have heard your servant’s prayer — the uttered part of it. I am commissioned by God to put into words the other part of it — that part which the pastor — and also you in your hearts — fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard the words ‘Grant us the victory, O Lord our God!’ That is sufficient. The whole of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory — must follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!

“Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth into battle — be Thou near them! With them — in spirit — we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended in the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames in summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it —

For our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimmage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet!
We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.

(After a pause.) “Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits.”

—

It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.

Revelation 2-13 posted:

No, either you can't read, or this is you pretending that I don't respond to peoples arguments for some dumb reason. I've responded plenty. I've been studiously ignoring you though, and reasonably so I think.

Trabisnikof posted:

The proof that Biden will turn the Democratic Party into a climate denialist party is this thread where pro-biden people keep denying the science in SR15 on the grounds that “well actually Greenpeace have Biden a B so SR15 is wrong about the scale and scope of needed change.”

Or that some Op-Ed cancels out the peer reviewed work of the IPCC. That’s how the Democratic Party joins the Republican Party on climate.

Trabisnikof posted:

Then go ahead and show how logically if someone says Biden is bad it must mean they believe Trump is good.

Revelation 2-13 posted:

I haven't said that if you think Biden is bad they believe trump is good. This is something your conjured up by own weird delusions. I assume you know this, and that's the reason why you're not quoting me saying anything remotely like that. I've responded in this way to people who literally said it was better if trump was president because then "libs" would still think climate change was a problem, and that "they'd rather have trump".

Revelation 2-13 posted:

I haven't said that if you think Biden is bad they believe trump is good. This is something your conjured up by own weird delusions. I assume you know this, and that's the reason why you're not quoting me saying anything remotely like that.

Revelation 2-13 posted:

You could just say that you think trump is good and cool and worth your vote on his own merits. You don't have to go this roundabout way over to pretending it's a protest vote or whatever.

e: ^^^ you too

Revelation 2-13 posted:

I haven't said that if you think Biden is bad they believe trump is good. This is something your conjured up by own weird delusions. I assume you know this, and that's the reason why you're not quoting me saying anything remotely like that. I've responded in this way to people who literally said it was better if trump was president because then "libs" would still think climate change was a problem, and that "they'd rather have trump".

Revelation 2-13 posted:

You could just say that you think trump is good and cool and worth your vote on his own merits. You don't have to go this roundabout way over to pretending it's a protest vote or whatever.

e: ^^^ you too

Cpt_Obvious posted:

Trabisnikof posted:

Here you go:


People are saying that climate outcomes might be worse under Biden because he’ll make the Democratic Party into a climate denialist party and your response was “just say you think trump is good and cool”.

That’s an obvious strawman to the rest of us.

Revelation 2-13 posted:

I'm literally responding to someone who said they'd rather have trump, which is literally what my quote is. How are you this dense? Oh, it's performative denseness, I get it.

Revelation 2-13 posted:

I'm literally responding to someone who said they'd rather have trump, which is literally what my quote is. How are you this dense? Oh, it's performative denseness, I get it.

i got owned posted:

Don't vote for any rapists, imo. Sorry if that's a little far out for some of the posters in this thread.

How are u posted:

I'm going to go ahead and listen to every climate scientist and climate activist when it comes to who would be the best choice for climate in November.

Would absolutely love to see any accelerationist quote a climate scientist who agrees.

Bishyaler posted:

It amazing that people have already forgot that voting records and campaign donation sources mean infinitely more than campaign promises; as if we didn't just watch that play out with Obama and the majority of the Democratic candidates. Surely the party that bent over backwards to ratfuck the most progressive candidate will push progressive policy once the DNC favorite life-long conservative is in office. How gullible are establishment Democrats?