CORONAting a champion: voiding the season to own the Livs

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Ray Parlour > CORONAting a champion: voiding the season to own the Livs

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How do we finish this season
	Award the title now
	No title at all
	Playoff tournament
	Finish the season at a later date
	Dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed

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BWV: Feb 24, 2005

Jose posted:

psg are going to be ligue 1 champions now the season is cancelled

Pretty sure that happened in the fall.

# ? Apr 30, 2020 15:07

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 14:37

Shaman Tank Spec: Dec 26, 2003; *blep*

Bundy, can you do the needful? "Without relegation, what's the point of restarting?"

(obv. money)

https://theathletic.com/1792535/2020/05/05/premier-league-relegation-sky-bt-neutral-venues/

# ? May 5, 2020 10:36

Weedle: May 31, 2006

not op but

quote:

For those sides languishing at the foot of the Premier League table, a global pandemic has produced a new catchphrase: sporting integrity. By altering the conditions of the Premier League campaign, they argue, the competition is so irrevocably transformed that it would be unfair to enforce relegation.

On Friday, the government and Premier League officials presented top-flight clubs with the principles of Project Restart. The Premier League wants to reconvene for fixtures by June 12, in line with an easing of social distancing measures across many industries over the next five weeks.

In the case of the Premier League, this will significantly alter the conditions of the competition. Unlike the first 29 rounds of the campaign, the final nine rounds of the season will not be played in front of supporters. This, we had been told, represented a change most clubs could accept, particularly as it seems likely that broadcasters will televise every remaining match live.

Yet on Friday, a new struggle emerged. The police and the Sports Ground Safety Authority award licences to stadiums and they have decided that it is unfeasible, amid the pandemic, for every Premier League team to be able to host games. For example, it is felt that some stadia pose a risk of crowds gathering outside them in the event of important fixtures, while staging games at some grounds in residential areas could risk further spreading the virus.

As such, football�s restart is now conditional on the removal of home and away fixtures, meaning that the remaining games are all neutral. Where possible, the Premier League will seek to ensure similar travel time for the two clubs involved. And here we come to �sporting integrity.�

Brighton & Hove Albion�s chief executive Paul Barber argued, �At this critical point in the season, playing matches in neutral venues has, in our view, potential to have a material effect on the integrity of the competition. The disadvantages of us not playing the league�s top teams in our home stadium and in familiar surroundings, even with 27,000 Albion fans very unlikely to be present at the Amex, are very obvious.

�Clearly, we must accept there may also be some benefit from playing our remaining four away matches at neutral venues but the fixture list simply isn�t equally balanced at this stage of the season, and we didn�t play our first 29 matches of the season in this way. So, in our opinion one thing doesn�t cancel out the other.�

Brighton�s position should gain some sympathy. Graham Potter�s team have Arsenal, Manchester City, Manchester United and Liverpool among four of their final five home league fixtures and their chances, they argue, are diminished by playing away from their home stadium.

Other clubs battling relegation will also crave home comforts in a relegation scrap. According to one executive, up to 10 clubs feel this way, yet a Premier League source on Monday morning cautioned against this view. As has become the norm, these all-club Premier League meetings are followed by posturings and briefings to the media by executives minded to further their own club�s interests, both at the top and bottom of the division.

The next stage will be a vote, held in the coming weeks, as to whether to restart with neutral venues, and it is expected that Watford, West Ham United, Norwich City and Aston Villa would set themselves against the proposal. A Premier League vote on a rule-change requires a majority of at least 14-6 in favour of a decision and this leaves Project Restart appearing highly vulnerable.

It is of course true that this is an imperfect solution. Should this plan happen, we will see historic fixtures, such as the Merseyside or north London derbies, taking place outside of their usual habitat. This will feel peculiar and soulless. There are legitimate coaching grievances.

When Tottenham Hotspur, for example, were constructing their new stadium, they played home Champions League matches at Wembley while playing home matches at the old White Hart Lane. Yet the pitch there was shorter and narrower in dimensions compared to Wembley and manager Mauricio Pochettino needed to devise new training drills and patterns of play to suit the differing conditions. This correlated with a downturn in results. Yet we often hear how coaches work around the clock to be a step ahead, and they will all be in the same boat, so here is their chance to shine.

Still, the lower-table clubs have expressed one way they can be won over to voting in favour of the plan: if the threat of relegation is removed altogether.

This would, of course, suit their interests to a tee. Yet in seeking �integrity�, it would in fact be undermined. At the start of the campaign, every club knew a title would be won, four clubs would qualify for the Champions League, at least two would qualify for the Europa League and three would be relegated. The competitive spirit of the division rests on these targets and these fears. Can it really be right, therefore, to award a title or decide European placings, but, at the same time, remove relegation from the fray? There must, surely, be consistency within the same division.

After all, relative to the size of the respective businesses, is it truly a stretch to say that missing out on European football is less damaging to Tottenham, Arsenal or Manchester United than relegation may be to Norwich or Aston Villa?

Since Sir Alex Ferguson retired from United in 2013, the club has qualified through its league placing for the Champions League only twice and it is no exaggeration to say that every year out of the elite makes it more difficult to return. Leicester City, meanwhile, sit third in the Premier League and on the cusp of a return to the Champions League after a three-year absence. What impact may Champions League qualification have on their ability to retain star talent such as James Maddison and attract new signings whenever the next transfer window comes around?

Yet Leicester are cautious. They are eight points clear of United in fifth but had won only two of their previous eight fixtures before the season was suspended. Should that form continue in the final nine games and Leicester fall out of the top four, is it just their results that should have grave financial consequences, while an Aston Villa or Norwich are spared the economic cost of relegation?

The self-interest exists at every level. Liverpool would, of course, like to lift the title they deserve. Those chasing Europe would like the opportunity to compete for places. Those battling relegation seek survival. At Premier League HQ, they are aware of clubs in mid-table whose owners are keen to resume as soon as competitive action affords the opportunity to climb the table. Every place up the league means greater prize money at the end of the season.

As we know, every club in the division is deeply dependent on television money coming in, as the top flight knows that the threat of a �762 million rebate hangs over the league. Whether the broadcasters would ever truly press the nuclear button on the Premier League and demand every penny back is another matter entirely.

Sky Sports, for example, knows it needs a strong Premier League for its own long-term commercial success, so it would make little sense to push clubs towards the precipice of financial oblivion.

Yet can the prospect of eliminating relegation really be palatable to Sky and BT Sport in England, not to mention their many overseas broadcast partners? After all, if the television companies are already deprived of the usual atmosphere at a game, should they really be expected to foot the bill when the jeopardy of relegation is also removed from the results?

This was, by consensus, the view television executives were privately expressing on Monday afternoon. Despite the posturing in the media, neither the Premier League centrally nor the broadcasters had been directly contacted over the weekend to discuss the idea of a no-relegation counter-proposal and there is little enthusiasm in either quarter to contemplate the idea.

As one source close to a broadcast partner said, �The clubs want all the money from the broadcasters and all the matches showing but TV will have no fans, no colour and a load of games that don�t matter. We will have Liverpool to win the league � but that�s over after a week. Then it would just be seven weeks to see who finishes fourth � but even then, if Manchester City are booted out of Europe, their place goes to a lower team. The action needs to be competitive.�

The resistance is more likely to come from overseas than at home, where Sky is a long-term partner and has never seen its role as intervening in format changes. There is, however, a harder negotiation to be struck with Sky and BT Sport over proposals to put a selection of games on terrestrial free-to-air television in the UK and YouTube streaming channel.

There are further concerns. Consider, for example, that four of Manchester United�s final seven Premier League fixtures of this campaign are against Bournemouth, Brighton, Aston Villa and West Ham. Those four sides are among a cluster of five teams separated by four points at the foot of the Premier League table.

In ordinary circumstances, as teams rally to a finish, we might expect those sides to discover renewed reservoirs of motivation to challenge United and scrap for their own top-flight survival. Equally, Arsenal, in ninth, still harbour aspirations of European qualification. They end the campaign by facing Aston Villa (away) and then Watford (home).

Can the Premier League claim to have sporting integrity when these fixtures have consequences for one participant but no repercussions for the other?

Then we come to the damage that will be inflicted on the next campaign. If the Premier League does not relegate teams, what becomes of Leeds United and West Bromwich Albion, seven and six points clear respectively of the play-offs in the top two places in the Championship? Are they deprived of their return to the Premier League? The financial implications for Leeds, in particular, would be as momentous, if not more so, than would be the case for any side dropping down to the Championship.

Even if the Premier League then approve a 22-team or 23-team top-flight next season, this, also is fraught by complications. The Athletic is aware of several Premier League clubs very much against the idea of splitting broadcasting income 23 ways next season, as would be the case in an expanded division. There were already concerns that the English football calendar places an excessive burden on players without extra fixtures.

Should the top flight grow in numbers, then the Carabao Cup is mooted as the victim, but can the Premier League really be seen to remove a vital source of income to lower-league clubs, just as those sides are at their most vulnerable?

This is the thing about global pandemics; there is no solution that suits everybody.

It is time, therefore, for a spirit of compromise.

# ? May 5, 2020 14:09

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

lol sure this will work

https://twitter.com/TeleFootball/status/1258100253674389511?s=20

# ? May 7, 2020 11:54

CyberPingu: Sep 15, 2013; If you're not striving to improve, you'll end up going backwards.

Didn't they try that before the lockdown and it didn't work either?

# ? May 7, 2020 11:56

Literally Lewis Hamilton: Feb 22, 2005

What about spit swapping though?

# ? May 7, 2020 12:04

Shrapnig: Jan 21, 2005

Jose posted:

lol sure this will work

https://twitter.com/TeleFootball/status/1258100253674389511?s=20

It's such a short-sighted approach.

Football is a contact sport, banning spitting and celebrating with your teammates isn't going to do anything to prevent the spread of this poo poo.

# ? May 7, 2020 13:08

Weaponized Cum: Aug 31, 2004; This post brought to you by the finest Miami cocaine money can buy ----->

Ban Football imo

# ? May 7, 2020 15:24

blue footed boobie: Sep 14, 2012; UEFA SUPREMACY

This might be a controversial statement, but I hope that they quarantine all the players and then make them play foot at a closed neutral location for my enjoyment like the human chattel that they are.

# ? May 7, 2020 15:30

Mr. Mambold: Feb 13, 2011; Aha. Nice post.

Empty stadiums with piped in crowd noises engineered by Monty Python.

# ? May 7, 2020 15:50

kcer: May 28, 2004; Today is good weather
for an airstrike.

void the season, cowards

# ? May 7, 2020 16:28

sourdough: Apr 30, 2012

Shrapnig posted:

It's such a short-sighted approach.

Football is a contact sport, banning spitting and celebrating with your teammates isn't going to do anything to prevent the spread of this poo poo.

I don't think it's meant to work, it's just so there's something to point to once players start getting sick and say they did all they could to ensure safety

# ? May 7, 2020 16:33

hadji murad: Apr 18, 2006

Mr. Mambold posted:

Empty stadiums with piped in crowd noises engineered by Monty Python.

They have to fancy it up somehow otherwise they�d be playing under the conditions used to punish racism

# ? May 7, 2020 16:49

Mr. Mambold: Feb 13, 2011; Aha. Nice post.

hadji murad posted:

They have to fancy it up somehow otherwise they�d be playing under the conditions used to punish racism

Let's don't forget that it gets down to billionaire owners and millionaire players to provide an "alternative entertainment forum". So the improvised sound effects could include cash register dings for brilliant play, gong sound buzzers for bad play, slide whistles, etc. Also Leslie Nielsen referee antics.

# ? May 7, 2020 17:01

CyberPingu: Sep 15, 2013; If you're not striving to improve, you'll end up going backwards.

Get them to play in a green screen room. Then just super impose the crowds.

Or just call the season as is. No relegation, promote the top 2 from the Championship and have an extended season next year.

# ? May 7, 2020 19:27

Weaponized Cum: Aug 31, 2004; This post brought to you by the finest Miami cocaine money can buy ----->

Here's a good video report about monetary losses for sport. Includes a loved TRP Twitter personality

aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestory/2020/05/coronavirus-affecting-sport-industry-200507171557885.html

Guests:

Kieran Maguire - football finance lecturer at the University of Liverpool

Patrick Mbiele Happi - manager of retired Champions League footballer Samuel Eto

Tancredi Palmeri - beIN sport correspondent and former presenter for The Union of European Football Associations (UEFA)

# ? May 7, 2020 20:28

Gigi Galli: Sep 19, 2003; and then the car turned in to fire

CyberPingu posted:

Or just call the season as is. No relegation, promote the top 2 from the Championship and have an extended season next year.

Serie C just agreed to do something like this. There are three groups corresponding to northern, central and southern Italy. Each group's current leader will get promoted along with a 4th based on some wild calculations that they haven't specified yet. No relegations. With all the players in Serie A being tested again (and several teams reporting multiple positives) I have a feeling they'll either expand Serie A or B.

Serie A had been toying with playing with less teams so I have a feeling it'll be a fight to get them to agree to it. I bet Serie B will just have a huge competition with no relegations and no relegated teams from A either.

# ? May 7, 2020 21:11

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Mr. Mambold posted:

Let's don't forget that it gets down to billionaire owners and millionaire players to provide an "alternative entertainment forum". So the improvised sound effects could include cash register dings for brilliant play, gong sound buzzers for bad play, slide whistles, etc. Also Leslie Nielsen referee antics.

Roboref, your time has come

Also roboplayers and robocrowd

# ? May 7, 2020 22:11

Shaman Tank Spec: Dec 26, 2003; *blep*

kcer posted:

void the season, cowards

It's the only thing that makes sense. You've got a highly contagious disease that can spread over the air, and is especially contagious in skin to skin contact and through bodily fluids, can be asymptomatic but still highly contagious, and is potentially deadly.

So let's put a bunch of people in close proximity to each other and have them play a contact sport that requires body to body contact frequently, what could possibly go wrong?!

CyberPingu posted:

Or just call the season as is. No relegation, promote the top 2 from the Championship and have an extended season next year.

A bunch of clubs are unsurprisingly against the idea of a 22-23 team PL, because it means splitting the TV money around more and the English schedule is already insanely congested.

# ? May 7, 2020 22:32

Literally Lewis Hamilton: Feb 22, 2005

Der Shovel posted:

It's the only thing that makes sense. You've got a highly contagious disease that can spread over the air, and is especially contagious in skin to skin contact and through bodily fluids, can be asymptomatic but still highly contagious, and is potentially deadly.

So let's put a bunch of people in close proximity to each other and have them play a contact sport that requires body to body contact frequently, what could possibly go wrong?!

A bunch of clubs are unsurprisingly against the idea of a 22-23 team PL, because it means splitting the TV money around more and the English schedule is already insanely congested.

COVID19 is not airborne

# ? May 7, 2020 22:35

Weedle: May 31, 2006

big crush on Chad OMG posted:

COVID19 is not airborne

ok it's "aerosolized droplets" or whatever but the point is that these dudes are breathing on each other with their mouths wide open all the drat time

# ? May 7, 2020 22:40

sticksy: May 26, 2004; Nap Ghost

It�s spread by 5G, duh

# ? May 7, 2020 23:05

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

sticksy posted:

It�s spread by 5G, duh

Those little pellets they use do get loving everywhere

# ? May 7, 2020 23:10

CyberPingu: Sep 15, 2013; If you're not striving to improve, you'll end up going backwards.

Der Shovel posted:

It's the only thing that makes sense. You've got a highly contagious disease that can spread over the air, and is especially contagious in skin to skin contact and through bodily fluids, can be asymptomatic but still highly contagious, and is potentially deadly.

So let's put a bunch of people in close proximity to each other and have them play a contact sport that requires body to body contact frequently, what could possibly go wrong?!

A bunch of clubs are unsurprisingly against the idea of a 22-23 team PL, because it means splitting the TV money around more and the English schedule is already insanely congested.

At this point the only options are calling or voiding. Each have issues and obviously I'm biased towards one way.

Imo the fairest thing is to call it and don't relegate any teams. But again, I get that people don't consider that fair either and think voiding is the fairest thing to do.

# ? May 8, 2020 08:48

Butterfly Valley: Apr 19, 2007; I am a spectacularly bad poster and everyone in the Schadenfreude thread hates my guts.

Honestly at this point I'm past caring how they finish it, football seems so minor in the face of everything else. Like obviously I miss it and want it back, but only when it's actually safe and represents a return to normalcy. Trying to force it and play with no contact or whatever just seems totally overindulgent.

To the Liverpool fans, how do you think you'd actually feel if you were just awarded the title by decree? Because you know that every other fucker who supports a different team would never let you mention winning this year without giving you poo poo for it, forever

Butterfly Valley fucked around with this message at 10:54 on May 8, 2020

# ? May 8, 2020 10:51

TelekineticBear!: Feb 19, 2009

CyberPingu posted:

Imo the fairest thing is to call it and don't relegate any teams. But again, I get that people don't consider that fair either and think voiding is the fairest thing to do.

So poo poo clubs like Norwich get guaranteed Prem TV money for another season but championship clubs get told to do one?

# ? May 8, 2020 10:52

sassassin: Apr 3, 2010; by Azathoth

TelekineticBear! posted:

So poo poo clubs like Norwich get guaranteed Prem TV money for another season but championship clubs get told to do one?

haha yeah

Norwich were better in the Championship than any of the teams there this season tbf. Give em another go.

# ? May 8, 2020 10:57

CyberPingu: Sep 15, 2013; If you're not striving to improve, you'll end up going backwards.

TelekineticBear! posted:

So poo poo clubs like Norwich get guaranteed Prem TV money for another season but championship clubs get told to do one?

Sorry my earlier post said no relegation and promote the top 2 championship teams.

But also. Both options are going to gently caress over someone and people are lying if they say that they dont have a biased opinion one way or the other.

# ? May 8, 2020 11:11

CyberPingu: Sep 15, 2013; If you're not striving to improve, you'll end up going backwards.

Butterfly Valley posted:

To the Liverpool fans, how do you think you'd actually feel if you were just awarded the title by decree? Because you know that every other fucker who supports a different team would never let you mention winning this year without giving you poo poo for it, forever

title is a title. Imo we were so far ahead it was pretty much guaranteed anyway, if it was like 12 points clear then it would be different.

# ? May 8, 2020 11:12

hadji murad: Apr 18, 2006

TelekineticBear! posted:

So poo poo clubs like Norwich get guaranteed Prem TV money for another season but championship clubs get told to do one?

seeing Leeds and Liverpool both not win is the greatest gift of all

# ? May 8, 2020 11:25

Butterfly Valley: Apr 19, 2007; I am a spectacularly bad poster and everyone in the Schadenfreude thread hates my guts.

CyberPingu posted:

Sorry my earlier post said no relegation and promote the top 2 championship teams.

But also. Both options are going to gently caress over someone and people are lying if they say that they dont have a biased opinion one way or the other.

Yes everyone's biases are towards their own team specifically, but when you aggregate out the vast majority of those biases far more of them err towards it being unfair to finish the season as is. It's not like it's a simple coin toss of liverpool vs non liverpool, it's the fact that finishing the season as is benefits the tiny minority of clubs in entrenched winning/european/promotion positions and fucks over the majority of other clubs.

Just because you are apparently unable to separate emotion from logic doesn't mean everyone else is, if somehow man united and chelsea were in the relegation zone and we were top of the table I'd still think it unfair to call it without the rest of the games being played, even though it would be loving hilarious

Butterfly Valley fucked around with this message at 12:05 on May 8, 2020

# ? May 8, 2020 12:03

greazeball: Feb 4, 2003

Butterfly Valley posted:

Honestly at this point I'm past caring how they finish it, football seems so minor in the face of everything else. Like obviously I miss it and want it back, but only when it's actually safe and represents a return to normalcy. Trying to force it and play with no contact or whatever just seems totally overindulgent.

To the Liverpool fans, how do you think you'd actually feel if you were just awarded the title by decree? Because you know that every other fucker who supports a different team would never let you mention winning this year without giving you poo poo for it, forever

They were already writing their own narrative about LiVARpool already, who cares what anyone else thinks? We were way out in front and had beat every team in the league at least once. Yes, technically they hadn't clinched the title IN MARCH but remember that that was a possibility at one point. They already had red ribbons on the trophy, just loving give it to us. We were far and away the best team in the league, everyone admitted it, and we're 25 loving points clear with nine games to play. I don't give a poo poo about all the WELLACTUALLY bullshit I'm gonna hear, we were the best, nobody was close, give us the trophy. Honestly I'll feel more conflicted about the trophy we might get if City can't figure out how to bribe their way out of the FFP nonsense that's hanging over the 2014 season.

# ? May 8, 2020 12:06

Butterfly Valley: Apr 19, 2007; I am a spectacularly bad poster and everyone in the Schadenfreude thread hates my guts.

Nice meltdown

# ? May 8, 2020 12:08

Literally Lewis Hamilton: Feb 22, 2005

greazeball posted:

They were already writing their own narrative about LiVARpool already, who cares what anyone else thinks? We were way out in front and had beat every team in the league at least once. Yes, technically they hadn't clinched the title IN MARCH but remember that that was a possibility at one point. They already had red ribbons on the trophy, just loving give it to us. We were far and away the best team in the league, everyone admitted it, and we're 25 loving points clear with nine games to play. I don't give a poo poo about all the WELLACTUALLY bullshit I'm gonna hear, we were the best, nobody was close, give us the trophy. Honestly I'll feel more conflicted about the trophy we might get if City can't figure out how to bribe their way out of the FFP nonsense that's hanging over the 2014 season.

Liverpool hadn�t won�t the title so they shouldn�t get the title, it�s just simple facts really
Also lol at �we�

# ? May 8, 2020 12:13

greazeball: Feb 4, 2003

jesus some weak lazy burns here

Butterfly Valley posted:

Yes everyone's biases are towards their own team specifically, but when you aggregate out the vast majority of those biases far more of them err towards it being unfair to finish the season as is. It's not like it's a simple coin toss of liverpool vs non liverpool, it's the fact that finishing the season as is benefits the tiny minority of clubs in entrenched winning/european/promotion positions and fucks over the majority of other clubs.

Just because you are apparently unable to separate emotion from logic doesn't mean everyone else is, if somehow man united and chelsea were in the relegation zone and we were top of the table I'd still think it unfair to call it without the rest of the games being played, even though it would be loving hilarious

please post more about how city fans value fairness and competitive integrity

# ? May 8, 2020 12:17

Gigi Galli: Sep 19, 2003; and then the car turned in to fire

greazeball posted:

They were already writing their own narrative about LiVARpool already

I gotta agree here. Every one would�ve found an excuse to poo poo on this season even if it finished normally.

# ? May 8, 2020 12:30

Eau de MacGowan: May 12, 2009; BRASIL HEXA
2026 tá logo aí

is anyone else watching the k-league?

football: it's back, and it's poo poo

# ? May 8, 2020 12:36

Gigi Galli: Sep 19, 2003; and then the car turned in to fire

Eau de MacGowan posted:

is anyone else watching the k-league?

football: it's back, and it's poo poo

Whoa they�re playing? I thought it was just baseball for now.

# ? May 8, 2020 12:36

Eau de MacGowan: May 12, 2009; BRASIL HEXA
2026 tá logo aí

its live on the guardian, ten minutes left, one red card and a hundred bowl cuts: https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2020/may/08/korea-k-league-watch-live-stream-free-jeonbuk-v-suwon-bluewings

# ? May 8, 2020 12:39

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 14:37

jre: Sep 2, 2011; To the cloud ?

Butterfly Valley posted:

Honestly at this point I'm past caring how they finish it, football seems so minor in the face of everything else. Like obviously I miss it and want it back, but only when it's actually safe and represents a return to normalcy. Trying to force it and play with no contact or whatever just seems totally overindulgent.

To the Liverpool fans, how do you think you'd actually feel if you were just awarded the title by decree? Because you know that every other fucker who supports a different team would never let you mention winning this year without giving you poo poo for it, forever

Not a Liverpoo fan, but Celtic are likely to be awarded the title next week because running games behind closed doors isn't financially viable with the garbage TV deal we have in Scotland.

The fact this is making Rangers have a thermonuclear meltdown makes it better if anything

# ? May 8, 2020 13:36

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Ray Parlour > CORONAting a champion: voiding the season to own the Livs

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