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You're never going back to brunch because capitalism is falling apart. It doesn't matter what capitalist is at the helm. For the love of god get this idea that things can go back to normal out of your head.
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May 8, 2020 14:19
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dmitri posted:No to mention all his pissy goddamn whining on a daily basis. The liberal objection to Trump is an aesthetic one
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May 8, 2020 14:22
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is pepsi ok posted:You're never going back to brunch because capitalism is falling apart. It doesn't matter what capitalist is at the helm. For the love of god get this idea that things can go back to normal out of your head. Yeah, obviously, you should be moving left. But will AOC or anyone like her be able to win the 2024 election after Trump has continued to dismantle your government and added more rightwing judges for four more years? I think that won't be the case, but you know, feel free to disagree.
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May 8, 2020 14:26
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:The liberal objection to Trump is an aesthetic one I vote for my left party, because it actually can make a difference  Thanks for assuming though!
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May 8, 2020 14:28
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Yeah, obviously, you should be moving left. But will AOC or anyone like her be able to win the 2024 election after Biden has continued to dismantle your government and added more rightwing judges for four more years? I think that won't be the case, but you know, feel free to disagree.
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May 8, 2020 14:28
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How clever I also can't wait until the fascist Sotomayor is removed from the supreme court and replaced by more syndicalist Trump judges like Kavanaugh.
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May 8, 2020 14:33
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I'm so tired of this. The DSA or some similarly situated group should form as a third party. If the Democratic candidate is acceptable, nominate him or her. If they aren't, nominate someone who is acceptable. Basically like what WFP does, except actually nominate other people, and do it on a national level.
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May 8, 2020 14:36
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dmitri posted:I vote for my left party, because it actually can make a difference Is it really assuming when it's the only specific thing you chose to mention?
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May 8, 2020 14:37
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There's no good answer on the Tara Reade issue for AOC or Bernie. I mean, there is a good answer ("I believe her") but they feel their position as elected officials makes it impossible for them to say that. They should just not do any media while this is going on. AOC destroying her base credibility over Joe Biden is really dire and terrible. Just "no-comment" your way out of it if you can't do what you really should be doing.
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May 8, 2020 14:38
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is pepsi ok posted:You're never going back to brunch because capitalism is falling apart. I don't think it is the failure of capitalism that is panicking the country, but in fact the failing of Liberalism that is truly driving us insane. We have all these illusions about our world, all of these misconceptions that we've internalized about our society. And Donald Trump is doing a fantastic job of cutting through the nonsense in his own stupid way. We believe that wealth is distributed fairly to those who deserve it: Donald loving Trump. We believe our democracy is a sacred process which elects the most capable leaders: Donald loving Trump We believe all people - women, ethnic minorities - are treated fairly: Donald loving Trump All of these lies about our "democracy", all these things we hold to be self-evident, Donald Trump proves to be untrue. And people hate him for that. In a way, Biden is the next logical step. Many have faith that the Democrats will save them from the pussy-grabbing Republicans. The segregationists. The men in darkened rooms with briefcases full of cash that laugh as the seas boil. But Joe Biden is all of those things. More than that, Joe Biden is all of those things and you know it and you're STILL going to vote for him. And if you don't like it, well, you can vote for someone else. At least, that's what Joe will tell you. And that is the inevitable revelation. That there is no other party, there is no one in our government that represents us. Represents our needs, our suffering. So go ahead: Pull the lever. Punch the card. Poke the screen. Demonstrate to all of us, to yourself, that you care about the political system. Just don't pretend that our political system cares about you. You can't do that anymore. Not after Joe loving Biden.
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May 8, 2020 14:40
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dmitri posted:How clever The only difference between the judges Trump will appoint and the judges Biden will appoint is that the latter will hem and haw and write big pearl-clutching dissertations before voting as far right as possible
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May 8, 2020 14:41
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:The only difference between the judges Trump will appoint and the judges Biden will appoint is that the latter will hem and haw and write big pearl-clutching dissertations before voting as far right as possible I think it's important to remind everyone that Citizens United happened under Obama.
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May 8, 2020 14:43
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dmitri posted:I vote for my left party, because it actually can make a difference Remember when Obama/Biden administration decided not to do anything about that vacant Supreme Court spot when Scalia died?
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May 8, 2020 14:48
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COVID-19 posted:Remember when Obama/Biden administration decided not to do anything about that vacant Supreme Court spot when Scalia died? Yeah, sure, I disagree that they could have done something with a republican senate, but I'm not a legal expert. What does that have to do with the post you quoted?
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May 8, 2020 14:50
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dmitri posted:Yeah, sure, I disagree that they could have done something with a republican senate, but I'm not a legal expert. What does that have to do with the post you quoted? You're pretending our "left" party can make a difference when, every time we've given them power, they have specifically chosen not to. America doesn't have an actual left party. We have two right parties. One is just secretly monsters instead of openly.
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May 8, 2020 14:54
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Hey, why does the Democratic party believe Trump was put into power through Russian manipulation yet none of them have pushed for him to be considered an illegitimate president? You'd think that a foreign agent holding highest office would be the sort of thing you'd move heaven and earth to stop instead of just going "Ok, well we'll get him in 4 years".
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May 8, 2020 14:55
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dmitri posted:How clever Do you know who Anita Hill is dmitri posted:I vote for my left party, because it actually can make a difference Thank you for that and I mean it, I too will vote for the most left wing party on my ballot
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May 8, 2020 14:56
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dmitri posted:Yeah, sure, I disagree that they could have done something with a republican senate, but I'm not a legal expert. What does that have to do with the post you quoted? In the US, “voting left” doesn’t end up in getting anything leftist. I know it’s hard to understand, but the Democrats are right-wing or centrist at best, so voting for them just helps the far-right achieve their goals more quickly. I hope this helps
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May 8, 2020 14:56
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dmitri posted:How clever Lol the court is already lost, and we lost it under Bidens watch. Legitimacy does not stem from the SCOTUS, it goes there to die. There has been maybe a combined decade in all of American history where this wasn't the case It's interesting you cite foreign policy because it's the one area where Trump is, on the whole, pretty much inarguably better than a warhawk Dem like Biden or Clinton. I mean he doesn't bother lying about stuff for PR like with the Paris Accords or anything and he hasn't started a war, but gosh he's just so CRUDE about it all! Like the main strike against him that is uniquely on him is leaving the Iran deal, which is loving bad, but also Clinton and Biden hate Iran even more so I can't even say they'd have acted differently lol, what a great party
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May 8, 2020 15:17
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Epic High Five posted:Lol the court is already lost, and we lost it under Bidens watch. Legitimacy does not stem from the SCOTUS, it goes there to die. There has been maybe a combined decade in all of American history where this wasn't the case To Trump's credit, had Biden been in charge of the coup in Venezuela it might have succeeded. Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 15:29 on May 8, 2020 |
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May 8, 2020 15:22
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Hellblazer187 posted:There's no good answer on the Tara Reade issue for AOC or Bernie. I mean, there is a good answer ("I believe her") but they feel their position as elected officials makes it impossible for them to say that. They should just not do any media while this is going on. AOC destroying her base credibility over Joe Biden is really dire and terrible. Just "no-comment" your way out of it if you can't do what you really should be doing. Unfortunately she's gotten herself stuck in the loop of believing that if she debases herself just a bit more, the target will be removed from her back and the party won't do anything they can to remove her, whether by election or straight up redistricting her out of Congress.
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May 8, 2020 15:31
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dmitri posted:Yeah, obviously, you should be moving left. But will AOC or anyone like her be able to win the 2024 election after Trump has continued to dismantle your government and added more rightwing judges for four more years? I think that won't be the case, but you know, feel free to disagree. Joe Biden will not add left wing judges. The Biden presidency will be one of things not getting worse, but not getting better in a tangible way at all.
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May 8, 2020 15:41
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Hillary Clinton hated the Iran Deal and actively fought it and sabotaged relations with Iran until John Kerry replaced her But Trump leaving the Iran deal is beyond the pale
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May 8, 2020 15:51
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Epic High Five posted:Lol the court is already lost, and we lost it under Bidens watch. Legitimacy does not stem from the SCOTUS, it goes there to die. There has been maybe a combined decade in all of American history where this wasn't the case Well that an interesting take, considering Trump is the loving worst on foreign policy, pulling out of Rojava, cutting funding to the UN, cutting funding to the WHO, almost causing a war with Iran in january, "shithole countries" etc. It seems sort of farfetched that Biden would have pulled out of the Iran deal.
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May 8, 2020 16:02
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Trump is bad because he's a warmonger why won't Trump start more warsE: ISIS exists because Biden whipped Democratic support for the Iraq War
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May 8, 2020 16:03
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Who wants Trump to start more wars? Are you confused?
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May 8, 2020 16:06
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dmitri posted:Who wants Trump to start more wars? Are you confused? dmitri posted:Trump is the loving worst on foreign policy...pulling out of Rojava
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May 8, 2020 16:07
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dmitri posted:Who wants Trump to start more wars? Are you confused? Biden and his advisers would probably start voting for Trump if he promised military action against China, for one. At least, that’s seems to be the new scary Enemy that the Democrats are pivoting to.
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May 8, 2020 16:09
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dmitri posted:Well that an interesting take, considering Trump is the loving worst on foreign policy, pulling out of Rojava, cutting funding to the UN, cutting funding to the WHO, almost causing a war with Iran in january, "shithole countries" etc. It seems sort of farfetched that Biden would have pulled out of the Iran deal. oh, he's not good, it's just that as far as foreign policy goes the bar is barely above the center of the Earth for American Presidents. Clinton would've and Biden almost certainly will do a whole laundry list of things that are equally or more stupid and cruel in service of The Empire, but probably not those specifically, though I wouldn't put too many chips down on them sticking with allies in the middle east or global orgs that decide to buck our preferred messaging
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May 8, 2020 16:13
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Oh sure, Turkey would have gone to war with the US, that seems realistic. No one cares about the kurds 
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May 8, 2020 16:13
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dmitri posted:Oh sure, Turkey would have gone to war with the US, that seems realistic. No one cares about the kurds We were and still are incredibly angry about the betrayal of the Kurds. Nobody is saying Trump has GOOD foreign policy except in very narrow lanes like with the DPRK and not being smart or interested enough to do more than a horrible baby killing embargo against Venezuela I'd love somebody who would be actually progressive when it comes to foreign policy, but neither of the two primary options are that person and so it's not worth wasting the breath it takes to attack Trump on that. The Dems certainly aren't, their critique of Trump so far seems to be that he wasn't hawkish enough. They certainly aren't upset about the Kurd thing by the looks of it, and it tooks months of screaming at them to even pass a resolution condemning the Yemeni genocide
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May 8, 2020 16:16
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dmitri posted:Oh sure, Turkey would have gone to war with the US, that seems realistic. If you're outright admitting that the US is only there under the assumption Turkey would never attack and we don't plan to actually go to war if they do, Turkey can probably figure it out too, then what dmitri posted:No one cares about the kurds Least of all the US, which is why I can't understand people who claim that this war is the one true humanitarian American war, no it isn't lol
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May 8, 2020 16:18
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VitalSigns posted:Trump is bad because he's a warmonger This is understating Biden's culpability, though to be fair there is no brief way to convey it that won't be taken as hyperbole, because he bears a greater level of direct responsibility than most senior members of the Bush administration. Biden was talking up war with Iraq five years before the AUMF. The AUMF was passed in a Democrat-controlled Senate, where Biden served as chair of the Foreign Relations committee. In that capacity he saw all of the same classified intelligence that led other members of that committee to conclude the case for war was purest nonsense. He led the Senate's public hearings in the lead up to war, and had complete control over which witnesses were called (and much control over the agenda, tone, information disseminated, etc.). Said witnesses were overwhelmingly pro-war. And, as you say, he absolutely took point in lobbying other Senate Democrats on behalf of the Bush administration. LGD fucked around with this message at 16:22 on May 8, 2020 |
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May 8, 2020 16:19
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The US had been looking the other way for years as Erdogan massacred Kurds in areas they controlled, neither Trump nor Obama/Biden ever gave a poo poo and kept arming and funding Turkey anyway The idea that the US was ever going to trade its strategic alliance with Turkey for the Kurds is absurd, we didn't betray them because of Trump, we betrayed them because that's what we do and always have done and the people suddenly mad about it are only mad that Trump is president and they wouldn't have given a poo poo if it had happened to be a (D) president betraying them (again) Hillary and Biden are best friends with greatest living monster Henry Kissinger, lol just lol at believing they care about innocent life
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May 8, 2020 16:23
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dmitri posted:Well that an interesting take, considering Trump is the loving worst on foreign policy, pulling out of Rojava, cutting funding to the UN, cutting funding to the WHO, almost causing a war with Iran in january, "shithole countries" etc. It seems sort of farfetched that Biden would have pulled out of the Iran deal. I think that we need to stop looking at Donald Trump's intentions and start looking at his failures. 1. He failed to start a war with Iran. I don't know whether Biden would have tried in the first place; frankly, I think he would start a war with a weaker country first. In this, he would probably be successful. Barack Obama had military actions all over the planet. He bombed weddings, funerals, countries in which we were at peace. He did this for years. Trump shot one missile and effectively missed. 2. He failed to launch a coup in Venezuela. This could have been a complete loving mess. We all know what happens when you create a massive power vacuum; dictators take over. Violence takes over. Biden may have succeeded. In fact, he has publicly backed the agitators. So, really, Trump's incompetence is his greatest boon. On the WHO and UN funding, that's a loving pen stroke to fix. The next guy can just be "Yeah, we're back in" and it's fine. Toppling a government could cost hundreds of thousands of lives and decades to repair. And Trump can't do it. I don't trust him not to be an rear end in a top hat. On the contrary, I trust him to be an impotent rear end in a top hat So, who would you rather have in charge: Someone with horrible intentions and no capability to carry them out. or Someone with bad intentions who can definitely make them happen.
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May 8, 2020 16:24
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I think that we need to stop looking at Donald Trump's intentions and start looking at his failures. I don't understand how this is a question when the last administration had a policy of not having a war with Iran. They created the Iran Nuclear Deal. Biden's team were part of the negotiation. quote:frankly, I think he would start a war with a weaker country first. In this, he would probably be successful. Barack Obama had military actions all over the planet. He bombed weddings, funerals, countries in which we were at peace. He did this for years. Trump shot one missile and effectively missed. How did he miss? He assassinated Qassim Suleimani. Iran then bombed an Iraqi airbase. Both sides backed down after that.
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May 8, 2020 16:36
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Donald Trump's intentions are arguably not as bad as Biden's or Hillary's. Trump doesn't really seem to care about foreign policy besides being able to look strong and avoid responsibility for any failures because failing is weak, and the way this manifests is a huge risk aversion. He's probably the least hawkish president on North Korea since Bill Clinton, he had a petty twitter spat with Kim Jong Un to look strong then met him and became his best buddy and claimed that his "strength" succeeded in defusing tensions. Joe Biden is actively malicious and evil and has spent his entire career from his hippy-punching days in Vietnam, to propagandizing for the Iraq War for years before 9/11, to going full Trump on yellow peril, working to extend the US colonial empire and drown the planet in blood. Trump is real bad but his most warlike actions to date have been firing off a couple missiles, bragging about it, then doing nothing because of the risk of failing and looking weak.
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May 8, 2020 16:37
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VitalSigns posted:Donald Trump's intentions are arguably not as bad as Biden's or Hillary's. Trump was going to pull dependents out of South Korea, and was considering an bloody nose strike on a missile base in NK. I never heard anything from Obama about wanting to strike North Korea.
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May 8, 2020 16:39
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Cpt_Obvious posted:So, who would you rather have in charge:
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May 8, 2020 16:42
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Willo567 posted:Trump was going to pull dependents out of South Korea, and was considering an bloody nose strike on a missile base in NK. Hillary Clinton suggested airstriking the Ecuadorean embassy in London, which is even more insane
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May 8, 2020 16:42
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