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OwlFancier posted:I don't even get the economic argument to be honest, surely even killing everyone the virus can kill in a "controlled" manner is gonna cause far more economic damage than figuring out how to make it work without killing people. They think almost everyone the virus kills is economically inactive anyway so it's fine if they die
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May 10, 2020 00:39
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Jose posted:They think almost everyone the virus kills is economically inactive anyway so it's fine if they die Even if that was so, it's going to do a lot of harm to the "economically inactive people" service sector if they're all loving dead. Y'know, newspapers, care, finance, food service, hospitality, insurance, commemorative plate telesales, daytime television. None of which are things our economy is based on I'm sure.
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May 10, 2020 00:42
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namesake posted:Nah gently caress this argument, we must keep borders open as much as possible in all circumstances. In this circumstance what countries like New Zealand did was way better than our response.
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May 10, 2020 00:45
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sassassin posted:In this circumstance what countries like New Zealand did was way better than our response. Yes but NZ doesn't exist on the levels of foreign trade and foreign persons living there that we do. Shutting down your borders when all trade takes months to arrive and days for urgent flights to get there is very different. They can survive global plagues by shutting things down and it's simple for them without economic impact or really discussing principles of residency and rights that we do. The UK is an inherent part of the global community and we must not suddenly abandon our attachment to global society even with the virus.
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May 10, 2020 01:06
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namesake posted:Nah gently caress this argument, we must keep borders open as much as possible in all circumstances. Mildly inconveniencing people by taking their temperature and asking if they have a dry cough when they enter the country is hardly machine-gunning refugees as they get stuck on barbed wire, and I'm willing to trade a New Zealand level of sickness and death for the principle. The problem is, as with the entire UK (and American) response, a complete failure of imagination. They literally cannot conceive of any solution that isn't either "MAXIMUM POLICING NOW" or "Eh, something will probably turn up", because the entire political establishment sees Government as something that shouldn't do anything that isn't brutal defence of property rights. They lack the toolkit - both conceptual and physical - to deal with a situation that can't be fixed by giving Serco money. In this particular case they could only think in terms of just banning travel, which was unacceptable on every level. The nuance of screening (and the organisational skills to set up quarantine) completely fails them. You see this with everything - contact tracing could have been done by the thousands of environmental health officers at councils all over the country, who are already experienced with such work, but that needs somebody with the skill and inclination to organise them. Instead they tried it for like a week then abandoned it, and now they realise it does have to be done someone comes along with an app which just needs them to sign a cheque, so guess what they do? PPE to an acceptable standard could be made by literally hundreds of currently-furloughed companies up and down the country (everything from fashion houses to sail makers) but somebody would have to actually contact them, make sure they have the right specs and are sticking to them. Much easier to wave money around in Turkey. This isn't even a neoliberalism problem per se - just look at the actual skills in cabinet. The Prime Minister is an opinion columnist, the Foreign Secretary is a lawyer, the Health Secretary an economist, the Home Secretary a lobbyist. None of them have ever actually had to organise anything more complex than a drinks party - that's for other people. They not only lack the skill to keep on top of a completely new situation, they've literally never before run into a situation that can't be fixed with words and cash. (Or, to steal P.J. O'Rourke's line, Republicans are the party that says Government doesn't work, then get elected and prove it)
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May 10, 2020 01:13
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We're in a strong fourth place for global cases and could easily leap ahead to third or second, and we're now in second for deaths and pulling ahead of Italy so uh I'd love to know what this "alert" system could be except cranked up to maximum for the next few months 
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May 10, 2020 01:21
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OwlFancier posted:I have to say I am enjoying, for a given value of enjoyment, the left just repeatedly dunking on starmer at every opportunity. Ultimately I don't really resent Keir for being Keir, he's a spineless lib toad so of course he's being a spineless lib toad. The ones I resent are the loving dopes who regard themselves as leftists and just threw the towel in and gave the leadership back to the spineless libs after one measly defeat. loving lack of fight. Instead they conned themselves that the knight was someone he wasn't. Top work.
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May 10, 2020 01:21
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namesake posted:Yes but NZ doesn't exist on the levels of foreign trade and foreign persons living there that we do. NZ's foreign born population % is something like twice ours is, just fyi
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May 10, 2020 01:25
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forkboy84 posted:Ultimately I don't really resent Keir for being Keir, he's a spineless lib toad so of course he's being a spineless lib toad. The ones I resent are the loving dopes who regard themselves as leftists and just threw the towel in and gave the leadership back to the spineless libs after one measly defeat. loving lack of fight. I think a lot of it is lack of experience and genuine shock from the loss, but to me that just means it's more important to make him out to be the waste of skin he is and try to make sure the membership is more aware in future. He was a loving stupid choice but sometimes people have to learn the hard way, unfortunately.
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May 10, 2020 01:28
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namesake posted:Nah gently caress this argument, we must keep borders open as much as possible in all circumstances.
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May 10, 2020 01:53
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forkboy84 posted:Ultimately I don't really resent Keir for being Keir, he's a spineless lib toad so of course he's being a spineless lib toad. The ones I resent are the loving dopes who regard themselves as leftists and just threw the towel in and gave the leadership back to the spineless libs after one measly defeat. loving lack of fight. Tbf there could be whole tomes written about the psychic shock that the left got that night. I can understand why people who might not have been committed UKMarxismThread posters or equally zealous might have felt like everything got upended and we might as well just go for the sensible lawyer because at least he might win and even if he's not going to be great in office he also might not feed the disabled into the meatgrinder that is ATOS.
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May 10, 2020 01:59
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Starmer's campaign was very good at tapping into that feeling as well
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May 10, 2020 02:43
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https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1259045346564587522?s=21 This is a good article on what's going on inside the government - long story short, we're seeing a Tory faction war where the last week of briefings were a sustained attack on Number Ten policy by the party far right.
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May 10, 2020 03:00
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New Yorker story on the UK handling of the virus which captures it far better than any domestic media.
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May 10, 2020 03:22
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Yeah, I was disappointed when Starmer won (I voted RLB) but I also thought: "Hey, perhaps my perceptions have been warped by constantly reading the UKMT and the Labour party membership collectively has a better idea of who'll make a good leader." A few weeks on and nope, he's been exactly the sort of grey, timid, vacillating, weak, triangulating return to the Ed Miliband Labour era that I'd feared he'd be. You'd think that the party would've worked out that convoluted, over-complicated policies whose main aim is to avoid offending anyone at all will also fail to enthuse anyone at all but here we are again.
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May 10, 2020 05:50
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Red Oktober posted:My satnav for my bike (MIO) does exactly this - you tell it how long you want to be out for and it’ll plot you a nice circular route, taking into account bike lanes and quiet roads. Is this a feature on all their models (ie the cheapest) or is it only on certain ones? I'd love to get back into bike riding but I'm clueless on how to find nice routes
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May 10, 2020 06:29
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To the surprise of no one, sticking tens of thousands of extra swabs in the post to try to make the bullshit Number over 100k has lead to a huge backlog of returned tests that we can’t process so we’re asking the Americans to do it for us. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52603566
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May 10, 2020 06:34
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Tarnop posted:Is this a feature on all their models (ie the cheapest) or is it only on certain ones? I'd love to get back into bike riding but I'm clueless on how to find nice routes I've had the same problem of getting back into cycling in an area I don't know so well. You can try looking at sites like MapMyRide, Strava and Komoot that have routes submitted by users or generated from user data. That does rely on there being enough cyclists in your area using those apps though. Your local council or tourism body quite likely has a website describing at least a few bike trails - they tend to list family friendly ones but they can be a good starting point for longer rides. Try checking your local bike clubs too, even if you don't want to ride with other people they might have a site or a forum where they describe their regular routes.
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May 10, 2020 07:03
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Purple Prince posted:New Yorker story on the UK handling of the virus which captures it far better than any domestic media. If this article was about a country i knew very little about I'd suspect the author had an agenda and was making an unfair hatchet job but... no, none of this article is remotely false
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May 10, 2020 07:33
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big scary monsters posted:I've had the same problem of getting back into cycling in an area I don't know so well. Thanks for the advice, those sites have turned up some good stuff already
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May 10, 2020 07:37
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big scary monsters posted:I've had the same problem of getting back into cycling in an area I don't know so well. Try and see if a local bike club has a page on Strava you can join, that way you can see all the members rides and rob them for routes I've thoroughly exhausted my list of existing routes and now just copy rides of other local riders I follow
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May 10, 2020 07:42
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What is with this obsession with garden centres all of a sudden
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May 10, 2020 08:22
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Jel Shaker posted:What is with this obsession with garden centres all of a sudden Old people have been gurning to their MPs and the world at large that off licences are open but they're not able to buy their plants and plastic ornaments with multi-coloured LEDs, op
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May 10, 2020 08:27
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Jel Shaker posted:What is with this obsession with garden centres all of a sudden I live round the corner from a garden centre and I assure you it’s not a recent obsession. The place is *rammed* with boomers, and they bus coach loads of very olds in, even in the dead of winter. The cafe is one of those where “if it costs a lot it must be good”. Which is why a ring cream doughnut costs £4.
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May 10, 2020 08:29
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also, anecdotally, garden centres are complaining because big supermarkets can stock plants and seeds (?) and can stay open, whereas garden centres can't and are losing business
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May 10, 2020 08:30
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OwlFancier posted:I don't even get the economic argument to be honest, surely even killing everyone the virus can kill in a "controlled" manner is gonna cause far more economic damage than figuring out how to make it work without killing people. Yes, but that will happen in 6 months or so when oh look, they're already planning to crash the economy on ideological grounds anyway, so having a national disaster to blame is actually super convenient.
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May 10, 2020 08:35
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I feel for them, the profit margin on plants is really really slim which is why most garden centres also have cafes and sell house stuff and clothes these days. The problem was that most of them tried staying open that first week and the boomers/very olds just refused to social distance, and still did poo poo like totter up to the people watering the plants, tugging in their arms, and going “excuse my young lady could you just” so they closed out of fright. My friend does security there and she said most of the staff were hiding in the smokers area round the back just crying into the middle distance by about 10am on that first Saturday.
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May 10, 2020 08:36
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learnincurve posted:I live round the corner from a garden centre and I assure you it’s not a recent obsession. The place is *rammed* with boomers, and they bus coach loads of very olds in, even in the dead of winter. The cafe is one of those where “if it costs a lot it must be good”. Which is why a ring cream doughnut costs £4. That's actually so that the clientelle can indulge in their other favourite pastime of complaining that things are too expensive these days and you got more for your money not ripped off in the old days their days my days not like your days these days 
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May 10, 2020 08:37
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I'm off to barter flour and cuppa soups for some yeast sachets. Quite enjoying this system tbh. Plus, my snazzy home made mask makes me look a bit like a bandit. Strong confirm on folk using garden centres as social clubs. Really hoping my fav tree/bush supplier survives this, both financially and from the walking soon to be dead Probably wise to try and stock up over the next week or so if you can safely
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May 10, 2020 08:50
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At the risk of sounding like A Trusted Expert, I do stuff like this for a living and there's no way a professional would come up with something this bad. Anyone claiming this isn't intentionally vague, so blame can be foisted upon the public rather than the government, is a naive idiot
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May 10, 2020 08:51
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Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1259045346564587522?s=21 lol "Buzzfeed" posted:Dominic Cummings, who at the beginning of the pandemic was said to have endorsed the controversial herd immunity approach, has also become more dovish in recent weeks, allies of the PM’s chief aide said.
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May 10, 2020 08:55
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Walking alertly down a deserted alleyway with my keys clenched in a sweaty fist in case coronavirus jumps out at me from behind a bin.
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May 10, 2020 08:56
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big scary monsters posted:Walking alertly down a deserted alleyway with my keys clenched in a sweaty fist in case coronavirus jumps out at me from behind a bin. Sitting alertly at my desk at home, like every day for the vast majority of the past year and a half, alertly watching the parcel that just arrived in case it mutates into a giant nail-studded green football with a mouth and starts eating my face.
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May 10, 2020 09:08
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elbkaida posted:lol The science changed.
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May 10, 2020 09:10
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Jel Shaker posted:What is with this obsession with garden centres all of a sudden this time of year, spring to early summer, is as important sales wise to garden centres as xmas is to high st retail. it’s not an exaggeration to say that if they aren’t open now they will all go bankrupt. (or need another huge government bailout)
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May 10, 2020 09:11
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Also pottering about in their gardens is something olds do and it keeps them at home at least.
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May 10, 2020 09:12
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Jedit posted:The science changed. Science tends to change rapidly when you actually come down with the disease you've been shrugging off. Notice how many of the Tory 'doves' caught the bug.
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May 10, 2020 09:18
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Is it just me or has the use of the word 'forensic' in conjunction with the word 'Starmer' reduced in the last week or so? I'm sure there's a tool of some sort you can use to see how often a word was used on the internet over a given period of time but I can't remember what it was and Prof Google hasn't helped me.
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May 10, 2020 09:20
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My first job when I was a teen was in the caff in a garden centre and yeah, it was busy pretty much all the time. I remember one January when we had snow storms and severe weather warnings and for some reason stayed open we still had way more customers than you'd expect. One old lady was like "We only live a bit down the A-road but it took us over an hour to get in!" and she and her husband had come in for literally tea and toast. I woud hazard a guess its the way they socialise but almost every single one of the regulars was horrible and seemingly mostly there just to be a dickhead to staff. Which, now I've said it, is probably what passes for socialising to dusty old middle class liches?
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May 10, 2020 09:32
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It can be revealed that the Conservative frontbench has split into two warring factions. The traditionalist faction, led by a painting of Winston Churchill that began speaking in eldrich tongues one day in 1982, believes the coronavirus is caused by demons stealing pieces of human lungs to use in their occult rituals to turn children gay, and recommends a gradual program replacing all lungs by wooden bellows by 2034. The other, led by a neural net trained on bitcoin subreddits, takes the more moderate view that it is in fact caused by rats that have been shrivelled up by 3G mobile masts to the point where they can enter the bloodstream and start nibbling at one's insides, causing all kinds of mischief. They recommend diverting funds that would normally go to children's hospitals into replacing telephones with a network of ethernet sockets every 20 metres on all public roads. This paper takes the view that, while both sides have their flaws and should be subjected to respectful scrutiny, in these troubled time the Prime Minister needs the nation's support in whichever course of action he ultimately chooses to take - and we will gladly give it.
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May 10, 2020 09:38
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