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Live Free posted:Just poking my head out to say that I generally agree with this post and the ones below it endorsing it. QCS is QCS but it's not fair to paint all of CSPAM as deranged murder-fantasy psychos any more than it is to paint the peace thread as a pocket of disgruntled nazis. My understanding of the situation is that there was some telephone being played, the admins/mods contacted him, Lowtax went "What the hell? No, absolutely zero tolerance, not even for ironic jokes" and went back to doing whatever it is he's doing, not because he barged in all red and nude out of massive concern. I feel like the concerns about the site being shut down have become kind of self-escalating. The Secret Service issued a subpoena to Lowtax a decade ago over MaggotMaster's plan to assassinate President Obama, and it didn't get the site shutdown (or even get LF shutdown, that came a year or so later because of inter-forum harassment). Relax a little IMO, Something Awful isn't going to go anywhere anytime soon. Gumball Gumption posted:Eh, I think it's easy to get a bad first impression because you take the worst posts as the consensus. But if you keep doing it, argue against evidence in the opposite, and keep doing it without trying to take in more of the community than you're just being willfully ignorant. This happens so frequently on these forums, and particularly with various issues popping up in QCS over the past year, and even itt with people assuming the War & Peace thread is exclusively disgruntled right-wingers conspiring to delete CSPAM. I think goons should, generally, be offering a whole lot more benefit of doubt.
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May 14, 2020 18:30
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SKULL.GIF posted:This happens so frequently on these forums, and particularly with various issues popping up in QCS over the past year, and even itt with people assuming the War & Peace thread is exclusively disgruntled right-wingers conspiring to delete CSPAM. I think goons should, generally, be offering a whole lot more benefit of doubt. i don't believe this, for the record. In fact I assume most posters there aren't chuds or homophobes. I don't think the thread exists with a singular mission to destroy cspam. It's just that most of the QCS Karens post there and it's deeply ironic that they appear to fancy themselves as the forums arbiters of what kind of ironic shitposting is acceptable
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May 14, 2020 18:45
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I don't think most of the peace thread are full on nazis so much as a bunch of posters that refuse to consider how their sense of humor has become dated.
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May 14, 2020 18:49
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Counterpoint: this is incredibly funny and if they want to troll cspam by making fun of us I'm all for it
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May 14, 2020 18:52
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My only complaint about my probation is less that I got it so much as for the reason, we were just talking about rapsheets being open season in there and what I pointed out was in that specific poster's rapsheets, not a scurrilous claim, but I should've known better than go for the obvious probe bait anyway.
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May 14, 2020 19:01
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Wheeee posted:Part of the reason he was boosted as a mod and why the insane alt-right offsite loves to cheer him on is that he was willing to poo poo on the trans posters and clear that undesirable element from TGRS, he was friends with the former mod and it was at a time when the site leadership just wanted problems to go away. while you are free to have any opinion you want of members of the mod staff, I don’t think this is useful feedback for cspam, nor is your opinion of fluffdaddy very charitable. I will note, so no one is surprised, that this thread will likely be retired this week, and will be brought back periodically over the course of the year. part of the reason for that is so that it doesn’t turn into weird helldump poo poo, and partly because while we do not mind feedback, having a perpetually open feedback thread would be exhausting. so, if you have anymore significant cspam feedback left to give, now is the time to say your piece before the thread is temporarily retired.
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May 14, 2020 19:03
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hello as a lurker i like cspam as it is and i don’t think it should change much
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May 14, 2020 19:08
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Lightning Knight posted:while you are free to have any opinion you want of members of the mod staff, I don’t think this is useful feedback for cspam, nor is your opinion of fluffdaddy very charitable. I'll put out that I think it's weird that anytime we start to gain traction or make progress towards viewing ourselves and other parts of the site as people with flaws rather than monsters (while validly criticizing mods) that our outlet for those discussions get taken away, most likely because mods and admins are feeling bad and demanding that happen.
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May 14, 2020 19:10
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Lightning Knight posted:while you are free to have any opinion you want of members of the mod staff, I don’t think this is useful feedback for cspam, nor is your opinion of fluffdaddy very charitable. i think before it closes we need to have clarification on what "calls for violence" means. That's honestly my biggest concern. I think we all understand that "PERSON X needs to be assassinated" or "let's firebomb Ted Cruz's office" are not ok, but part of leftism should be in discussing the utility of violence in protesting or pushback against oppression. What about guillotine chat? Or saying "in a just world, Jeff Bezos would be hung for his crimes against society." I don't know if you can draw clear lines, but I'd appreciate more color on this since lots of the QCS activity seems to revolve around this very topic
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May 14, 2020 19:10
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Lightning Knight does a good job Squizzle does a good job Fluffdaddy does a poo poo job and QCS is lovely and allowing obsessives to continue delving deeper into their paranoia that C-SPAM is a breeding ground for terrorist activity or whatever is lovely That's my feedback
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May 14, 2020 19:10
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:I'll put out that I think it's weird that anytime we start to gain traction or make progress towards viewing ourselves and other parts of the site as people with flaws rather than monsters (while validly criticizing mods) that our outlet for those discussions get taken away, most likely because mods and admins are feeling bad and demanding that happen. Yeah seriously. It's a pattern with the moderation on this site. lol that literally anyone thinks things have been resolved enough to warrant closing this thread e: if it's really time for final thoughts then I guess "have fun dealing with the same issues popping up again and again if you're going to keep the door-slamming approach", plus a +1 to this Rastor posted:Lightning Knight does a good job
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May 14, 2020 19:15
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What's the War & Peace thread
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May 14, 2020 19:18
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Jewel Repetition posted:What's the War & Peace thread a thread about war and peace
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May 14, 2020 19:20
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Jewel Repetition posted:What's the War & Peace thread it's where thesis and antithesis meet and goatsethesis occurs.   
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May 14, 2020 19:20
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:I'll put out that I think it's weird that anytime we start to gain traction or make progress towards viewing ourselves and other parts of the site as people with flaws rather than monsters (while validly criticizing mods) that our outlet for those discussions get taken away, most likely because mods and admins are feeling bad and demanding that happen. When Squizzle and I workshopped this thread as an idea in March, the idea was to do it quarterly. it was always the intent for it to be this way, and I do apologize that I have given you this impression. oxsnard posted:i think before it closes we need to have clarification on what "calls for violence" means. That's honestly my biggest concern. I think we all understand that "PERSON X needs to be assassinated" or "let's firebomb Ted Cruz's office" are not ok, but part of leftism should be in discussing the utility of violence in protesting or pushback against oppression. What about guillotine chat? Or saying "in a just world, Jeff Bezos would be hung for his crimes against society." I don't know if you can draw clear lines, but I'd appreciate more color on this since lots of the QCS activity seems to revolve around this very topic I don’t think I can give a satisfactory answer to this on my phone at work but I will try to when I am done with work.
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May 14, 2020 19:21
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Lightning Knight posted:When Squizzle and I workshopped this thread as an idea in March, the idea was to do it quarterly. it was always the intent for it to be this way, and I do apologize that I have given you this impression. I'm not trying to call you or anyone out on it, I just think it's a mistake to close it when there's been a modicum of forward movement. And we all know it's because of hurt feelings and not because it's time to unfurl the "Mission Accomplished" banner
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May 14, 2020 19:24
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I think that closing this thread while continuing to crack down on, I guess call them meta-forum discussions, in other parts of CSPAM would be a bad idea.
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May 14, 2020 19:24
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i have been given power and you shall know that i deserve it because i shall never use it
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May 14, 2020 19:31
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I also really think this thread should be left open, or at least there should be a discussion thread in a non-honeypot forum.
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May 14, 2020 19:33
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Rastor posted:Fluffdaddy does a poo poo job and QCS is lovely and allowing obsessives to continue delving deeper into their paranoia that C-SPAM is a breeding ground for terrorist activity or whatever is lovely yea I'm sorry but he hasn't earned charity, his behaviour is unacceptable and I've had to reprimand supervisors with the same horrendous attitude toward dealing with people before
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May 14, 2020 19:37
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docbeard posted:I think that closing this thread while continuing to crack down on, I guess call them meta-forum discussions, in other parts of CSPAM would be a bad idea. I like CSPAM, but I really don't understand why people here need to have meta-forum discussions at all. I get that it's useful to have a place for feedback without QCS concern trolls, but some of the posters ITT seems seem to see CSPAM as some sort forums vanguard with an imperative to police the forums community at large. What does fluffdaddy's moderation style, or whether jeffrey is friends with fyad-adjacent posters have to do with the quality of CSPAM? There's no irl praxis in leading a revolution on a dead web 1.0 comedy forum.
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May 14, 2020 19:39
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SKULL.GIF posted:I don't think we need an explicit rule (and rules like these suck anyway) but I don't think it'd hurt to have a *communal* gentle emphasis on encouraging people to chill a little when they're getting really worked up or really stressed out. It's healthier for the posters and healthier for the discourse. i fully agree with this, but i can't help but laugh at calling for the maintenance of norms in cspam
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May 14, 2020 19:39
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TheSlutPit posted:I like CSPAM, but I really don't understand why people here need to have meta-forum discussions at all. I get that it's useful to have a place for feedback without QCS concern trolls, but some of the posters ITT seems seem to see CSPAM as some sort forums vanguard with an imperative to police the forums community at large. quote:What does fluffdaddy's moderation style, or whether jeffrey is friends with fyad-adjacent posters have to do with the quality of CSPAM? quote:There's no irl praxis in leading a revolution on a dead web 1.0 comedy forum.
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May 14, 2020 19:45
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TheSlutPit posted:I like CSPAM, but I really don't understand why people here need to have meta-forum discussions at all. I get that it's useful to have a place for feedback without QCS concern trolls, but some of the posters ITT seems seem to see CSPAM as some sort forums vanguard with an imperative to police the forums community at large. What does fluffdaddy's moderation style, or whether jeffrey is friends with fyad-adjacent posters have to do with the quality of CSPAM? There's no irl praxis in leading a revolution on a dead web 1.0 comedy forum. lmao
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May 14, 2020 19:50
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Yeah, the people say "you shouldn't drop slurs on the forum" aren't part of some grand conspiracy try and turn SA into an Antifa Supersoldier Cell, they're just trying to make the forums better. I think many of the people saying that calls to violence can spiral out of hand think the same way - they aren't right-wing bootlicks trying to cover for somebody, they are just trying to make the forums better - even if I think a lot of the calls are disingenuous concern trolling.
Chillgamesh has issued a correction as of 19:54 on May 14, 2020 |
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May 14, 2020 19:52
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TheSlutPit posted:I like CSPAM, but I really don't understand why people here need to have meta-forum discussions at all. I get that it's useful to have a place for feedback without QCS concern trolls, but some of the posters ITT seems seem to see CSPAM as some sort forums vanguard with an imperative to police the forums community at large. What does fluffdaddy's moderation style, or whether jeffrey is friends with fyad-adjacent posters have to do with the quality of CSPAM? There's no irl praxis in leading a revolution on a dead web 1.0 comedy forum. you will be first against the wall 
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May 14, 2020 19:52
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Lightning Knight posted:I don’t think I can give a satisfactory answer to this on my phone at work but I will try to when I am done with work. i would appreciate this because outside of some particular heinous examples that already resulted in bans most everything ive seen anyone use as an example has been weaker than a stand up comic on just for laughs tv-14 i would also like cspam to have rotating iks chosen via random number tyia
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May 14, 2020 19:54
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:
Yeah this post got a 3 day probe  Sheng-Ji Yang posted:If you are a Communist you believe in and advocate for violent revolution, unless youre a dumb communist.
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May 14, 2020 19:57
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empathizing heavily with mods who anticipate the need to shut this thread down rn e: however, leaving a suggestion box thread permanently open would be a good idea, you'd just have to establish ground rules such as "no cheezer wrappers, used condoms, or comments on QCS moderation in the CSPAM suggestion box" Dustcat has issued a correction as of 20:01 on May 14, 2020 |
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May 14, 2020 19:57
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While we're circling back to this, want to comment once again that Ytlaya getting a week for an absurdist morbid joke is stupid as poo poo.
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May 14, 2020 19:58
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TheSlutPit posted:I like CSPAM, but I really don't understand why people here need to have meta-forum discussions at all. I get that it's useful to have a place for feedback without QCS concern trolls, but some of the posters ITT seems seem to see CSPAM as some sort forums vanguard with an imperative to police the forums community at large. What does fluffdaddy's moderation style, or whether jeffrey is friends with fyad-adjacent posters have to do with the quality of CSPAM? There's no irl praxis in leading a revolution on a dead web 1.0 comedy forum. Some folks have already addressed the more interesting aspects of your premise here, but some reasons why I think we need a general "talk about state of CSPAM" thread, even if it goes beyond the remit of things that CSPAM moderators can do anything tangible about : 1) Sometimes decisions (like who the moderators in QCS are) are made that affect people in CSPAM and even if there's nothing to be done about them getting them out in the open in a semi-controlled way can serve a purpose rather than letting them fester til they explode. 2) If something that does need to be hashed out in public does go down, it may not be able to wait until the quarterly Shaking Of The Sheets. 3) QCS isn't really, right now, in a position to provide this service to anyone, much less folks in CSPAM. Ideally it would be but, well, here we are. There's absolutely a healthy and an unhealthy way to do this, but I don't think "not doing it at all" is the healthiest option.
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May 14, 2020 19:59
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Honestly it'd just be nice to have more insight into how mods view these issues, what their priorities are, and how they view the different voices. Because a lot of my concern is the fact that the people calling for the closure of C-Spam keep getting told that every argument is listened to and no one in qcs believes in bad faith arguments. And while I do think there are people with real concerns about death threats and child harassment (they're dumb don't do it) I'd also like to know that the people who are pretty much going "Why do all those r-words keep making death threats" are not taken seriously and are recognized as just being troublemakers. Overall I feel like we're in a weird spot where no one really wants to take responsibility or be the bad guy. We give a lot of people a lot of room to be really awful people instead of just showing them the door. Even though one of SA's biggest selling points is that people can actually be told to leave.
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May 14, 2020 20:02
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hmmmm just a lttl disappointed i didnt need th power of stats 2 prove nonplat need 2 report is nonplat ability to report localized to cspam or forums wide? seattle plague rat has issued a correction as of 20:04 on May 14, 2020 |
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May 14, 2020 20:02
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Dustcat posted:empathizing heavily with mods who anticipate the need to shut this thread down rn I do empathize with the fact that right now the CSPAM mods are basically stuck in a no-win situation for themselves and that this thread is probably an anxiety bomb for some, and that the problems behind the current thread situation weren't caused by them. It's one thing for me, a low effort shitposter nobody, to call out egregious behaviour on the part of a moderator and question the judgement of even placing them in a position of authority to begin with, it's quite another when you actually have to work with those people in your volunteer position.
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May 14, 2020 20:04
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Oh Snapple! posted:While we're circling back to this, want to comment once again that Ytlaya getting a week for an absurdist morbid joke is stupid as poo poo. It might not have deserved a week but that post was off-putting and not funny. Also I might be remembering this wrong but didn't they decide a while back there wouldn't be violent fantasies in the guillotine thread because people were posting too many of them?
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May 14, 2020 20:07
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QCS: "the politics forum i don't like is discussing calls for violence" CSPAM poster: "here is some color on the political history of how violence is discussed and the utility of it. Where should we draw the line?" QCS MOD: "3 day probation for politics discussion directly related to the complaint in this thread" edit: to be clear, I understand that LK can't make QCS changes, but what we can do is have better guidelines around this topic and when another idiotic thread in QCS pops up, LK can point to the rules/guidelines and say "here's why this wasn't a permaban, now please close this thread" oxsnard has issued a correction as of 20:10 on May 14, 2020 |
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May 14, 2020 20:08
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Jewel Repetition posted:It might not have deserved a week but that post was off-putting and not funny. Also I might be remembering this wrong but didn't they decide a while back there wouldn't be violent fantasies in the guillotine thread because people were posting too many of them? Yeah, I'd agree it deserved something as a "hey guys, don't do this poo poo" message, but a week feels a little punitive, especially for Ytlaya, whose primary CSPAM-relevant sin up to this point has been writing in complete sentences. If we're treating that as an actual, actionable threat against actual people, then something's gone horribly wrong. e. And bear in mind that I've probably got the most terminal case of decorum poisoning in CSPAM this side of Spiderhyphenman. docbeard has issued a correction as of 20:21 on May 14, 2020 |
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May 14, 2020 20:13
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Oh Snapple! posted:While we're circling back to this, want to comment once again that Ytlaya getting a week for an absurdist morbid joke is stupid as poo poo. Mods try too hard to be nice and so they stoop and bow given the opportunity. Imagine staking a position and defending it, horrifying stuff.
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May 14, 2020 20:18
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Jewel Repetition posted:It might not have deserved a week but that post was off-putting and not funny. Also I might be remembering this wrong but didn't they decide a while back there wouldn't be violent fantasies in the guillotine thread because people were posting too many of them? Yeah the guillotine thread has been locked and people have been punished several times for veering a little hard from "look at this rear end in a top hat" into "i, forums poster goon420, want to personally execute this rear end in a top hat". As I've said though I think that is a problem with mock threads in general though and not really something cspam specific, and I agree with oxsnard that there just needs to be a clear set of rules on what is and isn't acceptable, as well as how a breach of those rules will be handled. I also really think people shouldn't treat "eat the rich" the same as "I think all of us should get together and wait outside x's house until he walks out and bushwack him". I understand how distinguishing between the two might be difficult, but forums rules on acceptable speech have always been very vague and handled on a case-by-base basis since the beginning and I see no reason why this should be handled any differently. Chillgamesh has issued a correction as of 20:23 on May 14, 2020 |
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May 14, 2020 20:21
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docbeard posted:Yeah, I'd agree it deserved something as a "hey guys, don't do this poo poo" message, but a week feels a little punitive, especially for Ytlaya, whose primary CSPAM-relevant sin up to this point has been writing in complete sentences. The initial day probe was mostly fine for this imo, as I've stated previously, with the only real problem with it being that it was done with 0 consideration of what else was happening on the forums at the time and that it would put Ytlaya in the crosshairs of all the shitheads having a fit in QCS. And I'll also repeat my earlier point that a probe accomplished absolutely nothing that just saying something to Ytlaya wouldn't have. It's Ytlaya for god's sake. The week is ridiculous on its own merits, and only gets moreso if it came as a result of QCS
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May 14, 2020 20:23
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