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Labour had massive majorities in the remain areas, and paper thin majorities in the leave areas. Should have told stammer and Adonis to take a hike, and gently caress off like all the House of Lords, and then done what was right as socialists (brexit) and leave the German co-prosperity sphere. Not like Murdoch or the Granuid could smear him more.Frosted Flake posted:lol funny that Amber just wrote an article about how useless radlibs are. Amber is right as always. hate that “progressive stack” nonsense, left the DSA because of weird poo poo like that.
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May 15, 2020 16:35
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:you mentioned earlier you admired the vanguard parties where they could just talk about things behind closed doors, but i think the reason why that works for them to an extent is because they have a basis to have a healthy debate without ruling out critiques that may be dumb or bad or have some problems with them as a priori part of a plot by hostile outside forces bent on division -- or at least being better able to distinguish between the two I often come to repeat that: a major difficulty that Sanders and Corbyn experiences have come to reinforce is that we are developing novel ways of leftist organization that, after the fall of the USSR and a gap of thirty-plus years of neoliberal fuckery in terms of "inherited tradition", require continued effort and analysis. A reason why sort-of vanguards are being reinvented as a viable option is exactly that: create a mode of organization with extreme prejudice against liberal norms of discourse in the sense that, in an environment of abundant sincerity and comradeship, one can ask and put forward any idea and get told "alright, you have good intentions, but here why this is extremely loving bad in many ways". Hell, Brutalist McDonalds linked those stav videos and the spirit of the matter is that: get the dumbass guy on your side to feel comfortable to ask what most of us here regard as abominably stupid things in an environment that allows him to get it. The primary benefit of that is that even though friction will happen, ultimately fosters an ambient of cooperation, camaraderie and honesty among all when everyone puts effort in sincerity and good faith. Amongst the secondary, the most important is the natural emergence of cohesion and mutual effective discourse - something better than a "party line" - that comes off without effort and carries discipline without enforcement. Those are the things that win.
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May 15, 2020 16:37
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Panzeh posted:yeah it's always gonna be a tough sell that "hey guys, you're basically the beneficiaries of a historical process where most of the world's wealth was plundered and brought to your country so of course people from thoroughly looted countries want to come there" compared to "lol immigration is a neolib plot" or "immigration is an invasion egged on by the 'globalists' to destroy your culture and genocide you" There's options. Emphasising that they have more in common with the immigrants than with the people in charge, and that immigration should not be a problem when you can just pay people to build more infrastructure. Counter the ideas of false scarcity. MizPiz posted:Stupidpol types are not nazis themselves, but they're the types who desperately wish they could they could be ironic nazis I actually have no idea what stupidpol is and it sounds weird That said I've always been pretty sure liberals are desperately jealous of and wish they could be chuds
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May 15, 2020 16:41
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All that stuff about how Corbyn would have been pilloried by the media and by parts of his party if he took a stand on Leave seems kinda hollow because he was pilloried by the media regardless, and the right-wing of his party outright manufactured an ad campaign that did not exist to make him believe that they were following his direction when they weren't, and Labour took a historic loss. How much worse could it have gotten?
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May 15, 2020 16:46
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Galloway will set it all right. Britain deserves him.
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May 15, 2020 16:50
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dead gay comedy forums posted:Hell, Brutalist McDonalds linked those stav videos and the spirit of the matter is that: get the dumbass guy on your side to feel comfortable to ask what most of us here regard as abominably stupid things in an environment that allows him to get it.
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May 15, 2020 17:02
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contrapoints cringe video has a massive payoff that I was not expecting, her pseudo-psychoanalysis of her sentiments of cringe in regards to "trans lesbian catgirls", that she explains projection just right before and the fact that she made her socialist character of a while back around one is... wow, that would've been great material in an actual session it is a reasonably good video overall as social commentary, but I thought she would have stopped "attempt at self-analysis through youtube" format by now
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May 15, 2020 17:22
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whats cool about the stupidpol posters here is you have to wonder what kind of poo poo they would say if they weren’t worried about getting banned from cspam lol. like what are your Real opinions on immigrants, buddy? at least they have enough sense of shame to beat around the bush
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May 15, 2020 17:52
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I kind of want to find out what stupidpol is but I don't want to potentially expose myself to it unfiltered
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May 15, 2020 17:58
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the amber article reads like nerd rage circa 2009 about being forced to swap their arena comp up because of balance changes. like 2000000000 words dripping with the intense anger of a thousand suns over the most trivial poo poo imaginable edit: just realized I should specify that i think it owns and she should do more of it because it's funny
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May 15, 2020 18:07
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gradenko_2000 posted:All that stuff about how Corbyn would have been pilloried by the media and by parts of his party if he took a stand on Leave seems kinda hollow because he was pilloried by the media regardless, and the right-wing of his party outright manufactured an ad campaign that did not exist to make him believe that they were following his direction when they weren't, and Labour took a historic loss. It could not have gotten worse, that's not the point. I think we're just saying a pro-Brexit stance is unlikely to have helped matters as far as the election goes. I still would have liked for Corbyn to have told everyone to suck it, but I believe the only actual path to victory, at the very least at the point where Labour's EU stance became a hot button issue, was to avoid the split at all.
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May 15, 2020 18:07
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Brexit is basically a policy proposed, pursued and discussed in the dumbest possible fashion to the point where I think it was no longer possible to make good decisions around it.
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May 15, 2020 18:09
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Just remembered something Amber was wrong about: Corbyn was tougher than Sanders
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May 15, 2020 18:12
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Kind of the problem though is liberals eagerly contribute to this, and generally are almost incapable of understanding the existence of say, minorities living in red states, queer people disproportionately being homeless and/or sex workers due to being thrown out of or having to run away from their homes, and so on. It's basically the same formula as white feminism; issues of prejudice are appropriated by the upper-class scions who happen to fall within a discriminated category and ultimately only recognise issues that directly relate to them, often seeing any other or broader issues getting any focus as a threat to their agenda. They aren't the only kind of wreckers in leftist movements and probably not even a significant percentage of them in the big picture, but they're very visible and very annoying to everyone involved there's a great article in the boston review about this: https://bostonreview.net/race/olufemi-o-taiwo-identity-politics-and-elite-capture
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May 15, 2020 18:15
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MizPiz posted:Just remembered something Amber was wrong about : In what sense? If we're talking as far as bowing to centrists Corbyn had to be forced to while Bernie did so by his own volition. I do, very slightly, respect the former more.
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May 15, 2020 18:16
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thotsky posted:In what sense? If we're talking as far as bowing to centrists Corbyn had to be forced to while Bernie did so by his own volition. I do, very slightly, respect the former more. It's that
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May 15, 2020 18:18
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MizPiz posted:Just remembered something Amber was wrong about : its true
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May 15, 2020 18:22
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THS posted:whats cool about the stupidpol posters here is you have to wonder what kind of poo poo they would say if they weren’t worried about getting banned from cspam lol. like what are your Real opinions on immigrants, buddy? at least they have enough sense of shame to beat around the bush I would like to think that the stupidpol crowd started as actual leftists responding to the influx of libs in leftist spaces in the early part of the trump era. But, lacking the framework to just reject the lib politics outright, they just decided to create their own little splinter group actively hostile to any discussion of identity and its affect on reactionary politics. This in turn opened the door to actual red-brown types who want left-populism without all those dang immigrant, minorities and queer folks, and now here we are. IMO it's really a cautionary tale as to the importance of understanding fascist creep in left-wing spaces, and historical ways in which reactionaries have infiltrated progressive movements.
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May 15, 2020 18:26
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How many red-brown folks are there, really, in leftist spaces? I see plenty of people who became leftists without shedding a lot of nasty attitudes and habits, but actual Strasserists or Nazbols or TWP type people? Really? I doubt that the stupidpol crowd isn't itself made up of people who became leftists around the 2016 election. Hell, maybe the stupidpol vs. woke fracas is the story of 2012 leftists vs. 2016 leftists, so to speak. Idunno.
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May 15, 2020 18:36
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identifying as a leftist in 2020 basically just means lolling at the correct marx memes. i'm sure there's plenty of internet weirdos with bad takes about politics that call themselves leftists because the sonic picture about consumption resonated with them
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May 15, 2020 18:41
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amber was wrong about people not caring about media when the antisemitism accusations were manufactured, and maybe even corbyn's attitude on brexit they made it a issue
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May 15, 2020 18:46
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Ambers identification of these markets assholes from Masterclass is really cool, reminds me of who i used to work with in the games industry. She even drops a few names and projects that were obvious game scams back in the day. And lmao that they both roast both Gone Home and Firewatch
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May 15, 2020 18:46
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Siljmonster posted:Ambers identification of these markets assholes from Masterclass is really cool, reminds me of who i used to work with in the games industry. She even drops a few names and projects that were obvious game scams back in the day. And lmao that they both roast both Gone Home and Firewatch it's time to reevaluate gone home
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May 15, 2020 18:49
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Halloween Jack posted:How many red-brown folks are there, really, in leftist spaces? I see plenty of people who became leftists without shedding a lot of nasty attitudes and habits, but actual Strasserists or Nazbols or TWP type people? Really? I don't think there are actually many secret fascists in leftist spaces, but I think there is an increasing presence of alt-right/Tucker Carlson types (especially online) who have learned to 'say the loud part quiet' so to speak with respect to the reactionary parts of their ideology. The concern is less about DSA chapters turning red-brown, and more about people who would normally be sympathetic to left wing causes getting convinced that we could have socialism if all those SJWs would just shut the gently caress up.
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May 15, 2020 18:49
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i cared about the dad in gone home
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May 15, 2020 18:50
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Lady Militant posted:the amber article reads like nerd rage circa 2009 about being forced to swap their arena comp up because of balance changes. like 2000000000 words dripping with the intense anger of a thousand suns over the most trivial poo poo imaginable The main thing I got from Amber's article is she's getting real horny in lockdown.
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May 15, 2020 18:56
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TheSlutPit posted:The concern is less about DSA chapters turning red-brown, and more about people who would normally be sympathetic to left wing causes getting convinced that we could have socialism if all those SJWs would just shut the gently caress up.
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May 15, 2020 18:57
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Often Abbreviated posted:The main thing I got from Amber's article is she's getting real horny in lockdown. turn on your monitor
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May 15, 2020 18:57
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Honest Thief posted:amber was wrong about people not caring about media when the antisemitism accusations were manufactured, and maybe even corbyn's attitude on brexit British voters don't give a gently caress about antisemitism, they might have cared about the IRA smears.
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May 15, 2020 18:59
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TheSlutPit posted:I would like to think that the stupidpol crowd started as actual leftists responding to the influx of libs in leftist spaces in the early part of the trump era. But, lacking the framework to just reject the lib politics outright, they just decided to create their own little splinter group actively hostile to any discussion of identity and its affect on reactionary politics. This in turn opened the door to actual red-brown types who want left-populism without all those dang immigrant, minorities and queer folks, and now here we are. Stupidpol is just like a forum or subreddit or any other online platform, different groups of people are on it at the same time to entertain themselves, it's not a group with any mandate. Assuming that any users politics is an amalgam of every other users beliefs is incorrect. If it were an actual political entity than sure, but lol at that idea. Stupidpol is mostly about confirmed libs, like American journalists or literal centrist political parties, doing stupid things surrounding identity. It's basically the same as half of C-spam, except they call things "retarded" more. fwiw I see plenty of posts in stupidpol directly addressing the exploitation of minorities, and any users on it who actually does labour or marxist political work is de facto working with and for the benefit of minorities, and presumably knows it.
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May 15, 2020 19:05
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Honest Thief posted:it's time to reevaluate gone home its time to reevaluate all video games
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May 15, 2020 19:05
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Gone Home was only a storytelling device. Its story could have been delivered in any other medium and it would have been acceptable. Myst was the pioneer and the perfectionist to the walking sim.
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May 15, 2020 19:06
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Siljmonster posted:its time to reevaluate all video games Dmitri-9 posted:British voters don't give a gently caress about antisemitism, they might have cared about the IRA smears. they got to care enough to talk incessantly about corbyn's deviousness in saying zionists dont get irony
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May 15, 2020 19:09
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Siljmonster posted:Gone Home was only a storytelling device. Its story could have been delivered in any other medium and it would have been acceptable. there is a specific feeling in investigating a space and slowly building a guess at what happened to the people who lived in it. it's not video-game-specific (there's installation/theater pieces that do the same thing), but it's not conveyable by any medium.
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May 15, 2020 19:10
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A big issue with the nazbol strasserite panic is that it discounts how fragmented online spaces are. I don't think most chuds want to socialize in leftist spaces, and the few who do generally can't help themselves when it comes to making their lovely position known. Clashes seem to mostly happen in the few shared arenas that exist, like newspaper comment fields, and in any case it's rarely insidious infiltration, but obvious trolling and propagandizing.
thotsky has issued a correction as of 19:14 on May 15, 2020 |
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May 15, 2020 19:11
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Gone Home lead to liberal suburbanites rushing out to buy up urban homes and buildings to turn into 'Escape Rooms'.
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May 15, 2020 19:11
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Panzeh posted:As has been said before, they are all similar to or precisely NYC media people, even if they didn't start that way. Saying they have their fingers on the pulse of the Working Class while supporting policies of mass-brutalizing immigrants is quite off-base. I don't trust people who write for established media to give good advice to the "left," but social media personalities are compromised as well. expecting theory to be produced by people who need engagement with their content for part of their livelihood is flawed. we're going to keep elevating people for the hottest takes if we follow that model. "woke" culture where people primarily view themselves as victims of different oppressive systems because of their identity is partly a result of neoliberal hegemony. people can correctly identity that they're oppressed, often times because they belong to specific groups facing special oppression, and are pissed about it. if they live in a north atlantic country, they know they're living a harder life than their parents. due to the limits of neoliberal thought, they can't comprehend any sort of class politics on their own though. getting upset at regular working people for subscribing to ID pol isn't all that different from writing off older people for being racist. honestly the white rural and exurban young people that talk about themselves as survivors of the opiod epidemic are really following the same logic as a lot of young people in urban areas who view themselves as primarily survivors of bigotry. jodi dean has a good quick criticism of this in one article, it's tied up in criticism of the tendency to only look at "systems" so I'm cutting a lot out. the main thrust of the whole article is we need vanguard organizations where people can trust each other and work professionally together https://www.e-flux.com/journal/86/160585/four-theses-on-the-comrade/ quote:Two opposed tendencies dominate contemporary left theory and activism: survivors and systems. The first inhabits social media, academic environments, and some activist networks. It is voiced through intense attachment to identity and appeals to intersectionality. The second predominates in more aesthetic and conceptual venues as a post-humanist concern with geology, extinction, algorithms, “hyperobjects,” bio-systems, and planetary exhaustion. On the one side, we have survivors, those with nothing left to cling to but their identities, often identities forged through struggles to survive and attached to the pain and trauma of these struggles. On the other, we have systems, processes operating at a scale so vast, so complex, that we can scarcely conceive them let alone affect them. Atrocious Joe has issued a correction as of 19:15 on May 15, 2020 |
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May 15, 2020 19:12
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gh0stpinballa posted:people tell me that LF was a true golden age of sophisticated witty leftist posting and cspam is but a limp replacement and then i read things like this i think LF gets respect from its effort posts. today we have a more active left so people who would type something up are channeling their energy into other actions. we also have more ways to create content now. if instead of a podcast ep you typed up some big posts about the brabant killers, it'd be more like classic LF.
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May 15, 2020 19:17
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dead gay comedy forums posted:watching contrapoints' latest after a long while, and how did she get to the 1h20m mark is already intriguing I thought it was pretty good
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May 15, 2020 19:20
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Honest Thief posted:all the final fantasies are good, the rest are dumb games Just because it seems like there is a million newspaper columnists in the Pedoph Isles doesn't mean there are a million newspaper columnists voting.
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May 15, 2020 19:26
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