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Fojar38 posted:I mean, the idea is still that you can "win" a nuclear war if the other guy can't hit back as hard as you can hit him. Theoretically, a situation where the US destroys most of China's arsenal in a first strike but misses a few launchers, which devastate LA and Seattle in turn, would still be an American "victory" because the USA would still have fighting capacity in this situation while China wouldn't. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DGNZnfKYnU
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May 15, 2020 10:26
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drat wargames was awesome I'm gonna watch that tonight maybe.
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May 15, 2020 10:53
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And now we know why TSMC is building a fab in the US after decades of refusing to build anywhere but Taiwan. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/15/us-china-tensions-rise-as-trump-administration-moves-to-cut-huawei-off-from-global-chip-suppliers.html This would be pretty crazy if it goes through in full effect. It basically would cut Huawei off from nearly every fab in the world.
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May 15, 2020 17:32
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The junk collector posted:And now we know why TSMC is building a fab in the US after decades of refusing to build anywhere but Taiwan. And good luck to China setting it up themselves: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-idUSKBN1Z50HN
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May 15, 2020 19:54
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The junk collector posted:And now we know why TSMC is building a fab in the US after decades of refusing to build anywhere but Taiwan. Hell yeah
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May 15, 2020 21:19
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The junk collector posted:And now we know why TSMC is building a fab in the US after decades of refusing to build anywhere but Taiwan. This is a really really good example of why China isn't a superpower The most potent non-military thing that China can do to influence other countries is threaten to deny it access to the Chinese market, whereas the most potent non-military thing that the USA can do is threaten to deny another country access to the global economy Actually, that's not even the most potent non-military thing that the USA can do because it doesn't even get into SWIFT
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May 15, 2020 21:46
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You fools, China will recover from this setback more powerful than ever!!!!!!
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May 15, 2020 21:47
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Taiwan = 51st state. President Trump will declare it in his next term. Welcome to the Union, Taiwanese brothers.
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May 15, 2020 21:47
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Dandywalken posted:You fools, China will recover from this setback more powerful than ever!!!!!! scrambling to write my article about how NOW China is going to really start trying to develop its own chips as though they haven't been trying for decades
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May 15, 2020 21:50
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Just how big of a poo poo fit would China throw if trump even mentioned taiwan and NATO in the same sentence
Nicodemus Dumps fucked around with this message at 02:11 on May 16, 2020 |
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May 15, 2020 21:51
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Wasn't that a Tom Clancy novel?
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May 15, 2020 21:55
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popewiles posted:Just how big of a poo poo fit would China throw if trump even mentioned tawain and NATO in the same sentence JUST IMAGINE 
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May 15, 2020 22:08
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Here is an interesting interview with the NZ foreign minster/Deputy PM. Boils down to yeah, nah. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/he...o-into-lockdown quote:Foreign Minister Winston Peters has revealed China tried to dissuade New Zealand from going into lockdown. Dont Touch ME posted:Taiwan = 51st state. President Trump will declare it in his next term. If I was Taiwanese that's terrifying. A hail mary for Hong Kong maybe.
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May 15, 2020 23:06
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If the US went to war with China over Taiwan and/or Hong Kong, at least for once we could finally mean it when we said we were there to liberate people.
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May 15, 2020 23:09
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There are so many people in China that liberating them from communist oppression would be one of the greatest moral triumphs of all time in terms of how much good it did for how many people.
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May 15, 2020 23:13
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hakimashou posted:There are so many people in China that liberating them from communist oppression would be one of the greatest moral triumphs of all time in terms of how much good it did for how many people. Most people aren't oppressed in China and I think you would find that the vast majority of people in the country are happy with the state of things. Well, at least before the Coronavirus.
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May 15, 2020 23:22
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Cheesemaster200 posted:Most people aren't oppressed in China and I think you would find that the vast majority of people in the country are happy with the state of things. Well, at least before the Coronavirus. Oh word?
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May 15, 2020 23:23
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Aye!!!
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May 15, 2020 23:26
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Cheesemaster200 posted:Most people aren't oppressed in China and I think you would find that the vast majority of people in the country are happy with the state of things. Well, at least before the Coronavirus. Kind of a tough call when it's literally illegal for them to say otherwise
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May 15, 2020 23:55
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I've seen Chinese students here go months, sometimes years, toeing the party line until one day they'll just snap and open up about how miserable they were in China Anecdotal obviously but it leaves an impression.
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May 16, 2020 00:01
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Devils Affricate posted:Kind of a tough call when it's literally illegal for them to say otherwise "So how do you like living in China?" "Ohh, I can't complain." "Wow, is it really that nice over there?" "No, you don't understand. I. Can. Not. Complain." "Wow! China must really be a great place then!" And thus another Tankie is born.
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May 16, 2020 00:12
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I guess I should have clarified on what you term as "oppressed". To me, oppression is what you have in North Korea. Nazi Germany oppressed the people they invaded and occupied. Living happily in a society that lacks freedoms of other societies, but where one can function and prosper isn't oppression to me. Singapore is a single party nanny state that lacks significant freedoms to both the press and speech. However I would guess few people in Singapore would consider themselves oppressed due to the benefits that their society bestows on them. I think there is a similar condition in China. So long as society is improving (which it has been for decades), I think the Chinese people accept the fewer freedoms in exchange. I have always said that China will have much more unrest once their economy starts to go south and the government doesn't hold up their side of the bargain.
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May 16, 2020 00:22
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oohhboy posted:Here is an interesting interview with the NZ foreign minster/Deputy PM. Boils down to yeah, nah. For anyone not up on NZ politics, it should be known that Winnie P is a top tier troll and poo poo stirrer, which is funny as gently caress.
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May 16, 2020 00:53
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Cheesemaster200 posted:I guess I should have clarified on what you term as "oppressed". Im trying to think of what could possibly prevent chinese people from expressing disapproval of their government or discontent with the way it treats them, but I just cant think of any reason why they wouldn't be outspoken about that stuff.
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May 16, 2020 01:37
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hakimashou posted:Im trying to think of what could possibly prevent chinese people from expressing disapproval of their government or discontent with the way it treats them, but I just cant think of any reason why they wouldn't be outspoken about that stuff. <orders Addidas* socks off of Aliexpress> <selects 6 pair> <Types in Address> <4th Building, Floor 19, unit #89> <completes transaction> <is emailed a confirmation/receipt> <20 cops with clubs barge into his apartment 5 hours later> *they were knock-offs
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May 16, 2020 02:03
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Cheesemaster200 posted:I guess I should have clarified on what you term as "oppressed". So what about the Uyghurs? Like NBD?
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May 16, 2020 02:16
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MarcusSA posted:So what about the Uyghurs? I don’t think anyone is disputing that the CCP is an authoritarian regime that is suppressing human rights, with certain minority groups being the victims of especially egregious treatment. But people in this thread in particular should have a more nuanced view of the typical Chinese citizen than the idea of terrorized peasants crying themselves to sleep while their party-assigned minder stands over them with a billy club.
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May 16, 2020 02:34
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Blistex posted:<orders Addidas* socks off of Aliexpress> Obviously fake. Nobody would live in building 4.
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May 16, 2020 02:41
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Cheesemaster200 posted:I guess I should have clarified on what you term as "oppressed". That's along the lines of "What do you mean I'm racist? I'm not wearing bedsheets and going to KKK rallies, am I? So leave me alone!". Of course they're oppressed, even if they're fine with it.
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May 16, 2020 03:18
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screamin and creamin posted:That's along the lines of "What do you mean I'm racist? I'm not wearing bedsheets and going to KKK rallies, am I? So leave me alone!". Of course they're oppressed, even if they're fine with it. Huh? How exactly do you define "oppression" then?
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May 16, 2020 03:25
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I am not sure what to make of this conversation. And I'm not really sure what definition people are using for 'oppressed'. The party is a terrible thing. It does things to all Chinese citizens that make their lives worse. Especially minorities who are straight up hosed. Tons of people do keep quiet because they're afraid of the repercussions (the loud angry people online only look like the majority because everything else gets removed or people are afraid of getting in trouble or shouted down by idiots. Same reason you gotta choose your arguments on Facebook with boomers carefully). But I don't know if it's useful or right to use the word oppressed for everyone. Unless you wanna say the vast majority of people in the world even in developed countries are oppressed. Which honestly I can get behind that. Even the people who are critical of the party, I don't think most of them (who are average Han people in wherever) would say they're oppressed, and I don't think it's useful to try to tell them 'no really you are you just don't know it'. Like, Koreans can be critical of Korea, and I know tons who are. The south Korean government is some real bullshit when it comes to worker rights and busting up unions. Are they oppressed? Kinda, maybe, but it's a different kind of oppression than what North Koreans deal with. Maybe it's sorta like the situation in the pre-civil war American South. For the 2/3rds of white people there who didn't own slaves their lives were still lovely, but they weren't the oppressed, they were still oppressors, just less so than the slave owners. Or, as much as Nazi comparisons suck, blue eyed Aryans in Nazi Germany. It sucked, and the Nazis were oppressive, but not as much to them unless they stood out of line. And maybe that is oppression too, maybe oppression is too vague of a word to be useful used in this way.
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May 16, 2020 03:26
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Cheesemaster200 posted:Huh? What really is oppression, anyway? Makes you think.
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May 16, 2020 03:33
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The argument that they aren't being oppressed hinges on the assumption that they are "consenting" to the oppression, but it's not really consenting if there's no alternative but to hope for a revolution that topples the government. The simple fact that they aren't "trying" to escape their oppression in that regard doesn't change the fact that they are oppressed any more than the idea that you consent to being imprisoned simply because you aren't trying to stage a breakout.
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May 16, 2020 03:37
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That's what I mean though, that's a uselessly vague test for oppression. If that's the case, and if it's also the case that all the lockdowns in America are constitutional, then those dumbfucks out protesting against it really are oppressed. And, they're not, they're just idiots.
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May 16, 2020 04:05
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Jeoh posted:And good luck to China setting it up themselves: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-idUSKBN1Z50HN Oh hey I work with that tool. The fancy looking box, not the guy in the picture. Neat!
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May 16, 2020 04:12
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Fojar38 posted:The argument that they aren't being oppressed hinges on the assumption that they are "consenting" to the oppression, but it's not really consenting if there's no alternative but to hope for a revolution that topples the government. The simple fact that they aren't "trying" to escape their oppression in that regard doesn't change the fact that they are oppressed any more than the idea that you consent to being imprisoned simply because you aren't trying to stage a breakout. Man, I could write at tweet calling Xi Jinping a "Pooh Bear loser clown whose entire country is run by fuckwits and cock gargling shitheads of the highest order"......orrrrrr I could not and enjoy my nice not-in-a-reeducation-camp-not-getting-tortured-and-raped lifestyle under the benevolent party rule. Freedom of expression, freedom of conscience, freedom of association. If you lack any of these you're oppressed in some aspect. It's not an all or nothing thing. Tankies love to say 'but if they hated it so much, they'd fight back!' not realizing that anyone with anything to lose isn't going to rock the boat, until the boat itself is so horrible that the shark infested waters look nice in comparison.
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May 16, 2020 04:19
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BrainDance posted:That's what I mean though, that's a uselessly vague test for oppression. If that's the case, and if it's also the case that all the lockdowns in America are constitutional, then those dumbfucks out protesting against it really are oppressed. And, they're not, they're just idiots. Representative government and rule of law does a lot to provide legitimacy to government power.
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May 16, 2020 04:21
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hakimashou posted:There are so many people in China that liberating them from communist oppression would be one of the greatest moral triumphs of all time in terms of how much good it did for how many people. China's about as communist as North Korea is democratic
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May 16, 2020 04:32
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Sure, and I don't disagree, but then governments with all of that still do oppression, and it doesn't (or shouldn't) get them a pass to say "well you elected the oppressors" or "you have a theoretical but not practical means of ending the oppression" (which is something China can say, too). There are a lot of questionable things from Trump that there are a million threads about too, but I wouldn't say it's useful for me, a white dude, to say he's oppressing me. Like I do think the party is ridiculously oppressive. I also do think all people, everywhere in 2020 are in some way oppressed. But I think that conversation doesn't make much sense here, maybe if this was "Lefty Anarchist megathread" it would fit, but it's not. So, at best using this kind of thing we can say "China is oppressive just like everywhere, it's just generally more oppressive." If I had to make up something I think fits better I'd say maybe it's fair to say governments can be oppressive. But, for the most part, people are oppressed when an oppressive thing is done to them. These things can be constant (systemic racism, getting tossed in a re-education camp you cant get out of, or every single aspect of your life is basically one big oppression like North Korea) or they can be situational, right now I'm not oppressed, I could go out today and do something and suddenly be oppressed. Li Wenliang was oppressed the way we all are before the virus, then when he spoke out about it he... uh... got especially oppressed. That's a much more useful way to talk about oppression when you're not talking about it as a kind of global problem. BrainDance fucked around with this message at 04:40 on May 16, 2020 |
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May 16, 2020 04:37
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hakimashou posted:What really is oppression, anyway? Makes you think. It's definitely something that can be solved by whataboutism, that's for sure. I mean, isn't everyone oppressed in one way or another? And if everyone's oppressed then I guess nobody is 
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May 16, 2020 04:37
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