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StrixNebulosa posted:They play COMPLETELY differently, and you should get Dungeonmans I third this motion. Dungeonmans may seem not serious because of its mild comedic tone but rest assured, it is one of the more well thought out and designed roguelikes I have come across. Also the dev is a goon.
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May 15, 2020 18:31
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C-Euro posted:+1 for Dungeonmans, which I've been playing a ton of lately. The fact that progress is somewhat cumulative across characters made in a given world is really good for teaching people new to genre that it's OK to die sometimes. I assume it's not the only roguelike with a progression system like this but it's very clear that you're supposed to build up your academy across many characters. Or in my case, across the third character you made as a throwaway because you were mad about how your second character died, and now he just. Won't. Die. To be fair, nothing in the game forces this if you're good at it, and you actually get bigger advantages from metaprogression resources during that run than on subsequent runs. The stat-boosting items give a larger benefit to the character that finds them than subsequent characters, and academy upgrades not only occur during your run, but give you a one-time stash of consumables to use on that run. There's also the Ironman mode, which removes the metaprogression altogether.
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May 15, 2020 19:25
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Okay guys I bought dungeonmans and is playing it now. Is there a rest button? for healing my stamina. Im playing bannermans as first char
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May 15, 2020 19:52
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Might sound weird, but caves of qud is what really hooked me into roguelikes. I feel it has the perfect balance of simplicity and complexity. There’s a good amount of systems in play, but they are all well explained and easy to use. Plus I love the open world instead of halls and corridors found in most roguelikes. Bonus: the art is fantastic and original.
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May 15, 2020 19:57
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Buller posted:Okay guys I bought dungeonmans and is playing it now. Is there a rest button? for healing my stamina. Im playing bannermans as first char Ah, a gamer after my own heart. I played for a long time before discovering that you could rest. The key is 'r'; if you hit F1 you'll bring up a controls overview.
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May 15, 2020 20:17
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It has no real plot to speak of but Golden Krone Hotel is a small and mechanically condensed, well-made roguelike if one's shopping for something like that. I wrote some small tips for it in the BIP wiki when I was playing it too.
Kanfy fucked around with this message at 21:26 on May 15, 2020 |
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May 15, 2020 21:22
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poemdexter posted:Might sound weird, but caves of qud is what really hooked me into roguelikes. I feel it has the perfect balance of simplicity and complexity. There’s a good amount of systems in play, but they are all well explained and easy to use. Plus I love the open world instead of halls and corridors found in most roguelikes. I also like that it's effectively infinite and the exploration is such a big part of it.
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May 15, 2020 21:29
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Lawman 0 posted:Suffer with me in nethack op. whats your nao name?
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May 15, 2020 21:40
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power word- Jeb! posted:whats your nao name? Lawman0
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May 15, 2020 21:54
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nrook posted:There's an old SNES game called Mystery Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer, with an improved DS port, which fits the bill. It's simple and rewarding, and has a fair amount of story and a lot of character. It's not too long, either, so you don't have the soul-killing experience common in roguelikes of dying 12 hours in and losing everything. That last bit is a wild statement imo, unless you specifically mean "only the ones Chunsoft made" because they also made the incredibly good Dragon Quest MD titles. There's also a rumor that Shiren's latest game will hit PC soon but it's only been seen on the platform in a Chinese sizzle reel for Steam. (Chocobo's Mystery Dungeon on the Switch also rocks, but again, not Chunsoft.)
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May 15, 2020 22:28
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Seems like its many times easier being ranged than melee in dungeonmans. Some of the design concepts such as chasing enemies i dont understand.
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May 15, 2020 22:57
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Buller posted:Seems like its many times easier being ranged than melee in dungeonmans. Some of the design concepts such as chasing enemies i dont understand. There's a reason why the game calls rangermans "less hard mode". You don't have to have a ranged weapon but it makes life a lot easier. Note that "ranged weapon" can include spells and some bannermans techniques (and spears have reach too).
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May 15, 2020 23:39
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Lmao I snagged a wand of wishing on the second valkyrie quest level 
Lawman 0 fucked around with this message at 17:06 on May 16, 2020 |
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May 15, 2020 23:55
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Buller posted:Seems like its many times easier being ranged than melee in dungeonmans. Some of the design concepts such as chasing enemies i dont understand. Movement abilities are really, really important if you go melee. The Psychomanser skill tree has a pretty solid one that lets you backflip off of a wall - a decent choice for just one point. Alternatively, you can go to the Wizardmans skill tree and dig into Tricksonometry; I think that gives you a pretty good teleport. You need a way to replenish your mana if you're going to rely on that though, so ration your potions unless you have a more sustainable means on hand. At least one ranged attack option is also a must, if only for mopping up chaff or picking off annoyingly shy enemies. You should have some method of killing things from afar or you'll just be miserable. A plain old bow is a good choice if your other gear allows it; if not, I like the Psychomanser weapon toss, since can also add more oomph to your melee attacks. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 00:05 on May 16, 2020 |
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May 16, 2020 00:02
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A Strange Aeon posted:I'd be interested in this. I remember playing the first one for a couple of hours but bouncing off of it. For the record, Heros of Hammerwatch is a vastly different animal than the first game Hammerwatch. Hammerwatch is more akin to an arcade game based on a DnD campaign than an actual roguelike, with the only similarity being you can play it with 1 life if you're some kind of masochist. Heros of Hammerwatch lets you (and potentianally 3 other players) pick from up to 7 classes (9 if you get all the dlc) each with a different playstyle and abilities to attempt to climb up through a dungeon to get to the top and slay a dragon. You get one life each run as you kill your way through hordes of enemies, mini bosses, traps, and bosses till you finally meet Thundersnow the dragon (and probably die horribly). You'll find keys to open various kinds of chests which will arm you with various items to give you a better chance at surviving as well as a Struggling a bunch? No worries, the town you start in before each run offers you a chance to improve your character in many permanent ways! Killing enemies will earn you experience to level up your character gaining stats and stars, the stars being used to buy new abilities or improve old ones at the Guildhall! Visit the blacksmith to improve your attack power, armor, movement speed, primary attack crit chance and crit damage! Like using your abilities more, then fear not for if you find a wizard you can rescue, a magic shop will open! An Item Shop where you can spend all the gold you send down via handy elevators in the dungeon during runs to get a head start! A potion salesman to improve your health potion! And a townhall to improve all of those places and more with the ore you'll find lying around in the dungeon and send back down the elevator. Still having trouble? Start a new character of a different class, each class you manage to beat a level boss with awards you a title that gives a stats bonus to all members of your guild! There are plenty of secrets to find and classes to unlock as you climb as well, including a magic anvil that lets you craft items from ore in town, or a magical fountain that can let you add positive/negative modifiers to your run! Hell, you'll get a tavern with special drinks that range from nice boosts with trade-offs to vastly changing/enabling certain playstyles. Oh and you'll die, a lot probably, while you learn the game and experience new floors. But don't worry because their is a handy shortcut system that unlocks every time you beat a new level boss that lets you save a bunch of time if you just keep dying on the one level (Archives  ). The meta progression also aids significantly in getting further every time! Overall highly recommend, I find it a great game to load up and play while listening to a podcast or watching a stream.If you pick it up and love it, I highly recommend the pyramid DLC as well as the lunar temple, with both the class DLCs being a take it or leave it sort of thing. The campaign DLCs both add fun and different enough dungeons they're well worth challenging if you get hooked on the game. With the blurb aside, I have some issues with the game: big time sink to really get going for some of the super fun builds, once you start NG+++ looping it can feel a bit samey/slow down because enemies stop getting new attacks and the armor/resistance ramp really requires certain attunements/builds/drinks. Item builds are very RNG because you kind of just have to take what the dungeon throws at you, the devs did add a ways to manipulate and acquire key portions of your item builds at the very least. Also, Legendary items are all amazing to the point of being game winning but unfortunately you will literally never see them till probably the last level/final boss because they practically only drop from the rarest chest tier, Ace chests which lmao if you are even lucky enough to find an Ace key without certain fountain blessings or getting hella lucky. A shame really because the legendary items are pretty cool! Overall very solid 9/10 from a personal view, I wouldn't have those 343 hours if it weren't. Objectively I'd give the game a solid 8/10 rating, it definitely isn't for everyone but for those into the genre it's pretty drat fun.
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May 16, 2020 00:51
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More Dungeonmans chat: the banners are fantastically useful for anyone; stamina/mana drain, free starlight damage, and blocking enemy movement abilities are all great. I had a mage who could drop the stamina/mana drain banner and then just drop meteors every single turn because she couldn't run out of mana so long as she was hitting things. Being able to summon Mostlies is super useful for drawing heat. It's a two-point investment, sure, but it doesn't consume any important resources otherwise (unless you're going full necro). Decoymans does similarly but only works once per monster, and uses mana that you may want for other things. And of course, remember your consumables. Pin enemies that have scary melee! Cover everyone in bees! Temporarily boost your resists! Use a rocket-jump scroll to annihilate monster parties! There's a lot of consumables to keep track of and the UI for it isn't great, but at the very least make an effort to remember "oh, there's a consumable that would help in this situation" because odds are decent that you'll have it in your inventory.
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May 16, 2020 01:02
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Lawman 0 posted:Lmao I snagged a wand of wishing of wishing on the second valkyrie quest level drat, you are set! what did you wish for
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May 16, 2020 01:24
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SaffronKit posted:For the record, Heros of Hammerwatch is a vastly different animal than the first game Hammerwatch. Interesting! I bought Hammerwatch since it looked cool but quickly found out that the gameplay loop was awful beyond words for solo play (500x of same enemy, tedious kiting, punishing aggressive newbie plays). When Steam recommended the second game I mashed the No button as fast as I could as the trailer really makes them look similar. I like Roguelikes (duh), but is the actual hack&slash any less grindy?
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May 16, 2020 01:32
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I was going to ask how it is solo, as well.
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May 16, 2020 01:43
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Helianthus Annuus posted:drat, you are set! Uh two scrolls of charging, Silver dragon scale mail, fixed speed boots, a magic marker and I think I got one more wish left but I'm not sure what to spend it on. 
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May 16, 2020 01:50
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Lawman 0 posted:Uh two scrolls of charging, Silver dragon scale mail, fixed speed boots, a magic marker and I think I got one more wish left but I'm not sure what to spend it on. on my first ascension as a valkyrie i wished up a silver dragon figurine and used the resulting dragon as a mount until right before i entered the altar room at the end (a mount is just a hindrance at that point). they're kinda slow but they're really hard to kill unlike every other pet and you get to fly rather than levitate if you dragon-ride which is much more convenient if you're confident that your ascension kit is complete then it's a decent wish. make sure you've got the absolutely necessary gear first tho
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May 16, 2020 02:39
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That all sounds like a lot of nethack. Either way, that couldn't have been a poor choice at all, as the mental Image of Valkyrie on a Silver loving Dragon is pretty badass, and shame on anyone who would suggest having a Valkyrie who wasn't flying, for chistsake.
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May 16, 2020 02:47
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you can also polymorph yourself into a silver dragon and lay an egg if you have polymorph control. actually that's a pretty good choice if you don't already have it since it gets you the silver dragon too
Jazerus fucked around with this message at 03:05 on May 16, 2020 |
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May 16, 2020 03:02
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Buller posted:Seems like its many times easier being ranged than melee in dungeonmans. Some of the design concepts such as chasing enemies i dont understand. I'm playing a Ranger/Two-Hand Fighter hybrid and mowing down enemies at this point. One thing I'll say is that, unless you're really gung-ho about a certain skill tree, try to avoid maxing it out with level-ups. Skill books for certain skill trees, such as the Adventuring 101 and magic skill trees, are way more common than others like the Necromans and Bannermans skill trees. But you probably won't want to worry about mix-maxxing your first few characters. Also a point in whatever skill makes it easier to find secrets in dungeons is totally worth it, at least if you can find a skill book for it.
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May 16, 2020 03:24
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Jazerus posted:you can also polymorph yourself into a silver dragon and lay an egg if you have polymorph control. actually that's a pretty good choice if you don't already have it since it gets you the silver dragon too Oh poo poo I just realized that I do have a ring of polymorph control.
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May 16, 2020 03:26
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Serephina posted:Interesting! I bought Hammerwatch since it looked cool but quickly found out that the gameplay loop was awful beyond words for solo play (500x of same enemy, tedious kiting, punishing aggressive newbie plays). When Steam recommended the second game I mashed the No button as fast as I could as the trailer really makes them look similar. I like Roguelikes (duh), but is the actual hack&slash any less grindy? In essence, Heros of Hammerwatch still subscribes to the Gauntlet gameplay loop of bunches of dudes (with maybe some spawners) that you're going to mow through with the occasional boss to break it up and more level gimmicks occuring as you get deeper into the game to keep each level unique. It can be kind of grindy, and is certainly much less so if you have friends to play with (or find a goon who already has a full town set up and just leech on that) but for me it's a nice kind of zone out grind where you just have to be aware of certain obvious things to look out for for whatever class you're playing. It is better than Hammerwatch the first simply because even if you fail, you can try again stronger than the last time so eventually you will win.
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May 16, 2020 04:31
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Trying to unlock The Robot in Enter the Gungeon is ruining me  If I'm not misjudging a toss and landing it in a pit, I'm mistakenly leaving it behind; or it getting caught in an unreachable corner; or etc. Oof.It might be about time to hunt down other games like it, too. Latest binge has got me a good 50 hours and I need some variety 
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May 16, 2020 05:02
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Robo Reagan posted:Is there anything that fits in the baby's first Roguelike like Dungeons of Dredmor? Finally getting in to this game and I want something to look forward to when I'm done with it. Good story or humor is a huge plus. Part of the reason it's hard for me to get in to some of these balls hard games is I don't have a story or anything to keep me going. Golden Krone Hotel. Has most of the basic RL mechanics with appealing graphics and simple controls, minus the inventory juggling. It's relatively short too so a lost run isn't so rough.
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May 16, 2020 05:17
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Hmm Sproggiwood might be a good beginning roguelike. It has story, humor, multiple difficulties, many small separate dungeons, and is easy-in, easy-out gameplay. Minimal character setup before a game, multiple characters with four skills each. No complicated stats to comprehend, although the enemies have a lot of thought put into making them give rise to complicated situations.
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May 16, 2020 05:34
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Unexplored and brogue are both pretty easy to get into.
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May 16, 2020 05:45
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Excelzior posted:maybe also nerfing the massive global speed that bees and snakes naturally get whenever they spawn as randbosses think they already did that
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May 16, 2020 07:16
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LordSloth posted:Hmm Sproggiwood might be a good beginning roguelike. It has story, humor, multiple difficulties, many small separate dungeons, and is easy-in, easy-out gameplay. Minimal character setup before a game, multiple characters with four skills each. No complicated stats to comprehend, although the enemies have a lot of thought put into making them give rise to complicated situations. I second this. Sproggiwood is extremely good.
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May 16, 2020 08:05
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Nethack is a smorgasbord of bad game design choices, but I grew up with it and this thread needs more love for it and thank you to Lawman Zero for bringing it up  (My first ascension was a tourist and that's my Nethack story, thank you all for visiting)
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May 16, 2020 08:49
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My Nethack memory is being a knight trying to mount my horse on turn one, failing, and dying.
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May 16, 2020 12:33
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END ME SCOOB posted:That last bit is a wild statement imo, unless you specifically mean "only the ones Chunsoft made" because they also made the incredibly good Dragon Quest MD titles. There's also a rumor that Shiren's latest game will hit PC soon but it's only been seen on the platform in a Chinese sizzle reel for Steam. I don't think it's that crazy. I haven't played every Mystery Dungeon so I can easily believe there are some good ones, but I've played several PMDs and Shiren 3 and none of them held up as roguelikes. I did hear Shiren 3 got ruined on its way over to the US though. I would like to believe they got their mojo back.
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May 16, 2020 13:27
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Rappaport posted:Nethack is a smorgasbord of bad game design choices, but I grew up with it and this thread needs more love for it and thank you to Lawman Zero for bringing it up I'm legitimately aching for a search function good god
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May 16, 2020 13:55
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Oh yeah, that reminds me. There's been a lot of discussion of TOME over the last two pages, and reading it all, I have come to the conclusion that TOME is very bad. What's good about TOME? Why do you play it, and why should other people play it too? I tried it out a few years ago and bounced off very quickly, but that's common in roguelikes even if they're actually good.
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May 16, 2020 15:34
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Best thing about TOME is the class variety. There's some really unique stuff in there. Just take a look at the chronomancer classes. The game gets boring pretty fast playing on normal, but on Insane difficulty you can get into lots of fun fights.
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May 16, 2020 15:41
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Lawman 0 posted:Uh two scrolls of charging, Silver dragon scale mail, fixed speed boots, a magic marker and I think I got one more wish left but I'm not sure what to spend it on. well you are gonna find another wand of wishing in the castle, so go hog wild imo
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May 16, 2020 15:49
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Lawman 0 posted:Lmao I snagged a wand of wishing of wishing on the second valkyrie quest level 
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May 16, 2020 16:13
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