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Wolfsheim posted:My assumption was gonna be that the next Hitman game, whenever that is, would be its own thing Starting from scratch is a lot riskier than continuing to work with the libraries of code, art assets and voices that are already there. The story lends itself to a third act and there is a whole lot of lore (names, companies, etc) they could continue to work with before they create a new game and none of that no longer matters (Mr X? Franchise? Victoria?)
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May 16, 2020 08:36
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I mean, a third game doesn't have to contain the previous game(s) again. They obviously set up the entire story for there to be a third game, so it would still be Hitman about Diana and 47 unraveling the conspiracy. They do have supporting characters (or could invent new ones) for players to use and justify unlocking things 47 would have had access to since Paris. As long as you can unlock the really critical tools in eg. a "completionist" first run through a new map that's alright, I can come back for the dozens of guns I never use, plethora of funny explosives and all the funky suits later. But stuff like lockpicks, breaching charges or a basic silenced sniper rifle should be somewhat quick to unlock again, and if the new game has some cool novel feature the tools for that should probably be found in an early map at low mastery levels. My main issue with unlocking everything from scratch is really only the old maps. If you abandon "import old maps into new game" that's not an issue because I can launch H2 and play everything with all the tools and costumes. But I don't want to replay the old maps to exhaustion just to unlock all the same suits and tools and costumes and entrances *again* and if a hypothetical Hitman 3 included the previous games (what will that take eventually? 500 GB disk space?) I probably wouldn't bother with the old stuff at all. Not again.
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May 16, 2020 12:28
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It depends what new features they add. If there's some cool new mechanics to play with then I absolutely want to be able to gently caress around with them on all the existing maps 
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May 16, 2020 13:29
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Here's my wishlist: 1.) Granular difficulty settings so you can play on hard without losing your loving saves, and bring back some oldschool victory conditions like suit/weapon recovery 2.) Make it so that if they find the general's naked body his uniform becomes a non-viable disguise, like in previous games 3.) The mechanic where a guard picks up a gun and carries it to the box needs work, because finding 5 unique guns on the map to drop them all in a hallway to peel off 5 guards is possibly the worst mechanic in any hitman game so far, at least since the snow mission in silent assassin where you can't run 4.) I like the idea of ETs but in practice they suck and need work and are just a barrier to accessing content you've paid for, and if it's so important that I can't retry them a year later when they repop it's really dumb to give everyone who waited 2 years to attempt them a shock phone that makes SASO super easy without any setup. NOT bitter about the loving appraiser or anything. e: also it's time for guards to have some limited capacity to peek into chests and wardrobes in certain conditions poverty goat fucked around with this message at 13:49 on May 16, 2020 |
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May 16, 2020 13:45
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ET's in general are just a bizarrely bad concept to me. Why make so much of the new content by definition have no replay value? Maybe they're fun and you want to repeat them? Or maybe it's just dumb that you never get to experience it if you do something dumb and mess up in the first two minutes. If you want to build the tension or have a high difficulty curve why not just go with some sort of ironman model instead?
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May 16, 2020 17:32
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I wonder if the current ET had more to it. When he moves up to the hyperborean showroom area he might wander into a side-room. He apologizes to the people in it for disturbing them and then goes back to the main room. In the regular version of Sgail, there is no one in that side-room. I’ve used it a couple times to lure away Sophia’s bodyguard with a radio. I wanted to check it out but I messed up the timing pacifying those NPCs, restarted and just phoned it in 
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May 16, 2020 17:50
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Speaking on my own account, the FOMO of the ETs was what caused me to eventually get hitman 2. They get people to buy the game sooner (at a higher price), and increase the long tail of play. BTW, for the completionists among you, word is now that the rank/experience system goes up to level 5000. The highest anyone's gotten so far is about 3000. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 18:53 on May 16, 2020 |
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May 16, 2020 18:13
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I think for the episodic format of Hitman 2016 the ETs almost made sense (they made you keep coming back and potentially buy the other places) but for Hitman 2 they didn't because it took forever for the season pass (story) episodes to come out and there wasn't really any way to spend more money on the game outside of that season pass in the first place. Also now that there's no longer any other post-release support planned they could just put them back on in an unlimited format because who cares. But no, they're not even doing the legacy ETs anymore (which outnumber the ones on H2 maps like 2 to 1) because reasons.
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May 16, 2020 19:00
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It's amazing to me that they paid for sean bean and have only let people see the content for a week or two since the game came out
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May 17, 2020 00:15
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Fuzzy McDoom posted:ET's in general are just a bizarrely bad concept to me. Why make so much of the new content by definition have no replay value? What I think I like about ETs is that it's very immersive having to sneak in, find the target and formulate a plan without blowing your cover, just like 47 would do, and having one shot at it in all of space and time adds a unique kind of pressure. But then you just end up gaming the hell out of it, restarting the moment anything goes wrong and wasting time on gratuitously safe strats because you only get one shot at the unlocks gated behind it  and that's bad gameplay that falls well short of the platonic ideal of the elusive target
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May 17, 2020 00:40
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I still think the most straightforward solution (needless qualifier, I am NOT a programmer and maybe what I'm saying is impossibly stupidly difficult to implement) would be that your first kill of the ET is your final result/score but after that you're free to replay it as much as you want and try out different strategies, actually listen in on all the new conversations etc.
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May 17, 2020 00:51
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poverty goat posted:It's amazing to me that they paid for sean bean and have only let people see the content for a week or two since the game came out Also it seems weird that it felt like he was set up as a recurring ET who would appear on all of the maps eventually - he was the undying for chrrissakes. I guess that initial sales weren't good enough to justify the effort or something.
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May 17, 2020 01:14
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poverty goat posted:What I think I like about ETs is that it's very immersive having to sneak in, find the target and formulate a plan without blowing your cover, just like 47 would do, and having one shot at it in all of space and time adds a unique kind of pressure. But then you just end up gaming the hell out of it, restarting the moment anything goes wrong and wasting time on gratuitously safe strats because you only get one shot at the unlocks gated behind it agreed entirely. imo here is a reasonable model for ET's: 1) new security layouts, locked doors, npc paths etc to discover 2) no saves - fail and start over 3) bigass score bonus and/or bragging rights token for nailing it on your first try - no restart cheesing allowed
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May 17, 2020 01:35
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Jerusalem posted:I still think the most straightforward solution (needless qualifier, I am NOT a programmer and maybe what I'm saying is impossibly stupidly difficult to implement) would be that your first kill of the ET is your final result/score but after that you're free to replay it as much as you want and try out different strategies, actually listen in on all the new conversations etc. Fuzzy McDoom posted:3) bigass score bonus and/or bragging rights token for nailing it on your first try - no restart cheesing allowed
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May 17, 2020 03:28
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Pilchenstein posted:They can't really ever enforce no restarts without causing a shitstorm because I doubt there's a single player who would be even slightly understanding if they lost their one shot because the incredibly unpopular "always online" component poo poo the bed, as it is wont to do. yeah i know. of course the devs would have perfectly understood that this means they are baking cheesing into the design, which gets back to the point that the whole idea is fundamentally dumb e: no i am not at all mad that I failed my first ever ET because a bathroom door bounced off a target's shoelaces and the guards outside killed me two seconds after i completed the objective Fuzzy McDoom fucked around with this message at 04:07 on May 17, 2020 |
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May 17, 2020 04:05
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"I'm glad you are still here Mr. Sager, you deliver the cleanest shaves." - Mumbai NPC who had an enormous beard and clearly did not get a shave in the past decade Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 11:06 on May 17, 2020 |
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May 17, 2020 10:26
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seen bawn
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May 17, 2020 10:34
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Setting aside the game for a bit and coming back, I feel a bit better. Up to 35/40 SA'd featured contracts, four in one session! But then I remember I still need Arthrin Occultation and Eccleston Illumination, and my heart plummets. And then I remember sniper mode Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 11:01 on May 17, 2020 |
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May 17, 2020 10:59
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Discendo Vox posted:Setting aside the game for a bit and coming back, I feel a bit better. Up to 35/40 SA'd featured contracts, four in one session! But then I remember I still need Arthrin Occultation and Eccleston Illumination, and my heart plummets. Fortunately I still have like 673489578349678 challenges to do for every map, and I still have mission stories undone in sapienza. I have time before I have to confront those titans. Today I'm thinking of SASOing master Bank. Any tips on how to do that cleanly?
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May 17, 2020 11:36
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The_Doctor posted:Why’s that? It heads off the furore from creating another No Russian’ situation. Fuzzy McDoom posted:imo add the following: As for the dynamic light/darkness concealment, that seems like an obvious evolution on how detection works in Hitman, with darker locations adding a multiplier to detection times. It also has some potential interactions with guard behavior and the "turn generator back on" trickery you can do, which could allow experienced players to have the lights turned off for longer than usual and thus achieve difficult infiltrations. What would be really interesting would be if turning on the lights would be something you'd want to do sometimes too, since Hitman isn't your usual stealth game. In any case, I definitely feel like something that could add to the longevity of the games would be a female character as an alternative to 47. Insofar as you'd need to "justify" adding a female playable character, the Hitman games are definitely ones that have a clear gameplay justification: The disguises available to either character would have near to no overlap, and the types of roles you could inhabit could be quite different depending on the location/target. It's a lot of potential new gameplay within the same map. Combining that with an actual co-op mode as others have suggested would be real neat.
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May 17, 2020 11:55
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StrixNebulosa posted:Fortunately I still have like 673489578349678 challenges to do for every map, and I still have mission stories undone in sapienza. I have time before I have to confront those titans. Last time i did the bank on master I found the crash the stock option was the best method for getting to Athena, allows you to pretty much ignore the top floors entirely. still a lot of work to do downstairs first.
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May 17, 2020 12:09
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StrixNebulosa posted:Fortunately I still have like 673489578349678 challenges to do for every map, and I still have mission stories undone in sapienza. I have time before I have to confront those titans. I think I went beyond just giving tips typing this out, but either way... Loadout: Any silenced pistol Lockpick Disposable Scrambler/Electronic Key Hacker Pickup in Loading Bay: Whatever item you need for your accident kill. You also want to bring the briefcase along to keep the datacore out of sight. Order: Heist to grab the datacore > grab the Cronkite files from the Deposit Boxes area (one of the guards in the Vault Security Room even drops a key) > give Cronkite files to the reporter in the main hall > make your way to the Waiting Room (distract the guard who wants to frisk you or use the door via Lost & Found) > go upstairs and enter the sideroom just before the Stock Market > target will eventually make a phone call here after the market crash > [insert method of accident kill here] > leave through the front door with your briefcase Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 12:20 on May 17, 2020 |
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May 17, 2020 12:10
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A Buttery Pastry posted:In any case, I definitely feel like something that could add to the longevity of the games would be a female character as an alternative to 47. Insofar as you'd need to "justify" adding a female playable character, the Hitman games are definitely ones that have a clear gameplay justification: The disguises available to either character would have near to no overlap, and the types of roles you could inhabit could be quite different depending on the location/target. It's a lot of potential new gameplay within the same map. Combining that with an actual co-op mode as others have suggested would be real neat. I’d love a level where the targets “Elite Guard” is all female - you’d be completely incapable of getting a disguise and infiltrating as one.
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May 17, 2020 12:19
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Alright, sweet. Gonna go wreck this bank now. 
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May 17, 2020 12:20
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On a more general note I would play on master difficulty more often if the saves weren't limited, damnit. These levels are HUGE and often have 3+ targets and I want to learn that kind of challenge but I also want the flexibility of saving and reloading when I try something risky. I am terrified of doing mumbai on master SASO because I'll have to figure out when to spend my precious save. ...And I'm not meaning to use the save to try to get lucky or something, it's literally to save me from having to redo busywork like KOing and hiding guards or whatever.
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May 17, 2020 12:22
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Red Oktober posted:I’d love a level where the targets “Elite Guard” is all female - you’d be completely incapable of getting a disguise and infiltrating as one. StrixNebulosa posted:On a more general note I would play on master difficulty more often if the saves weren't limited, damnit. These levels are HUGE and often have 3+ targets and I want to learn that kind of challenge but I also want the flexibility of saving and reloading when I try something risky. I am terrified of doing mumbai on master SASO because I'll have to figure out when to spend my precious save. Alternatively, make difficulty more of a mix and match kind of thing, allowing you to play on something akin to master difficulty without the save limit. This would have the added benefit of allowing them to add even more complications to gameplay, which people could just not turn on if they didn't feel like it.
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May 17, 2020 13:08
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StrixNebulosa posted:On a more general note I would play on master difficulty more often if the saves weren't limited, damnit. These levels are HUGE and often have 3+ targets and I want to learn that kind of challenge but I also want the flexibility of saving and reloading when I try something risky. I am terrified of doing mumbai on master SASO because I'll have to figure out when to spend my precious save. If you really, really want Master SASO Mumbai to be over with, it can be done in 05 minutes with something I think that is an oversight by the developer: ANY brick seems to produce purple smoke when thrown into a furnace. Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 14:21 on May 17, 2020 |
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May 17, 2020 14:06
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Limited saves on master are really dumb and honestly if I had my way they'd let you save on contracts and escalations too. The game is relatively stable but that's not much comfort when you can't save and then it crashes or a coin bounces out of the map or the AI decides to wig out and gently caress up your plan in some new and elaborate way
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May 17, 2020 14:09
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The worst thing is when loading the save on Master will suddenly cause something that was fine before. "That guard won't see that dude I knocked out". Well, guess what? You loaded your save and suddenly he did look in that direction and now your work up to that point is useless. On Whittleton Creek I had a SA route that went Wilson's garden > Janus' garden > inside Janus' house and I couldn't save until I was inside. Otherwise it would ruin the "routine" of the guards in a way that I suddenly needed a distraction to get inside unnoticed, where otherwise I had to wait less than 5 seconds after hopping the fence. On Miami I had the exact opposite. I assume people know the skybridge > Kronstadt building > window route to get to that patio where Robert Knox has a laptop hooked up to a transmitter dish. It seemed like I had a 3/4 chance to get noticed by a Kronstadt employee when climbing out of the window. If I used my save on Master just before that window I guess it somehow "reset" his animations so he wasn't looking in my direction. Hitman has basically learned me that speedrunning games is a miserable experience. Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 14:49 on May 17, 2020 |
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May 17, 2020 14:41
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Mierenneuker posted:Hitman has basically learned me that speedrunning games is a miserable experience.  ) would cause hitching that seriously hosed up any strategy that involved doing something precise immediately. So now instead of saves I just use the Jackie Chan Rule: what I do looks impressive, but only because you didn't see the 400 previous attempts that ended in failure
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May 17, 2020 16:45
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Mierenneuker posted:
I use a version of this route a lot (garage - elevator shaft - window - roof ) and the window part isn't that tricky. As long as you wait for the patrol to pass by, the window is close enough to the utility room that none of the stationary guards will actually spot you.
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May 17, 2020 18:24
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God drat it Arthrin Occultation I finalize stable ways to address the other two targets, I lock down the entire escape route knocking out 20 people one at a time, I lure the hatchet target (whose body I cannot move, who I cannot knock out into the back hall behind the kitchen where two hotel staff were, I kill him, clean, silent, melee, from behind, alone, in this empty room, doors closed, all nearby NPCs unconscious and boxed, I beeline for the exit- and somehow, some-loving-how, someone goes into the room and alerts off his body while I am one room away from the escape. I swear to god that hotel is haunted.
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May 18, 2020 07:19
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Discendo Vox posted:God drat it Arthrin Occultation a) That sucks! b) I cannot imagine the frustration that would go into doing those levels silently. What a huge challenge!
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May 18, 2020 14:41
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The only thing I can think of is there's a chef who goes out of the kitchen to, iirc, Jordan's party area at one point. I guess he came back? I don't know. On my low end machine, with my limited reflexes, I wind up taking the "slowly knock everyone out" route way more often. tbh I think these escalations are way worse than any of the ones from Paris that haven't returned.
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May 18, 2020 16:05
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Discendo Vox posted:The only thing I can think of is there's a chef who goes out of the kitchen to, iirc, Jordan's party area at one point. I guess he came back? I don't know. The easiest place to lure people from the kitchen is into the pantry. There are two chefs there but no one otherwise enters or leaves.
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May 18, 2020 17:40
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Nakar posted:That's roughly correct; a chef starts on the Jordan Cross floor at the beginning of the map and leaves, walking downstairs, across the top part of the lobby, in through the door into the staff area, and into the kitchen through the little office (not the pantry near the freezer). I forget if he stays there or goes back, but that office is not safe unless you finish quickly or deal with him before he gets down there (or drag bodies behind the desk just so, but that's risky). I'm using the hall behind the kitchen office, as I have to dance around the guard target after luring them in with a coin and gun (they are enforcer on the groundskeeper outfit), and that's limited space to work with. I must be stupendously unlucky. Once I get this done, it's on to Eccleston Illumination, which will probably involve knocking out the entire loving cave area! Joy! Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 17:53 on May 18, 2020 |
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May 18, 2020 17:50
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Discendo Vox posted:Once I get this done, it's on to Eccleston Illumination, which will probably involve knocking out the entire loving cave area! Joy! If I remember correctly you are definitely choking out a one female scientist, three lab guards and two mansion guards. Don't rely on the generator by itself to lure your targets. Turn it off/on and place a weapon to lure them in a direction that has less eyeballs watching it. Edit: Oh, and you are going to hate the scientist inside the lab that has his back to you but randomly has an animation where he looks to the right and will see you hacking the laptop. Start in the lab and be prepared to throw out 1 of every 5 attempts because of that rear end in a top hat.
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May 18, 2020 18:52
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Eccleston is idiotically easy now that there's a dart gun that makes people sick. You can pop two people and be hacking the laptop within five seconds of starting. The rest is a bit tedious and tricky but is mostly just investing time.
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May 18, 2020 19:23
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The crucial issue is my crummy system seems to exacerbate weird detection and pathing jank. This plus the explosive golf ball requirement eats up a lot of time on repeat runs.
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May 18, 2020 19:55
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That escalation is the most perfect example of why 5 level escalations were poo poo. Hopefully they cut them down to zero levels for Hitman 3 because I don't care how little dev time they take to implement, it'd be much better spent on literally anything else
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May 18, 2020 23:14
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