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i believe the disagreement on the shadiness of curt hennig's hiatus from wrestling is purely down to how he 100% would not have stopped wrestling or even slowed down that much without receiving the payout. However, I took my medicine on time this evening.
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May 17, 2020 05:03
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Red posted:Oh, I thought Hennig was legit hurt the whole time. He was hurt, but he wasn't permanently disabled and unable to wrestle. Hence why he would tease comebacks and eventually did come back.
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May 17, 2020 05:15
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I still find it super funny that Loyd's of London actually insured wrestlers up until Hennig
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May 17, 2020 05:27
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SatoshiMiwa posted:I still find it super funny that Loyd's of London actually insured wrestlers up until Hennig I think Shawn's 98-02 hiatus was on Lloyd's dime
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May 17, 2020 05:38
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Bret Hart got sued by Lloyd's of London because of the matches he did in WWE being seen as proof he wasn't actually disabled.
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May 17, 2020 05:41
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MassRafTer posted:Bret Hart got sued by Lloyd's of London because of the matches he did in WWE being seen as proof he wasn't actually disabled. IIRC, they negotiated a special deal (which was why he took no offense of any kind short of eye rakes on house shows) where nobody could do anything to him and he was in control of everything....but I can't remember if that was before the lawsuit or after. Lloyd's had long put Bret through the ringer even though he had a pretty clear case and was making a lot more than the policy would have paid, going back to when he first retired.
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May 17, 2020 06:00
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What is Kurt Angle's best match, in your opinions?
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May 17, 2020 07:18
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Admiral Joeslop posted:What is Kurt Angle's best match, in your opinions? Iron Man with Brock probably holds up better than anything else, but I haven't watched it in a while
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May 17, 2020 07:35
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Admiral Joeslop posted:What is Kurt Angle's best match, in your opinions? Benoit, Rumble 03.
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May 17, 2020 07:46
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Admiral Joeslop posted:What is Kurt Angle's best match, in your opinions? Shawn Michaels, Wrestlemania 21 Benoit RR 2003 also very very good. Austin at Summerslam 2001 (apart from the gently caress finish.) Dell_Zincht fucked around with this message at 08:02 on May 17, 2020 |
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May 17, 2020 08:00
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Admiral Joeslop posted:What is Kurt Angle's best match, in your opinions? I liked the matches he had with samoa joe the best watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xccBlxbgvPQ Duke Pukem fucked around with this message at 08:23 on May 17, 2020 |
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May 17, 2020 08:20
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Austin at Summerslam 01 Benoit at Rumble 03 Brock Iron Man match is just masterful. Undertaker at both Fully Loaded 00 and No Way Out 06 tell fantastic stories both different from eachother. The Invasion ten man tag team match is decent and Angle looks like a murder machine towards the end. And from TNA, his matches against Desmond Wolfe (Nigel McGuiness) are amazing. I think there's three in total and the first might be my favourite. I miss Nigel 
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May 17, 2020 09:07
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Nigel probably misses Nigel too, in a sense. His matches with Benoit were probably the high spot of his career but it's been too long and I don't remember. I just remember Angle had serious GOAT chops but he never filled the resume because he spent too much of his career in a lovely, worthless promotion (even if we did get some AJ Styles/Samoa Joe/Nigel matches out of it. If TNA wasn't so bad it would have actually been a good thing because who was Angle going to wrestle if he stayed in WWE? Orton? Batista? Miz? Pickings for great matches in WWE from 2006-2011 were dire and would have crippled his GOAT resume anyway). I miss that thread.
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May 17, 2020 09:55
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Him and Orton would have probably been pretty good, and him flinging around Miz probably would have been entertaining, at least.
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May 17, 2020 10:00
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Angle wrestled Orton at a SD, One Night Stand, and Vengeance in 2006. imo his best match is Benoit at RR 03. The Joe match at Lockdown and the SD tag title finals matches are up there too.
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May 17, 2020 12:04
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There's also the Benoit/Angle vs Rey/Eddie match from No Mercy. And a triple threat rematch later in 2002 with either Team Angle or The Guerreros. A triple threat match between Angle/Rock/Undertaker from Vengeance 02 is always thrown out as being great but I haven't seen it since it first aired. Also Rey Mysterio from Summerslam that same year and Benoit from Wrestlemania 17. Angle matches rule.
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May 17, 2020 12:49
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As mentioned, Angle/Benoit at Royal Rumble 2003 is an incredible match. It's just not one I really want to watch again, unfortunately.
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May 17, 2020 13:03
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I enjoyed the triple threat match he had with Jericho and Benoit at a Wrestlemania where he lost both of his titles without being pinned.
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May 17, 2020 13:12
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Pushing Cena to the detriment of absolutely anything else for a decade worked out well, didn't it? All those kids kept watching!
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May 17, 2020 13:17
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And now Cena seemingly wants as little contact as possible with WWE. He's never gone to any of the Saudi shows, right?
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May 17, 2020 13:20
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He did the first one, wrestling HHH
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May 17, 2020 13:49
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Well, at least it seems he's decided "gently caress blood money shows" since then.
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May 17, 2020 13:51
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Randaconda posted:Pushing Cena to the detriment of absolutely anything else for a decade worked out well, didn't it? All those kids kept watching! I'd be more upset about it if I felt like anybody in the mid-late 2000's was really worth pushing. Watching him beat up everybody while never changing or becoming interesting was annoying but it wasn't until Punk's run got completely overshadowed by him that I cared about who was getting done dirty by SuperCena.
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May 17, 2020 13:52
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ChrisBTY posted:I'd be more upset about it if I felt like anybody in the mid-late 2000's was really worth pushing. Watching him beat up everybody while never changing or becoming interesting was annoying but it wasn't until Punk's run got completely overshadowed by him that I cared about who was getting done dirty by SuperCena. And then he took clean losses to Bryan, Styles, and Steen
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May 17, 2020 14:10
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Too bad his Hogan reflex kicked in with Owens and he made up for that loss by beating him a half dozen times.
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May 17, 2020 14:29
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ChrisBTY posted:I'd be more upset about it if I felt like anybody in the mid-late 2000's was really worth pushing. Watching him beat up everybody while never changing or becoming interesting was annoying but it wasn't until Punk's run got completely overshadowed by him that I cared about who was getting done dirty by SuperCena. What if he’d put Barrett over at SummerSlam?
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May 17, 2020 14:30
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ChrisBTY posted:His matches with Benoit were probably the high spot of his career but it's been too long and I don't remember. I just remember Angle had serious GOAT chops but he never filled the resume because he spent too much of his career in a lovely, worthless promotion (even if we did get some AJ Styles/Samoa Joe/Nigel matches out of it. If TNA wasn't so bad it would have actually been a good thing because who was Angle going to wrestle if he stayed in WWE? Orton? Batista? Miz? Pickings for great matches in WWE from 2006-2011 were dire and would have crippled his GOAT resume anyway). 2000: Two ****+ matches 2001: Ten ****+ matches, won Most Outstanding Wrestler, 3rd in Wrestler of the Year 2002: Twelve ****+ matches, won Wrestler of the Year, Most Outstanding Wrestler, Best on Interviews, Best Technical Wrestler 2003: Nine ****+ matches, won Most Outstanding Wrestler, second in Wrestler of the Year and Best Technical Wrestlers (this is also the year where he took off after WM to get fusion surgery on his neck and got a weird experimental one that meant he was out for three months instead of a year) 2004: One ****+ match (Angle again took time off for neck surgery after WM, again got experimental surgery and was out for three months instead of a year) 2005: Four ****+ matches 2006: Three ****+ matches (This was the year where Angle joined the new WWECW brand, started appearing sporadically, was released from his WWE contract and jumped ship to TNA, two of those three matches were in the Samoa Joe series) 2007: No ****+ matches The rest of these are in TNA so it's a little bit of a "Tree Falls In the Woods" for many of them past the initial Angle/Joe feud 2008: Three ****+ matches 2009: Five ****+ matches 2010: Six ****+ matches 2011: Two ****+ matches 2012: Three ****+ matches 2013: Two ****+ matches 2015: Three ****+ matches On one hand it's kind of more impressive to be pulling **** matches out of Mr. Anderson and Jeff Jarrett and EC3 on a show no one watches than it is to have a string of barnburners against the Rock, Austin, Benoit, Edge, and Mysterio. But it's also a situation where maybe being driven to have the kind of run he had from his debut up to WM 19 directly contributed to every problem he's had since.
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May 17, 2020 14:33
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Red posted:What if he’d put Barrett over at SummerSlam? Honestly I never saw Barrett as world championship material. Not even during the feud with Cena. Barrett winning the title there wouldn't have changed much.
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May 17, 2020 14:39
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DeathChicken posted:Too bad his Hogan reflex kicked in with Owens and he made up for that loss by beating him a half dozen times. From everything I've ever heard, Cena himself doesn't really have a Hogan complex but is (or was) a company man through and through, completely willing to do whatever they wanted regardless of the outcome.
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May 17, 2020 14:41
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And if anything one of the issues WWE has right now is everything is so 50/50 so they probably should push a guy like Cena
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May 17, 2020 16:39
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Admiral Joeslop posted:What is Kurt Angle's best match, in your opinions? He has tons - it's hard to pick one. His series with Edge was really good (though he lost his hair, he wore a hairpiece in a collegiate head protector). He also had really good matches with Rey Mysterio, though I never understood the way it was booked. Everything against Benoit is gold, as is the triple threat with Jericho and Benoit. His stuff with Brock was excellent as well, and I liked the turn it took, with an Angle/Brock mutual appreciation thing. I didn't see much of his TNA stuff, but everything with Samoa Joe is amazing, especially his first match. I'm pretty sure he gave Kane his best match, too - November 1, 2001, on YouTube for free. Here are some of my favorites: WrestleMania XX, vs. Eddie Guerrero Great match with an amazing Eddie-style finish, where he unties his boot. When Angle goes for the Ankle Lock, he pulls off Eddie's boot, and Eddie surprises him with a small package to win. Raw/SmackDown! series of matches with Booker T for WCW title, summer 2001 Pretty much everything about the InVasion was a failure, except for Rob Van Dam, and the rise of Angle. The WCW/ECW guys were treated as lower-tier for most of the time, but Angle did his best to sell for the guys, and make them look good. Booker and Angle had really good chemistry, and had great free TV matches - the feud didn't do much outside of set up Booker for a SummerSlam match with The Rock, but all the matches were solid. WrestleMania XXI, vs. Shawn Michaels (win) Amazing match full of near-falls where Shawn spends the latter half of the match clinging to life, and Angle throws everything at him to just end it. The drama was the chance that Shawn could pull it out at any time, and nearly did with a Superkick out of nowhere. King of the Ring 2001, vs. Shane McMahon in a Street Fight I covered this earlier in the thread, but it's just a glorious trainwreck that, thankfully, both survived with careers intact. SummerSlam 2001, vs. Steve Austin These two had a super series of matches to follow some really silly but great promos - you remember, where Austin sang with a guitar and cowboy hat, and Kurt had a monkey cowboy hat and ukulele. Out of their series, this was the most brutal, and while some hate the finish, I liked the idea of Austin having a safety net built in, because he was afraid of Angle. SmackDown! Royal Rumble, January 29, 2004 Since the real Rumble winner, Chris Benoit, targeted the Raw champion, SD! needed to have a challenger, so they held another half-Rumble on TV. Angle is first in, and lasts until the end, eliminated by Eddie (him again!). Angle carries the whole thing, with a great finish. (Edit2: Just to be clear, Eddie ended up facing Brock at No Way Out, and then faced Angle at WMXX to circle back to this issue.) Edit: gently caress it, I'm picking the Booker series as my favorite, because Angle wasn't forced to treat him well when nobody else was, and he was a professional. Compared to Booker jobbing in a grocery store to Austin, and the disaster feud with Triple H, Angle comes off looking like a really good person. Red fucked around with this message at 17:37 on May 17, 2020 |
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May 17, 2020 17:27
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I'm sure this has come up at some point but are there any recommended books about Japanese wrestling history? Articles, docs, podcasts, whatever are good too. No specific eras/promotions/people, pretty much anything before Okada broke out will do
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May 17, 2020 17:58
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Dutchy posted:I'm sure this has come up at some point but are there any recommended books about Japanese wrestling history? Articles, docs, podcasts, whatever are good too. No specific eras/promotions/people, pretty much anything before Okada broke out will do Yeah I want to know more about renzokan(??) and Baba where do I look?
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May 17, 2020 18:06
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Nystral posted:Yeah I want to know more about renzokan(??) and Baba where do I look? Rikidozan is probably at the closest bar
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May 17, 2020 18:46
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Dutchy posted:I'm sure this has come up at some point but are there any recommended books about Japanese wrestling history? Articles, docs, podcasts, whatever are good too. No specific eras/promotions/people, pretty much anything before Okada broke out will do Lion's Pride is supposedly very good. Pride: Before a Fall is also pretty good though not as detailed as it could be. If you have an Observer subscription the NJPW history that Dave includes in the 1996(?) G-1 article is very good. Shouldn't be hard to find in the July or August 96 Observers.
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May 17, 2020 18:50
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MassRafTer posted:Lion's Pride is supposedly very good. Pride: Before a Fall is also pretty good though not as detailed as it could be. If you have an Observer subscription the NJPW history that Dave includes in the 1996(?) G-1 article is very good. Shouldn't be hard to find in the July or August 96 Observers. Eggshells by Chris Charlton (same author as Lion's Pride) is specifically a history of wrestling at the Tokyo Dome, and is exceptionally well researched.
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May 17, 2020 18:57
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MassRafTer posted:Lion's Pride is supposedly very good. Pride: Before a Fall is also pretty good though not as detailed as it could be. If you have an Observer subscription the NJPW history that Dave includes in the 1996(?) G-1 article is very good. Shouldn't be hard to find in the July or August 96 Observers. Lamuella posted:Eggshells by Chris Charlton (same author as Lion's Pride) is specifically a history of wrestling at the Tokyo Dome, and is exceptionally well researched. thx, I'll check these out
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May 18, 2020 14:03
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Did Vince McMahon always micromanage commentary to the extent he does now, or is more of an emergent phenomenon? Like obviously when he WAS a commentator he had to try and control the conversation in a different way, but I'm thinking of teams like Heenan and Monsoon or King and JR.
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May 18, 2020 21:36
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Well during the King and JR days he was one of the featured characters on the show so I imagine he was rarely in gorilla
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May 18, 2020 21:45
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I'm slowly making my way through the Dark Side of the Ring series, and my initial thoughts are: - Each episode really paints the subject as being the top star of their era, which, I get, but everybody can't be Babe Ruth. - How are they getting away with showing WWE footage? - I love that they went to the effort to find actors with similar builds to play the shape of the wrestler(s) being discussed. - This show definitely glosses over and/or simplifies a lot of things, but considering the runtime, this is acceptable, I suppose. - I didn't think there was anything more to discuss about Montreal, but Cornette and Russo proved me wrong. I'm certainly siding with Cornette there, though I'm sure if you asked McMahon, the idea was all his, and no one else's. Still, I don't think you can do this thing justice without having Shawn, Vince, and some of the other players (Taker, Brisco, Sarge, Hunter, etc.) involved. - Is there a subforum/thread to discuss the show? I didn't see one. - Bart Gunn made out relatively well, all things considered; good health, seems like a regular guy, has a 9 to 5 job, and doesn't seem bitter or angry. - The Benoit thing in general was unpleasant to watch, and reminded me why I have not watched anything with Benoit since he died, nor will I ever. Now, all that said, at the end of the Benoit episode (p2), Jericho said the incident almost destroyed the industry. I don't agree with that at all, but it certainly changed a lot. How would people respond to that statement by Jericho?
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May 18, 2020 22:08
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