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I'm kinda excited for the 2021 Tiquan R. The hard R. Not the R Line bullshit.
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May 16, 2020 05:06
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Charles posted:Volvo already was a luxury brand? kinda but not really? compare the msrp of an 87 bmw 325i to an 87 240. the volvo was almost half of the bmw.
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May 16, 2020 05:14
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:the move upmarket is going to be absolutely disastrous. there's a reason that nobody has survived in that segment, and it's even worse since the Germans are pushing downmarket. A $25,000 Mazda 3 has an interior that’s almost as good as a $40,000 Audi A4. I’d say it’s not a disaster at all. You’d be mad to buy a Q3 over a CX-30 if you care even the slightest bit about a good-handling car. And again, the Mazda’s $10-15k cheaper once you’ve specced them.
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May 16, 2020 06:18
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YOLOsubmarine posted:The “not luxury but slightly more upscale than a Toyota” segment is where Volkswagen plays and they’ve survived. And I don’t think anyone else has really tried. Mazda isn’t trying to compete with BMW or Mercedes. Their pricing is still in line with their competitors. They’re just differentiating by offering nicer interiors and better driving dynamics than most in the segment. They’ve got to do something to stand out and I don’t think going downmarket is the answer. It's where Volkswagen used to survive and the continuous cheapening of its products (like shunting the U.S. Passat onto its own, cheaper platform rather than market the Euro variant here) is a tacit acknowledgement of that. Volvo used to play in that same field until other, cheaper vehicles matched its most marketable qualities and Subaru stole most of the clientele it marketed to. Little wonder why the current owners took Volvo further upmarket than its ever been. Mazda's trying its best to play that game while throwing plenty of bones to the enthusiasts out there. But it's all for naught as long as people would rather slide their asses in cheap SUVs that don't handle but look vaguely good (Rogue), angle for the vehicle with the lowest monthly payment and/or the biggest incentives (Equinox) or go all-in on the Pacific Northwest/New Englander Lifestyle Machine (Outback/Forester/Ascent). The Oldest Man posted:It's pretty interesting that Volvo was able to pivot upmarket and Mazda fell on their faces. Possibly because a large crossover with massaging seats is a better flagship for that type of pivot than a small hatchback with zero rear vis. Gotta wonder if the failure of Amati left Mazda a bit gunshy on creating and marketing flagship luxury vehicles.
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May 16, 2020 07:03
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BraveUlysses posted:kinda but not really? compare the msrp of an 87 bmw 325i to an 87 240. the volvo was almost half of the bmw. Oh, I figured it was meant to be a more contemporary comparison.
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May 16, 2020 08:48
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Charles posted:Oh, I figured it was meant to be a more contemporary comparison. Volvo moved upmarket on the positive reputation they earned in the 70s and 80s. The XC90 was a timely product for them.
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May 16, 2020 15:06
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:
62% of VW sales are Atlas and Tiguan. Nissan sold 142,000 more Rogues last year than its best-selling passenger car, the Altima. Everyone is selling more SUVs than passenger cars, because that’s what Americans want. drgitlin fucked around with this message at 21:17 on May 16, 2020 |
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May 16, 2020 17:56
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Most Americans want cheap wagons. Except the boomers who want a luxo wagon but for goodness sake not an actual station wagon like their parents drove! And anyone with money in other generations just wants the cache of a BMW or something because they don't care about cars as such but just want a fashion accessory. But I'm preaching to the choir.
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May 16, 2020 19:37
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The problem with the CX-5 is that it's better than its peers at everything enthusiasts car about and not at anything that the CUV buying public cares about.
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May 16, 2020 21:57
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Apparently you don't even need to lift it:
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May 16, 2020 21:58
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The Mazda diesels are garbage though, no reason to buy one in a country with cheap petrol.
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May 16, 2020 22:08
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dissss posted:The Mazda diesels are garbage though, no reason to buy one in a country with cheap petrol. I think I mostly just liked the idea of having a very loud diesel small SUV, so not exactly an important criteria.
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May 16, 2020 22:20
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Diesel is dead in those sort of vehicles now - it can still make sense in larger, heavier vehicles but not little CUVs and cars.
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May 16, 2020 22:55
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Krakkles posted:Apparently you don't even need to lift it: You really don't, the wheel gap on mine is silly.
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May 16, 2020 23:19
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There's a lot of good that comes out of Mazda seemingly trying to be the Japanese Volkswagen (nice premium-but-not-lux cars that drive well, but reliable), but chasing small vehicle diesels is not one of them.
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May 16, 2020 23:19
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gah reply is not edit
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May 16, 2020 23:20
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Krakkles posted:Apparently you don't even need to lift it: I love this, and maintain that CUVs are only lame because people don't realize they're basically slow rally cars
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May 17, 2020 01:29
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Olympic Mathlete posted:
AMC should have lived and Chrysler should have died.
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May 17, 2020 02:29
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It's kinda weird an American car company sold a 3 door V8 RWD compact hatchback with a manual and people thought it was uncool
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May 17, 2020 02:40
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redgubbinz posted:It's kinda weird an American car company sold a 3 door V8 RWD compact hatchback with a manual They were pretty crappy cars, overall. They were theoretically cool, but no one actually wanted to own one. That was AMC's problem generally. Great ideas without the R&D budget to make it happen without cutting lots of corners. They couldn't sell enough cars to amortize their costs to make them competitive.
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May 17, 2020 02:45
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Krakkles posted:Apparently you don't even need to lift it: What the gently caress? My pants are suddenly tight. Deteriorata posted:They were pretty crappy cars, overall. They were theoretically cool, but no one actually wanted to own one. I saw a mint Pacer in a nursing home staff parking lot the other day and couldn't believe my eyes. Looked like it just rolled off the showroom floor. I was stunned. Like....how, or why? How did you preserve it? Oh you restored it? But, why?
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May 17, 2020 03:36
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LeeMajors posted:What the gently caress? AMC cars always felt kind of clunky and dated, even when new. That's probably because they were. AMC was raiding the parts bin from cars of 10 or 20 years earlier and putting interesting skins on them. Sort of a reverse restomod - like putting a DeLorean body on a '63 Fairlane chassis. All the cars in the 70s were pretty bland and crappy, but for a subcompact I'd take a Pinto over a Gremlin any day.
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May 17, 2020 03:56
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Deteriorata posted:AMC cars always felt kind of clunky and dated, even when new. That's probably because they were. AMC was raiding the parts bin from cars of 10 or 20 years earlier and putting interesting skins on them. Sort of a reverse restomod - like putting a DeLorean body on a '63 Fairlane chassis. I was born in 83 so they were definitely around but I don't think I've ever been in one. Everything you said is my general impression of AMC. I just couldn't believe I saw such a loving cherry example in the wild in 2020. It was spotless.
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May 17, 2020 04:03
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redgubbinz posted:It's kinda weird an American car company sold a 3 door V8 RWD compact hatchback with a manual The first generation of FWD Corolla/Celica/323/626 etc were considered absolutely massive improvements over the old RWD models.
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May 17, 2020 05:08
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Deteriorata posted:AMC cars always felt kind of clunky and dated, even when new. That's probably because they were. AMC was raiding the parts bin from cars of 10 or 20 years earlier and putting interesting skins on them. Sort of a reverse restomod - like putting a DeLorean body on a '63 Fairlane chassis. I'm an AMC apologist since my first car was a 74 Hornet (aka a Gremlin without the cut-off rear end) and my second car was an 85 Eagle (aka a Hornet with 4WD) but a Pinto over a Gremlin? Why? The Pinto doesn't have the 258 straight 6 which is the daddy of THE Jeep 4.0. That being said, the 'Gremlin' I'd like the most is this one:  even though it's technically an Eagle Kammback
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May 17, 2020 06:12
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CornHolio posted:AMC should have lived and Chrysler should have died. I only learned of AMC long after they stopped being a thing, we just weren't exposed to them here and yeah, I'm 110% with you on this one. The cars were just so much more interesting and fun looking.
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May 17, 2020 11:28
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Wheeee posted:I love this, and maintain that CUVs are only lame because people don't realize they're basically slow rally cars Not by a loooong shot, most of them poo poo themselves the moment a real gravel road appears. Unless you have a 1st or 2nd gen Forester .... which actually are rally cars and very fast ones in the GT or XT
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May 17, 2020 11:55
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KakerMix posted:I'm an AMC apologist since my first car was a 74 Hornet (aka a Gremlin without the cut-off rear end) and my second car was an 85 Eagle (aka a Hornet with 4WD) but a Pinto over a Gremlin? Why? The Pinto doesn't have the 258 straight 6 which is the daddy of THE Jeep 4.0. Yeah, that fits. AMC owners were always a bit... off. They marched to their own drummer, as it were. 
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May 17, 2020 13:19
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AMC's legacy lives on by inspiring a generation of German stylists. The Germans think the Eagle was the pinnacle of design and have been trying to replicate it with the X6 and other SUV coupes.
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May 17, 2020 13:44
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Deteriorata posted:All the cars in the 70s were pretty bland and crappy, but for a subcompact I'd take a Pinto over a Gremlin any day. Hmm I don't know about that, I've never owned a Gremlin but I've owned a Pinto and it was loving horrible. Now this is loving awesome and I'd take that over a Pinto all day long
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May 17, 2020 15:16
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Hmm I don't know about that, I've never owned a Gremlin but I've owned a Pinto and it was loving horrible. AMC gets great marks for styling, but under the skin it's essentially a '65 Rambler American.
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May 17, 2020 15:46
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Deteriorata posted:AMC gets great marks for styling, but under the skin it's essentially a '65 Rambler American. But most cars of that era were like that? Lots of the same basic body on frame underpinnings. Yeah the Pinto was unibody but it still drove like poo poo.
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May 17, 2020 16:02
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drgitlin posted:A $25,000 Mazda 3 has an interior that’s almost as good as a $40,000 Audi A4. I’d say it’s not a disaster at all. show me the volumes, then
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May 17, 2020 16:15
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Applebees Appetizer posted:But most cars of that era were like that? Lots of the same basic body on frame underpinnings. Yeah the Pinto was unibody but it still drove like poo poo. Well, the problem is that Ramblers weren't particularly sophisticated or refined. Their main selling point was cheapness. The design was dated and frumpy when it was new. Ten years later in the Gremlin it was basically the same with few improvements. AMC didn't have the money for the iterative engineering the Big Three could do to keep a basic chassis current. And that gets back to my original point was that the Gremlin was a great styling exercise and a terrific idea for a car that AMC just couldn't pull off properly due to lack of resources.
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May 17, 2020 16:54
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:show me the volumes, then
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May 17, 2020 17:53
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got off on a technicality posted:There are so many factors that go into sales volume (e.g. marketing, quality of dealer network) that have nothing to do with the intrinsic quality of a given car. If you don't think the quality is there, best to hang your argument on something other than sales volume... I agree the Mazda3 is great! It's just nobody is buying it which doesn't speak well to how compelling the product is TO YOUR AVERAGE CAR BUYER
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May 17, 2020 18:05
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I agree the Mazda3 is great! It's just nobody is buying it which doesn't speak well to how compelling the product is TO YOUR AVERAGE CAR BUYER The Toyota Yaris sedan has consistently outperformed the Mazda 2 it replaced in the US despite the subcompact market segment as a whole cratering over that time which seems to indicate that the average car buyer would buy more Mazdas if they were sold on Toyota lots with Toyota badges.
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May 17, 2020 20:58
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On sub-compacts, I just want to say that the Versa Note is the most depressing car I've ever driven.
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May 17, 2020 21:16
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Minto Took posted:On sub-compacts, I just want to say that the Versa Note is the most depressing car I've ever driven. I wheezed a Versa through I70 snow showers w two friends and full luggage to Aspen like 10 years ago and it was simultaneously harrowing and depressing.
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May 17, 2020 21:19
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I agree the Mazda3 is great! It's just nobody is buying it which doesn't speak well to how compelling the product is TO YOUR AVERAGE CAR BUYER The point, which you seem pathologically incapable of accepting, is that no one outside of this dead gay comedy forum wants to buy cars instead of SUVs, and no one in this dead gay comedy forum buys new cars.
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May 17, 2020 21:51
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