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AnimeIsTrash posted:Not really sure why the topic of veganism always brings out the brainworms in leftists. If you believe in the liberation of people from capitalism, it's not that big of a stretch to also believe other sentient beings should also be liberated. most mammalian animals are sentient only a handful have some levels of sapience
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May 19, 2020 17:00
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Goast posted:vegans aren't the only people that don't support the meat industry lmao yeah it seems like a pretty big deflection given this conversation started with an indigenous woman talking about sustainable indigenous hunting practices
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May 19, 2020 17:01
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I feel like the tweet would be clearer if they just tweeted the last sentence
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May 19, 2020 17:06
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Top City Homo posted:most mammalian animals are sentient only a handful have some levels of sapience So it's okay to exploit creatures with less sentience than you and me?
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May 19, 2020 17:06
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I think the tweet is fine tbh
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May 19, 2020 17:08
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AnimeIsTrash posted:So it's okay to exploit creatures with less sentience than you and me? It is until it is not we are at a level technologically that most factory style animal exploitation could be eliminated https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=_GgP6jo5DTM&feature=emb_logo
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May 19, 2020 17:18
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it conflates sustainability with morality, not the best tweet
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May 19, 2020 17:20
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On the one hand, some1 who believes in communism might say that an insatiable desire to continually consume things, including and especially preservative-, sugar- and salt-loaded processed meat products, on a daily basis, is one of the ways in which capitalism exists not just as an economic system but an all-encompassing mode of life, and alienates us from any pleasure which could be derived from anything besides buying and consuming, and that in a liberated communist society man would be free to find joy and happiness in things other than purchase and exchange. On the other hand, Five Guys Burger and Fries, shoving it into my fat face, grease trickles down the stubble on my skinnyfat chin, dripping on to my plain tan t-shirt, which is fashionable these days as a matter of fact, to have a t-shirt in one plain color.
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May 19, 2020 17:26
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Would anyone particularly mind if I posted here the full text of John Berger's chapter in About Looking about how the Western perception of animals has changed throughout history
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May 19, 2020 17:27
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Ruzihm posted:it conflates sustainability with morality, not the best tweet Anybody who has ever visited a slaughterhouse could tell you that our animal handling practices are cruel and inhumane and should be changed because they aren’t even necessary. The fact that we have to change it anyway because it is environmentally unsustainable is merely a happy coincidence.
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May 19, 2020 17:34
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Algund Eenboom posted:On the one hand, some1 who believes in communism might say that an insatiable desire to continually consume things, including and especially preservative-, sugar- and salt-loaded processed meat products, on a daily basis, is one of the ways in which capitalism exists not just as an economic system but an all-encompassing mode of life, and alienates us from any pleasure which could be derived from anything besides buying and consuming, and that in a liberated communist society man would be free to find joy and happiness in things other than purchase and exchange. On the other hand, Five Guys Burger and Fries, shoving it into my fat face, grease trickles down the stubble on my skinnyfat chin, dripping on to my plain tan t-shirt, which is fashionable these days as a matter of fact, to have a t-shirt in one plain color. When did plain t-shirts become fashionable anyway? I've seen it on both coasts, in multiple industries
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May 19, 2020 17:35
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sans-collar? sans-color? idk it’s some french word 
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May 19, 2020 17:49
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loving imagine thinking people wear plain tshirts as some sort of fashion statement holy poo poo
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May 19, 2020 17:55
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O Yeetus posted:When did plain t-shirts become fashionable anyway? I've seen it on both coasts, in multiple industries may be linked with the fact that blue collar work has switched from suits to casual wear. But the wear can't be too casual so it's plain colors then the rich people start wearing those even though they don't need to abide by any norms nor need practical clothes, just like with jeans
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May 19, 2020 17:59
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White Tee by Dem Franchise Boyz came out in 2004 lol, it isn’t a new concept
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May 19, 2020 18:00
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LittleBlackCloud posted:Does anyone know anything more about the Seychelles than can be gleaned from google? i would say that a "global or bust" approach to revolution combined with several cases of historical bad blood like in the ussr and china means that trotskyists end up repeating or even creating the precedent for capitalist attacks on socialist countries or on the global south generally. whether or not he meant to, trotsky basically wrote the western anticommunist playbook. you see, i support the NAME_OF_COUNTRY's people, not their evil and repressive government which has in truth betrayed the revolutionary spirit,
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May 19, 2020 18:03
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Feel like we all skimmed past the rear end in a top hat calling someone who's obviously indigenous white.
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May 19, 2020 18:06
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GalacticAcid posted:White Tee by Dem Franchise Boyz came out in 2004 lol, it isn’t a new concept That was a different thing
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May 19, 2020 18:06
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i think large scale factory farming is inhumane and a large push to more plant-based diets is probably correct revolutionary science but not eating meat is no way for me to live my life, sorryPrince Myshkin posted:Feel like we all skimmed past the rear end in a top hat calling someone who's obviously indigenous white. yeah that was some weird pantone swatch racism
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May 19, 2020 18:46
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i switched from a pretty carnivorous diet to a diet with 3-4 meat based dishes a week + cheese and eggs sometimes. Get my lifting proteins from beans. It's alright but I don't know if I'd go full vegetarian. Thanks for listening
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May 19, 2020 18:50
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AnimeIsTrash posted:Not really sure why the topic of veganism always brings out the brainworms in leftists. If you believe in the liberation of people from capitalism, it's not that big of a stretch to also believe other sentient beings should also be liberated. liberated *mike meyers as fat bastard voice* in me belly
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May 19, 2020 19:00
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smarxist posted:i think large scale factory farming is inhumane and a large push to more plant-based diets is probably correct revolutionary science but not eating meat is no way for me to live my life, sorry drat the tweet wins again
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May 19, 2020 19:02
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Top City Homo posted:It is until it is not Ah yes our tech bro overlords are going to save us.
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May 19, 2020 19:08
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AnimeIsTrash posted:Ah yes our tech bro overlords are going to save us. Unironically true in this case. Cultured meat is the only thing that's gonna stop the insane cruelty of meat production
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May 19, 2020 19:10
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quote:The decisive theoretical break came with Descartes. Descartes internalised, within man, the dualism implicit in the human relation to animals. In dividing absolutely body from soul, he bequeathed the body to the laws of physics and mechanics, and, since animals were soulless, the animal was reduced to the model of a machine.
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May 19, 2020 19:13
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AnimeIsTrash posted:Ah yes our tech bro overlords are going to save us. only increase in technology, productive and distributive forces can That's pretty obvious
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May 19, 2020 19:37
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Prince Myshkin posted:Feel like we all skimmed past the rear end in a top hat calling someone who's obviously indigenous white. ur right, I did
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May 19, 2020 19:37
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lol if every aspect of your lifestyle isn't real, raw communist poo poo as defined by grad students on twitter
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May 19, 2020 19:44
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i love him (NOT descartes)... did u know he voiced a character in grand theft auto
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May 19, 2020 20:57
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Seems to me that there's a pretty narrow band between natural+ethical sustainability and full vegetarianism. Imagine eating e.g. ten times less meat: that's not a reduction, it's a fundamental lifestyle change. You might have an orgy of meat on festive occasions and almost none regularly, you get the idea. 1/10 should be well on the optimistic side of estimates on how much meat could be produced free range or on what would otherwise be agricultural waste. Maybe there's no need to go full absolutist on that part, but it seems like a way better baseline for expectations than current production numbers.
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May 19, 2020 21:02
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exmarx posted:i love him (NOT descartes)... did u know he voiced a character in grand theft auto I didnt know that, very cool fact and very Awesome interaction
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May 19, 2020 21:14
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i have seen a guy try to shame an indigenous woman for eating meat, and so i assume it happens a lot
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May 19, 2020 21:44
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Ferrinus posted:i would say that a "global or bust" approach to revolution combined with several cases of historical bad blood like in the ussr and china means that trotskyists end up repeating or even creating the precedent for capitalist attacks on socialist countries or on the global south generally. whether or not he meant to, trotsky basically wrote the western anticommunist playbook. you see, i support the NAME_OF_COUNTRY's people, not their evil and repressive government which has in truth betrayed the revolutionary spirit, Agreed; but I'd also say a minor factor is a tendency, much more prominent online than off, to defend Stalin not as an honest communist, who was charged with defending the revolution in extremely difficult circumstances and did the best he could, by carefully studying why he made the decisions he did, but by basically cribbing C. S. Lewis' Trilemma, and once you adopt that argument, you pretty much have to insist that Trots in general are conscious fascist agents.
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May 19, 2020 21:45
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i often think about how the ISO counter-protested "Hands off Syria" protests in the US in supported of the FSA
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May 19, 2020 21:49
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Doc Hawkins posted:i have seen a guy try to shame an indigenous woman for eating meat, and so i assume it happens a lot There's nothing wrong with that if you consider animals to be individuals worthy of moral treatment. Like how you don't have to be okay with people doing FGM or slavery just because it's part of their culture
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May 19, 2020 21:56
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Atrocious Joe posted:i often think about how the ISO counter-protested "Hands off Syria" protests in the US in supported of the FSA Did you ever see the joke article that got passed around on facebook, where they're supporting the "American Revolution" against the blood-soaked "Lincoln Regime" and insisting that "not all rebel forces are pro-slavery" EDIT: ah, found it, not an article, just a meme: https://me.me/i/the-international-socialist-organization-feature-contrary-to-lincoln-regime-propaganda-16580237 Pomeroy fucked around with this message at 22:05 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 22:02
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O Yeetus posted:There's nothing wrong with that if you consider animals to be individuals worthy of moral treatment. Like how you don't have to be okay with people doing FGM or slavery just because it's part of their culture single-issue anti-meat people are unfortunate not because they are wrong about any metaphysical questions of morality, but because they are wrong about the material realities of building organizations. they remind me of people who can't shut up about bicycles. the sin isn't having a pet issue, it's lacking self-awareness.
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May 19, 2020 22:40
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Doc Hawkins posted:single-issue anti-meat people are unfortunate not because they are wrong about any metaphysical questions of morality, but because they are wrong about the material realities of building organizations. How many revolutionary communists do you reckon there are in the US, and how many vegetarians? Who, in your opinion, should be taking advice on "the material realities of building organizations" from who?
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May 19, 2020 23:12
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there are positive lessons to learn from the bicycle folks too, but you can't let them drive (hoho) your policy and public statements or you'll push away many actually marginalized people.
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May 20, 2020 00:06
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There is to make an argument for veganism/vegetarianism to address material circumstances but a lot of it would be simply to argue that the state should heavily subsidize meat/dairy alternatives. Just start mass producing oat milk and impossible meat patties and you could to everything you want. The problem right now is often price. I am not so into the moral grandstanding, which seems like every-day lib politics.
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May 20, 2020 00:11
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