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Nemesis Of Moles posted:this is, again, pretty basic 101 poo poo. Is it? You give two examples of bad behavior: (1) KS employee promoting their own work at the expense of others, and (2) KS employee snubbing rival's project in "the rankings" or "delaying it or something." For the first, we already know that KS supports employees' projects, enough that it's in their corporate charter. "Projects We Like" is always, always going to promote one product over another. Also note that the title, "Projects We Like," says that Kickstarter's employees like that project. Are you saying KS employees shouldn't be able to like their own projects? I think that would run afoul of Kickstarter's corporate charter, and it would be unethical for them to do that (and they could potentially be sued). And how would you ever know whether Luke Crane looked at your game while one of his was out, and said "Ha! Ha! I shall "like" my project and not that of Mr. Moles!" How would you know whether he did that for one of his friends in the industry? As for the second concern, you've run Kickstarters, so you know things I don't, but your second concern sounds like you made it up. What are these rankings? What's this about KS, rather than creators, indefinitely delaying a project? Conflicts disclosures are widespread practice because in some situations that kind of transparency is very important (contests where the outcome is determined by judges, bidding for government funding, fiduciary duties). Other examples are copying what they've seen in the necessary ones, or placating people who have extrapolated those necessary conflicts disclosures into an idea that such a disclosure is always necessary or somehow protects from "abuse" like a lucky charm.
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May 19, 2020 23:18
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homullus posted:Is it? Yes, disclosures are pretty basic professional behavior 101.
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May 19, 2020 23:23
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homullus posted:Is it? You give two examples of bad behavior: (1) KS employee promoting their own work at the expense of others, and (2) KS employee snubbing rival's project in "the rankings" or "delaying it or something." For the first, we already know that KS supports employees' projects, enough that it's in their corporate charter. "Projects We Like" is always, always going to promote one product over another. Also note that the title, "Projects We Like," says that Kickstarter's employees like that project. Are you saying KS employees shouldn't be able to like their own projects? I think that would run afoul of Kickstarter's corporate charter, and it would be unethical for them to do that (and they could potentially be sued). And how would you ever know whether Luke Crane looked at your game while one of his was out, and said "Ha! Ha! I shall "like" my project and not that of Mr. Moles!" How would you know whether he did that for one of his friends in the industry? As for the second concern, you've run Kickstarters, so you know things I don't, but your second concern sounds like you made it up. What are these rankings? What's this about KS, rather than creators, indefinitely delaying a project? this is dumb as poo poo my dude (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 19, 2020 23:26
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Nemesis Of Moles posted:this is dumb as poo poo my dude That's the homullus guarantee right there, friend.
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May 19, 2020 23:36
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GrandpaPants posted:Yes, disclosures are pretty basic professional behavior 101.
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May 19, 2020 23:36
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GrandpaPants posted:Yes, disclosures are pretty basic professional behavior 101.
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May 20, 2020 02:44
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Nemesis Of Moles posted:this is dumb as poo poo my dude because here's some commentary what section 4B of Kickstarter's corporate charter actually says: quote:Kickstarter will foster a supportive environment for employees to work on their own creative projects, including time off to pursue them.
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May 20, 2020 03:33
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Anyone have any thoughts on Mini Express? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/moaideas/mini-express-a-century-of-railroad-expansion-in-60-mins I've recommended it to a mate to check out cause these sorts of games are up his alley GrandpaPants posted:Yes, disclosures are pretty basic professional behavior 101. 
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May 20, 2020 09:37
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GrandpaPants posted:Yes, disclosures are pretty basic professional behavior 101.
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May 20, 2020 11:48
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This whole loving derail is dumb as gently caress, can it please die now? The only thing that actually might matter with all of this is that is possible that not including Luke Crane's name directly, wasn't clear enough, despite having a ton of games that he's the designer of listed. This isn't some nefarious plot, it's at worst an oversight, but more likely just an assumption that people would realize he's involved based on the projects listed. Dude is full of himself, there's like a 99% chance that he conflates his own name with everything he works on to the point that he can't imagine anyone would see those games and not immediately think "Oh, that's a Luke Crane Original (tm) game!"
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May 20, 2020 13:20
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The Gate posted:This whole loving derail is dumb as gently caress, can it please die now? The only thing that actually might matter with all of this is that is possible that not including Luke Crane's name directly, wasn't clear enough, despite having a ton of games that he's the designer of listed. "This derail needs to end. After I've told one side that they're completely wrong."
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May 20, 2020 13:26
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What else are we gonna talk about?
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May 20, 2020 13:27
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I’m looking forward to people complaining that saying “one of the creators is a KS employee” is actually trying to imply Kickstarter endorsement as an advertising and brand tactic.
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May 20, 2020 13:30
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silvergoose posted:What else are we gonna talk about? A War of Whispers: Dark Alliance went up recently. There's a collectors edition with a bunch of cool poo poo. I've played it a few times on TTS, and it's very fun. 
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May 20, 2020 13:30
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So I was intrigued by that but it seemed like there some (non-fatal but reasonable) criticisms about the first edition. Has this second edition addressed them?
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May 20, 2020 13:33
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Doctor Spaceman posted:So I was intrigued by that but it seemed like there some (non-fatal but reasonable) criticisms about the first edition. Has this second edition addressed them?
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May 20, 2020 13:43
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silvergoose posted:What else are we gonna talk about? Fun and interesting stuff for me to waste money on
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May 20, 2020 13:44
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silvergoose posted:What else are we gonna talk about? Someone mentioned the new Tiny Epic project a few pages back and not one person made a snarky or negative comment. That's when you know the derail has taken over the thread.
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May 20, 2020 13:45
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Redundant posted:Do you mind elaborating on the criticisms or let me know where I can find it? I like to see a negative take/review before I back anything to make sure I aren't just getting swept up by hype/FOMO. I've seen complaints about the rulebook, the readability of the board and the quality of some components. This edition looks like it's at least trying to address those complaints but I can't really tell (having played neither version).
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May 20, 2020 14:06
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Wolfsbane posted:"This derail needs to end. After I've told one side that they're completely wrong." Gentlemen! You can't discuss Kickstarter in here, it's the Kickstarter thread!
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May 20, 2020 14:24
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The Gate posted:Does anyone have any strong opinions about Mythic Games? They've got a Norse-themed survival horror kinda boardgame up on Kickstarter currently, and I'm tempted to get it for the minis alone. Seems like they've shipped other games, but a quick Google search isn't finding me anything that's standout for them one way or another. (E: Never mind I'm a guy who got Mythic and Mantic confused, disregard!) I backed their Hellboy board game a few years ago. The miniatures are very nice, and when one of them turned up broken, they replaced it at their own cost with no questions asked. I also backed the Kings of War Skirmish game a few years ago, and they accidentally sent me two copies of my rewards. When I contacted them, they told me to enjoy the windfall and to recruit friends to play or something. So no complaints for customer service. Hel looks mighty tempting for me as well, and I was thinking that even if the game is a turkey (and it seems like a cool survival game based on the video playthroughs) the miniatures ought to be good for a Chaos warband for warhams if nothing else. But Steampunk Rally also looks good... Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 14:50 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 14:44
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That's actually Mantic (who are very good) but not Mythic.
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May 20, 2020 14:46
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poo poo, you're right. All this time I was getting Mantic and Mythic confused.
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May 20, 2020 14:50
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I feel like this derail has saved me hundreds of dollars.
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May 20, 2020 15:13
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I've seen complaints about the rulebook, the readability of the board and the quality of some components. This edition looks like it's at least trying to address those complaints but I can't really tell (having played neither version). The game sounds a little like PaxRug with some mechanics stripped out to really focus on the whole "manipulating big armies into wars for your benefit" element.
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May 20, 2020 15:57
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The Gate posted:This whole loving derail is dumb as gently caress, can it please die now? The only thing that actually might matter with all of this is that is possible that not including Luke Crane's name directly, wasn't clear enough, despite having a ton of games that he's the designer of listed. You're assuming that everyone else knows what you know about industry authors. That's part of the whole derail. Crane isn't Elon Musk or even Gary Gygax. A hilariously small number of people have heard of him.
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May 20, 2020 16:17
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I would back a KS to move on from this debate (assuming it had a pledge manager). edit: For actual content, I keep looking at the Bullet(Hearts) design from Level99. I can't decide if I think the game looks fun, or if I just like the aesthetic.
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May 20, 2020 16:18
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Agrias120 posted:I would back a KS to move on from this debate (assuming it had a pledge manager). Can you tell me who is involved in this kickstarter? It sounds like something I would totally support but I'm not all that into supporting assholes.
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May 20, 2020 16:22
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Its worth noting that Luke Crane being a KS employee probably should be disclosed since he DOES bend the rules for his friends. He is personal friends with the owners of Onyx Path and lets them skirt the rules on things like "how many Kickstarters you can run at once," "starting a Kickstarter while another isn't complete," and other things in that wheelhouse.
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May 20, 2020 16:28
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One one hand I don't want to back, because gently caress 'em, that's why & even if he's not doing this exact thing he's probably doing something else that sucks On the other hand it is a great game for a good price. Sometimes I have to think of myself. Hold up just realized I can do one and join in on the other anyway 
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May 20, 2020 16:29
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armorer posted:I feel like this derail has saved me hundreds of dollars. I actually have a decent amount of disposable income for the first time in years and am deeply susceptible to FOMO. This thread protected my bank account from Ankh and another recent big mini KS that turned out to be run by a company with a bad track record (name is escaping me at the moment). Thank you, goons, for saving me from myself.
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May 20, 2020 16:48
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silvergoose posted:What else are we gonna talk about? The kickstarter for Tiny Epic Pirates
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May 20, 2020 16:53
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theironjef posted:You're assuming that everyone else knows what you know about industry authors. That's part of the whole derail. Crane isn't Elon Musk or even Gary Gygax. A hilariously small number of people have heard of him. How then, would having the name Luke Crane listed, change anything for those people? Either they're going to research the previous games that are listed, and see that he's involved in them, or they're not going to. If they don't know who Luke Crane is beforehand, then whether it's his name or his game is going to give you the relevant info to look at.
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May 20, 2020 16:59
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I have no idea who Luke Crane is, didn't know he works for Kickstarter but was considering backing Torchbearer. I'm not sure that information would change my decision much but disclosure would be a nice gesture that would foster some good will. It's not a particularly accurate comparison but anytime I don't see full disclosure it does make me think of things like the CS:GO roulette nonsense. If it's not a big deal disclosure is an easy way to put people's mind at ease and to look forthcoming and professional.
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May 20, 2020 17:05
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Covok posted:Its worth noting that Luke Crane being a KS employee probably should be disclosed since he DOES bend the rules for his friends. He is personal friends with the owners of Onyx Path and lets them skirt the rules on things like "how many Kickstarters you can run at once," "starting a Kickstarter while another isn't complete," and other things in that wheelhouse. I'm not sure those rules are being enforced to any substantial degree just in general. At least, I've seen lots of violations thereof.
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May 20, 2020 17:21
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Covok posted:Its worth noting that Luke Crane being a KS employee probably should be disclosed since he DOES bend the rules for his friends. He is personal friends with the owners of Onyx Path and lets them skirt the rules on things like "how many Kickstarters you can run at once," "starting a Kickstarter while another isn't complete," and other things in that wheelhouse. Are you saying that Luke specifically makes those decisions on that basis? KS enforcement of those rules is pretty lax all over the site, not just in RPGs.
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May 20, 2020 17:34
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The Gate posted:How then, would having the name Luke Crane listed, change anything for those people? Either they're going to research the previous games that are listed, and see that he's involved in them, or they're not going to. If they don't know who Luke Crane is beforehand, then whether it's his name or his game is going to give you the relevant info to look at. Well first of all, you realize this isn't about Luke Crane, right? It's about Kickstarter employees with potential positions of power and influence in their own company serving as quiet partners in campaigns. Luke Crane is just an example. This also isn't about the quality of his previous work, because again, it's not about him or his output. Could just as easily be someone in the non-gaming sections of KS playing favorites with his buddy the tactical flashlight with a knife in it guy. With that in mind, why would you be against disclosing? Against, for example, changing "Risks and Challenges" to "Risks, Challenges, and Disclosures" and including "A contributor to this product is also a Kickstarter employee?" What would the reasoning not to do that be?
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May 20, 2020 17:36
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Queen Games in particular never runs campaigns concurrently, but they flagrantly violate the "don't run a new campaign before you fulfill the old one" all the time. I've reported it several times, but I always get a "Nope, no violation here" notice back.
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May 20, 2020 17:38
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theironjef posted:With that in mind, why would you be against disclosing? Against, for example, changing "Risks and Challenges" to "Risks, Challenges, and Disclosures" and including "A contributor to this product is also a Kickstarter employee?" What would the reasoning not to do that be? It might look like an endorsement, or signal of quality?
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May 20, 2020 17:42
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there is a 0 percent chance kickstarter would not make it look like an endorsement. What are they going to say? "be careful, this guy works for us?"
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May 20, 2020 18:16
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