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axeil posted:It's more that you need to not use normal torches in half the biomes in the game and it's not really explained anywhere. I'm fine with the buffs but the penalties for using standard torches is bizarre. Basically this. It's punishing the player for using an item that the game throws at them constantly from the word go. Normal rear end zombies are now walking around in the overworld holding regular torches, so running out is all but impossible even outside of journey mode. No matter how you slice it, punishing a player for engaging with a system they don't know is there because it's literally explained nowhere is A Dick Move. Yes it's something that can be adjusted to now that we know it's there, but Red was seemingly content to let this little "gently caress you" sit in the game and not say a word about it. If he doesn't like normal torches so much, then why have them at all? Why not just remove them outright?
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May 20, 2020 14:19
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watho posted:does it make the game worse or does it make your current situation worse? if you knew about it from the start would using the correct torches actually make your game experience worse? Yeah it would just be an extra annoyance
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May 20, 2020 14:22
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btw the penalty for normal torches outside of the ice biome is a 10% chance for the rolls to be halved
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May 20, 2020 14:22
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The entire system would be basically a tenth as annoying as it currently is if you could just mouse over a given torch and get a "suitable/unsuitable torch for current biome" line in its tooltip. It doesn't seem like that is asking too much. It would both inform people that torches matter at the same time as making it easier to judge whether you're using the right type at any point in the game.
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May 20, 2020 14:24
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Even if I'm playing with the wiki open, at what point do I think to look for a luck page? After I rescue the wizard? At that point I've already spammed normal torches everywhere.
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May 20, 2020 14:29
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watho posted:does it make the game worse or does it make your current situation worse? if you knew about it from the start would using the correct torches actually make your game experience worse? both and I'm actually not aware of any other opaque stuff that actively punishes the player but if there is anything then yeah i have a problem
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May 20, 2020 14:31
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to put that number in perspective if you’re farming for a blindfold with normal torches that chance goes from 2% to 1.9% while if you use the biome torch it goes to 2.4!
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May 20, 2020 14:31
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I'm glad I've been using Ultrabright torches because I'm blind as gently caress and like to see things. That luck thing is dumb.
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May 20, 2020 14:36
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I came to the thread to hopefully see some posts of people showing off their pixel art mansions. Instead I learned about the existence of a dumb hidden luck mechanic apparently implemented out of spite by a dev. And people defending it. And praising that it is hidden from the player.
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May 20, 2020 14:40
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ultimately i can't really bring myself to give that much of a poo poo about it
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May 20, 2020 14:54
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in other news, whoops i built my boss arena next to my town and now everyone is dead (including me, because i am bad). i forgot how much of a step up hard mode is Deformed Church fucked around with this message at 15:01 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 14:59
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Deformed Church posted:in other news, whoops i built my boss arena next to my town and now everyone is dead (including me, because i am bad). Congratulations on your new graveyard biome! 
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May 20, 2020 15:01
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Funniest thing about this torch episode: if the devs had just left it as a hidden bonus it would've been a "oh cool" thing as opposed to "gently caress you for not doing this exact thing I'm not going to tell you about".
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May 20, 2020 15:03
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let's see what this actually does: (source: https://terraria.gamepedia.com/Luck) -> being within 42 tiles of a regular torch does: -> nothing in most places (forest, dungeon, underworld, ocean, sky, jungle) -> gives a -0.5 modifier in desert/corruption/hallow/crimson, -> -2 modifier in snow (let's ignore snow biomes for now) So, in the case that you are in the desert, corruption, crimson or hallow, and within 42 tiles of a torch (or multiple, they don't stack), you get a -0.5 modifier. If there are no other modifiers, this will result in your luck stat being lowered by 0.1. The modifier is not the same as the luck stat! What does luck do? If the player's luck is less than 0, then there is a (-100 * luck)% chance that the chance is halved. So, if you're looking for a drop that normally occurs in 10% of the cases, your -0.1 luck stat will lead to 10% chance of halving that chance. 9 times 10% chance + 1 times 5% chance divided by 10 times = 9.5% chance overall (lowering the chance by 0.5%) If the base chance of dropping is 1% this bad luck will lead to an overall drop rate of 0.95% instead (lowering the chance by 0.05%) SO! the worst effect of spamming torches everwhere will lead to a drop rate reduction that is very small, as to be unnoticable in regular play. Is it a good mechanic? No. Is it a complicated and obfuscated mechanic? Yes. Does it matter? Not really!
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May 20, 2020 15:04
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Basic Torch Penalties existing in the first place regardless of "But the math says-" is still more baffling than the Meteor changes. And those have only gotten even more confusing in hindsight after initial optimism of "Well uh... intended progression???" has deflated. "So, WHY the meteor changes?" "It would be TOO EASY if you could get them before beating- "No, no. We're past that. Even made another world to kill the brain too. Honestly I'm not even using the meteor armor, space gun, OR Phase blade because too little too late. I mostly wanted the cool furniture. No.... WHY make meteor immune to explosives?" "IT would be TOO EASY if you didn't have to WORK for-" "I've made an obsidian skull before even killing the eater from a convenient early pocket of lava. Also this latest meteor landed in the edge of the corruption so that's even more dig through (But zero corruption enemies showed up). Meteor heads die to my crimson pickaxe autoswing. This is just boring. Come ooooon. Let my sticky bombs work. Refer back to challenge being long behind us." "...But it would be... too easy to make space bullets outside of journey mode otherwise?" They already shoved it past the early game segment spam bosses where the infinite ammo piercing would have been the most bang for your buck. The explosives immunity just feels petty.
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May 20, 2020 15:06
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Samopsa posted:Is it a good mechanic? No. This.
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May 20, 2020 15:07
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the reason for the meteor change is so you can’t cheese it, you have to deal with the enemy and hazard of the mini biome if you want the rewards
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May 20, 2020 15:10
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Luck also effects combat rolls, so it's a little more impactful than just slightly lowered drop rates. Presuming it only effects them by a similarly low percentage, then it's not a HUGE deal but...why.
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May 20, 2020 15:12
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watho posted:the reason for the meteor change is so you can’t cheese it, you have to deal with the enemy and hazard of the mini biome if you want the rewards You can't even get meteor until after you kill the Eater or worlds or Brain now. No scared fragile weakling praying to the sky gods so they can throw their seven whole bombs in the world at the first meteor. Plus this delay means you'll have a Nightmare or Crimson pickaxe anyways. Which as mentioned earlier resulting in block swap being able to work on meteor anyways, even if you don't have an early fireproofing method. So... WHY make them immune to explosives? It's entirely pointless. You aren't preventing cheese, you're just making it a slog. Meteor heads aren't going to shove you onto the meteor blocks like some kind of challenging and meaningful hazard either. Because now it's gated until after you've got a pickaxe that can kill all of them by accident swinging, and enough health and armor to not give a poo poo if you get set on fire anyways. At most it makes you tempted to just ignore later meteors because clearing out later ones feels more like janitorial work to exterminate a flying rat infestation, rather than anything approaching "You need to work for your REWARD!". Section Z fucked around with this message at 15:24 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 15:17
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As mentioned, at the highest end it has a chance of inducing a 30% chance of getting -50% on basically everything you do, which is pretty substantial in a fight. It's basically a non-issue if you know about it and prepare accordingly, but for people who aren't obsessive enough to do a Wiki check about every new mechanic an update might have introduced, suddenly suffering from up to -15% overall damage in a boss fight with no idea why or that it's even there is a pretty lovely deal, and not exactly minor.
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May 20, 2020 15:20
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Cicadalek posted:Luck also effects combat rolls, so it's a little more impactful than just slightly lowered drop rates. Presuming it only effects them by a similarly low percentage, then it's not a HUGE deal but...why. the combat roll is a bit more complicated and the way it works is that if you have negative luck it rolls a second number and if it’s lower than the first it will use that one instead. positive luck works the opposite way. it’s not possible to calculate a flat number and the only big fight it’s going to affect is EoW/BoC since most other fights where that spread will matter will be done in places where normal torches don’t give negative luck
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May 20, 2020 15:23
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I like the changes to the meteorite ore. And it's possible to jump straight to a molten pick after getting the nightmare one, so I ended up mining my first and only meteorite with a molten pick, the 25% mine speed ancient chisel, and a mining potion. Took me maybe 5 minutes to mine it all out on a Master mode world, with incidental killing of meteor heads as they got close (not with the pick). I don't really see what's the big deal regarding it. I'm glad the explosive cheese is gone. Also, it gives more earlyish game options for explosive killing of enemies without destroying the arena area. I don't see anyone complaining that hellstone ore or dungeon brick or hardmode ores are immune to explosives... Anyway, regarding torch luck. Seems like a nice way to boost fishing for crates.. does this ocean setup look good? Got 3 bone torches on top and 3 coral torches in the water.  And yes, that is the lava shark mount, summoned with Superheated Blood from the Obsidian Crate. edit: in about 5 minutes i've gotten 6 reaver sharks, 2 golden crates and 4 iron crates so it seems to be good. either that or i had a crazy luck streak. only fishing the reaver sharks to vendor. Ambaire fucked around with this message at 15:44 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 15:40
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the mounts, pets, and vanity items in the update are so loving good
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May 20, 2020 15:43
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Samopsa posted:let's see what this actually does: This makes me feel better about it and I don't think I'm going to go and reset the torches in the corruption and desert. The snow still makes no sense, since I think that decline is much larger, like 50%+ or so.
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May 20, 2020 15:54
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Ssthalar posted:Congratulations on your new graveyard biome! I already had one of those! I met some pirate friends very early on 
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May 20, 2020 16:11
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pre:Torch Preferred Biome(s) Positive Score Negative Score
Bone Torch Anywhere except for Snow biome, Desert, 0.5 0
Jungle, Corruption, Crimson and Hallow.
Alternately, do background wall tiles affect biome determination? Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 16:13 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 16:11
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"Actually a penalty for an unintuitive, unexplained mechanic that reduces your damage and drops is good!" is the weirdest loving hill to die on. It's minor in the grand scheme of things. But it doesn't make it not lovely. There's literally no reason to defend it. It makes a brilliant game a little less so. "Guys, there's only a LITTLE lead in the drinking water! And it you really care, you can just filter it! I don't know why everyone's getting so angry."
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May 20, 2020 16:35
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If I want a flying carpet these days, is it better to spam small, medium, or large worlds? Alternatively, I guess I could use the 1.3.x version of TerraCustom to make a pyramidal world and import it to 1.4...Saxophone posted:"Actually a penalty for an unintuitive, unexplained mechanic that reduces your damage and drops is good!" is the weirdest loving hill to die on. the 'lead in the drinking water' is a loving awful analogy If someone takes advantage of it, it can improve drop rates/etc and reduce grinding. Terraria has always been a 'use the wiki' game and I'm thankful someone pointed this mechanic out before I got too deeply involved in my current large world. I love it.
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May 20, 2020 16:36
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Ambaire posted:
All of my analogies are awful. Every time. But so are this mechanic and the people defending it. 
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May 20, 2020 16:40
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Saxophone posted:"Actually a penalty for an unintuitive, unexplained mechanic that reduces your damage and drops is good!" is the weirdest loving hill to die on. id like to refer to your avatar
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May 20, 2020 17:01
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*drives up to flint, michigan* yeah, yeah, i heard about the water thing. that sucks. i gotta put down differently-colored torches in terraria, on my end. life is full of trials, it seems like
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May 20, 2020 17:04
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Honestly, if there was a better reason behind the Torch Luck mechanic, I wouldn't hate it AS much. But the fact it's literally "Lol punish the players with a hidden mechanic because I abhor people using regular torches" is an assinine and frankly childish reasoning. It's even punctuated by making regular torches have NO positive luck value at all, which is just a LITTLE unfair to people who are balls deep in a Large Master world and didn't know it was even a thing in the first place. If the mechanic didn't have negative modifiers put on it and only positive ones to reward the player for "playing the game right", I doubt it would have been AS badly received, but as of uright now it's just an rear end in a top hat way to force people to play the game as RED wants them to, because gently caress you for not scouring the wiki on your phone religously I suppose.
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May 20, 2020 17:12
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please do not comb through your entire world replacing every single one of your thousands of placed torches I beg of you. the radius of effect is extremely small and the luck difference is minor. at the very MOST only clean up your dedicated boss arenas and farming spots.
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May 20, 2020 17:21
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its a silly thing to get mad about but being able to effectively lower your drop rate for rare items by a quarter is pretty significant.
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May 20, 2020 17:24
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I find this mechanic intensely annoying because the easiest way to place torches is by holding shift. But that won't pick out the correct torch. So now I need to fiddle around in my inventory to put the correct one on my hotbar and constantly switch to it. And for what? This does nothing compelling for the gameplay.
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May 20, 2020 17:28
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If you have a biome torch and a regular torch next to each other, does it pick the closest one, or does it add the bonus and malus together? Edit: Also yeah it seems weird that if Red really doesn't like people using torches where they shouldn't be, why didn't he just make it so that holding shift places the correct biome torch instead of making you shuffle your inventory around whenever you go to a new biome?
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May 20, 2020 17:29
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Also torches cancel each other out. One positive torch cancels seven hundred bad ones in 42 block radius. So plant a single jungle torch on your jungle arena and forget about it.
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May 20, 2020 17:29
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In non-torch related things, it's amazing at how much easier the hardmode/expert bosses are once you get the mechanical bosses down. I mean don't get me wrong, Plantera and Golem were absolute motherfuckers, but it wasn't like throwing myself into the endless meatgrinder that was Skeletron Prime or The Destroyer when you barely have any hardmode equipment (because most of it is gated behind those very bosses). Though I admit after about 10 attempts at Skeletron Prime with low percentage wipes I flipped on God Mode because gently caress it. I'm probably going to make a new world with the 05162020 seed and make that my permanent home. I like the new music that it has.
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May 20, 2020 17:30
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Jesus christ, I'm probably just gonna end up repeating things, but dammit watho watho posted:i mean complaining that something important isn’t explained in game in terraria is kinda weird to me. the main reason we know as much as we do is because the community has figured it out and updated the wiki and such. knowing when herbs bloom is really important but isn’t explained in game either. if you care about farming drops you’re already reading the wiki religiously to begin with but if you’re just going through the game it’s not going to matter watho posted:one of the big things people tell new players is that you should play it with the wiki open, there’s a lot of opaque poo poo in the game already. if you dislike the game not telling you about it’s game mechanics you probably don’t like terraria to begin with. figuring out how to access the dungeon, spawn EoW/BoC, and spawn wall of flesh without being told how to is neigh impossible and way less intuitive than “maybe i should use desert torch in desert and jungle torch in jungle” Those are incredibly lovely comparisons, because the result for all of those is that something visible happens. The flowers bloom, you can see them. Eater of Worlds appears, as a huge boss, with plenty of warning. They're not comparable in any way to a moderate, invisible penalty from luck mechanics. And " *breaks a mystery purple orb* "Hey, loot! Cool. Oh, I also got a message about terrible screams and darkness. Maybe breaking the orb things isn't a great idea? Well, not like that's gonna stop me." *breaks another orb* "Yep, more spooky things." *breaks another orb* "AW poo poo SOME KINDA SHADOW WORM, poo poo'S GOING DOWN" *walks up to dungeon* Old Man: "KILL ME TO BREAK THE CURSE, BUT BE SURE TO BE PREPARED FIRST" "Heh, alright guy, maybe later, sounds like some kinda boss fight. Lemme check out this building... *instantly gibbed by a big skull* "Ah, gotcha, THERE'S the curse." watho posted:does it make the game worse or does it make your current situation worse? if you knew about it from the start would using the correct torches actually make your game experience worse? Well, to the first part: Yeah, marginally. Torches are, or were, an aesthetic thing. People liked different colors for different things. For my part, I especially liked using basic torches in the ice area, which warmed up the palette nicely, and didn't like ultrabright torches, which are an awkward blue-white light, but gently caress those specific aesthetic preferences, right? It's fine to have hundreds of other items that are just aesthetic, but god forbid people have free choice of lighting, that's a bridge too far. And for the second: I honestly don't know, because this torch poo poo (not even the other aspects of luck! JUST the torch part!) is the most opaque poo poo in the game that I know of. Maybe Duke Fishron is on a similar level, and it took me like a hundred hours to figure it out, but even then it's got a chain of actual logic. A hard-to-notice worm, like other fishing lures, you fish with it in the biggest watery area, boom, there you go. It's not "TORCHES are not BAD FOR YOU, but we won't TELL YOU"
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May 20, 2020 17:33
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What is special about the date seed?
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