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Max Wilco
Jan 23, 2012

I'm just trying to go through life without looking stupid.

It's not working out too well...

cigaw posted:

Oh boy that'd be neat.

My brother and I just got back to playing D2 after more than a decade. It's fascinating how much I suck at this game now.

I'm honestly kind of worried, considering what happened with the Warcraft III Remastered. One post I saw about it had someone wondering if they were going to strip out the Necromancer class.

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Suburban Dad
Jan 10, 2007


Well what's attached to a leash that it made itself?
The punchline is the way that you've been fuckin' yourself




I thought it was pretty unlikely in the first place because they didn't have the source code anymore supposedly?

Star Man
Jun 1, 2008

There's a star maaaaaan
Over the rainbow
I think the code is still around, it's the art assets that aren't.

George
Nov 27, 2004

No love for your made-up things.
Gosh, I wonder how Blizzard could possibly go and gently caress this up?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
https://quiet-springs-45295.herokuapp.com/

There's this demo of a guy that's using "AI" to upscale the original D2 graphics. Just give them enough Folding@home resources to do the rest of the art and we're home free.

life_source
May 11, 2008

i got tired of looking at your edgy baby avatar that a 14-year old would be proud of
That doesn't look great. The character models look worse, and the background barely looks any better.

Star Man
Jun 1, 2008

There's a star maaaaaan
Over the rainbow

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://quiet-springs-45295.herokuapp.com/

There's this demo of a guy that's using "AI" to upscale the original D2 graphics. Just give them enough Folding@home resources to do the rest of the art and we're home free.

It looks like those lovely filters on console emulators

cigaw
Sep 13, 2012
Just found a Tal ammy on an Andy run and now all I need is Tal armor to complete the set. Anybody know what one is going for these days on USEast sc ladder? Don't think I'll be able to mf it myself anytime soon.

Tubgoat
Jun 30, 2013

by sebmojo
Diablo II post-duping makes me kinda glad that all items of value in D3 are account-bound.

Laslow
Jul 18, 2007

cigaw posted:

Just found a Tal ammy on an Andy run and now all I need is Tal armor to complete the set. Anybody know what one is going for these days on USEast sc ladder? Don't think I'll be able to mf it myself anytime soon.
Target the guy in Act 5 at the entrance of the cavern system. Act 5 is the only place to get set and unique armors. There’s a chance you can find a Tyrael’s Might you can trade for one too.

You could also continue running Andy for SoJ’s/Mara’s to trade as well.

cigaw
Sep 13, 2012
Thanks for the tip! I was lucky enough to snag a drop from a Baal run! And then a random dude gave me some nice gear.

Everything's looking up Milhouse.

Laslow
Jul 18, 2007

cigaw posted:

And then a random dude gave me some nice gear.

Everything's looking up Milhouse.
That’s the best part about getting grouped with random botters. There’s too much good gear to go around.

WITCHCRAFT
Aug 28, 2007

Berries That Burn

Laslow posted:

That’s the best part about getting grouped with random botters. There’s too much good gear to go around.

My favorite part of chaos/baal runs with random bots was always manually hoovering up some loot faster than the cyborg AI could manage. PING IS KING, I FASTER THAN ROBOT CLICKY MAN

wet_goods
Jun 21, 2004

I'M BAAD!
Excited for the remaster.

Is anyone playing the reign of terror mod on grim dawn? It's not bad for a mod, just finished act 1 and some scenes are very close recreations of the original

Im_Special
Jan 2, 2011

Look At This!!! WOW!
It's F*cking Nothing.
Is the remaster even confirmed? Wasn't it debunked with that Tony Hawk game?

Suburban Dad
Jan 10, 2007


Well what's attached to a leash that it made itself?
The punchline is the way that you've been fuckin' yourself




Im_Special posted:

Is the remaster even confirmed? Wasn't it debunked with that Tony Hawk game?

They're really remaking pro skater 1 and 2...

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 16 hours!

Im_Special posted:

Is the remaster even confirmed? Wasn't it debunked with that Tony Hawk game?

There's almost definitely going to be a remaster if there's anyone competent still at blizz. Both to build hype, as a way to offset the diablo immortal resentment (which they still plan to release this year) and because it's the 20th anniversary of D2.

So if it was going to happen, it would be now.

Khorne
May 1, 2002

Herstory Begins Now posted:

There's almost definitely going to be a remaster if there's anyone competent still at blizz.
A D2 remaster has unbelievably massive hurdles. They apparently lost original assets, the network code is going to be wc3 x 1000 in terms of effort required to clean up and bnet2.0ize it - even the single player uses the multiplayer server:client structure, the rendering engine's best form is glide, and a proper d2 remaster would require significant changes to netcode to clean up massive desyncs.

I'd love if they just released an "HD" client as a remaster that was interchangeable with the old client. Something even more basic than sc:r. That's the only way I could see a d2 remaster by modern Blizzard working.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 06:34 on May 20, 2020

Star Man
Jun 1, 2008

There's a star maaaaaan
Over the rainbow
That's frankly all I'd want. And better drop rates, but mostly just the StarCraft: Remastered treatment.

Im_Special
Jan 2, 2011

Look At This!!! WOW!
It's F*cking Nothing.

Herstory Begins Now posted:

There's almost definitely going to be a remaster if there's anyone competent still at blizz. Both to build hype, as a way to offset the diablo immortal resentment (which they still plan to release this year) and because it's the 20th anniversary of D2.

So if it was going to happen, it would be now.

Oh, so it's not going to happen then. /sad

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 16 hours!

Khorne posted:

A D2 remaster has unbelievably massive hurdles. They apparently lost original assets, the network code is going to be wc3 x 1000 in terms of effort required to clean up and bnet2.0ize it - even the single player uses the multiplayer server:client structure, the rendering engine's best form is glide, and a proper d2 remaster would require significant changes to netcode to clean up massive desyncs.

I'd love if they just released an "HD" client as a remaster that was interchangeable with the old client. Something even more basic than sc:r. That's the only way I could see a d2 remaster by modern Blizzard working.

Yeah I can't imagine that they would try anything super ambitious, but literally just rereleasing it with somewhat better textures, the ability to use larger resolutions than 800x600 and leaving basically everything else the same would honestly be enough to make most people happy to shell out 20 or 30 bucks for it again. If they could find a way to get it running at something other than 25fps without breaking the gameplay all the better. For the number of issues d2 legitimately has, most of the big ones are probably too systems-level to really undertake fixing.

Imo if they could take one lesson from the WC3 remaster it would be to take each individual component they want to change and ask 'does this add enjoyment to the game?' because like 95% of the poo poo that was changed in WC3R were things that weren't really making the game more fun for anyone.

loving with gameplay changes is a huge minefield as they clearly had a formula that worked really well. The itemization in D2 is legitimately pretty amazing, especially for it's time, but he one glaring thing that needs an official fix is high rune drop rates, but outside of that, it remains as playable for someone playing offline as someone playing online.

I really hope that if it happens it gets the bare minimum treatment

Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 08:15 on May 20, 2020

Olpainless
Jun 30, 2003
... Insert something brilliantly witty here.

Herstory Begins Now posted:

Yeah I can't imagine that they would try anything super ambitious, but literally just rereleasing it with somewhat better textures, the ability to use larger resolutions than 800x600 and leaving basically everything else the same would honestly be enough to make most people happy to shell out 20 or 30 bucks for it again. If they could find a way to get it running at something other than 25fps without breaking the gameplay all the better. For the number of issues d2 legitimately has, most of the big ones are probably too systems-level to really undertake fixing.

Imo if they could take one lesson from the WC3 remaster it would be to take each individual component they want to change and ask 'does this add enjoyment to the game?' because like 95% of the poo poo that was changed in WC3R were things that weren't really making the game more fun for anyone.

loving with gameplay changes is a huge minefield as they clearly had a formula that worked really well. The itemization in D2 is legitimately pretty amazing, especially for it's time, but he one glaring thing that needs an official fix is high rune drop rates, but outside of that, it remains as playable for someone playing offline as someone playing online.

I really hope that if it happens it gets the bare minimum treatment

I agree with the first part of this, that there's a lot of work to be done, but the second, re: gameplay changes? Nope, there's some serious stuff to be done there as well. Most builds are completely unviable at later difficulties, entire certain classes just pretty much suck, a lot of stuff is borked (for instance, amazon arrow skills don't add AR properly), there's big issues with internal systems like NextDelay and LastTarget, itemisation IS actually pretty bad (most of the stuff like %elemental damage, -% resistances, etc, should absolutely be available on random items, not just a few godlike things), immunity breaking should be simpler ( again, -% res should probably break immunity).

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 16 hours!
I don't disagree with that, but that's a pretty alarmingly big undertaking to try to fix all that stuff.

The stats definitely should be available in different places (albeit at that point you're basically remaking the d2's item system into POE's item system, which while not a bad thing, idk if that's a direction to take d2). Other than some weird ways that character power plateaus, you progress in character strength at a pretty good, consistent but non-linear way. This is where the zone levels really shine because you always have several sources of new, better equipment (to bump yourself up to the next tier of power, eg farming nightmare meph to get some good early-endgame uniques that will pretty quickly get you up to farming hell mode Pit or Ancient Tunnels for legit endgame gear.

Both early and late game probably too much power is in rune words. Ofc the problem there is that end game ones are obviously virtually impossible to get and the early game ones are pretty fuckin esoteric to even know about or come down to rng to aquire if you aren't already aware of countess runs for low rune farming.

Still, I think all these things work pretty drat well together and it requires a real amount of game knowledge to get to the point where you can roll a new character and make it through the acts quickly.

I suspect a lot of the meaningful way that D2 maintained peoples' interest so intently was that you always are alternating between more carefully pushing some harder content and then retreating back and blitzing 50 rhadamants or pindleskins or whatever for some upgrades and there were always some different options for how to get various upgrades. That said, once the game hit the point where you're just trying to get a chance at a better roll on some extremely rare unique, yeah that's dumb, but that's also the sign it's time to play a new build or whatever.

Also I really don't know how you upgrade D2s item system without it seemingly extremely derivative of POE. GGG intentionally designed their item system to be extremely similar to D2 except with a bit more of an eye about having non-unique items end up at a comparable strength or value as unique items. They had essentially the same concern with D2s loot and addressed it in a way that basically has kept that balance well for a long time.

I'll shutup now, I have a lot of thoughts about D2 because it's one of the deeper games I've played. It somehow manages to be both a simple dungeon crawler that a 10 year old can figure out how to play, while also being a game with a huge amount of depth and complexity that I am still learning new things about.

Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 11:08 on May 20, 2020

Olpainless
Jun 30, 2003
... Insert something brilliantly witty here.

Herstory Begins Now posted:

I don't disagree with that, but that's a pretty alarmingly big undertaking to try to fix all that stuff.

The stats definitely should be available in different places (albeit at that point you're basically remaking the d2's item system into POE's item system, which while not a bad thing, idk if that's a direction to take d2). Other than some weird ways that character power plateaus, you progress in character strength at a pretty good, consistent but non-linear way. This is where the zone levels really shine because you always have several sources of new, better equipment (to bump yourself up to the next tier of power, eg farming nightmare meph to get some good early-endgame uniques that will pretty quickly get you up to farming hell mode Pit or Ancient Tunnels for legit endgame gear.

The main thing that comes to mind for adding elemental damage, etc, is rings, amulets, staves, wands etc - the class specific stuff mostly (and it'd also give meaningful choice, if, for instance, %elemental could only be on stave and not orbs, just as an example). At least then it means people can be excited about rares as well, again.

Physical characters tend to get limited by weapon damage so obscenely in Hell that something needs to be better there, I think.

I really liked the 1.07 class crafting stuff too, that'd be nice to see re-added. And more mid-range, and weird runewords. Just MORE STUFF.

Herstory Begins Now posted:

Both early and late game probably too much power is in rune words. Ofc the problem there is that end game ones are obviously virtually impossible to get and the early game ones are pretty fuckin esoteric to even know about or come down to rng to aquire if you aren't already aware of countess runs for low rune farming.

Still, I think all these things work pretty drat well together and it requires a real amount of game knowledge to get to the point where you can roll a new character and make it through the acts quickly.

Rune words are nice, but they're so skewed towards low and high with nothing decent in the middle.


Herstory Begins Now posted:

I suspect a lot of the meaningful way that D2 maintained peoples' interest so intently was that you always are alternating between more carefully pushing some harder content and then retreating back and blitzing 50 rhadamants or pindleskins or whatever for some upgrades and there were always some different options for how to get various upgrades. That said, once the game hit the point where you're just trying to get a chance at a better roll on some extremely rare unique, yeah that's dumb, but that's also the sign it's time to play a new build or whatever.

Also I really don't know how you upgrade D2s item system without it seemingly extremely derivative of POE. GGG intentionally designed their item system to be extremely similar to D2 except with a bit more of an eye about having non-unique items end up at a comparable strength or value as unique items. They had essentially the same concern with D2s loot and addressed it in a way that basically has kept that balance well for a long time.

I'll shutup now, I have a lot of thoughts about D2 because it's one of the deeper games I've played. It somehow manages to be both a simple dungeon crawler that a 10 year old can figure out how to play, while also being a game with a huge amount of depth and complexity that I am still learning new things about.

Yeah, it's always a fun game, and my copy travels with me from computer to computer always (though with PlugY and a minor dropmod (halfs the no-drop chances so areas tend to be more likely to drop at their natural level, because drat, I couldn't live without a shared stash and I don't want to forevergrind)

soscannonballs
Dec 6, 2007

I don't want modern blizzard doing any kind of balance changes, they would probably end up making Teleport a 6s cooldown or something. Just make the game look nicer and let modders keep tinkering with stuff so people can play mods with changes that appeal to them.

Fried Watermelon
Dec 29, 2008


Remaster predictions:

No more single player offline
Access to original D2 game is removed
No more Open Battle.Net
Optional remastered graphics for purchase - done by the team who did WC3 Remaster
Real Money Auction Hall - need to convert money to blizz bucks first then purchase diablo dollars - transaction fees on currency conversion and purchasing items, no withdrawing

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

Fried Watermelon posted:

Remaster predictions:

No more single player offline
Access to original D2 game is removed
No more Open Battle.Net

Oh, definitely.

Im_Special
Jan 2, 2011

Look At This!!! WOW!
It's F*cking Nothing.
Install size increase from 1.92GB to 80GB

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

Videos breaking due to still running Bink.

..Does the WC3R videos still use Bink?

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 16 hours!

Fried Watermelon posted:

Remaster predictions:

No more single player offline
Access to original D2 game is removed
No more Open Battle.Net
Optional remastered graphics for purchase - done by the team who did WC3 Remaster
Real Money Auction Hall - need to convert money to blizz bucks first then purchase diablo dollars - transaction fees on currency conversion and purchasing items, no withdrawing

They already did all this, that was diablo 3

e: phone post bugged tf out

Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 22:26 on May 20, 2020

Zogo
Jul 29, 2003

I'd like go to past level 99 i.e. I want ~80-100 skeletons. I need skeletons that can last in PvP.

Fried Watermelon posted:

Remaster predictions:

Access to original D2 game is removed
No more Open Battle.Net

Grounds for a class-action lawsuit.

Tubgoat
Jun 30, 2013

by sebmojo

Zogo posted:

Grounds for a class-action lawsuit.
Too bad not, otherwise they'd've been ruined by lawsuits over WC3.

Arzachel
May 12, 2012

soscannonballs posted:

I don't want modern blizzard doing any kind of balance changes, they would probably end up making Teleport a 6s cooldown or something. Just make the game look nicer and let modders keep tinkering with stuff so people can play mods with changes that appeal to them.

Actual mod support would be extremely cool but Blizzard would saddle anything like that with the same EULA restrictions as SC2 and WC3 Reforged so :rip:

cigaw
Sep 13, 2012
Looks like there's a ladder reset in June. And I was just hitting my stride with my sorc lol.

wet_goods
Jun 21, 2004

I'M BAAD!

cigaw posted:

Looks like there's a ladder reset in June. And I was just hitting my stride with my sorc lol.

I jumped on to play d2 for the first time in like 15 years last week and I land at the end of a 5 year ladder, cool

wet_goods fucked around with this message at 16:22 on May 24, 2020

Laslow
Jul 18, 2007

wet_goods posted:

I jumped on to play d2 for the first time in like 15 years last week and I land at the end of a 5 year ladder, cool
Happens to me every time.

But I don’t mind getting a little practice in and some extra time to figure out how to configure a bot since I always forget between seasons.

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 16 hours!
i used to prefer online, but last time I played a bunch of D2 was singleplayer and using plugy for the qol and added stash space and i don't think I could ever play online again. The game works really well self-found and the progress feels a lot more tangible.

tbf though, i do really, really hate muling and will do anything to avoid it.

wet_goods
Jun 21, 2004

I'M BAAD!

Herstory Begins Now posted:

i used to prefer online, but last time I played a bunch of D2 was singleplayer and using plugy for the qol and added stash space and i don't think I could ever play online again. The game works really well self-found and the progress feels a lot more tangible.

tbf though, i do really, really hate muling and will do anything to avoid it.

Yeah I have this weird brain tick that says if I didn't earn it on ladder it's not "real". I almost never play with randos online and rarely trade, and I don't bot. Maybe if I can get over that mental hurdle I can have a better time offline not cheating.

Khorne
May 1, 2002

wet_goods posted:

Yeah I have this weird brain tick that says if I didn't earn it on ladder it's not "real". I almost never play with randos online and rarely trade, and I don't bot. Maybe if I can get over that mental hurdle I can have a better time offline not cheating.

Herstory Begins Now posted:

i used to prefer online, but last time I played a bunch of D2 was singleplayer and using plugy for the qol and added stash space and i don't think I could ever play online again. The game works really well self-found and the progress feels a lot more tangible.

tbf though, i do really, really hate muling and will do anything to avoid it.
My solution to this is slashdiablo and other pservers. No botting, you can play with other people if you want, and you're still playing online and competing with others but frequently in a single player way if you want.

Otherwise, I'd play offline. Bnet is kinda awkward unless you want to bot or play with bots or rmt I guess if that's still a thing.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 05:00 on May 25, 2020

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Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 16 hours!
I get like 100 ping minimum to slash diablo or I would've played a ton of it. I need to try path of diablo at some point though, hopefully i can get some non-miserable latency

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