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radmonger posted:The Tories have been lurching continually to the right since at least 2014, so how is that Starmer’s fault specifically? If Starmer is squatting on the role of Opposition Leader he has a wider sphere of culpability than 'is it his fault specifically' because his inaction also neuters other effective opposition. You're making a fake point.
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May 21, 2020 00:39
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Loonytoad Quack posted:Just found out my Great Aunt died of Covid-19 on Monday Condolences, friend.
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May 21, 2020 00:41
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baby im in this thread and ready wo win elections. Call me....the triangulator
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May 21, 2020 01:18
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Saros posted:If money's that hard up it sounds like something the ukmt solidarity fund could help with. Jaeluni Asjil posted:I was wondering that. Otherwise a rush of fudge orders (with no need to send the fudge)? Ed: but that might mess up accounts/tax. I’m not going to request help from the Solidarity Fund- there are others whose need is a lot greater than mine, and I’d not feel comfortable benefiting to their loss. However if people would like to order fudge then that will be a massive help. Vets bills came to nearly 280 quid, and if I can cover that this month in sales then I hereby vow the following: A. To spam the thread with cat pictures every day throughout the month of June B. Every order will contain a thank-you note from my furry boys.
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May 21, 2020 01:38
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https://twitter.com/PrivateEyeNews/status/1263120669551845378?s=19
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May 21, 2020 02:50
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It's a beautiful sunny morning at least.
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May 21, 2020 06:01
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Camrath posted:I’m not going to request help from the Solidarity Fund- there are others whose need is a lot greater than mine, and I’d not feel comfortable benefiting to their loss. I'm not involved with the fund except as a thread reader and occasional donater but the info they've posted has consistently shown that they could very much handle that kind of payout (Assuming they agreed to it ofc.) without it remotely impacting their ability to help other people. Last I saw requests could increase, like, fivefold and still leave the fund with a plentiful cushion. Also keep in mind that's why they have a committee to review these things and discuss them - if the fund's funds are tight and they get other requests for help then their express purpose in the role is to figure out how to handle that. If you judge you can do without that's of course entirely fair and your business, but I wouldn't want to see a fellow goon going through hard times when they don't need to because they fear their need is not deserving or serious enough. In any event I am glad kitty got seen by the vet and I sincerely hope that your furry boys recover fully and do well! They do like to give us scares, wee buggers!
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May 21, 2020 06:47
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Camrath posted:Vets bills came to nearly 280 quid, and if I can cover that this month in sales then I hereby vow the following: Sold! I've been meaning to try the fudge anyway, how do i order it
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May 21, 2020 06:52
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Ms Adequate posted:I'm not involved with the fund except as a thread reader and occasional donater but the info they've posted has consistently shown that they could very much handle that kind of payout (Assuming they agreed to it ofc.) without it remotely impacting their ability to help other people. Last I saw requests could increase, like, fivefold and still leave the fund with a plentiful cushion. Also keep in mind that's why they have a committee to review these things and discuss them - if the fund's funds are tight and they get other requests for help then their express purpose in the role is to figure out how to handle that. If you judge you can do without that's of course entirely fair and your business, but I wouldn't want to see a fellow goon going through hard times when they don't need to because they fear their need is not deserving or serious enough. Am a committee member and I can confirm that what Ms Adequate says is correct, this goes for all goons not just Camrath, but if you are struggling then please consider asking for help. The current balance is sitting around £3000 (I'll update with exact figure later) and we would much much rather that be helping goons than sat in a bank making capitalists rich.
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May 21, 2020 08:06
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Camrath posted:I’m not going to request help from the Solidarity Fund- there are others whose need is a lot greater than mine, and I’d not feel comfortable benefiting to their loss. Have you tried making sugar free fudge? I ordered it for my mum (she loved the orange chocolate fudge, all thumbs up for that one) but she is diabetic and is trying to restrict her sugar intake as much as possible.
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May 21, 2020 08:44
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Sold! Camrath posted:Fudge related post follows
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May 21, 2020 08:46
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Loonytoad Quack posted:Just found out my Great Aunt died of Covid-19 on Monday My gran died a few weeks ago from covid she caught in her care home. Several residents were just terfed straight back there from hospital in the weeks prior - and my gran looked like she was on the mend after two days so they were actually preparing to take her back as well. As far as I'm concerned she was murdered. It's a horrible feeling to actually know and be close to someone who's died directly as a result of the Tories. I know it won't stop anyone in my family voting for them though and I've pre-emptively decided not to open that particular can of worms.
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May 21, 2020 08:50
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gently caress how did I miss this. Rum and raisin AND apple and cinnamon AND chocolate orange welp there goes the diet
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May 21, 2020 08:50
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Definitely order fudge, it tastes fantastic.
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May 21, 2020 08:52
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I've said this before but i feel like i'm in some kind of hosed up alternate reality where i prefer to switch over to GMB and Piers morgan tearing into the Government and Bojo every morning about the latest moral outrage. Even with his cartoonish reactions and arrogant persona, he's a drat sight better than the dripping fart that's the BBC fellating the government and reporting of twee stories. Did the Tories exclude him from a party or something? Like this morning: GMB: Segment aggressively tearing into conservative politicians for their hypocrisy over charging international health workers more money on top of their taxes BBC: Segment on virtual magic tricks because a girls dad (a magician) died of Covid and now a teacher dressing up as pikachu and a bumblebee online to make school things more interesting. It basically feels like Newsround for adults.
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May 21, 2020 08:57
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It's a state broadcaster, its function is to support the government and placate the populace. Propaganda isn't just for wartime.
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May 21, 2020 09:05
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Kin posted:I've said this before but i feel like i'm in some kind of hosed up alternate reality where i prefer to switch over to GMB and Piers morgan tearing into the Government and Bojo every morning about the latest moral outrage. I think there is some beef from back when Piers was the editor of the Mirror and Boris was editing the Spectator. Also worth remembering that for all his awful poo poo Piers Morgan has also historically had some good opinions, like his opposition to the Iraq War. Didn't he get fired from the Mirror because he refused to apologies to the army after accusing a bunch of soldiers or torturing Iraqi prisoners? In conclusion Piers Morgan is a land of contrasts.
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May 21, 2020 09:05
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OwlFancier posted:I don't even know why I bother speaking to him, I have him on ignore but it's like a loving scab I can't stop picking. This is IMO not comradely. Ronya speaketh like a rather pedantic academic and understandeth like a rather pedantic academic, but he is also clearly concerned with practical measures for making the world a better and fairer place for everyone born into it instead of narrowly pursuing his personal or tribal interest and is, therefore, of the left. I find him a useful perspective in this thread and a Good Poster. I may of course be biased because IIRC he is in Malaysia and so, like me, exposed to the dominant perspective in Asia right now, which is about a billion miles away from this thread. Anyway this thread is, I think, a safe space for anyone who isn’t a fascist/ JAQoff. Ronya is neither.
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May 21, 2020 09:07
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I think the BBC has gone too far this time though when even my ma is pissed off that she can't find the death statistics anywhere on their website. She lit candles for Maddie
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May 21, 2020 09:09
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a pipe smoking dog posted:
Nah, he got sacked for putting clearly fake pictures claiming to show British troops torturing Iraqi prisoners on the front page of The Mirror without doing any due diligence.
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May 21, 2020 09:11
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a pipe smoking dog posted:I think there is some beef from back when Piers was the editor of the Mirror and Boris was editing the Spectator. He printed fake photos of british soldiers abusing iraqi prisoners.
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May 21, 2020 09:11
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Beefeater1980 posted:This is IMO not comradely. Ronya speaketh like a rather pedantic academic and understandeth like a rather pedantic academic, but he is also clearly concerned with practical measures for making the world a better and fairer place for everyone born into it instead of narrowly pursuing his personal or tribal interest and is, therefore, of the left. I find him a useful perspective in this thread and a Good Poster. I can't say I can see what would lead you to think any of that but I can go back to keeping my misgivings on the subject to myself.
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May 21, 2020 09:11
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I liked ronya when he briefly posted in the form of Simpsons memes.
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May 21, 2020 09:18
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Prince John posted:That only works as an argument if the Tories are lurching right out of a rational hunt for electoral success, rather than a bunch of people intent on pursuing these policies for personal economic gain or ideological purity. but if triangulation towards a notional middle ground of politics is inherently necessary to win anything then the Tories lurching ever rightwards should surely lead to them doing worse as "moderate voters" are put off by them being a bunch of brexiteer fascists? and the lib Dems and the cuktigs wouldn't have been completely wiped out as they squatted in the centre with "please vote for us, we don't really believe in anything apart from fbpe"? also the Labour party should have done worse in 2017 than 2015 because the platform was less moderate? my feeling is that the Tories at least don't really need to triangulate anymore because brexit has completed the process of chudifying large parts of the electorate and now labour are communist enemies of grate britan and you'll never reason a lot of people out of that, no matter how moderate you try and appear. like, the thing where trump will never go below ~40% because his followers are a death cult seems the same to me as whatever absurd proportion of people think bojo is doing a great job of handling the pandemic despite all evidence to the contrary, people completely devoid of any critical faculties who will keep voting for the fash no matter what I think there probably are a fair number of people who voted Tory or lib dem last time who could be persuaded to vote for Keir starmer because he's less terrifying to their respectable middle class sensibilities than the guy on the chairman Mao style bicycle, especially if some of the policies that were more alarming to them are neutered, but I'm not convinced they're a significant number compared to the people who are now convinced that the Labour party is a terrorist conspiracy against the country I also don't think moving further right on issues like immigration, housing, the economy will help win enough votes from people like the managers at my work to make up for the loss of enthusiasm amongst other labour voters or particularly a loss of enthusiasm amongst activists like I can't see myself being particularly keen on wasting more of my life door knocking and leafleting in 2025 to win some marginally less racist controls on immigration, for example, even if on a logical level I would obviously prefer a poo poo labour platform to any Tory one tl;dr I don't think that there's a way to triangulate policy positions that you win over enough "moderates" who voted Tory because they were scared of the jam man to win an election, but who knows, even if you are prepared to adopt some poo poo policies to do it
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May 21, 2020 09:39
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Also we are currently living in the long term effects of what happens when you elect a labour government that tries to appeal to tories. Triangulation is just a fancy word for "I have lovely politics and I want to pretend I don't"
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May 21, 2020 09:42
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Beefeater1980 posted:
In an absolute nutshell, what’s the difference? Being taken more seriously by the public?
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May 21, 2020 09:46
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Beefeater1980 posted:This is IMO not comradely. Ronya speaketh like a rather pedantic academic and understandeth like a rather pedantic academic, but he is also clearly concerned with practical measures for making the world a better and fairer place for everyone born into it instead of narrowly pursuing his personal or tribal interest and is, therefore, of the left. I find him a useful perspective in this thread and a Good Poster. This is very well put (and with a lot less swearing than I'd have used). Ronya might need a copy-editor, but the vampire-seeing-sunlight reaction of certain posters to them is just ridiculous (especially when they let certain Legitimate Concerns posters just slide right by).
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May 21, 2020 09:57
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What a oval office https://twitter.com/NewstalkFM/status/1263374947428306946?s=19
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May 21, 2020 10:12
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Jose posted:What a oval office He's right. Just probably not for the reasons he meant
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May 21, 2020 10:17
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Jose posted:What a oval office It's not fair or sustainable, but not in the way that he thinks.
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May 21, 2020 10:17
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Kin posted:I've said this before but i feel like i'm in some kind of hosed up alternate reality where i prefer to switch over to GMB and Piers morgan tearing into the Government and Bojo every morning about the latest moral outrage. From what I've seen (not much I have to admit) Newsround seems more socially conscious and more informative than grown ups BBC news.
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May 21, 2020 10:29
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Jose posted:What a oval office Yeah he has been banging this drum for some time. https://www.thejournal.ie/wage-subsidyleo-varadkar-5083689-Apr2020/ Like he’s very clearly got the Tory* thing of “someone, somewhere might be getting something that I don’t think they deserve.” So far they have tried to do the whole “we can’t afford to keep doing this. We should stop.” But I don’t think that the Irish people are willing to go for it. We aren’t leaning heavily into “we must open the economy to make sure numbers go up.” Even though they are trying it. *= Which makes sense. He did try running a program about how Ireland should be for the people who get up early, and not the scroungers. He also has that West-Brit bootlicker thing going on, as came up during the whole “Commemorating the RIC/DC/Black and Tans thing.”
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May 21, 2020 10:29
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Camrath posted:I’m not going to request help from the Solidarity Fund- there are others whose need is a lot greater than mine, and I’d not feel comfortable benefiting to their loss. How is puss? What did the vet say was wrong?
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May 21, 2020 10:31
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XMNN posted:but if triangulation towards a notional middle ground of politics is inherently necessary to win anything then the Tories lurching ever rightwards should surely lead to them doing worse as "moderate voters" are put off by them being a bunch of brexiteer fascists? and the lib Dems and the cuktigs wouldn't have been completely wiped out as they squatted in the centre with "please vote for us, we don't really believe in anything apart from fbpe"? it was more moderate - Miliband in 2015 pledged less austerity than Corbyn accepted as an already-passed done deal (the Welfare Reform and Work Act 2016 was only planned when Miliband went to the polls), and Miliband of course did not pledge to end free movement (nor did he really need to in 2015 pre-referendum of course). As far as the critical issue of the election went - immigration immigration immigration - Labour circa 2017 was actually much more hostile than Labour circa 2015, which would not (and could not) have countenanced ending free movement of course rhetorically Corbyn set out to challenge the framing a great deal more, but if framing and not substance is what counts, then the Conservatives have eventually likewise found the key by Johnson claiming all the credit for planned spending increases and merely not pitching the framing of budgetary caution ronya fucked around with this message at 10:42 on May 21, 2020 |
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May 21, 2020 10:36
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The big question, which nobody seemed to want to have a serious discussion about on the electoral stage, was whether free movement is a socially positive form or immigration, or whether it's just a way for capital to move workers around who are less likely to be aware of their rights and can't vote locally. The 2019 Corbyn attempt to square that circle, to end free movement but allow any worker to register to vote, predictably ended up fueling far right nonsense about the foreigns undermining are democracy than it did being honestly communicated to the electorate about why this would benefit all workers.
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May 21, 2020 10:44
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XMNN posted:but if triangulation towards a notional middle ground of politics is inherently necessary to win anything then the Tories lurching ever rightwards should surely lead to them doing worse as "moderate voters" are put off by them being a bunch of brexiteer fascists? and the lib Dems and the cuktigs wouldn't have been completely wiped out as they squatted in the centre with "please vote for us, we don't really believe in anything apart from fbpe"? It's important to remember that ronya thinks Vladimir Lenin & Mao Zedong were essentially neoliberals whose rhetoric was stronger than their policies. We're all neoliberals, especially those among us who insist we aren't. It's a world view.
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May 21, 2020 10:45
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The Question IRL posted:*= Which makes sense. He did try running a program about how Ireland should be for the people who get up early, and not the scroungers. Ah yes, getting up early, that famously non-terrible thing. Signed, a night person
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May 21, 2020 10:45
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ronya is a good poster
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May 21, 2020 10:58
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Guavanaut posted:The big question, which nobody seemed to want to have a serious discussion about on the electoral stage, was whether free movement is a socially positive form or immigration, or whether it's just a way for capital to move workers around who are less likely to be aware of their rights and can't vote locally. the UK might get a discussion about that in short order... the new points-based system is very generous on highly qualified English-speakers, of that dread politically-conscious middle-class professional sort, and of course people from the British Commonwealth are already entitled to vote (and run!) in UK elections I suspect many Conservative voters are not quite aware of the sharp liberalisation of their party on the question of immigration targets ronya fucked around with this message at 11:08 on May 21, 2020 |
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May 21, 2020 11:00
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Working from home = Work shy skiver https://twitter.com/HenrySmithUK/status/1263394101002674176
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