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Dramatika posted:So looking at this, I should probably do Death of the Outsider and then maybe Bioshock 2? Is Mankind Divided worth a go if I really didn't care for Human Revolution? Are there other games I should look into? You might like The Darkness. It's more supernatural action heavy but fits that niche of the roam and explore area levels connected to a hub in an FPS.
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May 23, 2020 18:34
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Rinkles posted:lol
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May 23, 2020 19:33
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Serephina posted:Infinite was universally reviled, anyone defending it is usually just there to stir the pot. The only unironic blanket praise you'll see of it is from the major review sites shilling for it, which for a lot of people was finally the wake up call about what those sites are. I want to say I thought bioshock infinite was amazing. I was pretty stoned when I played it though.
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May 23, 2020 19:50
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Dramatika posted:Deus Ex (original) - played back in the day, was bad at it, may be worth revisiting From my experience: Deus Ex: slap one of the most common mods that "fix" or at least have some QoL improvements, it's a good game and I'm not a diehard fan but enjoyed a playthrough I did some years ago. The first mission is the big stinker and that put me off the game for years. For more and better advice than mine come to the The Early FPS Megathread - lol at not owning several retail versions of doom2.wad System Shock: If you really really want to try it, go with the enhanced edition. For me it's too rough to enjoy nowadays. System Shock 2: slap a mod/fix whatever you can get and enjoy one of the best games I've played but I sadly only discovered a few years ago. Deus Ex: Human Revolution. At this point you should have the Director's Cut that fixed some of the issues with the boss fights that even in the original release were extremely easy if you had some points on combat (I did and had no issues compared to other players). In my opinion is a great game and worth giving a single playthrough at least. Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. Is still on my to-play list. So can't say a thing about it really. Common opinions is that is decent but feels unfinished because they wanted to do a trilogy. Bioshock: if you played it on release, remastered version doesn't fix a thing so you better go with Bioshock 2: the best of all three in my opinion combat-wise. The DLC (included in the remastered version) is good. Bioshock Infinite: I played it once, kinda liked it but aside from the start of the game that looked really nice the rest was a letdown. The DLC was a mixed bag for me. Dishonored: Love it, played through it twice (low chaos and then PUT THE PEDAL TO THE METAL). Absolutely amazing and the DLC is drat good too. Dishonored 2 and Death of the Outsider: on backlog, really want to sit down and play them. Thief: No advice from me but again, pay a visit to The Early FPS Megathread - lol at not owning several retail versions of doom2.wad, plenty of good advice there to play them. Thief 2014 is generally considered bad. Oh, not a 0451 game but if you like Arkane games, and you didn't play it, give Dark Messiah of Might & Magic a go. Guillermus fucked around with this message at 19:56 on May 23, 2020 |
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May 23, 2020 19:54
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Dramatika posted:
I think your copy of Bioshock 2 should come with Minerva's Den, that's a great short 0451 package, boiled down to the essentials. If you enjoy the gameplay of that, you can play the main game too. Death of the Outsider is also absolutely worth playing. The final level has a super-cool and super-creepy atmosphere and it's got a fantastic bank heist mission. I only played the original Thief games back in the late 00's, sometime in between Bioshock and DXHR. How long ago was it that you tried playing them? Thief plays basically like non-lethal powerless Dishonored. I had a great time with these games, but you shouldn't force yourself to play them if they don't click for you.
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May 23, 2020 20:37
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Deus Ex: Invisible War is probably worth a playthrough after Human Revolution and Mankind Divided. It's aged worse than the original Deus Ex though. edit: Ultima Underworld and Ultima Underworld 2 might be worth a spin if you wanna see the proto-immersive sim in it's primordial ooze? Lord Lambeth fucked around with this message at 20:49 on May 23, 2020 |
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May 23, 2020 20:44
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Bloodlines is best…lines
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May 23, 2020 21:11
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Rinkles posted:lol holy poo poo  I had some kind of amazing brain catastrophe and thought this was the early FPS megathread
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May 23, 2020 21:16
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I'll probably do Death of the Outsider, and then look at the original Deux Ex. I tried Thief 5 years ago or so? It was just too dated for me - I remember it was amazing at the time, but Dishonored did most of the same stuff in a modern package. What mods are recommended for a mostly vanilla Deus Ex first play thru? Just looking for graphics updates I think.
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May 23, 2020 22:22
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Dramatika posted:I'll probably do Death of the Outsider, and then look at the original Deux Ex. I tried Thief 5 years ago or so? It was just too dated for me - I remember it was amazing at the time, but Dishonored did most of the same stuff in a modern package. The Deus Ex thread might be useful. Thread with the mods. Mod with the mods.
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May 23, 2020 22:29
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SCheeseman posted:I don't think it has the key combination, but it is an immersive sim. I admittedly hold a pretty broad definition of the genre, I think Zelda BOTW and Bethesda's RPGs count too, but Alien Isolation is pretty obviously cut from the Looking Glass mold. It's more of an immersive sim in spirit than the Deus Ex prequels at least. You're in good company on this one- Warren Spector mentioned in an interview that he thinks Bethesda's games are in an immersive sim-adjacent space. It's an interesting take on the idea- Looking Glass/Spector have always said 'inch wide, mile deep,' and talked about making a game that's very dense but takes place on a single city block. Bethesda's games seem to be the opposite of that one the face of things, very wide, but there is always a lot of interesting stuff to interact with which makes for rich environments, and there's a big emphasis on game systems instead of scripted setpieces. Anyway long story short I agree about Alien Isolation. It might not be a strict 0451 game but it certainly shares a lot of the same design sensibilities, with environments full of interesting ways to interact with them, layered gameplay systems, etc. Also the level design is top-shelf stuff.
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May 23, 2020 23:08
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I played this game at launch, up till I encountered the nightmare for the first time, but my pc crashed and I never started the game up again after that. Now I'm playing the game again, and I'm having a blast! It's really nice to kinda have an idea of where stuff is but no complete recollection. I know there's mimics around -somewhere- in an area, but I keep getting surprised. Also, I just entered the Hardware lab for the first time in this run and I already have a +3 upgraded damage shotgun and level 2 combat focus. I two-shot kill phantoms. I hovered up all the poo poo in the lobby to recycle, and I'm basically full on shotgun ammo. I didn't remember being able to be so powerful so quick in the game! I recall creeping around slowly and trying to avoid phantoms up until psychotronics basically, after which I had a ton of neuromods and some typhon powers. Now I just run up to stuff and blast it in the face. 
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May 23, 2020 23:38
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Mankind Divided feels like nothing happened not only because it’s the middle game of a trilogy but also it feels like the first game of a new trilogy without an ending.
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May 23, 2020 23:52
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Is there going to be a third? I have doubt.
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May 24, 2020 07:03
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Bogart posted:Is there going to be a third? I have doubt. pop quiz! is this about : a. Prey b. Bioshock c. System Shock d. Dishonored e. this planned Deus Ex trilogy answer: its all of them! third games are cursed
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May 24, 2020 07:08
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I was under the impression that bioshock: infinite was pretty successful even if the story is a sequence of wet farts
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May 24, 2020 07:19
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Lord Lambeth posted:I was under the impression that bioshock: infinite was pretty successful even if the story is a sequence of wet farts bioshock infinite marks the moment where the majority of people started to realize that maybe AAA games aren't inherently interesting and worth playing just because they're Big
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May 24, 2020 07:25
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Lord Lambeth posted:I was under the impression that bioshock: infinite was pretty successful even if the story is a sequence of wet farts I mean it killed Irrational and sent Ken Levine into a black hole from which he still has not reappeared from, I dunno how successful that is
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May 24, 2020 07:40
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flatluigi posted:bioshock infinite marks the moment where the majority of people started to realize that maybe AAA games aren't inherently interesting and worth playing just because they're Big It hit at the perfect storm of politics and games was intersecting in culture and suddenly a game where you get a choice whether or not to be an active participant in gross 1800s style racism was wildly inappropriate. The broke brain "maybe both sides are bad" story line also aged as well as milk when you had an oppressed minority class rising up and suddenly deciding they need to start butchering white children as well for reasons and you the player have to stop them. It was a big spectacle tent pole game too, but it had a main campaign that was all flash and no substance and was a weekend or two of playing, and a garbage multiplayer mode that no one cared about. The DLC was highly praised but I think way fewer people bought it then they expected and the planned series died by episode 2.
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May 24, 2020 08:00
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people hated ep 2 of burial at sea
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May 24, 2020 08:13
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pentyne posted:It hit at the perfect storm of politics and games was intersecting in culture and suddenly a game where you get a choice whether or not to be an active participant in gross 1800s style racism was wildly inappropriate. The broke brain "maybe both sides are bad" story line also aged as well as milk when you had an oppressed minority class rising up and suddenly deciding they need to start butchering white children as well for reasons and you the player have to stop them. it also went off the rails during the last third, the reason the political aspects of the story were so poorly executed (among other reasons, there's definitely a bunch) is because the story was never about those aspects, it was about their dumb parallel worlds bullshit. That whole game disappears up its own rear end. and the DLC was basically Ken Levine's giant middle finger to the people who made Bioshock 2, it doesn't just ignore that game but seemingly goes out of its way to disagree with the game in some aspects.
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May 24, 2020 09:38
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flatluigi posted:bioshock infinite marks the moment where the majority of people started to realize that maybe AAA games aren't inherently interesting and worth playing just because they're Big It sold 11 million units, has a 93% Metacritic for the 360 version (which is likely how most people played it) and to this day most people I've talked to outside of insular communities like this remember it fondly. You can't just make your opinion "the majority" by retroactively willing it to be. People liked that game and bought it.
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May 24, 2020 16:03
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i forgot that the only way to judge the quality of an AAA game is by how much money it makes, sorry
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May 24, 2020 16:07
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Selling a lot is a good indicator that a sequel is likely, even a quick turnaround one. However, the studio shuttering entirely is usually a bad sign. Also Infinite took 5 years of 200 people to make. It didn't feel as long to players because of Bioshock 2 but that's a very long, very expensive dev time. Most games that have long drawn out dev cycles imply the game went over budget and probably had to change dramatically at some point in the middle of development. There's some evidence that Infinite dealt with that. There are very few studios that can produce the resulting game quality and sales to justify incredibly long dev cycles with large teams, and that's going to run into some genre issues as well.
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May 24, 2020 16:19
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What I meant from my post is that socially it's at about the point in time where criticism started to peak and people were more willing to give a game a lot of poo poo for things it pulls in general. Yeah, despite its extremely clumsy and offensive attempts at social commentary that rival modern games like Detroit: Become Human it was still an AAA game; people bought and played it because it was big and flashy and to this day a big chunk of gamers don't really care to think deeply about poo poo like that. But still in hindsight it didn't do very much interesting worth trying to forgive the racism for, and the fact that People Bought The Game really shouldn't be an inherent sign of quality just like how a game having lots of marketing, name recognition, and a AAA budget isn't.
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May 24, 2020 16:40
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flatluigi posted:i forgot that the only way to judge the quality of an AAA game is by how much money it makes, sorry I don't think Infinite was cursed like DC murderverse suggested. Especially when all other examples he gave don't have third games or are struggling to make them(system shock 3!) DC Murderverse posted:I mean it killed Irrational and sent Ken Levine into a black hole from which he still has not reappeared from, I dunno how successful that is Ken Levine is still around and making things, Infinite just burned him the hell out
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May 24, 2020 17:13
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DC Murderverse posted:it also went off the rails during the last third, the reason the political aspects of the story were so poorly executed (among other reasons, there's definitely a bunch) is because the story was never about those aspects, it was about their dumb parallel worlds bullshit. That whole game disappears up its own rear end. My recollection is that Ken Levine is a very anti-commentary kind of person. They used objectivism in Bioshock 1 out of pure aesthetics. It wasn't meant to actually be commentary on objectivism and he was unimpressed people interpreted it that way. They walked back some seemingly-anti religious stuff in infinite before release from memory too. I imagine the child-killing revolutionaries were part of the same attempt to say nothing.
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May 24, 2020 17:28
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E3 prerelease demo Infinite was notable for completely lacking the religious / prophet aspects that the final release had. Comstock appeared to be an out-and-out American nationalist / fascist, nary a bible or even the stars and bars in sight. I think that would've been a lot more interesting than what we got. IIRC a lot of turmoil at Irrational happened prior to release, much as gamers love to credit their own power and influence. It was a rocky development and the game changed quite a bit. Some director-level folks quit in the middle of it. There's another Bioshock game currently in some stage of development, probably for the next console cycle. Chris Avellone has publicly stated he's working on it, speaking of Prey.
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May 24, 2020 17:38
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Basic Chunnel posted:
I'll play the next bioshock to see how far up it's own arse it goes this time. Infinite got fairly deep, imo.
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May 24, 2020 18:05
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I'm hoping that the next thread title will be 'Bioshock 4 - jesus christ they called the 2nd Prey "Bioshock 4". loving buy this!'
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May 24, 2020 18:13
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Dramatika posted:I'm hoping that the next thread title will be 'Bioshock 4 - jesus christ they called the 2nd Prey "Bioshock 4". loving buy this!' Just ask a friendly mod when it launches... I got a 10k hour probe that way! 
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May 24, 2020 18:23
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My biggest problem with Infinite was the boring arenas where enemies jump out of every corner and all the other NPC's disappear. The weak take on politics didn't help. What's this about another Bioshock being in development? I hope it's doing better than System Shock 3. Edit: https://www.pcgamer.com/bioshock-4-release-date-everything-we-know/ Rinkles posted:people hated ep 2 of burial at sea That DLC was so bad and downright stupid, I like to pretend I've never played it. MJBuddy posted:Most games that have long drawn out dev cycles imply the game went over budget and probably had to change dramatically at some point in the middle of development. There's some evidence that Infinite dealt with that. Yeah, early game demos were completely different to the final product, iirc. GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:I'll play the next bioshock to see how far up it's own arse it goes this time. Infinite got fairly deep, imo. ... how deep would you say? itry fucked around with this message at 18:53 on May 24, 2020 |
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May 24, 2020 18:45
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Bioshock infinite was amazing.
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May 24, 2020 19:14
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Basic Chunnel posted:
Shawn Elliott, who was a Level Designer for Bioshock Infinite and moved to Arkane Austin to become a level designer on Prey is the Lead Designer on the new Bioshock (per his Twitter).
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May 24, 2020 19:38
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itry posted:... how deep would you say? You could see its tonsils.
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May 24, 2020 19:43
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Tenzarin posted:Bioshock infinite was amazing. Amazing...ly bad!!!
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May 24, 2020 20:06
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itry posted:... how deep would you say? Way too deep for most of us, but for Ken Levine.. just getting warmed up.
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May 24, 2020 20:10
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I've heard Death Loop is in development hell 
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May 24, 2020 21:13
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Mike the TV posted:I've heard Death Loop is in development hell We've only seen the one trailer I think and no gameplay. I'd like to assume it's more of a roguelike than a immersive sim given the setup and mooncrash showing a clear interest in the genre. edit: I would be more concerned about Ghostwire: Tokyo given the creative director up and left. Lord Lambeth fucked around with this message at 21:39 on May 24, 2020 |
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May 24, 2020 21:35
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:I'll play the next bioshock to see how far up it's own arse it goes this time. Infinite got fairly deep, imo. honestly the "up it's own rear end" thing came mostly from Levine/Irrational, Bioshock 2 had almost the opposite problem, where it did a little too much retreading of the previous game and didn't have enough new stuff, and there are gonna be way more BS2 people than BS1/BSI people working on this new one, considering the new studio is basically living in the corpse of 2K Marin and has a bunch of 2K Australia people to boot (the people behind Minerva's Den). Lord Lambeth posted:I don't think Infinite was cursed like DC murderverse suggested. Especially when all other examples he gave don't have third games or are struggling to make them(system shock 3!) I dunno, "burned out and hasn't even announced a project in the 7 years since Infinite's release" sound pretty cursed to me... itry posted:My biggest problem with Infinite was the boring arenas where enemies jump out of every corner and all the other NPC's disappear. The weak take on politics didn't help. yuuup. this video's a real good overview of what changed (that 2010 demo in particular is very different from the final product) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJV5ReOSjF0 DC Murderverse fucked around with this message at 21:53 on May 24, 2020 |
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May 24, 2020 21:49
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