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Femtosecond posted:Demand will be low. Just a two person household really. Gas or electric? We have a tankless gas and no issues keeping up with demand. It can take 30 seconds for the shower to get warm, if that bothers you. I've heard electric isn't as good for tankless, bit don't know if that is actually true.
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May 17, 2020 13:34
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MrLogan posted:Gas or electric? We have a tankless gas and no issues keeping up with demand. It can take 30 seconds for the shower to get warm, if that bothers you. I've heard electric isn't as good for tankless, bit don't know if that is actually true. It's not that it isn't as good from a "making hot water" standpoint, it's that they have such high peak draw that most homes would need a new service entrance and a panel replacement to run one.
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May 17, 2020 14:25
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We have a 22-year-old tank heater so we will also need a replacement soon. The thing that made us stop considering a tankless heater once and for all was the time when the power went out while my husband was in the shower. I’ve come to appreciate the profound simplicity of a gas water heater with a pilot light for a brain and zero dependency on electricity. We are also considering an indirect water heater, which runs off the main boiler instead of its own fuel source and has a much longer life span and fewer moving parts than a conventional gas water heater.
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May 17, 2020 16:22
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Queen Victorian posted:
Yeah. Water heaters are one of those things that's it's nice to just have something rock solid reliable. Basic electric and gas models are that. The tankless models will never pay back anyway from an efficiency perspective, so their only advantage is the promise of unlimited hot water. I mean, I have a complex heat pump water heater, but that's because they offer significantly reduced operating cost over a basic electric, and I don't have the gas option. They also have elements, so if the heat pump dies, it can just be a dumb electric model too.
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May 18, 2020 00:29
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Tankless are more about being environmentally conscious than efficiency savings, I think
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May 18, 2020 03:19
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All you plebs with your "water heaters" and I'm sitting over here with my oil-fired Energy Kinetics System 2000 boiler. If my house wasn't 150 years old and leaked like a sieve, can you imagine how efficient my heating costs would be with a name like that?
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May 18, 2020 12:34
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QuarkJets posted:Tankless are more about being environmentally conscious than efficiency savings, I think I'd be interested to hear the logic for that. Tankless heaters tend to encourage more water use, especially since there is usually a long delay before the water comes out hot, so more is wasted. Not to mention, of course, the main selling point, which is that every member of your house can take back-to-back 45 minute showers and never run out of hot water. Modern (after a 2015 law) tank water heaters are very well insulated, so the actual efficiency losses due to the tank itself are in the single digit percentage range (I've seen 6-8%.) Perhaps an argument could be made about the environmental impact of all the steel and closed-cell foam for a tank heater vs. the smaller size of a tankless, but I've never seen anyone try to compare that.
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May 18, 2020 13:22
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B-Nasty posted:I'd be interested to hear the logic for that. Tankless heaters tend to encourage more water use, especially since there is usually a long delay before the water comes out hot, so more is wasted. Not to mention, of course, the main selling point, which is that every member of your house can take back-to-back 45 minute showers and never run out of hot water. The DOE suggests that tankless water heaters are more energy-efficient for most households, probably because they don't have to consume energy throughout the day to keep a big reservoir warm. That's usually the main selling point that I see advertised If you're the kind of person who thinks about energy consumption enough to consider switching to a tankless water heater then you're probably not going to suddenly start taking 45 minute showers.
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May 18, 2020 13:52
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I have a buddy who built a place with tankless and a continuous loop so it’s near-instant whole house while not having a reservoir. Although it’s gas fired, he’s got a whole-house generator and ATS so the system will work if the power goes down. I’d totally do the same for a new build.
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May 18, 2020 16:06
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Hed posted:I have a buddy who built a place with tankless and a continuous loop so it’s near-instant whole house while not having a reservoir. Hopefully the loop is well insulated or else it's probably not really better than a well insulated tank from an efficiency standpoint.
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May 19, 2020 00:59
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Inept posted:Hopefully the loop is well insulated or else it's probably not really better than a well insulated tank from an efficiency standpoint. The heat should all be lost in internal walls, so as long as the house would be cooler than you'd otherwise want it the energy isn't entirely wasted. On the other hand, whenever you're running the AC it's a terrible situation.
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May 19, 2020 01:05
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Hmm. My SO used a pocket knife to saw off some of the ceiling drywall to widen the opening for a light fixture, and got tons of white dust everywhere. Is this an asbestos risk? The house was built in 1981 and the ceiling is orange-peel texture (NOT popcorn or heavy texture, it's a very smooth roll-on orange peel), but I worry about asbestos in the actual drywall panel that she sawed through.
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May 20, 2020 00:35
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Drywall gives off lots of white dust yes. Or does she have a secret coke habit? But seriously, asbestos stopped being used in drywall in 1980 from what I looked up, so you should be fine. Bird in a Blender fucked around with this message at 00:50 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 00:47
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Nah an 80s house is good and I don't think I've ever heard of drywall with asbestos. Mostly it was time and insulation / wrapped around furnace ducts..
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May 20, 2020 00:49
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It's just gypsum powder. I don't think you're hacking through asbestos with a pocket knife anyway.
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May 20, 2020 01:08
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Hmm. My SO used a pocket knife to saw off some of the ceiling drywall to widen the opening for a light fixture, and got tons of white dust everywhere. Is this an asbestos risk? The house was built in 1981 and the ceiling is orange-peel texture (NOT popcorn or heavy texture, it's a very smooth roll-on orange peel), but I worry about asbestos in the actual drywall panel that she sawed through. It's a ultra-minor silicosis risk / breathing hazard in those quantities, but nothing a hepa vac won't suck up forever. Next time saw with the vac right up against it and you don't have to deal with anything.
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May 20, 2020 01:35
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Yeah definitely clean it up even though it's not asbestos
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May 20, 2020 03:17
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My experiences with traveling to ultra poor countries/regions (I think north of 40 now), is that they all use the tankless water heaters. This could be two reasons 1. cheaper to manufacturer/ship/total profit margin for store 2. way way way more efficient, mandated by government Either way, very interesting that like 70% of the developing world uses tankless, very rare to see tank heaters abroad in my experience. My guess would be that as the end user, you want the cheapest total cost of ownership which for whatever reason ends up being tankless, or at least, 3+ billion people have been very convincingly lied to
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May 20, 2020 08:37
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Leperflesh posted:I don't think you're hacking through asbestos with a pocket knife anyway. Asbestos was in so many different products and a LOT of them were friable. Everything from ceiling tile to glues and caulks to the super durable stuff you're thinking of like transite board. At this point you hardly see much of the really soft stuff anymore as it's been removed or just renovated away. You still see some stuff like pipe wrap that has hung around for a while. I used to do asbestos surverys and one of my go to tools was a utility knife. So you can definitely hack up asbestos with a pocket knife. That said, drywall from an 80s house is probably safe.
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May 20, 2020 13:04
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Hadlock posted:My experiences with traveling to ultra poor countries/regions (I think north of 40 now), is that they all use the tankless water heaters. This could be two reasons Tankless also take up way less space. So if you’re living in some two room apartment where the shower is in your kitchen, you don’t have room for a 40 gallon tank.
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May 20, 2020 13:27
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tater_salad posted:Nah an 80s house is good and I don't think I've ever heard of drywall with asbestos. Mostly it was time and insulation / wrapped around furnace ducts.. Fire rated drywall and joint compound would both be a concern, though this house is late enough that I wouldn't worry about them there.
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May 20, 2020 14:08
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This morning I took a cold shower because I had just gotten in and the power went out for a minute. Between that and whatever reboot time the unit has meant most of my shower was ice cold. (He says with 60f input water temp. I am a delicate orchid.) Don't buy tankless if you don't need to. Developing countries also often don't have reliable power so you can't rely on it to keep your tank up to temperature. They are absolutely more efficient if you use small amounts of hot water compared to the usual brute force style of heating, but heat pumps should be giving them a run for their money. I imagine the biggest driver though is space. Here in the USA where people have 2500sqft houses you can afford to burn the cubic feet on 40+gallons of potable water being kept up to temperature. And a lot of people use suicide showers. H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 15:46 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 15:41
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As someone originally from Brazil, tankless water heaters are common in poor countries because of space (as mentioned) and ease of installation and replacement. It has nothing to do with efficiency or long term cost. Hell, in Brazil just about the most common thing in poor neighborhoods are pieces of crap plastic electric showers, frequently poorly insulated (I once got a shock when i touched the faucet to turn it off). On average just the electric shower is responsible for 1/4 of electric bills, and long term it is substantially more expensive than gas water heaters. But an electric shower is something that any random person can install and they will cost something like the equivalent of 10 bucks, while anything more complicated will require some expertise and greater initial outlay.
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May 20, 2020 16:38
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Tankless water heaters have always intrigued me with the promise of unlimited hot water, but I've always had concerns about sizing, and their ability to heat water up fast enough. Like if you're in the northeast where it gets really cold and you're trying to fill a big tub with a 4 or 5 gallon a minute fixture and it's winter and the water is coming in at 40 degrees, do you have to run a 2nd one in parallel to get the water hot enough? My current house has a 75 gallon natural gas water heater and it performs really well. I've not ran out of hot water yet, even with 9 extended family members visiting. My natural gas costs for a month are around 15 to 20 dollars, so I'm happy with that cost.
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May 20, 2020 17:25
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That's called 'rise', and you need to size your unit to provide sufficient rise based on your local groundwater temperature average rating. I have a 180,000btu unit I'm preparing to install, which gives me 70F rise at 4.9GPM. If you only needed a 30F rise, for example, it could provide 9.8GPM. In that case, you'd probably get a small unit, unless you believe running three simultaneous showers is commonplace for you. As a lonesome goon, I only need about 20 minutes of hot water per day. I'm expecting tankless to be a big benefit. It's also a combi unit, and will be providing my radiant heating as well.
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May 20, 2020 22:03
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The best use for a water heater tank imo is as an emergency water supply in case of an earthquake.
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May 21, 2020 22:08
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Yeah and if you're in an area where solar hot water makes sense then a tank is probably pretty important
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May 22, 2020 05:13
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Does anyone have any experience/opinions about electronic gate systems? We're going to get a swinging one installed across the driveway to enclose the back yard so the dog can run around and I'm not sure if there's a particularly good or bad one we should use.
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May 22, 2020 19:08
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Anyone have recommended brands or vendors of outdoor rugs? My balcony has a black rubber roof for a floor and it's terribly hot now that the sun is out.
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May 24, 2020 18:56
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A “tiny touch up” project spiraled out of control and now I’m nursing a beer after 3 trips to Home Depot and repainting the biggest wall of my home. Curse the prior owners and their love of cast iron wall decor 
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May 25, 2020 00:22
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Democratic Pirate posted:A “tiny touch up” project spiraled out of control and now I’m nursing a beer after 3 trips to Home Depot and repainting the biggest wall of my home. Curse the prior owners and their love of cast iron wall decor This describes every weekend project for me and my wife is threatening to leave me over it.
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May 25, 2020 00:43
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Our house got the $1/gallon flat white matte paint they use to slap on top of the old paint for staging right before we bought it, it will scuff if you even look at it too long and has the texture of a dusty chalkboard. I do not think cheaper paint exists in the world From what I understand toddlers will just destroy your house anyways, so going to try and not think about it until that stage of our lives is over and let them crayon the walls for now and then plan on putting in new floors and repaint the whole house after they are 5-6 or whenever the rate of destruction plateaus
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May 25, 2020 01:27
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Hadlock posted:Our house got the $1/gallon flat white matte paint they use to slap on top of the old paint for staging right before we bought it, it will scuff if you even look at it too long and has the texture of a dusty chalkboard. I do not think cheaper paint exists in the world We bought fancy Benjamin Moore paint (since it's in town, 3 minutes away), because the kitchen and living area were mint green???? Painted it all "Dove", and it helped immensely. Also, good Benjamin Moore paint meant that when my toddler took crayons to the wall it came off easily with a soap and a sponge and you can't tell Crayola was involved. Would buy expensive paint again.
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May 25, 2020 05:27
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Always buy the good paint especially if you're the poor bastard putting it on the walls.
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May 25, 2020 05:44
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We used Benjamin Moore when doing our 'rona repaint special a few months back. A+, would do it again, came out great. Seems silly to cheap out on paint.
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May 25, 2020 15:26
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I got the cheap poo poo for ceilings and inside closets, because it looks fine and you don't need to spend $60/gal on a surface you can't touch/see. Behr Ceiling Ultra White, $17/gal, would recommend.
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May 25, 2020 15:30
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Good paint isn't just about durability but also how easy it is to apply and work with. However I don't disagree with that strategy. Even the 'nice' paint I get is the Behr Marquee which we've really liked.
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May 25, 2020 15:43
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Sirotan posted:I got the cheap poo poo for ceilings and inside closets, because it looks fine and you don't need to spend $60/gal on a surface you can't touch/see. Behr Ceiling Ultra White, $17/gal, would recommend. Live your best life, get the purple to white ceiling paint. But otherwise agreed.
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May 25, 2020 16:02
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H110Hawk posted:Live your best life, get the purple to white ceiling paint. But otherwise agreed.  I had no idea that was a thing.
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May 25, 2020 16:12
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Behr Premium Plus ($25/gal) for me because it’s the interior paint on all my walls and the second I put anything nicer on one wall I will have signed a binding agreement with my wife to repaint the whole house.
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May 25, 2020 16:20
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