|
the problem is that there's likely always going to be an optimal unit to take. you take blorcs cuz they're better? well this lord buffs gobbos! except now they're cheaper and nearly as good or even better so... you just take them instead. the benefit to something like night runners is that they're cheaper: if they do the job, that should be good enough, and taking better units for that role is just inefficient. but then stuff like upkeep penalties and lightning strike severely favor deathstacks, and stuff like red line buffs and tech bonuses vary in effectiveness so some units just become hideously superior due to those perks, but it also all kind of doesnt matter because you're trashing the AI which is just bad at the game. i tend to go wide with my armies because it helps defend my territory from those nefarious AI tricks like "not suiciding on my best defenses, sometimes" or "occasionally attacking places i don't have my armies", and the like which is the eternal blight on these games, i gather. barring that i like having extra money for buildings and squandering trying to make an ai faction like me. so even with the upkeep penalty stuff going on ill take cheaper units because i win with them anyways e: also in shogun 2 you went with ashigaru everything with spear cav or you were just doing things wrong, unfortunately. they were ridiculously cost efficient. until you get like, stacks of monk archers with accuracy upgrades because you are a dick, a glorious, evil, dick Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 20:47 on May 26, 2020 |
#
?
May 26, 2020 20:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 23:50 |
|
|
On the other hand with Shogun its combat system made buying most samurai pointless, since your economy tended to be pretty weak for a long time due to corruption and general maintenance costs (you didn't get free 2500 gold per turn like in WH2 and not nearly as many upkeep reduction abilities) you were better off just buying archers and yari ashigaru for 99% of the game until your economy could support the premium units like katana masters
RoyalScion fucked around with this message at 20:48 on May 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 20:43
|
|
|
That's probably true and I admit to rose tinted glasses with Shogun, in practice you get alot of what you say I would guess, I can't quite remember myself. Still on its own I think the roster was really good in the sense I described, and judging from the caveats described it could probably be so in practice as well with some tweaks and changes to the campaign and its mechanics and pacing. Starting with the assumption that you are going to have access from pretty much the entire roster from the start and using mixed armies. I think the idea of having to unlock units, especially upgraded versions of units, through tiered buildings is very much an old traditional RTS convention that the Total War series should have shed a long time ago, but has not yet truly done. Three Kingdoms shifted the recruitment to characters but didn't really get rid of the unit tiers and progressive unlocking to go from trash tier to mixed to full elite.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 20:50
|
|
|
Tomb Kings are the start of how I'd prefer things are done. Cash is just for buildings, and then they should work to make them a bit more interesting than they have been. Have an army cap that increases with tech/an expensive other purchase. Though rather than capping the units per faction, just have army cost limits somehow. Whether it's via TW multiplayer expense cap, or more like TT point cost, would ideally be a system I'd like to see. This way you COULD just recruit elites turn 1 if you wanted, but your resulting army would be a lot smaller than a wide chaff army.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 21:03
|
|
|
yeah ive never really liked that aspect; i think the opposite might be more interesting with some factions where you start with the ability to recruit those fun things but if, say, nuln gets razed then you have to pay thru the nose to be able to get as many cannons and maybe those steam tanks really are now too valuable to use other things I've thought of are: replenishment costs money which scales with how far you are away from facilities that can recruit those units, reduced movement speed on map depending on size of army, upkeep costs rise exponentially as total value of army increases, colonizing / occupying reduces growth in all your old territories (colonizing moreso), raiding causes attrition to garrison not a single one of these are good ideas or would improve anything. i give them all my complete endorsement
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 21:03
|
|
|
Tiler Kiwi posted:yeah ive never really liked that aspect; i think the opposite might be more interesting with some factions where you start with the ability to recruit those fun things but if, say, nuln gets razed then you have to pay thru the nose to be able to get as many cannons and maybe those steam tanks really are now too valuable to use Tying units to certain areas would be interesting and making conquering those areas fun, though it'd be annoying for factions that supposed to be more peaceful with their fellows. Like if you could only build dragon princes if you control or are allied/trade with Caledor would be interesting and make it matter more as a place on the map.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 21:05
|
|
|
alex314 posted:Skaven are still the worst possible race to siege: got a drop on Skavenblight with Ikit being somewhere else. I won, but only because they wasted nuke on some gobbos engaged with spawned rats instead of arty. At least as a consolation prize I got 30k teeth for sacking. skavenblight is a very special case, as it's both the subfaction with nukes and has extra defenses cuz it's the Big Deal place taking it is always a pain
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 21:06
|
|
|
the older TW games solved the problem of unit diversity by just not having any
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 21:07
|
|
|
juggalo baby coffin posted:the older TW games solved the problem of unit diversity by just not having any I always thought Rome 2 was decent...but yeah other games not so much. *looks sadly at 3K*
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 21:08
|
|
|
Eimi posted:Tomb Kings are the start of how I'd prefer things are done. Cash is just for buildings, and then they should work to make them a bit more interesting than they have been. Have an army cap that increases with tech/an expensive other purchase. Though rather than capping the units per faction, just have army cost limits somehow. Whether it's via TW multiplayer expense cap, or more like TT point cost, would ideally be a system I'd like to see. This way you COULD just recruit elites turn 1 if you wanted, but your resulting army would be a lot smaller than a wide chaff army. the deathblob issue is in every nongrog war game because none of them are brave enough to create systems reflecting how horribly ludicrously obnoxious and awful it is to get any large body of people to do drat anything at all. oh boy you can only march your giant army five miles a day because you have to move in a column on a poo poo road and by the time your dudes in the front have been going for six hours the people in the back have finally been able to start walking. oops time to eat whoops the river literally ran out of water and now everyone is loving dead the saying is something like "an arrow is strongest at the start of its flight"; you could basically destroy an army by just staying back a bit and it would eventually collapse into total disorder. but in games you just click all mans and roll them forwards and being a big faction with a lot of territory just means your soldier katamari is bigger instead of meaning you blow a decades worth of your gdp just trying to get your dudes to deal with an angry band of street preachers Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 21:14 on May 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 21:11
|
|
|
Tiler Kiwi posted:the deathblob issue is in every nongrog war game because none of them are brave enough to create systems reflecting how horribly ludicrously obnoxious and awful it is to get any large body of people to do drat anything at all. oh boy you can only march your giant army five miles a day because you have to move in a column on a poo poo road and by the time your dudes in the front have been going for six hours the people in the back have finally been able to start walking. oops time to eat whoops the river literally ran out of water and now everyone is loving dead i like it when orcs hit other orcs
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 21:15
|
|
|
How about having unit caps for armies, but tying it to the level of the Lord leading them? So a higher leveled lord would be able to field more elite units, while lower tier lords would mostly be fielding chaffs with maybe a few high tier troops. Also maybe make it so that lower tier armies can move around more easily. Should make taking out high tier enemy lords more rewarding, while still having room for more lower tier armies to run around and do cleanup.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 21:16
|
|
|
I mean it's a game design problem of how do you make it so I have to have most of my armies sitting around guarding my territory instead of being able to unite them into a giant fist. And then secondly how do you make that system actually fun and not just punching you in the dick. Attila tries, but eventually you can stabilize the WRE and once you get back on the horse it's doomstack time.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 21:18
|
|
|
Endorph posted:i like it when orcs hit other orcs yes but instead of having this how about losing an entire campaign you spent three weeks doing spreadsheets over, because your boars got sleeping sickness and all your lads starved to death trying to cross the badlands before even getting to bash each other if only we could transcend concepts like "fun" and "playability", we could achieve True Game Design.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 21:30
|
|
|
Eimi posted:I mean it's a game design problem of how do you make it so I have to have most of my armies sitting around guarding my territory instead of being able to unite them into a giant fist. And then secondly how do you make that system actually fun and not just punching you in the dick. I have no idea if this would work at all but I just think it would be nice if the game would be actually harder rather than more tedious on higher difficulties
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 21:38
|
|
|
imagine a rat screaming endlessly as its buried under more and more paperwork relating to skrye weaponry parts acquisition. it claws pitifully, trying to keep its head above the tide. but you keep slowly pouring on more documents, this time about just in time shipping of warpstone caches along a march route. then you pour on cement. and you build a reasonably sized statue of a king, and there you have a park. where you have peace, and picnics, and discuss the comings and goings, but under you, the rat is still there. with the paper. and its screaming. screaming. just, endless, SCREAMING. this game, could be yours. if you were only to dream of it. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 21:40 on May 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 21:38
|
|
|
Tiler Kiwi posted:imagine a rat screaming endlessly as its buried under more and more paperwork relating to skrye weaponry parts acquisition. it claws pitifully, trying to keep its head above the tide. but you keep slowly pouring on more documents, this time about just in time shipping of warpstone caches along a march route. then you pour on cement. and you build a reasonably sized statue of a king, and there you have a park. where you have peace, and picnics, and discuss the comings and goings, but under you, the rat is still there. with the paper. and its screaming. screaming. just, endless, SCREAMING.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 21:54
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:YEah that's more of a "pump wagons are overpowered" issue than a you issue. They are kinda overtuned atm. For where they are in the roster and what they are you would expect them to be high impact but fragile compared to the sturdier Boar Boy Big 'Uns or whatnot. What's funny is that Pump Wagons with the Spikey Rollers are better in every way compared to Boar Chariots (except for armor and health) and cost like half as much. The Boar units are impressive in how completely awful they are. Minus maybe the savage orc version that are actually able to kill things. Even from back in game one, Squig Hoppers did so much better at rear charging infantry (and did better when stuck in for longer combats to boot, thanks to poison and +anti infantry) when they were released in their DLC but were locked behind research at the time. With Big Thinkin' changes allowing you to recruit them at the word go, there is basically never a reason to recruit baseline boar boys or chariots. Boar Biguns are an edge case because of the anti-large, and Savage boars of both varieties are still okay if underwhelming (but absolutely 100% amazing for Wurrzag).
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 22:03
|
|
|
The best chariots are like pump wagons, doom flayers, or lion chariots, where I just shove them into infantry and let them rack up kills. gently caress every other kind.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 22:13
|
|
|
Tiler Kiwi posted:imagine a rat screaming endlessly as its buried under more and more paperwork relating to skrye weaponry parts acquisition. it claws pitifully, trying to keep its head above the tide. but you keep slowly pouring on more documents, this time about just in time shipping of warpstone caches along a march route. then you pour on cement. and you build a reasonably sized statue of a king, and there you have a park. where you have peace, and picnics, and discuss the comings and goings, but under you, the rat is still there. with the paper. and its screaming. screaming. just, endless, SCREAMING. 
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 22:13
|
|
|
It's weird how much of a backseat chaos has taken in this game since they had such a big presence in the lore and was in fact the winners of the entire setting at the end
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 22:16
|
|
|
Zzulu posted:It's weird how much of a backseat chaos has taken in this game since they had such a big presence in the lore and was in fact the winners of the entire setting at the end We don't take kindly to Age of Sigmar fans round these parts. 
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 22:24
|
|
|
Broken Cog posted:Does it have to be a ghost lord? Because otherwise I think Arkhan can recruit hexwraiths. Unfortunately Arkhan was dead by the time I got anywhere close to his part of the map, as far as rogue armies go I hadnt considered that and will keep my eye out
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 22:26
|
|
|
Fully activated and deployed Imrik is insane lol and I don't even use all the special dragons in his army. Been murdering my way through the southern parts of the world spine, killing clan mors, and every battle is find "surprise" settlement of skaven! It has walls and a garrisoned amy in it! Send in Imrik, Mikaella and 3 dragons, watch everything die to bound spells, dragonfire, claws and firestorms(That spell have been doing Work this campaign!) while the rest of the army awkwardly looks on, wondering why they are even bothering to leave camp anymore.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 22:53
|
|
|
Close to the end of the Vortex campaign as Tyrion for my first playthrough. What's a good setup to try next in Mortal Empires in a co-op game? One for me (probably one pretty different from Tyrion) and one for my friend who has only played non-WH TW games. Assume we would get the DLC needed. Also is there a good video resource for battle tactics? Maybe general campaign strategies too? I also don't really know much about if certain skills are stupid or how all the different stats interact.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 22:59
|
|
|
Yeah, actually getting the chance to use Fire it is an ACE of a lore. I still think Heaven's is my overall favorite just because I love Curse of the Midnight Wind, but drat if Fire isn't a close second. Also invalidates taking any other lore for a non lord mage, because they can't ride a loving dragon.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 22:59
|
|
|
Flaming Skull is a lifesaver against Skaven. I think my fire mage had 1/3 or more of all kills in every battle early on during my Imrik campaign.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 23:08
|
|
|
Tiler Kiwi posted:imagine a rat screaming endlessly as its buried under more and more paperwork relating to skrye weaponry parts acquisition. it claws pitifully, trying to keep its head above the tide. but you keep slowly pouring on more documents, this time about just in time shipping of warpstone caches along a march route. then you pour on cement. and you build a reasonably sized statue of a king, and there you have a park. where you have peace, and picnics, and discuss the comings and goings, but under you, the rat is still there. with the paper. and its screaming. screaming. just, endless, SCREAMING. As a mid-level bureaucrat, that rat is me.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 23:14
|
|
|
Endorph posted:Dont post your porn fanfic in this thread plz Post more actually
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 23:21
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57M8O1xpUXs This is so accurate it hurts.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 23:23
|
|
|
Zzulu posted:It's weird how much of a backseat chaos has taken in this game since they had such a big presence in the lore and was in fact the winners of the entire setting at the end Nah not really. See here's the secret about Chaos. Nobody loving likes Chaos. They're boring as poo poo. ...At least, when they're Chaos Undivided anyway. Who the gently caress cares about Chaos Undivided? Woo boy vaguely evil heavy armor dudes and the odd viking! Eeeevil dragons! Chaos is fun when you stop being a supervillain centrist and double down on a Chaos God specifically the correct one, Nurgle and not one second before. In game 3, Chaos will hopefully get enough attention that Fun Chaos will be a real thing. Right now it's not.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 23:24
|
|
|
Tiler Kiwi posted:imagine a rat screaming endlessly as its buried under more and more paperwork relating to skrye weaponry parts acquisition. it claws pitifully, trying to keep its head above the tide. but you keep slowly pouring on more documents, this time about just in time shipping of warpstone caches along a march route. then you pour on cement. and you build a reasonably sized statue of a king, and there you have a park. where you have peace, and picnics, and discuss the comings and goings, but under you, the rat is still there. with the paper. and its screaming. screaming. just, endless, SCREAMING. 
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 23:28
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:Nah not really. See here's the secret about Chaos. Nobody loving likes Chaos. They're boring as poo poo. There's mods that already do that; as with all mods that add units it can be a bit hit-and-miss though.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 23:39
|
|
|
I really like Chaos, even Chaos undivided, but when you strip out all of Chaos's batshit crazy stuff and only keep the generic armored dudes in it turns out its really boring I mean look at some of the poo poo that Warriors of Chaos is missing: Khorne Skullcrushers  Hellstriders of Slaanesh  Daemon Prince  Mutilith Vortex Beast  Chaos War Shrine  sure the Daemon Prince might be a little generic looking but in game it would be between the size of a minotaur and a giant and would be a spell caster so it would at least be something unique Edit: theres even wilder stuff that Forgeworld put out and thats where CA got the Dread Saurian, Rogue Idol and River Troll hag from
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 23:48
|
|
|
Anyone tried pairing up a Punitive (- enemy missile resistance) Princess with a metal mage and just run normal archers through the entire campaign as HEs?
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 23:49
|
|
|
gelt's campaign got a hell of a lot rougher with the new update rather immediately having to deal with both skaven and vampire corruption when your anti-corruption buildings don't kick on until what, tier three? empire get it together the sources are relatively easy to deal with, VC-prime aside if they get down there, but still lingers...
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 23:49
|
|
|
Yeah, its kind of amazing how poo poo the current Chaos aesthetic is. I never got the appeal of 'wow dudes in armor' versus literally any of the interesting things you could do with Chaos. Fantasy doesn't even make the dudes in armor interesting like 40k does with things like the Noise Marines etc.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2020 23:54
|
|
|
Luckily Daemons are exactly the kind of technicolor weirdness I like about Chaos, especially Tzeentch and Slaanesh.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2020 00:04
|
|
|
It is me again, coming with a new mod: The Northmen Come! As the world feasts in the afterglow of all that Green Juju, the north prepares, and now it is set to come in as a crashing tide to the old world! So some highlights: *If you have Warden and the Paunch installed, Norsca gains the new Troll units themselves! (it is not, as the mod says required, if you get this mod and you do not have the DLC the new trolls will simply not show up.) *Speaking of trolls, they are easier to acquire and recruit, both in your main norscan provinces but also abroad. Throgg's troll skills have been expanded and they (and any other thing that boosts trolls) will also affect your new trolls! *There are some new techs that give wonderful benefits based on who you play, as Wulfrik you can empower your Marauder's fury into a frenzy and as Throgg, you will find your trolls never tire. In addition, there is a new tech for both lords which imbue Fimir Warriors with regeneration. *Both Throgg and Wulfrik now have access to the God Specific Choices in their skill tree, and normal Chieftans gain a melee tree as well as their God Choices tree. *Norscan Garrisons have been upgraded, no more will you sit in woe and despair as your tier 5 settlements are populated by the village idiots. I hope somebody here will enjoy it!
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2020 00:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 23:50 |
|
|
Demons are alright but the game already has endless varieties of skeletons so who needs them, really.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2020 00:23
|
|
