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https://twitter.com/bkoo/status/1265662175730905088?s=19 shockingly the documentary about a sport no one watches and a guy who is universally hated did not do as well as the one about the literal most famous person on the planet
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May 27, 2020 16:44
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Yeah I love Ben but it'd have been a miracle for "Lance" to have gotten even a million viewers.
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May 27, 2020 17:05
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Armstrong was at one point one of the most famous athletes in the country, and one of a handful which were "household names" among people with no interest in sports, I can see why they might have thought it would be a big one.
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May 27, 2020 17:30
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Pointing out that people don't care about cycling is kind of irrelevant since the US has always been willing to take one person from a niche sport and make them a superstar, just like Michael Phelps or Jackie Joyner Kersee.
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May 27, 2020 18:06
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Bip Roberts posted:Pointing out that people don't care about cycling is kind of irrelevant since the US has always been willing to take one person from a niche sport and make them a superstar, just like Michael Phelps or Jackie Joyner Kersee. This happens every Olympics but basically only lasts for the length of the games themselves. Then they go by the wayside for 3 years before the next ones. Jordan was, without hyperbole, an absolute cultural icon and was constantly in the spotlight. Lance had a big profile for a while but it was never anywhere near as big as MJ's and even if both of them are unrepentant dicks, at least MJ is an interesting unrepentant dick.
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May 27, 2020 18:22
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He wasn't as big as MJ but as far as name recognition and being a media figure, he was at least comparable, imo.
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May 27, 2020 18:42
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Livestrong bracelets were the most ubiquitous accessory in the country during the 2000s. He was a huge deal beyond sports. Also the doc is very good so far.
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May 27, 2020 18:51
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Henchman of Santa posted:Livestrong bracelets were the most ubiquitous accessory in the country during the 2000s. He was a huge deal beyond sports. Also the doc is very good so far. This. He was more of a symbol of overcoming health problems through athletics than a pure athlete, in terms of public appeal. I mean, he was sponsored by the US Postal Service, that's not small potatoes. Livestrong is his actual legacy, for better or worse.
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May 27, 2020 18:57
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Being popular for a bit of time doesnt really matter. MJ is still basically as popular as he was the same can not be said of characters like Lance who were more a passing fad
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May 27, 2020 19:08
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CharlestheHammer posted:Being popular for a bit of time doesnt really matter. MJ is still basically as popular as he was the same can not be said of characters like Lance who were more a passing fad Jordan absolutely is not as popular today as he was in the 90s.
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May 27, 2020 19:19
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Bip Roberts posted:Jordan absolutely is not as popular today as he was in the 90s. Is the Crying Jordan meme not enough?
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May 27, 2020 19:20
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Bip Roberts posted:Jordan absolutely is not as popular today as he was in the 90s. Nah he is, his name basically still has a reverence you dont see often for better or worse. He is not popular in the same way but it hasnt really slacked any like Lance or Tiger
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May 27, 2020 19:21
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Bip Roberts posted:Jordan absolutely is not as popular today as he was in the 90s. He also hasn't embarrassed himself in public...amazingly. His publicist must be amazing. I work near Nike, and the stories I hear from Nike people are hilarious. Apparently he's a lot of fun to be around, but he's also wildly unpredictable.
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May 27, 2020 19:24
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:He also hasn't embarrassed himself in public... 
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May 27, 2020 19:29
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reverence is a funny thing to call laughing at michael jordan's thousand dollar baggy jeans
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May 27, 2020 19:30
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Jordan probably isn't as popular as he was in 98 but he's still easily one of the like five most famous athletes on earth. He is a literal billion dollar brand. It's not just a matter of Lance being less famous now, he's also someone who people loathe and feel cheated by. I like the documentary so far but it's not surprising people aren't super excited to watch him the way they were excited to relive the glory days of a still almost universially beloved figure like Jordan.
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May 27, 2020 19:32
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i was pleasantly surprised by the doc too, i was ready to jump on it but it seemed really well-researched about the nature of the sport in the 90s
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May 27, 2020 20:02
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Didn't help there wasn't a lot of build up for the Lance doc
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May 27, 2020 20:08
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:He also hasn't embarrassed himself in public...amazingly. His publicist must be amazing.
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May 27, 2020 20:27
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:I work near Nike, and the stories I hear from Nike people are hilarious. Apparently he's a lot of fun to be around, but he's also wildly unpredictable. post these stories
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May 27, 2020 20:48
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He called all the employees at the Nike employee store loving midgets.
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May 27, 2020 21:47
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:This. He was more of a symbol of overcoming health problems through athletics than a pure athlete, in terms of public appeal. I mean, he was sponsored by the US Postal Service, that's not small potatoes. Livestrong is his actual legacy, for better or worse. That's what doomed him though. He was a de facto employee of the US Government during his tour wins so when they got involved in the investigation, they weren't going to treat him lightly. MourningView posted:Jordan probably isn't as popular as he was in 98 but he's still easily one of the like five most famous athletes on earth. He is a literal billion dollar brand. I'm almost certain most soccer and cricket superstars beat MJ in terms of popularity. At this point, he's probably better known for his shoe than his career in certain parts of the world.
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May 27, 2020 22:05
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Anyone who is still mad that Lance cheated is an idiot. If youre going to be mad, be mad at the godawful acts he committed to cover it up. But the cheating is useless to be mad about because there was not a soul capable of winning those tours who wasnt also doped up.
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May 27, 2020 22:18
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Island Nation posted:That's what doomed him though. He was a de facto employee of the US Government during his tour wins so when they got involved in the investigation, they weren't going to treat him lightly. Him being known for his global brand of shoes is still being known though.
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May 27, 2020 22:41
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Mike Missanelli lost his drat mind again hug your local radio producer E: https://twitter.com/CrossingBroad/s...-next-week.html
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May 27, 2020 22:42
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Island Nation posted:That's what doomed him though. He was a de facto employee of the US Government during his tour wins so when they got involved in the investigation, they weren't going to treat him lightly. also fundamentally he was a bully, and bullies get hangers-on and yes-men, but not loyalty. once he was out of power people were quick to toss him overboard Miguel Indurain almost certainly doped and you won't find a single person to say anything bad about him because he was quiet, had lots of friends, and was well-liked among basically everyone
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May 27, 2020 22:46
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soggybagel posted:Him being known for his global brand of shoes is still being known though. Not really. Everyone knows Louis Vuitton the brand. Literally nobody knows who Louis Vuitton the man is (well, was). Most people over the age of like 30 probably know Michael Jordan the person. But his celebrity has waned after being essentially out of the spotlight for 15-20 years. There was a time when he was on every magazine cover, in TONS of commercials, had a hit movie, and basically you would have to TRY to avoid him. Young people nowadays wouldnt really know him by his face, even if they know Jordan the brand.
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May 27, 2020 23:03
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... His face is literally the one thing the kids who never saw him play would know him for. His face is literally one of the most used Memes on the internet.
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May 27, 2020 23:07
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sportsgenius86 posted:Anyone who is still mad that Lance cheated is an idiot. If you’re going to be mad, be mad at the godawful acts he committed to cover it up. But the cheating is useless to be mad about because there was not a soul capable of winning those tours who wasn’t also doped up. I felt that way to some extent after watching the doc, but mostly I felt that we're all idiots to think he wasn't cheating when he came back from stage 4 cancer and won the year after guys were being thrown off the tour left and right. Well, not me, I was 7. But most people.
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May 28, 2020 00:45
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Henchman of Santa posted:I felt that way to some extent after watching the doc, but mostly I felt that we're all idiots to think he wasn't cheating when he came back from stage 4 cancer and won the year after guys were being thrown off the tour left and right. Well, not me, I was 7. But most people. I rewatched some of the reviews of his wins and lol he's suddenly the best time trialer and can outclimb Marco Pantani, I can't believe he didnt immediately get tossed for that alone
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May 28, 2020 01:51
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Between that and the upcoming McGwire/Sosa doc it's the summer of "no poo poo that guy was on PEDs"
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May 28, 2020 01:53
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eternally a fan of this article about the propensity of cycling fans to forgive some dopers but not others https://cyclingtips.com/2018/04/commentary-a-partially-subjective-ranking-of-cyclings-dopers-loved-and-hated/
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May 28, 2020 01:54
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Mahoning posted:Not really. Everyone knows Louis Vuitton the brand. Literally nobody knows who Louis Vuitton the man is (well, was). Most people over the age of like 30 probably know Michael Jordan the person. But his celebrity has waned after being essentially out of the spotlight for 15-20 years. There was a time when he was on every magazine cover, in TONS of commercials, had a hit movie, and basically you would have to TRY to avoid him. Young people nowadays wouldnt really know him by his face, even if they know Jordan the brand. Louis Vuitton the man died in 1892 and the logo for the brand isnt an outline of himself. I have friends with young kids now who learn about Jordan from YouTube videos and watch his stuff because theyre hoop head kids. They dont know him intrinsically like 30+ year olds but youre talking about him like hes Henry Ford. Hes still alive and is constantly spoken about as a focal point to nba greatness. If youre a 14 year old obsessed with the NBA youve watched Jordan mixtapes. You know who he is. Hes much more an extension of the brand than Louis Vuitton is to that brand. But also I kind of disagree at the base level. If kids know the brand they sort of at some base level are knowing Jordan.
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May 28, 2020 01:55
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Henchman of Santa posted:I felt that way to some extent after watching the doc, but mostly I felt that we're all idiots to think he wasn't cheating when he came back from stage 4 cancer and won the year after guys were being thrown off the tour left and right. Well, not me, I was 7. But most people. It wasn't even that no one thought about it, but that anyone who did bring it up was a bitter rear end in a top hat who loved cancer (or a jealous European, I guess). Which actually is kinda similar to the '98 home run chase where the guy who reported McGwire having andro (which was legal at the time) in his locker immediately had like every baseball columnist in the country writing angry columns about him trying to spoil this magical season. It wasn't until someone like Bonds who didn't kiss their rear end started doing it that it suddenly retroactively became tainted. soggybagel posted:Louis Vuitton the man died in 1892 and the logo for the brand isnt an outline of himself. I have friends with young kids now who learn about Jordan from YouTube videos and watch his stuff because theyre hoop head kids. They dont know him intrinsically like 30+ year olds but youre talking about him like hes Henry Ford. Hes still alive and is constantly spoken about as a focal point to nba greatness. If youre a 14 year old obsessed with the NBA youve watched Jordan mixtapes. You know who he is. Hes much more an extension of the brand than Louis Vuitton is to that brand. But also I kind of disagree at the base level. If kids know the brand they sort of at some base level are knowing Jordan. Yeah Jordan vs LeBron has been the focal point of NBA coverage for like 10+ years now he is not exactly an obscure figure MourningView fucked around with this message at 04:25 on May 28, 2020 |
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May 28, 2020 04:23
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MourningView posted:https://twitter.com/bkoo/status/1265662175730905088?s=19 I'm more likely to eventually watch the Lance one but "weirdo evil bike man that raised a bunch of money for cancer" is not something I'm as well acquainted with as MJ.
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May 28, 2020 10:02
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NASCAR Cup Series got rained out last night so they'll try again today.quote:Baseball
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May 28, 2020 12:38
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Watching the Lance doc. Im 52 minutes in and its fine. You get some insight into who this guy was. I wish it was moving faster though. Also something that sticks out about a lot of the 30 for 30/ESPN docs is theyre a bit like Marvel movies. A high basement but low ceiling. A lot of the docs adherence to a formula and this may be off/mean but a perfunctory adherence to the standard doc template hurts them. All the docs theyve done in the past decade, the ones that really transcend and are great do something interesting or are so much more focused. Hillsborough, OJ Made in America, June 17th 1994, and even The U which reveled in fun. A lot of the rest just cant decide what they want to be. And lately the recent crop have just decided longer is better. I think a perfect sports documentary is the HBO produced Broad Street Bullies. It tells the story of a team in an hour. Highs lows and humor. You go over that hour mark you better justify it. Hoop Dreams is 3 hours and literally tells the story of two boys becoming men over 4 and a half years. The breadth and scope of this undertaking is massive. They earn 3 hours. Some of these espn docs meander to a 1:45 run time and Im like, cut this poo poo down to an hour. soggybagel fucked around with this message at 20:40 on May 28, 2020 |
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May 28, 2020 20:30
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One of my favorite Sports docs that has more of a traditional format is the Bird/Magic one that HBO did. That one is loving amazing.
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May 28, 2020 21:15
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Today's times are CENTRAL because awful announcing felt like itquote:Baseball
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May 29, 2020 12:27
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soggybagel posted:Watching the Lance doc. Im 52 minutes in and its fine. You get some insight into who this guy was. I wish it was moving faster though. I think specifically it's a "we've decided on a formula" issue. the original 30 for 30 series was so diverse, with filmmakers bringing stuff in that they really wanted to do, and some of the stories were so small as well (like the Baltimore Colts band) that it was easy to get wrapped up in them. The quality was real high. And it went from being a series to a style and format, and that's why some of the later ones have been like you said, high floor, low ceiling. also shout out to Pony Excess from the original run too
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May 29, 2020 14:06
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