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cant cook creole bream posted:"The only way to fix the stream of time is to set right, what once was altered" *Takes out a sacrificial dagger.* *This Is What Paz Actually Believes*
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May 27, 2020 19:08
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Saoshyant posted:The thing about the birds is that they supposedly predate even the court's robots. They weren't made to save Annie but to watch over everything. Or so the robots said. On the other hand, the Court robots aren't really the best source when it comes to understanding Kat's motivations.
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May 27, 2020 19:12
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I dunno if I'd go so far as to say Kat is gonna turn out to have helped her past self become good at making machines like a cheat code or something. I don't think she would be willing to do that out of principle. Maybe she'd see the comparisons to Diego's research in doing so and decide against it. Hey who knows though, this chapter has surprised so far!
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May 27, 2020 19:13
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Kat is a very skilled and precocious roboticist. She has a keen analytical mind, able to perceive the essence of unfamiliar situations and relate it to things she already understands, just like any decent engineer. Though it's funny to see that literalized back at her - not everyone enjoys such a privileged perspective. She has "credentials" that are retroactive. Machines are complex; magic is simple by comparison, just inexplicable. Annie's fire simply burns only what she wants to be burned, and there's no mechanism that makes it so: it's just magic. That's not how fire works, you say? That's how this fire works. But what makes it work like that? Annie does. How? By wanting it to. That is the kind of explanation that frustrates her, but that's the nature of the world that gods and etheric beings inhabit. And that's the heart of the irony of her being deified by the robots, who, thanks to her research, are able to experience true life, influencing the ether with their belief just like humans do. She has access to a dangerous device that fucks with the ether in particular ways, an arrow that illegally turns people into property on a metaphysical level. She approached it with her customary disregard for the dignity and gravitas of etheric matters, and ended up almost making a bit of a mess, which fortunately some others were able to clean up for her. She may be making a bit more headway trying to apply an analytic perspective to all this etheric stuff, but there's nowhere that she'd have learned how to create alternate timelines like Coyote could. Her work on robo-ornithology (an aesthetic predilection inspired in her when she fell in love with a bird boy) led to her creating the design of the Tic-Toc robots independently. She had never seen a Tic-Toc before, so there's no bootstrap paradox. Still, she was able to infer that they were all the same device (at least in the sense that the two Annies are the same person). And she knows that it requires the cooperation of multiple Tic-Tocs, which means multiple future Kats must have collaborated to save Annie when she fell off the bridge. How will she manage to pull that off? The robots don't seem to ascribe omnipotence or timeline fuckery to the Angel, and etheric beings seem to have narrow purviews, so even if she is a creature "like Coyote" she's probably not the one stickin' 'em in a time machine or whatever. Loup, on the other hand, definitely has both the ability and the motive to keep Annie alive, so I assume it's his doing. This all hinges on what it means that Annie is "should not be here." If one Annie is from a foreign universe and the other is only alive because of divine intervention, that might explain it. Or if they're both from foreign universes. But it's certainly not the sort of thing you enjoy hearing about your best friend. It seems we're only dealing with finite alternate timelines here, so the paradox of the grand hotel doesn't necessarily enter into it. Even if it does, Loup can probably ignore math.
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May 27, 2020 20:22
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dragon enthusiast posted:so did kat also program in the tictoc rooting into the ground too Maybe it was trying to extract enough resources to fix itself. Given its operating conditions I'd imagine it has pretty sophisticated self-maintenance capability, if it gets damaged it's on its own. It's interesting that it's much more mechanical than Kat's recent stuff, no artificial-biological stuff in there. I wonder if it's just Tom having evolved his designs and plans for Kat's advanced tech differently since he first showed us the inside of the tic-toc way back when. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 20:40 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 20:30
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Kennel posted:From now on, Kat needs to be louder, angrier, and have access to a time machine. But enough about my River Song/Gunnerkrigg crossover fanfic
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May 27, 2020 20:40
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MikeJF posted:It's interesting that it's much more mechanical than Kat's recent stuff, no artificial-biological stuff in there. I wonder if it's just Tom having evolved his designs and plans for Kat's advanced tech differently since he first showed us the inside of the tic-toc way back when. This might be due to it being built for a complex purpose that can't be simulated with muscle and nerves.
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May 27, 2020 20:40
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Tenebrais posted:This might be due to it being built for a complex purpose that can't be simulated with muscle and nerves. Eh, the bio stuff would be perfect for wings, but they're wires and struts, we saw on the dead one. And then when it grew out it was all mech too, which you'd imagine would also be a good application of bio. Eh, I'm over analysing. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 20:51 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 20:49
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This is opposite Terminator rules, clearly.
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May 27, 2020 21:01
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Ape Has Killed Ape posted:This is opposite Terminator rules, clearly. Send a murderbot forward to the future to kill the child of the person who already won the war against the robots?
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May 27, 2020 21:17
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BrightWing posted:Yeah this. Shes all down and mopey? I keep expecting her to say "There's more..." I'm guessing there's an unfortunate conclusion at the end of this.
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May 27, 2020 21:46
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ConanTheLibrarian posted:It's simple, Kat just invented the one-bird universe. this was my interpretation of the situation, it's just one bird going back and forth across the timeline and eventually one of its iterations fucks up and gets broken and that's the one that ysengrin found e: and i'm guessing kat's down because she realized she's at the center of some weird time vortex bullshit and annie recognizing the birdbot/tictoc confirmed it
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May 27, 2020 22:58
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Lurdiak posted:I'm guessing there's an unfortunate conclusion at the end of this. "I could only build the time travel circuit by trapping ghosts in the Tic Toc, and when Ysengrin broke my bird, all the ghosts got loose!"
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May 27, 2020 23:49
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Mort never actually crossed over or whatever, Kat tricked Annie into putting Mort into one of the birds
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May 27, 2020 23:52
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"Now Annies, choose which one of you goes into the bird"
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May 27, 2020 23:58
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Macaluso posted:Mort never actually crossed over or whatever, Kat tricked Annie into putting Mort into one of the birds Nah, that was before she got the arrow. I hope city face is okay. 
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May 27, 2020 23:58
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Kat is very sad because it turns out birds really aren't real
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May 28, 2020 00:02
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Saoshyant posted:The thing about the birds is that they supposedly predate even the court's robots. They weren't made to save Annie but to watch over everything. Or so the robots said. I'm wondering if Kat is doing this to try to learn something about how the arrow was made and how it works, to try to fix Annie's predicament - something she couldn't learn just by experimenting with it, and now that the interdimensional police or whoever gave her that dire warning about messing with it, she can't do any more experiments on the arrow itself. But if she could just make one from scratch...
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May 28, 2020 00:13
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I'm sorry if I stole your thunder, Tom. But let's keep going and see where we end up with this. Ditocoaf posted:Kat seems really troubled by the fact that she built this time bird. Okay, but did current-Kat JUST build it like it's been a few years long project and she's just now finished it (or will shortly finish it), or did she...gain access to it and find out that future-Kat (possibly Machine God-Kat?) will build it at some future date? Because, I think finding out you will build something like that in the future would be kinda horrifying and put some SERIOUS pressure on you, because now YOU have to figure out how to get to the point where you CAN make something like that. Just in general, putting aside the possibility that something you will make will screw with the timeline and possibly prevent your friend from dying like they were supposed to. And then realizing you HAVE to make it because you HAVE made it. Has Tom had this planned for 14(?) years? Was Annie dead all along? maswastaken posted:Ysengrin! That was a one-of-a-kind time-travelling bird robot! Well, one of a kind-ish. Also, let's all take a minute to brush up on tenses for time travellers. Bongo Bill posted:And that's the heart of the irony of her being deified by the robots, who, thanks to her research, are able to experience true life, influencing the ether with their belief just like humans do. Kinda puts me in mind of the Warhammer 40K Emperor of Mankind. Sets out to illuminate the darkness of religion with the Light of Science, and wipes out all religion. But even before he's entombed on his Golden Throne, there's a religion forming with him as a deity. "The Emperor Protects. :signoftheimperialaquila:" "I'm not a god, I'm not a god" I insist as I am slowly deified into a living corps on my golden throne. - God Emperor of Mankind. Wa11y fucked around with this message at 02:02 on May 28, 2020 |
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May 28, 2020 01:55
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Kat says "I've been building something" and "I've never seen one" which seems like a pretty straight shot to her actually building it. Still, the knowledge she has suggests she's already sent it back once and seen the others. Or I guess she's already worked out the theoretical ramifications. Either way, it would be a lot of pressure to realize that you have to figure out how to send it back a bunch of times to actually successfully do the things you're already responsible for doing. Quite possibly this thing isn't even as advanced as it eventually becomes.
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May 28, 2020 03:09
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Today's comic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW7Op86ox9g
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May 28, 2020 04:25
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh0Y2hVe_bw&t=8s
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May 28, 2020 06:53
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Wa11y posted:I think finding out you will build something like that in the future would be kinda horrifying and put some SERIOUS pressure on you, because now YOU have to figure out how to get to the point where you CAN make something like that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZWH5qJML8c&t=59s
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May 28, 2020 15:14
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Beepity Boop posted:The ether's pretty cyclical; it's entirely possible she became the Omnissiah because she was really really good at building things, while at the same time it's possible that she's really really good at building things because she's going to become the Omnissiah. It's basically an ouroboros, if it was mechanical and also had a bird theme. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztzq05IzYds
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May 28, 2020 16:34
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It is interesting to think on the fact that the tic-toc (ol' thousand eyes) predates the court. Given how it reacted when embedded into the ground, I'm wondering if we might be pretty close to finding out what the seed bismuth is. Other potentially related long running mysteries would be the identity of the artillery man and the omega project. It feels like things are coming together.
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May 28, 2020 20:10
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I mean, the Omega Project is probably the Court's endeavour to become god! Which Kat has already done... uh oh
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May 28, 2020 20:57
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life_source posted:I mean, the Omega Project is probably the Court's endeavour to become god! Kat has merely become a wizard, with magic spells and wands and now a familiar. Now, if she managed to successfully apply her skills to Zimmy and Gamma, who were (or are?) presumably a part of the Omega Project, then who knows...
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May 28, 2020 21:08
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So the GC subreddit today had a link to this rather interesting bit of theorycrafting. Tl;dr, The reason neither Annie belongs on this timeline is because she was supposed to die when she fell off the bridge way back at the end of chapter seven, but Kat's time travelling bird changed that.
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May 28, 2020 22:00
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Tenebrais posted:Kat has merely become a wizard, with magic spells and wands and now a familiar. Pretty much still a wizard most of the time, but all bets are off in the ether. Last time Annie saw her there, she saw what Zimmy sees. And Loup could, at least somewhat perceive her even through the link between Annie and Reynard and didn’t like what he saw, either. (I suppose he could just be disgusted by the fact that all he can see is the light, but that’s not the point.) The point is Kat is a Big Deal in the ether.
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May 28, 2020 22:13
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Wa11y posted:Because, I think finding out you will build something like that in the future would be kinda horrifying and put some SERIOUS pressure on you, because now YOU have to figure out how to get to the point where you CAN make something like that. Just in general, putting aside the possibility that something you will make will screw with the timeline and possibly prevent your friend from dying like they were supposed to. And then realizing you HAVE to make it because you HAVE made it. Nonsense! Kat can just send the instructions back in time to herself, then she'll know how to do it!
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May 28, 2020 22:17
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Wyld Karde posted:So the GC subreddit today had a link to this rather interesting bit of theorycrafting. Wa11y posted:Aw, poo poo. Neither Annie is supposed to be here because she died when she fell off the bridge. But Kat's temporal shenanigans caused the TikToks to be there to save her.
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May 28, 2020 22:19
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CodfishCartographer posted:Nonsense! Kat can just send the instructions back in time to herself, then she'll know how to do it! Nonsense! Her future self can decide the work involved in solving the problem was valuable in its own right and give her squat! Her future self has kept her in the dark until now after all. Or maybe Temporal Affairs have some opinions about it.
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May 28, 2020 22:27
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Dr Subterfuge posted:Nonsense! Her future self can decide the work involved in solving the problem was valuable in its own right and give her squat! Her future self has kept her in the dark until now after all. Or maybe Temporal Affairs have some opinions about it. I still love the ghost interpreter guy who was like "Oh, yeah, Coyote makes some alternate timelines on occasion, it's really inconvenient" so mundanely, like it's just another day on the job.
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May 28, 2020 22:30
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CodfishCartographer posted:Nonsense! Kat can just send the instructions back in time to herself, then she'll know how to do it! If Kat is taught how to do a thing, then goes back in time to teach herself, then where did the initial knowledge come from?
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May 28, 2020 23:10
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Unfortunately for your point, causality is more of a guideline than a rule in this story. Jones existed before humans were alive to imagine her, and Coyote created the stars before humans were alive to imagine him.
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May 28, 2020 23:17
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Dr Subterfuge posted:Unfortunately for your point, causality is more of a guideline than a rule in this story. Jones existed before humans were alive to imagine her, and Coyote created the stars before humans were alive to imagine him. They're not really bootstraps paradoxes though - there's nothing to say belief in Coyote was based on any actual encounters with Coyote. Even he thinks that his legend is based on people's feelings and projections on nature.
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May 28, 2020 23:31
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Uthor posted:If Kat is taught how to do a thing, then goes back in time to teach herself, then where did the initial knowledge come from? From Kat, of course
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May 28, 2020 23:46
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Uthor posted:If Kat is taught how to do a thing, then goes back in time to teach herself, then where did the initial knowledge come from?
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May 28, 2020 23:57
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Tenebrais posted:They're not really bootstraps paradoxes though - there's nothing to say belief in Coyote was based on any actual encounters with Coyote. Even he thinks that his legend is based on people's feelings and projections on nature. I don't think I need to prove there is a bootstrap paradox already in the story to say that it doesn't have a problem with playing fast and loose with causality sometimes and shrugs its shoulders at arguments like "that doesn't make sense" In other words: CodfishCartographer posted:From Kat, of course
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May 29, 2020 00:02
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There's no bootstrap paradox in this case because Kat didn't copy the designs for this robot from anywhere.
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May 29, 2020 00:02
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