|
jabby posted:Ronya does have a point about Corbyn. He got a significant pass on issues of triangulation on account of his past record. At least some of the motive behind this right now IS the pandemic situation, for a number of reasons: - that people of colour in the US are the ones who have been called upon vastly disproportionately to keep working in unsafe conditions throughout the crisis - that people of colour have worse access to healthcare to help with the pandemic and have had a disproportionately high death rate at least partly as a direct result of that - that white people bringing guns to state houses to demand haircuts have been met peacefully has made it so much more obviously visible that there is horrific institutionalised racism throughout the US policing system - that the police can use the pandemic situation in a wide range of ways to exert coercive control, via using it as an excuse to break up gatherings, via punitively removing access to testing and healthcare, and via exploiting peoples' fear of it to keep them from gathering in as large numbers as they might otherwise. On both sides, the pandemic has exacerbated the usual inequalities. I'm not remotely surprised it's happening now. I'd honestly be entirely unsurprised to find this being the start of another US civil war, and I honestly don't think that would be the wrong decision on the part of the protestors, save for the fact that the force imbalance is so absurdly severe that it would be a ridiculously uphill struggle. Things like the George Floyd killing happen literally every day in the USA. E: holy poo poo that's certainly a way to start a page. 175 days ago was 8 December 2019, just 4 days before the general election. It has been half a drat year since then holy poo poo.
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 19:42 |
|
|
Guavanaut posted:gently caress's sake elements of the far right are trying to claim Aloha shirts now. They can sod off. I have two 'hawaiian' shirts - I did try to palm them off on a brother last year because they need ironing, but have now resorted to wearing them (creased but not too badly, washed them and stretched them out on the line to dry so not too bad) as they're a bit cooler in this heat than a t-shirt.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:04
|
|
|
When it happens here they won't know about it until two weeks later when the deaths start going through the roof.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:05
|
|
|
Gonzo McFee posted:https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1266316665517740034?s=19 79 new cases meanwhile we've had 4 times the number of deaths of that the last 4 days in a row
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:10
|
|
|
its no surprise that the US is rioting now when a huge amoutn of people have run out of money and already have no way to pay for healthcare so the 2 big consequences of rioting stop being an issue its going to kick off again in august when people fully run out of money and can't afford food
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:11
|
|
|
Matt Damon really picked the wrong time to fly back to the USA.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:22
|
|
|
Jose posted:79 new cases meanwhile we've had 4 times the number of deaths of that the last 4 days in a row Oh god. This isn't going to end well.  Apparently the police bodycams had audio: quote:In the CBS interview, lawyer Benjamin Crump also said "we now have the audio from the police bodycam and we hear where one officer says 'he doesn't have a pulse, maybe we should turn him on his side', but yet officer Chauvin says 'no, we're going to keep him in this position'. That's intent." Prince John fucked around with this message at 19:25 on May 31, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:23
|
|
|
I wonder if they might actually try to sacrifice the cop to appease the protestors. Course then they're going against the rest of the cops and whether they would rather just start shooting people en masse.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:24
|
|
|
Prince John posted:Oh god. This isn't going to end well. they were almost certainly kicking the poo poo out of him before hand inside the police car based on how its moving in the video but you can't see inside. bet those body cams are interesting
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:29
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:At least some of the motive behind this right now IS the pandemic situation, for a number of reasons: You're absolutely right, it's just mass gatherings to protest and general civil unrest are going to make the virus spread so much faster. It's like watching a slow motion car crash, you can see what's coming and it's horrific. Part of me does wonders how many US cops would refuse to fire live rounds on protesters if instructed to, and what I suspect is the answer depresses me. Jose posted:they were almost certainly kicking the poo poo out of him before hand inside the police car based on how its moving in the video but you can't see inside. bet those body cams are interesting There was a good video posted a few pages back of an expert who "reviews" police killings to try and explain what went wrong (poor training, fear reaction, tunnel vision etc.), and his conclusion is he can't explain this one. He stopped short of calling it deliberate murder, but all he could say was that we are missing a vital piece of information and it was likely an issue personal to the officer involved. jabby fucked around with this message at 19:34 on May 31, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:30
|
|
|
MonkeyLibFront posted:Genuinely like to know about the General, as an organisation we are supposed to be openly apolitical, tbh we had forums about brexit with the general consensus within the sqn being to vote remain. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-army-could-stage-mutiny-under-corbyn-says-senior-serving-general-10509742.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/09/could-army-coup-remove-jeremy-corbyn-just-almost-toppled-harold/ quote:Only one week after Jeremy Corbyn’s election as Labour leader, a serving general of the Army warned of a direct and public challenge if a future Prime Minister Corbyn jeopardised the country’s security: "The army wouldn’t stand for it... people would use whatever means possible, fair or foul to prevent that." https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jan/25/corbyn-trident-military-revolt-unfriendly-fire quote:On the Arrse website, contributors were typically blunt about what they thought the general meant. “This senior officer is talking about a coup,” wrote one. “Whats[sic] wrong with a Coup if the Generals are loyal to the Crown?” asked another. “Let her decide who runs the country?”
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:32
|
|
|
jabby posted:Ronya does have a point about Corbyn. He got a significant pass on issues of triangulation on account of his past record. Campaigning against scrapping the surcharge for NHS workers, fine, commendable, but would it have been better to completely remove the surcharge during a pandemic where people unable to go to go to the doctor/hospital because they can't afford the surcharge, don't get diagnosed and potentially spread the virus? Yes, & even if he couldn't do that bold move, why not campaign to remove it for any "essential" workers at least, like care workers who look after the elderly & poo poo like that? I gave Corbyn a pass because Corbyn had a long career where his track record is transparently "poo poo I can get behind". He had a cabinet with lots of people you could also say that about. Keir Starmer does not on either front. When Keir Starmer talks triangulation I believe it is because that's ultimately where Keir's politics lie. Corbyn has a record of being on the right side of history an awful lot so moderating that with triangulation rhetoric is reasonable even if far from ideal. Keir Starmer does not. Triangulating from a position of democratic socialism to social democracy would've still pushed this post-Thatcher nation to the left a mite. Triangulating from Keir's woolly liberalism to more liberalism does not. And Corbyn is already about as far right a politician as I'm willing to support.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:33
|
|
|
Anyone else finding there is just too much going on in the news at the moment. Hard to keep up with the spiral atm
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:34
|
|
|
jabby posted:You're absolutely right, it's just mass gatherings to protest and general civil unrest are going to make the virus spread so much faster. It's like watching a slow motion car crash, you can see what's coming and it's horrific. If it helps, the Independent Sage chap whose modelling has apparently been pretty accurate doesn't seem too worried about whether we ease lockdown at the wrong rate: quote:How well have your predictions been borne out in this first wave of infections?
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:35
|
|
|
jabby posted:You're absolutely right, it's just mass gatherings to protest and general civil unrest are going to make the virus spread so much faster. It's like watching a slow motion car crash, you can see what's coming and it's horrific. like in france the cops are deliberately blinding protesters by shooting tear gas/rubber bullets/tracer rounds at peoples faces
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:35
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/szgoldner/status/1267156773405777920 "Police have also become more militarized. The Federal 1033 program, the Department of Justice’s “Cops Office,” and homeland security grants have channeled billions of dollars in military hardware into American police departments to advance their “war on crime” mentality. A whole generation of police officers have been given “warrior” training that teaches them to see every encounter with the public as potentially their last, leading to a hostile attitude towards those policed and the unnecessary killing of people falsely considered a threat, such as the 12-year-old Tamir Rice, killed for holding a toy gun in an Ohio park"
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:38
|
|
|
jabby posted:Part of me does wonders how many US cops would refuse to fire live rounds on protesters if instructed to, and what I suspect is the answer depresses me. Rubber bullets are live rounds. Flashbangs are live rounds. Gas grenades are live rounds. There are fash firing live rounds into the houses of entirely uninvolved people for the temerity to be sat on their porch whilst protest happen elsewhere in the city.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:39
|
|
|
Tom Watson, John Bercow & Karie Murphy rejected for peerages: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tom-watson-peerage-bercow-corbyn-karie-murphy-lords-reject-a9540941.html (Rentatool article). quote:
And while ideally there not be a House of Lords - some other form of second chamber needs to be found - at the moment it is part of the law-making process and acts as a control on some of the most knee jerk or badly formatted legislation, and Labour needs a proportion of the representation.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:40
|
|
|
this is a real cop training video still used https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vix6-afHzMg
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:40
|
|
|
Jose posted:this is a real cop training video still used And weirdly the cops in it are far less belligerent than real life.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:43
|
|
|
forkboy84 posted:Campaigning against scrapping the surcharge for NHS workers, fine, commendable, but would it have been better to completely remove the surcharge during a pandemic where people unable to go to go to the doctor/hospital because they can't afford the surcharge, don't get diagnosed and potentially spread the virus? Yes, & even if he couldn't do that bold move, why not campaign to remove it for any "essential" workers at least, like care workers who look after the elderly & poo poo like that? I believe Labour's position is to scrap the surcharge altogether. The only reason his proposed amendment targeted it to NHS workers was because he knew Tories would be loathe to vote it down, whereas he thought they would easily vote down scrapping it for everyone. So playing politics, but it worked against a government with a big majority. I can understand the argument about Corbyn's track record, but I'm still waiting for the policy plaform (and staying in Labour to try and influence it). thespaceinvader posted:Rubber bullets are live rounds. You know what I mean. And yes, the videos do worry me that a majority of police would not have trouble killing their fellow citizens if instructed to (or simply given liberty to). jabby fucked around with this message at 19:48 on May 31, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:44
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:Rubber bullets are live rounds. I don't know how many people are aware that rubber bullets are often rubber-coated steel bullets. I wasn't aware until a few years ago. Also didn't know that apparently the British invented them to use in The Troubles.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:45
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:What's all this stuff on twitter about anonymous leaking a bunch of documents what definitely proves the queen done murdered are diana cos she found out about noncing? Someone posted up a load of stuff from the Steele dossier and assorted other conspiracy theories about Trump with the serial numbers filed off and claimed that they had hacked all this info from somewhere, shitlibs all squealed with delight. I'd suspect Icke's lot but they have problems staying on-topic long enough to pull this sort of thing - it's almost certain there'll be a grift turn fairly soon then we'll be able to work out who's behind it.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:49
|
|
|
goddamnedtwisto posted:Someone posted up a load of stuff from the Steele dossier and assorted other conspiracy theories about Trump with the serial numbers filed off and claimed that they had hacked all this info from somewhere, shitlibs all squealed with delight. I'd suspect Icke's lot but they have problems staying on-topic long enough to pull this sort of thing - it's almost certain there'll be a grift turn fairly soon then we'll be able to work out who's behind it. So it's just old stuff gaining traction because it's pointed at a useful target at a useful time?
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:50
|
|
|
jabby posted:You know what I mean. And yes, the videos do worry me that a majority of police would not have trouble killing their fellow citizens if instructed to (or simply given liberty to). I know what you mean, but it bears repeating, the difference between a rubber bullet and a regular bullet is almost nothing. Rubber bullets aren't kind nice soft things. Heck, even beanbag rounds aren't kind nice soft things and they're both much less lethal than rubber bullets, and still live loving rounds. Rubber bullets loving kill people. Tear gas grenades are illegal under the loving geneva convention. You don't have to ask how many cops in the US would fire live rounds into innocent people because they're on the loving news firing them at the loving newscasters. Not to mention that the number of police in the US that would kill their fellow citizens is evidently high. Because they do it. A lot. One of those occasions caused this loving uprising. Splitting hairs because they're not literally shooting metal-coated metal bullets into crowds that we know of yet, is ducking the seriousness of the problems with the US's policing system. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 19:54 on May 31, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:51
|
|
|
Prince John posted:If it helps, the Independent Sage chap whose modelling has apparently been pretty accurate doesn't seem too worried about whether we ease lockdown at the wrong rate: I'm going to heavily preface this with disclaimers about my medical and epidemiological knowledge being entirely wikipedia-based, but that line about the common cold seems particularly weird because the common cold is caused by any one of half a dozen entire different classes of virus, let alone individual strains. We probably do develop lasting immunity to a particular cold that's going around, it's just another one comes along that we're not immune to. Also even the highest estimates say ~15% infection in London and ~5% in most of the rest of the country, which seems like nowhere near enough for herd immunity to have any meaningful imact. However, I will say that the majority of cases so far will have been in people at highest risk of catching and spreading the disease (especially cases contracted after social distancing started) - medical staff, retail workers, bus drivers, etc - which would probably flatten the transmission rate a *bit* even if we removed all social distancing now, as those people will have been effectively super-spreaders and now are not.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:58
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:So it's just old stuff gaining traction because it's pointed at a useful target at a useful time? I can't be bothered digging into it but it has the same feeling as a lot of the astroturfed RW theories, with deliberate attempts to make it trend. Somebody's definitely put a bit of effort into it just for it to break through the amount of other stuff that's going on at the minute.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 19:59
|
|
|
goddamnedtwisto posted:I can't be bothered digging into it but it has the same feeling as a lot of the astroturfed RW theories, with deliberate attempts to make it trend. I mean I also don't want to bother dredging through it but stuff about the epstein book and that I thought was old stuff and was surprised it was suddenly trending.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 20:00
|
|
|
Jose posted:this is a real cop training video still used Pretty insane that all of this was found concealed on a person when they reached the custody suite after they were already searched on the street. 
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 20:09
|
|
|
There's two wildly different ways that can happen.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 20:13
|
|
|
Prince John posted:If it helps, the Independent Sage chap whose modelling has apparently been pretty accurate doesn't seem too worried about whether we ease lockdown at the wrong rate: Interesting that he thinks Germans are just naturally immune to a brand new virus. How the gently caress did they luck out like that and can we harvest them for their blood?
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 20:17
|
|
|
The Minnesota police bias training involved sitting them down to watch Zootopia https://theweek.com/speedreads/917105/st-paul-police-once-used-disneys-zootopia-part-annual-antibias-training
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 20:26
|
|
|
goddamnedtwisto posted:I can't be bothered digging into it but it has the same feeling as a lot of the astroturfed RW theories, with deliberate attempts to make it trend. Somebody's definitely put a bit of effort into it just for it to break through the amount of other stuff that's going on at the minute. I checked the epstein thread because a friend just asked me about the jane doe v epstein/trump document and it's a group claiming these nasty pedos have "compromised" five eyes so it's definitely not being done by anyone with an interest in truth or justice, say
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 20:32
|
|
|
jabby posted:There was a good video posted a few pages back of an expert who "reviews" police killings to try and explain what went wrong (poor training, fear reaction, tunnel vision etc.), and his conclusion is he can't explain this one. He stopped short of calling it deliberate murder, but all he could say was that we are missing a vital piece of information and it was likely an issue personal to the officer involved. Ego, impunity, and recklessness. A lot of US policing culture encourages officers to have wildly inflated egos about "don't disrespect the badge" and "we've got to maintain our authority", where the definition of "disrespect" ends up being "doing anything other than saying yes sir no sir three bags full sir", and "authority" means being able to force people to say "yes sir no sir three bags full sir" on (literally) pain of death. Combine that with baked-in system flaws that discourage accountability and encourage circling the wagons when someone notices what's going on, and you get to a lot of officers with these inflated, fragile egos that can't stand being challenged in the slightest, and who think it's completely fine to splat people on the ground for talking back and then hold them in painful positions to punish them for their "disrespect", and aren't worried about seeing any kind of consequences for their actions. This is also the quality that leads to one of the officers saying a few different variants of "shouldn't we move him off his front?", and the guy on his neck going "nope", and the matter just ending there. That particular wrinkle reminds me of nothing so much as the rash of planes falling out of the sky in the 1970s that led to the widespread adoption of pilots being trained to use Crew Resource Management; before then, the captain of a flight was God and usually had an ego to match.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 20:49
|
|
|
Jaeluni Asjil posted:Tom Watson, John Bercow & Karie Murphy rejected for peerages: It does. WHich is why it's probably no bad thing that Tom loving Watson isn't going to be there.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 20:57
|
|
|
Good tweet to remind people what ACAB actually means: https://twitter.com/sable_sonya/status/1267095360369033225?s=19
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 20:59
|
|
|
Jaeluni Asjil posted:Tom Watson, John Bercow & Karie Murphy rejected for peerages: interesting re Bercow that the Observer stated the opposite. he was rejected for now because of the ongoing bullying investigation. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/30/john-bercow-will-not-get-peerage-despite-corbyn-nomination oh to have a system involving some transparency in the decision making instead of relying on contradictory anonymous briefings. quote:However, The Sunday Times reported that Mr Corbyn had been informed about the commission’s decisions and was offered the chance to make substitute nominations. I've learned something today. Didn't realise they would allow subs. But it makes sense to prevent allegations that the vetting committee is being biassed to upset the party makeup of the Lords.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 21:02
|
|
|
To update on my issue at work with the bogus Performance Improvement Procedure (abbreviated to PIP but that stands for something else the thread might talk about so I'll avoid it) I got a call from my Unite rep who helped out a lot, I'm basically awaiting a copy of the company policy on performance to forward to him and am not signing the PIP agreement. I mean, I got a project and then they withdrew because of COVID, so pretty clearly my performance isn't the issue. Didn't enjoy catchups with my line manager to begin with, so not a big deal there.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 21:08
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:I have yet to see a single shielding person who has not said 'gently caress this I'm continuing to stay at home' if they're able, but a lot will not be able, especially as the food package programme is stopping too, or so I understand. Yeah I'm shielding, as are a few friends and all of us are ignoring this new "guidance". Luckily I'm working from home, but not everyone can do that and this feels like the first step to taking away the protection we had. Jenny Harries came out with some of the worst bollocks I've heard yet during this debacle, that people being cold called by track and tracers would know they weren't scammers by how professional they will sound. What planet do these people live on? Lungboy fucked around with this message at 21:33 on May 31, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 21:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 19:42 |
|
|
Spangly A posted:I checked the epstein thread because a friend just asked me about the jane doe v epstein/trump document and it's a group claiming these nasty pedos have "compromised" five eyes yeah 5 eyes has been pedos from the start lol
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2020 21:29
|
|