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orcane posted:This only really applies if you randomly put high power draw components together in a SFF build and run them at OC defaults. I am busy forcing a 3900X and an RTX 2080 Ti into a Dan Case A4-SFX. I'm going to be doing some careful tightrope walking to get it to reasonable thermals to minimize performance loss due to overheating.
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Jun 1, 2020 20:23
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Sagacity posted:Yes, that does make sense, of course. It just feels like a waste somehow to have a huge ugly case (relatively speaking) when I'm not going to use any of the expansion capabilities. Consider the extra case space not for expansion but quite literally to hold air. And fans.
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Jun 1, 2020 20:27
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That's not very hard. Set the long term power limit accordingly and don't enable any OC options  Your build shouldn't overheat/throttle in the first place, people put CPUs with similar power consumption (i7 8700k/9900k, Ryzen 2700X) into that case. With GTX 1080 Ti and RTX 2080 Ti, too. It definitely is a question of how much you tolerate your fans going full speed, though, and how much it bothers you that Joe User puts the same stuff into a huge case with a $30 air cooler and goes 5-10% faster because he can keep all the fancy options like MCE, PBO etc. on, and TDP limits off. orcane fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jun 1, 2020 |
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Jun 1, 2020 20:31
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Subjunctive posted:More like this, with traditional antennas but nowhere obvious to put them. If you don't mind waiting for a shipment from Shenzhen, a quick google search brought this up. I'm sure you can dig further for something in stock that won't have to clear customs. Or you can order that and just run the antenna cable through the empty PCI slot and tape the antenna to the wall or something else close by, take a picture of the jank, and we'll share a laugh.
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Jun 1, 2020 20:32
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My brain is stuck between choosing the Fractal Define R6 and the Meshify S2. Basically torn between choosing the quieter case vs the one with better airflow, especially since with better airflow the fans should run slower to somewhat make up for any difference in noise dampening. However the nosiest thing in my case is going to be the video card anyway, and I assume the Meshify would let more noise from that out. Part of the problem is I have no concrete idea how much louder the Meshify S2 is than the R6, or my current Silverstone FT01 case. Don't really have a way to listen to them all right now. The minor difference in front panel connectors doesn't matter and the prices look essentially identical.
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Jun 1, 2020 20:32
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Some Goon posted:Consider the extra case space not for expansion but quite literally to hold air. And fans.
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Jun 1, 2020 20:40
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Boxman posted:If you don't mind waiting for a shipment from Shenzhen, a quick google search brought this up. I'm sure you can dig further for something in stock that won't have to clear customs. Or you can order that and just run the antenna cable through the empty PCI slot and tape the antenna to the wall or something else close by, take a picture of the jank, and we'll share a laugh. Now that I’m looking at the right I/O shield, it has 3 holes designed for those antennas to screw into them! They thought of this! Too bad I already started processing the return and ordered a new PCI wifi card, but I’ll know for later.
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Jun 1, 2020 21:24
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sean10mm posted:My brain is stuck between choosing the Fractal Define R6 and the Meshify S2. Basically torn between choosing the quieter case vs the one with better airflow, especially since with better airflow the fans should run slower to somewhat make up for any difference in noise dampening. However the nosiest thing in my case is going to be the video card anyway, and I assume the Meshify would let more noise from that out. I have owned noise dampening cases before (stuff with foam lining) and the noise suppression effect for components inside under load is pretty insignificant. You are going to hear a Video Card or CPU fan going full tilt regardless of how much noise suppression a case has. I personally found their main benefit of these cases is blocking out noise during low power operation like web browsing or watching youtube/netflix and sending its noise profile to around the same level as regular background noise in your house/room. edit: I should clarify that these towers generally sit either on the desk or right beside my computer desk on the floor. Noise suppression cases might help even under high load situation if you can put them somewhere with a barrier between it and where you sit.
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Jun 1, 2020 21:57
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MikeC posted:I have owned noise dampening cases before (stuff with foam lining) and the noise suppression effect for components inside under load is pretty insignificant. You are going to hear a Video Card or CPU fan going full tilt regardless of how much noise suppression a case has. I personally found their main benefit of these cases is blocking out noise during low power operation like web browsing or watching youtube/netflix and sending its noise profile to around the same level as regular background noise in your house/room. Yeah, this would go on the floor next to my desk. Basically I'm kind of looking for the better compromise in terms of noise vs. cooling. Like I'll give up *some* sound if it's substantially cooler, or give up a little bit of cooling if it's noticeably less noisy, and I don't have a good feel for where these two sit as far as that goes. I also know none of this is really NECESSARY and I'm just being a fussy bitch becaue I like overthinking my PC builds (and then forgetting about it for the next 5 years.)
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Jun 1, 2020 22:08
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sean10mm posted:Yeah, this would go on the floor next to my desk. Basically I'm kind of looking for the better compromise in terms of noise vs. cooling. Like I'll give up *some* sound if it's substantially cooler, or give up a little bit of cooling if it's noticeably less noisy, and I don't have a good feel for where these two sit as far as that goes. When I think “small and quiet”, like Ryzen 9-NVIDIA x80-ITX-in-the-bedroom-and-running-overnight stuff, I think liquid cooling, maybe even a custom loop. There are cases that can accommodate two radiators, which you might be able to use for both CPU and GPU AIOs to avoid needing to go custom. My 3900/3x80/ITX plan revolves around a Sliger SV590 and liquid cooling, FWIW, and if I decide that’s too finicky to fit in terms of clearance, then it would be an mATX like the Cerberus or such. (Cerberus might let me do air, even.) Liquid cooling beyond AIOs, and possibly even then, is a hobby of its own, though...
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Jun 1, 2020 22:27
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Subjunctive posted:When I think “small and quiet”, like Ryzen 9-NVIDIA x80-ITX-in-the-bedroom-and-running-overnight stuff, I think liquid cooling, maybe even a custom loop. There are cases that can accommodate two radiators, which you might be able to use for both CPU and GPU AIOs to avoid needing to go custom. My 3900/3x80/ITX plan revolves around a Sliger SV590 and liquid cooling, FWIW, and if I decide that’s too finicky to fit in terms of clearance, then it would be an mATX like the Cerberus or such. (Cerberus might let me do air, even.) I think you have me mixed up with the other guy, I'm going for a big mid tower ATX with quiet-ish air cooling from bigass fans. 
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Jun 1, 2020 22:30
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So I'm doing a poo poo ton of video editing these days and I need to cheaply expand my computer's storage. Performance is kind of whatever, I just need the terabytes while avoiding quality issues. What kind of deals should I be looking for and are there are HDD brands to avoid? I'm Canadian also so hard to ship stuff across the border these days but I can do my own shopping.
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Jun 1, 2020 22:32
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sean10mm posted:I think you have me mixed up with the other guy, I'm going for a big mid tower ATX with quiet-ish air cooling from bigass fans. I...do. Apologies! High-volume, low-speed air is great if you have the space. I just learned that my GPU doesn’t quite fit into this case with the DH-15 in place, at least in the primary slot. I could have sworn PCPP said it was all compatible, but I looked at so many different configs trying to get parts that were available... It has “Crossfire” support, so I’ll see how my perf is with the card in the other full-length slot until I get a different cooler, I guess? What silliness.
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Jun 1, 2020 22:37
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sean10mm posted:Yeah, this would go on the floor next to my desk. Basically I'm kind of looking for the better compromise in terms of noise vs. cooling. Like I'll give up *some* sound if it's substantially cooler, or give up a little bit of cooling if it's noticeably less noisy, and I don't have a good feel for where these two sit as far as that goes. Your best bet, imo, is find a mesh case that is wide and has good clearance for the GPU that also supports multiple 140mm fans natively and run aggressive fan curves. If you want you can buy those noise absorbent foam kits and cover the side panels with it. Would love to hear how effective/ineffective it is.
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Jun 1, 2020 22:55
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Why is the meshify case the case of choice for a lot of people here? Does it have the best airflow or something? Does it have a way of repelling dust the way my 750D airflow case does?
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Jun 1, 2020 23:13
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Kraftwerk posted:Why is the meshify case the case of choice for a lot of people here? Does it have the best airflow or something? Looks cool, no external drive bay, the internal bays are hidden out of the air path. I don't know if it's been tested to be superior to everything out there but it checks a lot of the right boxes.
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Jun 1, 2020 23:51
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sean10mm posted:Yeah, this would go on the floor next to my desk. Basically I'm kind of looking for the better compromise in terms of noise vs. cooling. Like I'll give up *some* sound if it's substantially cooler, or give up a little bit of cooling if it's noticeably less noisy, and I don't have a good feel for where these two sit as far as that goes. If you care about noise during load, like playing a game, you should go with a mesh case. Keeping the air inside the case cool means you get the most advantage of temp delta from the CPU and GPU to the air. That means the fans on CPU/GPU don't have to work as hard, and every fan in the system can be at a moderate and fairly quiet speed. Particularly if you lower the fan curves on the GPU and CPU (which are generally set to prefer lower temps because that reviews better). If your GPU is 75° rather than 60° it is totally fine. More delta = more efficiency from heatpipes and fins. If you care about noise at idle, the R6 or other noise damped cases can be near-silent and a mesh case can't. The result here is somewhat the opposite: slow case fans with a panel obstructing them aren't as efficient, so you sacrifice the ambient temp inside the case. While the CPU & GPU are idle this isn't a problem, good heatsinks can still handle the low watts easily despite less ambient delta. Brief loads (opening a program etc) are also fine. But sustained loads require the case fans to ramp up and work harder than they would in a mesh. MikeC posted:Your best bet, imo, is find a mesh case that is wide and has good clearance for the GPU that also supports multiple 140mm fans natively and run aggressive fan curves. If you want you can buy those noise absorbent foam kits and cover the side panels with it. Would love to hear how effective/ineffective it is. I don't see how noise damping the sides of a mesh case will do anything when the mesh front allows sound out unimpeded. Unless you did something crazy like build an oversize shell that encloses the front while still allowing a wide air path. e: xzzy posted:Looks cool, no external drive bay, the internal bays are hidden out of the air path. I don't think there's a lot of variation in performance between mesh-front cases. Mostly I think the meshify is widely available for a reasonable price. The Phanteks P400A is a good competitor -- it's cheaper and comes with 1 more fan -- but I think Phanteks is a smaller company that has a harder time keeping it in stock. And the cooler master H500 is a lot more expensive. Klyith fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Jun 2, 2020 |
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Jun 1, 2020 23:55
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[Quote PCPartPicker Part List CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor ($274.49 @ Amazon) Motherboard: ASRock B450M PRO4 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($83.99 @ Newegg) Memory: G.Skill Aegis 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($229.99 @ Newegg) Storage: TCSunBow X3 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($92.99 @ Amazon) Storage: Seagate Barracuda Compute 2 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($54.99 @ Newegg) Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8 GB XC ULTRA GAMING Video Card ($647.82 @ Amazon) Case: Fractal Design Meshify C ATX Mid Tower Case ($99.98 @ Newegg) Case Fan: ARCTIC F12 PWM PST 53 CFM 120 mm Fan Case Fan: ARCTIC F12 PWM PST 53 CFM 120 mm Fan Custom: Segotep GP-G 650w ($80.00) Total: $1564.25 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-06-02 01:48 EDT-0400 [/Quote]] I need a PSU. I have everything else ordered but I’m lost on a good PSU and lots of recommendations are out of stock. Also not sure if I need 550 or 650.
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Jun 2, 2020 06:51
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Klyith posted:Huh, I guess there is a standard of static pressure in inches or mm of water. I've never seen that on store pages for fans though, and it looks like it's also a thing where you have to calibrate against fan RPM -- a 2000 RPM fan weak static pressure can have the same number as a 1200RPM fan with good static pressure. I looked up what you suggested and they actually don't have high SP, even though that's their brand. Corsair seems to have 3.0mm SP fans in their "LL" series, and next in line is their "HD" series at 2.25mm. They actually seem pretty acceptable even though the LL is 1.5mm? less SP than Corsair's claimed fans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb7n_b39F78 The "SP" series actually is barely better than the fans I listed at 1.46mm~ or so. I'm rather confused why corsair rated these fans so highly but then doesn't sell equivalent replacements. Was trying to find an inexpensive set of white (not blue, not red, white) LED fans, and I guess either what it comes down to is I need to just replace the fans with these ones and see how it goes, or pay $130 for three LL120 fans, which is just unacceptably too expensive. I paid $17.95 for these fans and that was about the limit I'd pay for 3 led fans. 
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Jun 2, 2020 13:31
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I'm having a little issue with powering the fans in my case. My case came with 4x 4pin fans, 3 front fan and a rear exhaust but my board only has enough headers for the cpu, 1 4pin chassis fan and 1 3pin chassis fan. At the moment I can only power one front fan, so my question is should I bother with trying to find a fan hub to connect the 4 fans to the single 4pin header or should I just get adapters to connect them directly to sata power?
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Jun 3, 2020 00:33
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Well gently caress. I built the new PC yesterday, got Windows installed, everything seemed fine with RAM running at 3600 and so forth. Left it to sleep overnight and this morning it won’t start. When I press the power button, I get a quick hit of light from the video card and the CPU and GPU fans turn a little, and then it stops. If I hold the button it repeats that over and over in little bursts. The CPU and DRAM lights are lit on the motherboard (even with power disconnected). - ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming 4 - Ryzen 3900 - 2x 16GB G.Skill Ripjaws V 3600 - MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8 GB GAMING X 8G - WD Black SN750 1TB SSD - EVGA 1000W PSU The PSU and GPU were happily in use in the previous build. I can dig up another PSU to test on, later today. Reading the web it sounds like a number of people have had defective motherboards of this type, but they seem to never get it to post in the first place. Mine was an open box at a time that the store is only taking returns on defective parts, which are dots that I didn’t previously connect, alas. Any ideas for what I should try before I do the return dance? Bleh.
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Jun 3, 2020 14:37
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Subjunctive posted:Well gently caress. That sounds like vaguely like short circuit protection. Might not be, of course, and it's always impossible to know exactly what it is without taking a good look at it. Before you put another PSU in it, try doing the good ol' basic steps like re-seating the GPU, only having one stick of RAM, reset the CMOS, etc. Doesn't hurt to have a good look over and check if there could possibly be anything shorting out, and double check that all the cables are firmly seated. If none of that poo poo works, it's definitely time to try another PSU.
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Jun 3, 2020 14:59
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Subjunctive posted:Well gently caress. I would try clearing the CMOS/BIOS first. The jumper should be around the USB2 headers on that board, if that helps.
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Jun 3, 2020 15:03
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HalloKitty posted:That sounds like vaguely like short circuit protection. Might not be, of course, and it's always impossible to know exactly what it is without taking a good look at it. Before you put another PSU in it, try doing the good ol' basic steps like re-seating the GPU, only having one stick of RAM, reset the CMOS, etc. Doesn't hurt to have a good look over and check if there could possibly be anything shorting out, and double check that all the cables are firmly seated. Taking the RAM out involves removing the cooler, at which point I can also try another CPU I have here, I guess. I thought I was being smart not putting it all into place until I knew it booted properly, but noooooo. Thanks for the advice!
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Jun 3, 2020 15:05
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Hi all just a quick question. I just installed a ryzen 3600 with the stock cooler. I have a matx case with two case fans. Even in balanced mode when I stress the cpu with cpu z or play a game for a while I can regularly reach Temps of over 80c sometimes over 90! I'm using asroc steel legend mobo and software to monitor Temps. Case fans are on 100 percent. Is this abnormal? I cleaned the filters and fans when I rebuilt to computer so I don't think it's air flow. Did I mount it wrong? Should I grab a fan for the top of the case to blow out or get a new cpu cooler? Any recommendations? I don't care about rgb and don't want water cooling. Edit: case is a cooler master n200 and supports 120mm fans Zig-Zag fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jun 3, 2020 |
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Jun 3, 2020 15:40
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Zig-Zag posted:Hi all just a quick question. I just installed a ryzen 3600 with the stick cooler. I have a matx case with two case fans. Even in performance mode when I stress the cpu with cpu z or play a game for a while I can regularly reach Temps of over 80c sometimes over 90! I'm using asroc steel legend mobo and software to monitor Temps. Case fans are on 100 percent. Over 90c seems extremely high for just playing games. Are you also in a hot/humid room? It could be that software is wrong as well. Try something like: https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html And see if you are getting the same readings. If it's still showing 90+ at points, I would try re-mounting with fresh thermal paste. Air cooling is absolutely perfectly fine these days. If it's *STILL* showing those high temps, maybe think about an aftermarket air cooler.
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Jun 3, 2020 15:46
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Thom P. Tiers posted:Over 90c seems extremely high for just playing games. Are you also in a hot/humid room? It could be that software is wrong as well. Try something like: I've seen mixed reviews on the stock cooler, but usually people only approach 90 when running CPU killing benchmarks or something. A lot of complaints about it being loud and hot, but not THAT hot.
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Jun 3, 2020 16:30
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Subjunctive posted:Taking the RAM out involves removing the cooler, at which point I can also try another CPU I have here, I guess. I thought I was being smart not putting it all into place until I knew it booted properly, but noooooo. I must say, that is a royal pain.. and you did the right thing, because it did work properly yesterday... 
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Jun 3, 2020 16:44
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HalloKitty posted:I must say, that is a royal pain.. and you did the right thing, because it did work properly yesterday... Well, the old remove-and-reseat of everything but CPU/RAM seems to have worked! I had been really reaching to get one of the power plugs in past the cooler, so it might not have been solid? Let’s hope it holds!
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Jun 3, 2020 17:36
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I have a family member that's considering getting into 3D modelling or animation (talented artist whose fine art degree hasn't paid many dividends). This is still preliminary, but is there anything specific to look out for? Like a particular class of graphics card? PC probably advisable over a Mac? Budget is not unlimited, if that matters.
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Jun 3, 2020 18:22
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drat it, stock situation in Canada is poo poo, especially because I want a mobo with wifi/BT. A nice Seasonic PSU also went out of stock overnight while I was mulling over things.
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Jun 3, 2020 18:36
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Subjunctive posted:Well, the old remove-and-reseat of everything but CPU/RAM seems to have worked! I had been really reaching to get one of the power plugs in past the cooler, so it might not have been solid? Let’s hope it holds! Hmm. After it went to sleep it did it again: won’t wake, and won’t power up except for little bursts. Reseating everything would probably take it out of “sleep” state, so maybe that’s the core of the issue. I had sleep-related problems with the previous build using this PSU/GPU/case, so maybe one of those components is at fault (seems most likely to be PSU to me)? The other thing is that when it was working again, it was on its side. I’ll leave it on its side this time and see if that is related somehow? I’ll turn off sleep states in the BIOS and see what I can figure out. Very weird. E: removing the video card causes it to boot as far as a GPU error, and then keep rebooting, so hmm. would having my moderately-beef video card in the secondary PCI slot possibly have this effect? it doesn't fit in the primary one with the cooler I currently have, but since the motherboard is rated for crossfire I figured it would be OK. Do 4-lane and 16-lane PCI slots have different power properties? Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jun 3, 2020 |
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Jun 3, 2020 19:08
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Rinkles posted:I have a family member that's considering getting into 3D modelling or animation (talented artist whose fine art degree hasn't paid many dividends). This is still preliminary, but is there anything specific to look out for? Like a particular class of graphics card? Until you get into high-end professional stuff the GPU can be anything modern -- Blender uses standard graphics apis and afaik doesn't need stuff that's restricted to Quadros or the AMD pro cards. A basic 1660 or 580, or just a secondhand 1060, is totally capable of doing the viewport acceleration for the type of projects that someone learning how to use it would be doing. Starting out you're not going to jump immediately into photoreal 4k textures and billion triangle models. 3600, 16GB of ram, modest video card is a low enough investment for learning, but will be decent for assembling a portfolio for job applications if they go that far. (The 3600 in particular is pretty amazing when you consider that a 6c/12t CPU was a workstation grade item just a few years ago.)
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Jun 3, 2020 19:22
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Klyith posted:Until you get into high-end professional stuff the GPU can be anything modern -- Blender uses standard graphics apis and afaik doesn't need stuff that's restricted to Quadros or the AMD pro cards. A basic 1660 or 580, or just a secondhand 1060, is totally capable of doing the viewport acceleration for the type of projects that someone learning how to use it would be doing. Starting out you're not going to jump immediately into photoreal 4k textures and billion triangle models. That's what I thought, thank you.
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Jun 3, 2020 19:30
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Subjunctive posted:E: removing the video card causes it to boot as far as a GPU error, and then keep rebooting, so hmm. would having my moderately-beef video card in the secondary PCI slot possibly have this effect? it doesn't fit in the primary one with the cooler I currently have, but since the motherboard is rated for crossfire I figured it would be OK. Do 4-lane and 16-lane PCI slots have different power properties? Uh, on that mobo the 2nd 16x slot is a 4x that's connected through the chipset, not directly to the CPU. And I could definitely see that being the problem. Most X570s have 2 PCIe x16 slots that are shared. When just the top one is in use all 16 lanes go to it, and when the second slot is used there's a PCIe bridge chip on the mobo that splits them x8/x8. So less bandwidth but still a direct CPU link. Asrock isn't doing that for that mobo because those bridge chips are expensive. Can you rotate the cooler 90 degrees to make it fit? e: fuckin asrock Klyith fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jun 3, 2020 |
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Jun 3, 2020 19:31
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I don't think I can rotate the NH-D15, alas. Ugh. What a mess. Maybe I'll get a different motherboard, if ASRock are assholes. What would you recommend? Would like dual M.2, wifi would be nice, 64GB max over 4 slots. Though I definitely need a different cooler, so maybe I'll start there: what would you recommend for quiet air cooling of a PBO-only 3900X with decent case flow? (PCPP doesn't flag the incompatibility between the motherboard and the cooler, but then it doesn't flag any incompatibility between the cooler and the case, and the cooler is too big for the side panel to go on, so I may have been expecting too much.)
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Jun 3, 2020 20:15
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Subjunctive posted:I don't think I can rotate the NH-D15, alas. The NH-D15S fixes the problem of the top-slot being blocked. I always recommend the NH-D15S, not the plain NH-D15, for that reason. Maybe you can flip the NH-D15 and pick up the S version. Just an idea. Edit: crap, I saw that you have a problem with the height of it hitting the side of the case. Forget my suggestion, it won't help with that..
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Jun 3, 2020 20:25
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HalloKitty posted:The NH-D15S fixes the problem of the top-slot being blocked. I always recommend the NH-D15S, not the plain NH-D15, for that reason. Maybe you can flip the NH-D15 and pick up the S version. Just an idea. Yeah, I checked out the D15S once I saw the problem, but it’s only half a solution. Honestly who makes a mid ATX case that won’t fit the best air cooler in the universe? Shameful.
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Jun 3, 2020 20:28
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Subjunctive posted:What would you recommend? Would like dual M.2, wifi would be nice, 64GB max over 4 slots. All of gigabyte's X570s are good, the Gaming X is my recommended sub-$200 X570. quote:Though I definitely need a different cooler, so maybe I'll start there: what would you recommend for quiet air cooling of a PBO-only 3900X with decent case flow? You won't need a different cooler if you go with a board that puts the first PCIe slot lower, like the gigabyte ones and most other X570s which put an nvme slot between the CPU & GPU. It's only an issue with boards that have the GPU in the slot 1 position. (Also for anything but the Asrocks like yours, using the 2nd slot in x8 mode is fine.) I don't think PCpartpicker will flag for dimensions, other than the very basic "don't buy a mATX case for an ATX mobo" one. I've never seen them say anything about GPU length in small cases. e: Subjunctive posted:Honestly who makes a mid ATX case that won’t fit the best air cooler in the universe? Shameful. edit 2: no wait you got a bequiet 600, not a Slinger Cerperus If you need a lower height cooler, the bequiet dark rock 4 might be the best bet. Or a scythe mugen with a 2nd fan. Klyith fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Jun 3, 2020 |
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Jun 3, 2020 20:42
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Klyith posted:For those requirements, I'd say the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite Wifi. If you want something that's in stock so you can buy it now, the non-wifi Aorus Elite is in stock now. Ah, and the non-wifi one is even in stock in Canada! I’ll need another cooler if I want to close my case, but I’m not as immediately concerned about that given how quiet everything seems to run. Being able to use sleep is more significant to me. Thanks very much for your help, and HalloKitty too!
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Jun 3, 2020 20:46
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