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Seemed to me it was because people kept bringing up Games Workshop, which makes a certain percentage of their fans very upset.
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Jun 5, 2020 21:50
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it should have been closed when people started talking about how military equipment was good and if you didn't like the f35 you're the real fascist
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Jun 5, 2020 22:01
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Goons and keeping lists are not a good combination, it turns out. The thread should have been closed when a mod started yelling at a trans person for not giving them sufficient deference
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Jun 5, 2020 22:05
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thetoughestbean posted:Goons and keeping lists are not a good combination, it turns out. Hey. As the trans person in question, Beer did the work to sort that out. I spoke with him both publically and privately, and he actually did the work to apologize and learn how to do better. That was not the issue.
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Jun 5, 2020 22:07
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Arivia posted:Hey. As the trans person in question, Beer did the work to sort that out. I spoke with him both publically and privately, and he actually did the work to apologize and learn how to do better. That was not the issue. It definitely drove some people away, but Beer got caught for something much worse. Can't speak about it anymore though.
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Jun 5, 2020 22:16
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Lord_Hambrose posted:It definitely drove some people away, but Beer got caught for something much worse. Can't speak about it anymore though. Ah, yes, much better to just vaguepost about.
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Jun 5, 2020 22:21
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food court bailiff posted:Ah, yes, much better to just vaguepost about. Sorry, the Mods specifically want it silenced.
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Jun 5, 2020 22:29
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Arivia posted:Hey. As the trans person in question, Beer did the work to sort that out. I spoke with him both publically and privately, and he actually did the work to apologize and learn how to do better. That was not the issue. I apologize. Let’s not forget the reason it did get closed: the OP doxxed someone
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Jun 5, 2020 22:32
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Terrible Opinions posted:Personally I think a lot of Magic's problems recently have been a direct result of having the Gatewatch as their main characters. Instead of focusing on actual natives of each plane who are invested in the weird poo poo happening because its their home and directly affecting them, we're following a bunch of very generic super heroes who stumble into the problems in their planewalking. Oh, so it's all planeswalkers all the time now? That's too bad, I remember enjoying some of the Magic novels back in the day. I especially liked Mirrodin and Ravnica's fluff.
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Jun 5, 2020 22:57
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BattleMaster posted:It's a shame but a lot of people are into cyberpunk purely for stylistic reasons and miss any of the social and political messages behind it. That is, they probably want to live in a society like that, instead of being horrified at the possibility of the world turning out like that. There's a lot of people you could apply this description to, but probably not Bruce Sterling - primarily because his Mirrorshades anthology basically shaped the direction of early cyberpunk. He can't miss the point because he got a say in what the point was supposed to be in the first place.
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Jun 5, 2020 23:11
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LatwPIAT posted:There's a lot of people you could apply this description to, but probably not Bruce Sterling - primarily because his Mirrorshades anthology basically shaped the direction of early cyberpunk. He can't miss the point because he got a say in what the point was supposed to be in the first place. I believe it is actually possible for creators to not understand their own work (most often seen when they create sequels or other followups that seem to miss the point of the original), or at least to change from the people they were when they originally created something.
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Jun 5, 2020 23:14
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And for the purpose and point of a movement to shift in a way that causes originators and important figures of that movement to become counter to it.
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Jun 5, 2020 23:19
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LatwPIAT posted:There's a lot of people you could apply this description to, but probably not Bruce Sterling - primarily because his Mirrorshades anthology basically shaped the direction of early cyberpunk. He can't miss the point because he got a say in what the point was supposed to be in the first place. I think a lot of science fiction authors sort of see a future which they do not necessarily want to live in, but which they feel is inevitable as a projection out from current trends. Larry Niven still doesn't get why we aren't parting out condemned criminals for organ transplants on a wide scale.
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Jun 5, 2020 23:36
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Mr. Maltose posted:And for the purpose and point of a movement to shift in a way that causes originators and important figures of that movement to become counter to it. This may be a better way of putting the "didn't understand their own work" idea; maybe they fully understood what they were writing but didn't understand that many people took a different message from it or liked it for different reasons than intended.
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Jun 5, 2020 23:58
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DC Comics ended their relationship with Diamond Distribution, which had previously had an effective (and catastrophic) monopoly over mainstream comic distribution. Doesn't directly impact the games industry yet, but Alliance is the largest US games distributors and shares ownership (and some business practices) with Diamond. Asmodee, for example, infamously got bribed into an exclusive distribution contract with them to general frustration among LGSes. We can hope that this might contribute to a reversal of distributor monopolies.
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Jun 6, 2020 00:45
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Mors Rattus posted:She’s actually significantly better these days than she was back then, yeah. It’s a really impressive thing. Given the loveliness she crowbarred into some of the Central Casting stuff during her hellfire and brimstone phase, that's music to my ears.
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Jun 6, 2020 01:47
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Robert Facepalmer posted:And Tony Cottrell has been employed for decades... Sorry, I've lost track of all these people. Who is he and what did he do?
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Jun 6, 2020 02:28
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Agent Rush posted:Oh, so it's all planeswalkers all the time now? That's too bad, I remember enjoying some of the Magic novels back in the day. I especially liked Mirrodin and Ravnica's fluff. Yeah, they wanted to do sets on more planes than Dominaria, but discovered when the entire cast changes every block it is hard to get people to emotionally invest in any particular instance. So they moved to focusing on a core group of planeswalkers that could be major characters in any set’s story. But they didn’t really do enough work to make the lead characters interesting.
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Jun 6, 2020 03:12
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Comstar posted:Sorry, I've lost track of all these people. Who is he and what did he do? Tony Cottrell used to run Forge World for Games Workshop and now the Old World stuff. He's always been a bit of a pill but recently a black GW player called him out on being super racist: Goonhammer has the scoop.
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Jun 6, 2020 03:21
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garthoneeye posted:Yeah, they wanted to do sets on more planes than Dominaria, but discovered when the entire cast changes every block it is hard to get people to emotionally invest in any particular instance.
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Jun 6, 2020 03:23
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jun 6, 2020 03:30
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And then once they had firmly established their main cast they returned to Dominaria and introduced them to an entirely new roster of unique and quirky characters crewing the Weatherlight, a ship once notable for being able to planeswalk itself but now 100% planebound. There's just enough time for this diverse crew to learn to work together with each other (to assist the main characters) before the action shifts and leaves them behind, totally absent from the climax of the story in the next act. It felt like a backdoor pilot for a spinoff except there was no chance of it ever taking off.
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Jun 6, 2020 03:37
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I wonder if I should quote all the dumb posts I made in an unrelated TV thread about how I don't get how anyone could fundamentally get invested in a story for MtG. I'd read it. 
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Jun 6, 2020 03:40
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jun 6, 2020 03:44
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Usually the blocks that people got invested in tend to focus on getting you to identify with a team or culture rather than a specific individual. Like the guilds of Ravnica and clans on Tarkir. Same way people get invested in mmo factions. There is a big important event happening and here are people being impacted by it, you can sympathize with the aggregate of these people. Even during Weatherlight story the crew was mostly used as a unit. But you are correct that it is basically impossible to sympathize with the with current crop of superheroes with no connection to the peolpe being impacted by the event.
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Jun 6, 2020 03:52
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I think any game with a setting could benefit from having a story of sorts, because it helps guide the rest of the design. John Carmack famously said "Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important." I think Doom (1993) is a game where the story was important to the overall product. No, you wouldn't play Doom for the story. But the basic story of your character, as a member of a penal battalion based near Mars, being part of a response to a distress call from the UAC Phobos facility when their portal experiments went wrong, helped glue the whole thing together. All of the levels fit into that, all of the monsters and all of the weapons and other pickups fit into that somehow. It wasn't just a bunch of random poo poo glued together, it was a bunch of stuff that fit into a cohesive whole thanks to the story. Similarly I think Magic: The Gathering needs a story so that the cards in each set aren't just random things thrown together. But uh, playing it for the story? Does anyone do that? Playing it for the settings and themes makes more sense to me and I think they should play more into that. I personally liked it better when you had to, if you cared, piece together the story from the cards instead of there being a tie-in novel that spells things out. The Tempest block was kind of cool like that. If you arranged the cards in the right order you just about had a whole picture book in front of you.
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Jun 6, 2020 03:58
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I think that the way people read the Magic setting is more like, they read the books and short stories because there are little interesting bits in the card game and flavor, or they just know there's more content for the setting of a competitive card game they like. And then it establishes a loop, where you can see 'ah, this spell exists because it reflects this moment in the books' or 'oh, this is a monster from that place the characters went' and in general the books work like a framework the cards can exist within flavor-wise, which helps turn cards with no real mechanical flavor into something a bit more interesting. I mean, that's the ideal, and I think that's why what people used to care about are the planes themselves, the settings all their cards fit in and which can have specific mechanics. So Innistrad is the Gothic Horror Plane, and you can be into ghosts, vampires, werewolves, and the number 13 - as well as mechanics that reflect that plane. Because they let you build a deck that reflects those aesthetics, and therefore, allow you to express yourself; what I've seen of Innistrad says that I could build a Bloodborne deck using the Innistrad Get Invaded By Cthulhus block, if I knew how to build a Magic deck, and that's real fun. This is all outsider-looking-in kind of perspective, since I'm vaguely interested in MtG fluff when my friends explain it but I'm not invested in any of the specific characters or settings, except that the two that sounded coolest when I heard about them (Mirrodin and Kamigawa, though the latter just because I read some books set there when I was eating any fantasy novel I could find in high school and quite liked the first one). Unfortunately, the weirdest settings apparently often end up with the most janky mechanics. ...also unfortunately, the current Magic storylines are all about the Magic the Gathering Avengers, which is immensely boring and hugely undermines the importance of specific planes, as outlined above. The one that pissed me off was Amonkhet, the Ancient Egypt block, which turns out to be entirely about planeswalker metaplot and has basically nothing going on internally that's worth caring about. That sucks! An ancient Egypt high fantasy setting with a bunch of cool monsters and factions should be really cool and potentially interesting in a pulpy kind of way.
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Jun 6, 2020 04:05
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wizzardstaff posted:And then once they had firmly established their main cast they returned to Dominaria and introduced them to an entirely new roster of unique and quirky characters crewing the Weatherlight, a ship once notable for being able to planeswalk itself but now 100% planebound. There's just enough time for this diverse crew to learn to work together with each other (to assist the main characters) before the action shifts and leaves them behind, totally absent from the climax of the story in the next act. I still couldn’t give any shits about the Gatewatch or whatever the metaplot was. I think part of it was they got an established author to write it, so she was able to build character for the new people that made them interesting. But the planeswalkers were already fully established and the major plot points were probably set in stone to set ip the next part of their storyline so she didn’t have enough freedom to make that part compelling.
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Jun 6, 2020 04:22
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As bad as the Super Best Friends modern magic stories are, they used to be worse. Phil Foglio got in trouble for this comic because it was a leak of the upcoming storyline.
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Jun 6, 2020 04:44
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... he got in trouble for "incredibly broad generalizations based on the single word, 'Stronghold', he had to work with"?
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Jun 6, 2020 05:36
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Yeah, someone at WotC honestly thought one of their writers had leaked the plot to Phil.
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Jun 6, 2020 05:41
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BattleMaster posted:I believe it is actually possible for creators to not understand their own work (most often seen when they create sequels or other followups that seem to miss the point of the original), or at least to change from the people they were when they originally created something. This is true, but I think it's a bit of a thin conclusion to draw based on a single essay where Bruce Sterling is a little too positive about the police. Cyberpunk as a genre has never really had a well-formed criticism of police at its core, probably because it was largely written by and for privileged white dudes in the 80s and 90s.
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Jun 6, 2020 08:32
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I think you can craft an engaging narrative through a tcg. Yugioh’s done it a couple times, and I don’t mean the anime. They have a series of cards released that tell a story through the card art. The trick is that the art only shows snapshots of what’s happening and Konami doesn’t come out and say what the plot is until they’ve printed most of the cards. So, the engagement is figuring out what the story is in the first place. It’s a mystery and I’ve seen people have a lot of fun trying to put it together. It’s kind of like Dark Souls. A lot of people engage with the world and what tidbits of lore are given to them to try to figure out what the hell is going on and what happened to lead it to this point
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Jun 6, 2020 09:18
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Speaking of fash, Arch Warhammer is a well-known Nazi piece of poo poo who makes Warhammer lore videos and also advocates for genocide. The members of his Discord also fantasise about loving kids! If anyone were to want to report him to Patreon and Discord, cutting off his income and fanbase, that would be devastating. The links to make this easy are below. https://www.patreon.com/user?u=3863342 cite: https://twitter.com/KapnJono/status/1269020243831201796 https://mega.nz/folder/vUYwwIJZ#PqyYQZYPYZUJCjEgKfGMkg And to Discord here: https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=360000029731 https://discordapp.com/channels/493502127357034519/493635008481722369/715892447238029374 Server number: 493502127357034519
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Jun 6, 2020 09:45
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Dawgstar posted:Tony Cottrell used to run Forge World for Games Workshop and now the Old World stuff. He's always been a bit of a pill but recently a black GW player called him out on being super racist: Goonhammer has the scoop. Can someone explain it to me like I’m 5? I don’t get what everyone laughed about. Something about “your just Like the black guy from the end of Avengers!”. And then the whole room of white guys laughed at a racist joke. I don’t get it.
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Jun 6, 2020 10:25
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Comstar posted:Can someone explain it to me like I’m 5? I don’t get what everyone laughed about. Something about “your just Like the black guy from the end of Avengers!”. And then the whole room of white guys laughed at a racist joke. I don’t get it. "Ha ha I've actually told you you're dead but you're too dumb/not enough of a real nerd to realise I've actually insulted you! Hilarious!"
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Jun 6, 2020 13:10
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Corrode posted:Speaking of fash, Arch Warhammer is a well-known Nazi piece of poo poo who makes Warhammer lore videos and also advocates for genocide. The members of his Discord also fantasise about loving kids! I just tried to file a “Trust and Safety” report, and you need a specific message ID to do so. Other support categories don’t require this.
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Jun 6, 2020 13:48
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Green Intern posted:I just tried to file a “Trust and Safety” report, and you need a specific message ID to do so. Other support categories don’t require this. The second link in the Discord block is for a specific message. You can't open it unless you're part of the server but it gives Discord enough to start moving on.
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Jun 6, 2020 13:50
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Corrode posted:The second link in the Discord block is for a specific message. You can't open it unless you're part of the server but it gives Discord enough to start moving on. I’ll check again on my PC instead of my phone. Edit: There we go. Report submitted. Green Intern fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Jun 6, 2020 |
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Jun 6, 2020 13:58
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BattleMaster posted:John Carmack famously said "Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important." I think Carmack is confusing story for context. Doom '93 doesn't really have any story beyond the elevator pitch, but that's all the framework you need for an action game. Doom 3 added story elements (dialogue, cutscenes, back story) and it ended up being a (poorly recieved) tonal shift into survival-horror.
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Jun 6, 2020 14:03
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