|
On the other hand you would be obstructing the statue's new, better function as a marine sanctuary.
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 21:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 19:27 |
|
|
ThomasPaine posted:History isn't a thing abstracted from the present, tearing down a statue is a historical event in itself, destruction and creation are two sides of the same coin. Yeah, I said as much to a gammon on another forum. If anything the statue is more historically notable now than it was 24hrs ago - then it was just a controversial but uninteresting statue of a dead slave trader. Now it's The Statue That Was Pulled Down In The Protests Of June 2020. It has actual history in and of itself now, rather than merely commemorating a historical figure in an (at best) half-truthful way. They can fish it out of the harbour in its broken, rusty, graffiti-ed state, stick it in the M-Shed and perfectly encapsulate both Bristol's relationship with the slave trade and the city's heritage of radical politics and direct action. Nothing of value has been lost, but it has been created.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 21:08
|
|
|
Communist Thoughts posted:It'll galvanise the fash but theyr basically in power already so They've been galvansied since Brexit. At this stage gently caress it, the fash work on fear, tear down their idols. Make them not feel safe on the loving streets.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 21:14
|
|
|
BalloonFish posted:They can fish it out of the harbour in its broken, rusty, graffiti-ed state, stick it in the M-Shed and perfectly encapsulate both Bristol's relationship with the slave trade and the city's heritage of radical politics and direct action. That's actually a cracking idea tbh
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 21:15
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/JackRaoul/status/1269679255186800640?s=19
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 21:15
|
|
|
ThomasPaine posted:That's actually a cracking idea tbh And it'll be easy to wheel out and throw into the harbour again every year.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 21:17
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/DarrenEuronews/status/1269658257381097472?s=20
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 21:24
|
|
|
Not if the statue is held up by the word "accused" in that sentence. I think you'd need a crane to shift it in that case.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 21:29
|
|
|
I for one am proud of my city
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 21:35
|
|
|
cool thread on statues https://twitter.com/oldenoughtosay/status/1269649586152407040 ThomasPaine posted:Unfortunately this is exactly how many people seem to understand history and the British school system's approach to teaching it has generally encouraged that (bad) interpretation of the discipline, the Grate Britane Whig bullshit I was taught in school was tantamount to nationalist propaganda imho. By A-level it was a little better, and a couple of my teachers were really cool and tried to introduce more complexity, Although friends that sat next to me in GCSE classes were asking for unbiased sources about Brexit before the referendum though, so either they weren't paying attention or they assumed some had been invented in the interim. ThomasPaine posted:but the earlier stuff was just hot garbage that bore zero resemblance to the academic field. I guess the physical sciences are the closest to forming a logical step, because you're doing lab work and writing reports in a similar method to what you will later do, but the levels of expected data analysis are very different. Which reminds me of the best undergrad lab report ever.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 21:36
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/20thCFlicks/status/1269712313935953929
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 21:41
|
|
|
Ms Adequate posted:I'm glad the statue is down, but I wish there was some way we could have remembered who the statue was actually of. Shame they're the sole locus of historical knowledge.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 21:46
|
|
|
Was it one of the Egyptian civilizations that believed that, or someone in the Levant/Mesopotamia? I know there was one, and it was a lot more religious than damnatio memoriae.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 21:48
|
|
|
CGI Stardust posted:currently imagining a glorious universe where destroying historical relics of a person removes them from the timeline entirely SCP article where MTF Upsion Omega "Francis' Bacon" have to protect statues of horrible assholes by pretending to be cops, because if they're pulled down it fucks up the time line.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 21:48
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:Was it one of the Egyptian civilizations that believed that, or someone in the Levant/Mesopotamia? I know there was one, and it was a lot more religious than damnatio memoriae. There was that hiccup in egyptian history where the pharaoh akhenaten decided that the sun god was the only god and tried to remove all references to the other ones from the country, which understandably the priesthood and public weren't super happy about, so after he died they demolished all his statues and had his name chiselled off the record, and suggested to his successor that it might be a good for his health if he reinstated the pantheon. Whether or not they thought the process was magical or just practical I don't know.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 21:52
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:There was that hiccup in egyptian history where the pharaoh akhenaten decided that the sun god was the only god and tried to remove all references to the other ones from the country, which understandably the priesthood and public weren't super happy about, so after he died they demolished all his statues and had his name chiselled off the record, and suggested to his successor that it might be a good for his health if he reinstated the pantheon. Imagining a very Pratchett scene with the Egyptian pantheon looming menacingly over the new pharoah going "look here, sunshine"
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 21:53
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:Was it one of the Egyptian civilizations that believed that, or someone in the Levant/Mesopotamia? I know there was one, and it was a lot more religious than damnatio memoriae. The ancient egyptians did have a lot of beliefs about your depicitions being tied to how your afterlife would be. It's why pictures of people in tombs always show all limbs and the face in profile. So they might well have believed that destroying all depictions of someone would super-kill them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 21:54
|
|
|
We found The Good Cop https://twitter.com/20thCFlicks/status/1269728324693176321?cxt=HGwWgsC1qePL_Z4jAAAA Alternatively you could read this as very carefully avoiding saying "if there's enough of you we can't do anything about it" 
OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Jun 7, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 22:06
|
|
|
This has probably been posted before but i've only seen the video shot from the other side of the street https://twitter.com/rtyson82/status/1269456990876471296?s=20
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 22:09
|
|
|
This is very good
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 22:15
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/AliceTaylorM/status/1269638376417787904 https://twitter.com/ErnestWilkins/status/1269497692809572352
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 22:22
|
|
|
Animorphs is an incredible series and the letter K A Applegate wrote to angry fans explaining the ending is even more incredible. Also don't know the reliability of the source but this sure would be something: https://twitter.com/jaywillis/status/1269730657103540225
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 22:25
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:cool thread on statues  God I would love to find out this happened to a hypothetical statue near me. Say, of Cecil Rhodes. E: Animorphs is great, K.A . Applegate started out writing a cute kids fantasy scifi romp where kids bunk off school to fight aliens, and ended up writing a cerebral and complex examination of the impacts of war on child soldiers. IIRC she also has a trans kid and has been nothing but supportive of various progressive social movements. Maybe there should be a movement to just decide she wrote Harry Potter instead of Rowling.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 22:29
|
|
|
jabby posted:Animorphs is an incredible series and the letter K A Applegate wrote to angry fans explaining the ending is even more incredible.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 22:29
|
|
|
Oh they will disband the force, form a new force called Twin Cities PD with the same personnel and structure and uniforms and nothing will change
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 22:34
|
|
|
Then neither will the protests.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 22:39
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:
Sounds like maybe I should read it. I read the first few books when I was about 12 or so, but never really got very far. I gave it a go again a few years back but I found it a bit too, uhh, not great. But I haven't got much to read right now anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 22:41
|
|
|
ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:Oh they will disband the force, form a new force called Twin Cities PD with the same personnel and structure and uniforms and nothing will change Hopeful case, because the pigs have spent literally decades pissing in the council's soup as well as brutalizing the population, you get an RUC -> PSNI transition where there is some meaningful change at the top, even if it is still a police force. Best case, we get to see what a genuine community patrol system would look like.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 22:44
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:cool thread on statues too bad the manager has been called  https://twitter.com/RoystonMuseum/status/1269713901572235267
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 22:44
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:Worst case they do that. America, and certainly big city America, is absolutely not ready for the best case. You might get hopeful case, but I'd imagine the city council would just reform the PD under a different name and demand that every officer with any hint of a complaint against their name is fired. There is just too much money sloshing about the system to just go to community policing
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 22:49
|
|
|
baka kaba posted:too bad the manager has been called
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 22:50
|
|
|
baka kaba posted:too bad the manager has been called  Getting told by the manager to gently caress off.--- Sharing this new pod been listening to - Gammonauts - for all the deepdives into the worst loving human beings we're currently subjected to in the media.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 23:00
|
|
|
BalloonFish posted:Yeah, I said as much to a gammon on another forum. If anything the statue is more historically notable now than it was 24hrs ago - then it was just a controversial but uninteresting statue of a dead slave trader. Now it's The Statue That Was Pulled Down In The Protests Of June 2020. It has actual history in and of itself now, rather than merely commemorating a historical figure in an (at best) half-truthful way. That is a really interesting and solid argument god drat. The only valid argument, besides small-c-conservatism-for-the-sake-of-it which is a thing, for keeping the Bad Statues was that they were the product of a historically specific period of time and should be kept to help us reflect on that but why on earth isn't the present moment also historically specific? Even if someone absolutely whitewashes imperialism, slavery etc and tries to present the current situation as pure vandalism, destruction of heritage etc all that does is make everything morally-grey, if the same morally-grey tide of history that put the statues up then decides to tear them down and throw them in a river why is one historical moment objectively more valid than the other? You are absolutely dead right, put the busted up statue back up somewhere or keep it in the river, either way it's a more interesting thing than it was before.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 23:08
|
|
|
baka kaba posted:too bad the manager has been called Glorious. It has been heartening to see some public names and bodies being on the right side when it comes to the events in Bristol. Alice Roberts may have been a less-than-useful uni tutor but she knows where to stand when it comes to statues of slave traders and all the people coming to her on twitter hoping for a Famous Face to hangwring about it. I think the right-wing talking points bot has spewed up a new angle, because I'm suddenly seeing lots of 'concerned citizens' saying that pulling down the statue was racist because the statue was made of black gunmetal, they used a rope (so it looked like a lynching!) and most of the 'baying mob' were white.  Edit: Vitamin P posted:That is a really interesting and solid argument god drat. Thanks!  Vitamin P posted:Even if someone absolutely whitewashes imperialism, slavery etc and tries to present the current situation as pure vandalism, destruction of heritage etc all that does is make everything morally-grey, if the same morally-grey tide of history that put the statues up then decides to tear them down and throw them in a river why is one historical moment objectively more valid than the other? It isn't, it's just that the 'valid' history that needs to be preserved in aspic is the one that the people saying this are more comfortable with. Or (more charitably) it lets them come up with reasons not to confront the history they know would be uncomfortable to deal with. Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that when the Colston statue was erected in the 1890s it was not without controversy, and there were op-eds in the local papers wondering if it was really a good look for a city that, after all, was also a centre of the Abolition Movement and even the late-Victorians could baulk at lauding a literal slave-trader. I think that's one of the reasons why the inscription makes zero mention of how Colston came by his money. I'll try and find a source, but it might be a useful fact to drop into any discussions. BalloonFish fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jun 7, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 23:08
|
|
|
Vitamin P posted:That is a really interesting and solid argument god drat. Putting up statues is commemorating history. Tearing them down is making it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 23:12
|
|
|
WengerBoyz is a loving great twitter handle wasted on an absolute thundercunt of a person
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 23:12
|
|
|
XMNN posted:lol that guys tweets are just football, racial hatred and porn, so I'm sure he's very legitimately concerned about someone else inciting hatred and violence (against statues) I love the inexplicable WHO retweet amongst all the racist jokes and hardcore pornography and football bants
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 23:15
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1269756506859339778 Might actually be a thing. I agree it might just take the form of "reform the PD under a different name", but even then it's a means of pushing through meaningful reform. New contracts for cops, new agreements with the police union, a chance to dismiss the worst offenders out of hand. On the other hand if they actually try to embrace the community policing angle it's gonna be one hell of an interesting social experiment.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 23:38
|
|
|
That's a pretty impressive distance to have rolled that statue tbh. Someone please tweet this at the government and ask them whether this one should have been left up to "stimulate discussion" in future 
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 23:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 19:27 |
|
|
ok turns out jonathan ross of all people is backing up jk rowling. dude what exactly is your qualification to hold forth in this area
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2020 23:48
|
|