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Shimrra Jamaane posted:What lesson should CA take away from Three Kingdoms having about the same amount of daily players as Shogun 2 and less than Rome 2 according to Steam Stats? That 3k was the fastest selling game in the entire series? I assume they like money so I think they are ok with it
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Jun 7, 2020 20:09
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Captain Beans posted:That 3k was the fastest selling game in the entire series? I assume they like money so I think they are ok with it I think that also speaks volumes about Troy being given away for free. They probably know that it can't hold up to Warhammer or 3k and are trying an alternative strategy.
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Jun 7, 2020 20:13
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i think a lot of long term total war fans are having a difficult time reconciling that CA spun off the SAGA stuff to be discretely separate for a reason. not every total war game will be a game with infinite repeatability for 4000 hours that you can play for 5 years. that is what a lot of people still expect, that each game will be their 'forever game'. ToB was uh ok I guess, but it laid the ground work a bunch of systems they refined to great effect in 3k. it looks like CA plans to make Saga games work like some of their older dlc's that added new campaign maps (like spain for Napoleon or the Beastmen campaign for Warhammer1), and they intend for players to play through maybe once or twice. that sucks if you happen to be a player with a deep interest in the particular period of history that the Saga game covers, because you don't get the 'full' release but that is just their strategy. they use the Saga games as a way to test out new systems and integrate it into their mainline titles, and if they can sell a few copies of the game too that's great. no surprise that when Epic offered them a set pot of money to release as an Epic exclusive they took it, they never planed for a Saga game to make a ton of money anyway. it's actually quite wise for a company to release products that can be 'successful' without beating your own records year after year, eventually that becomes impossible to top. just look at COD, they sell like 5 million copies in one week and say it didn't meet expectations, which is insane. Captain Beans fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jun 7, 2020 |
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Jun 7, 2020 20:40
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If they want to give Saga games away for free, then sure I’ll play them, but I’m not going to buy into any more TOB like games. Almost the same price as a mainline title and a fraction of the replayability.
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Jun 7, 2020 22:45
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Beamed posted:Asymmetric factions are vital for replayability, IMHO. I think I speak for everyone that 3K ruled a ton, but I also.. don't feel compelled to pick it back up very much. Same. It looks and plays great. I love the mid-battle poo poo talking. I think the duel system is neat and the emphasis on retinues is an interesting dynamic. I've actually paid more attention to family and court stuff in this game than in Rome. At the end of the day however, most of the factions seem to play the same? With some slight differences of course. Cao Cao has a unique diplomacy mechanic, Yuan Shao has another currency to spend on an improved occupy mechanic, etc. But there's doesn't seem to be the kind of asymmetry you would get playing a different race or even LL in Warhammer 2. I haven't tried very many LLs in 3K, though, so maybe there's some substantial uniqueness I haven't found yet.
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Jun 7, 2020 22:54
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Nah they're all basically the same. I liked the game but your options are "start in the thunderbowl" or "don't start in the thunderbowl" and then I ended up just abusing archers and cav every game.
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Jun 7, 2020 23:06
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Dramicus posted:I think that also speaks volumes about Troy being given away for free. They probably know that it can't hold up to Warhammer or 3k and are trying an alternative strategy. That decision probably has more to do with Epic than anything.
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Jun 7, 2020 23:47
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part of the homogeneity of 3k stems from a large amount of personality and uniqueness coming from generals, who are pretty easy to hoover up and collect as most faction. yeah it might be difficult to get xu chu as yuan shao but by the end of the game you're probably holding 60-70% of the roster. if they made generals a bit more specific or maybe only made it so governor factions can grab a lot of different ones (doesnt make a lot of sense that, say, liu bei would permanently join cao cao anyways) and then made them a bit more unique, they could add to romance mode at least
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Jun 7, 2020 23:54
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Eh like sure it's fun to watch Lu Bu play dynasty warriors but aside from the rare actually powerful purple general I really dont notice them. They do their job generic or heroic. It's just that every single battle my best stat is 4x archers, 2x trebs, 6 red cav, and 6 guys to hold the line. It's just too powerful and I never feel the need to adapt and since almost every faction gets the same units, to say nothing of Imperial units, there's not variety to what I am doing. It's a fun beautiful game but until the rosters really differ it feels super samey to me.
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Jun 8, 2020 00:14
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You can’t really have a diverse roster in any game where the factions are functually just splinters in a civil war And that’s what 3K is a large slow churn civil war
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Jun 8, 2020 00:24
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Other games have managed it, especially since 3K isn't strictly trying to be realistic anyway. And there's certainly justification for having the units you can recruit in the northern border vs in the yellow river plain vs in the southern mountains vs on the Wu coast, etc etc They even kinda started that themselves except they just gave up and gave each faction one or two unique units- like why is Liu Bei recruiting Yi province archers long before he goes to Yi province? Why can't whoever owns Xiliang get Xiliang cav? Imo units could be more varied and the recruitment requirements should vary- some tech based, some region based (xiliang cav), some locked to specific factions (tiger cav-Cao Cao) while others tied to specific characters and their kids, regardless of what faction they end up in, while being universally recruitable if their associated character leads the faction (white horse cav-Gonsun Zan and fam)
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Jun 8, 2020 02:10
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CharlestheHammer posted:You can’t really have a diverse roster in any game where the factions are functually just splinters in a civil war The comparison here would probably be Shogun 2, right, but Shogun 2 still today has tons of replayability.
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Jun 8, 2020 02:14
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A few people I know haven't gotten into it because they have no interest or exposure to Chinese history which is also a barrier to introducing new blood. One thing they should absolutely take away is how slick and beautifully presented the game is, it really adds a ton of life and atmosphere into the game.
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Jun 8, 2020 02:14
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Flipswitch posted:A few people I know haven't gotten into it because they have no interest or exposure to Chinese history which is also a barrier to introducing new blood. Yeah, I've held off on getting 3K because I have only the most cursory familiarity with the time period and feel like I need to actually read Rot3K before I can actually appreciate the game all that much
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Jun 8, 2020 02:22
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IIRC the unique units in Shogun 2 are top tier units, right? That probably helps the diversity. Meanwhile most of the 3k unique are mid tier and way outclassed by the dragon/imperial units. If they were strong enough to really give faction identity it would be something.
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Jun 8, 2020 02:28
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HannibalBarca posted:Yeah, I've held off on getting 3K because I have only the most cursory familiarity with the time period and feel like I need to actually read Rot3K before I can actually appreciate the game all that much
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Jun 8, 2020 02:33
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I mean total war is always going to have people more interested in certain periods of time. I find the Roman medieval time more interesting so I’m going to gravitate towards that. I played and enjoyed shogun and 3k but I admit without something to hold my interest I have no reason to return
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Jun 8, 2020 03:06
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My only exposure to the period was the Dynasty Warriors game and TW3K made me go out and watch the chinese live action series, which is both good and freely available on Youtube with subtitles.
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Jun 8, 2020 03:07
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Flipswitch posted:For me it's been the other way around - it's made me want to read it to learn more about these characters. I have spent a few evenings googling to learn who people are and there is a mod that adds a little historical blurb to each characters profile which helps. ditto, I didn't know poo poo about the time period and I had a hell of a hard time keeping track of all the character names that were so unfamiliar to me now a month later I realized I'm like 50 hours into the excellent 3k TV show that's all on youtube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXoEUR1OmnrJs3NIh42WHtW3w8wokZ9Bz its totally ridiculous and a ton of fun to watch Captain Beans fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Jun 8, 2020 |
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Jun 8, 2020 03:09
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You only really need to know like the first 10% of the story to understand the setting anyways.
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Jun 8, 2020 03:16
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Captain Beans posted:ditto, I didn't know poo poo about the time period and I had a hell of a hard time keeping track of all the character names that were so unfamiliar to me I'm in exactly the same position, but it does illustrate why people might be more likely to bounce off three kingdoms - if you don't already have a sense of who the characters are the information in the game isn't really enough to make them compelling contrast with tw:w, where you don't really need to know anything about warhammer to grasp what's going on with the different factions, especially if you've come into contact with LOTR-derivative fantasy before, which most gamers will have
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Jun 8, 2020 03:22
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In CA's defense they have tried to make fun made up units and/or anachronistic units, and all it usually gets them is poo poo thrown at them from all sides for not being "historically accurate", they get around this with 3K because they're following the book and not history. To be honest I don't blame them, some of the chuds over at TwC would probably storm their offices if they made to many "inaccurate" changes to a game. gently caress they get poo poo for WH2 for not being loreful enough sometimes. ad090 fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Jun 8, 2020 |
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Jun 8, 2020 03:23
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Captain Beans posted:ditto, I didn't know poo poo about the time period and I had a hell of a hard time keeping track of all the character names that were so unfamiliar to me Only true filial sons can appreciate the genius of the 2010 ROTK. Fatuous lords and big-eared villains shouldn’t even waste their time.
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Jun 8, 2020 04:46
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its really good until you get to like 80 episodes of zhou yu being outsmarted very slowly by zhuge liang
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Jun 8, 2020 04:58
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HannibalBarca posted:Yeah, I've held off on getting 3K because I have only the most cursory familiarity with the time period and feel like I need to actually read Rot3K before I can actually appreciate the game all that much That's dumb. The game is a great introduction and teaser to Rot3K, not the other way around. Just play. Flipswitch posted:A few people I know haven't gotten into it because they have no interest or exposure to Chinese history which is also a barrier to introducing new blood. VVVVVVVVV: Captain Beans posted:That 3k was the fastest selling game in the entire series? I assume they like money so I think they are ok with it MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Jun 8, 2020 |
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Jun 8, 2020 06:17
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Nobody is denying that, I'm just mentioning what others have said as a possible reason with attracting even more players, 3k is definitely my favourite TW and I think it's great.  I am planning to watch that series once I've finished another show I'm watching. Thanks for the links all.
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Jun 8, 2020 08:18
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I want to try to get into Rome II again. What are the modding standouts? I'm planning on trying DEI with the 40% faster battles submod, since that apparently brings it closer to vanilla speed. Any alternatives?
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Jun 8, 2020 10:55
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Captain Beans posted:That 3k was the fastest selling game in the entire series? I assume they like money so I think they are ok with it Counterpoint, it has also suffered greater proportional dropoff and retention loss than, say, TW:W2. This is probably a non-zero factor in determining the value of DLC sales in the game's lifecycle. TW:W2 is up to 85,92€ in combined DLC costs, while 3K is at 40,95€. Both of these numbers are still set to rise a bit and I wonder if they'll attain parity by the end, but I'd love to see current overall DLC sales figures if they're out there. 3K had a much greater initial sales impact but I doubt the tail will be as impressive, if the daily player numbers are to be believed. This isn't a knock on 3K, which is obviously a success, but there's more metrics than just up-front base game sales to consider.
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Jun 8, 2020 12:38
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yea but the dlc largely sucked while tww2 still owns
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Jun 8, 2020 12:47
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I submitted to Cao Cao as a vassal to stop him ravaging my lands in my Liu Chong campaign, next turn he liberated me and set up a trade agreement. What the.
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Jun 8, 2020 13:11
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If 3k released a later start date, a nanman faction, and added some weird zhuge liang tactics (juggernauts) it would be my favorite game ever I think romance mode needs go go a step farther and introduce all of the weird tactics from rotk
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Jun 8, 2020 14:38
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I wish 3k had let romance mode also include a bunch of pseudo magic bullshit for the great tacticians to do. Basically Kessen 2, but cooler. Zhuge Liang drops a loving meteor on these people, whatever, who cares
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Jun 8, 2020 14:53
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i just downloaded rome 2 and divide et impera; good guide for first time players of the mod?
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Jun 8, 2020 15:25
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To be fair I would poo poo on them for using fantasy units. Keep that to the war hammer poo poo where I can ignore it easily
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Jun 8, 2020 15:58
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KazigluBey posted:Counterpoint, it has also suffered greater proportional dropoff and retention loss than, say, TW:W2. This is probably a non-zero factor in determining the value of DLC sales in the game's lifecycle. TW:W2 is up to 85,92€ in combined DLC costs, while 3K is at 40,95€. Both of these numbers are still set to rise a bit and I wonder if they'll attain parity by the end, but I'd love to see current overall DLC sales figures if they're out there. Not 3K, not Shogun, not Rome. When Medieval 3 eventually makes its way out, it trend the same as the rest of the historical titles. Warhammer 3 will likely maintain the Warhammer 2 trend. lurksion fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Jun 8, 2020 |
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Jun 8, 2020 15:59
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How much of this game is recruiting cool units and generals vs worrying about what color everything is and what effects that will have based on some chart?
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Jun 8, 2020 16:02
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Flavius Aetass posted:How much of this game is recruiting cool units and generals vs worrying about what color everything is and what effects that will have based on some chart? The colours are guidelines and don't have a mechanical effect by themselves - they're just reminders about what role the unit/building does. E: to answer your question, as long as you pay a nominal amount of attention with buildings you'll be fine, and generals get more access to units of the same colour but it's not totally cut and dry.
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Jun 8, 2020 16:21
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I’m not sure which game your talking about but 3Ks is neither of those things? It’s not a spreadsheet but the generals are generic once the named ones go away
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Jun 8, 2020 16:23
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CharlestheHammer posted:I’m not sure which game your talking about but 3Ks is neither of those things? Why would the named ones go away I've never had a game go past 130 turns ever, even at my most turtley
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Jun 8, 2020 16:29
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I'm curious what legendary unique characters they're updating with the next dlc for 3k. Between it and MTU it fleshes out the game quite a bit.
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Jun 8, 2020 18:21
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