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The left were never in power, they just weren't sitting at the top. The leaked report proved that. e: well that's depressing. Have a cat. 
Doctor_Fruitbat fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Jun 9, 2020 |
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Jun 9, 2020 10:01
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I didn't immediately get the significance of this because for a brief moment I forgot that he was Harry Potter. I suspect he would be very happy to know that someone, however briefly, was able to look at his face and forget that he was Harry Potter
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Jun 9, 2020 10:02
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Oh dear me posted:It's an active battleground. Until such member power as we have has been removed, it's desertion that needs justifying, IMO. Sure The leaked report, the contents within, the effects of them and that several months on, not even a suspension while under investigation. People got suspended for saying they liked the foo fighters or liking a tweet from the green party, but racist bullies, fraudsters and people happily sabotaging anti-semitism inquiries still hold positions of power. Starmer wants that buried and the press and a half hundred gurning blue tick acolytes will turn a blind eye because he's so electable and forensic That's all the reason anyone should need.
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Jun 9, 2020 10:06
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:The left were never in power, they just weren't sitting at the top. The leaked report proved that. That's a fair point yeah, though I see it as a learning point for a future left leadership that I'd hope would encourage them to be significantly more ruthless dealing with internal issues than Corbyn's team were.
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Jun 9, 2020 10:11
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I'm definitely conflicted, but I don't really have the time/energy/skill to actually go to clp meetings or conference or whatever and make a difference and it seems a bit perverse to chuck hundreds of pounds into a party that can't even call trump a racist just so I can vote on the nec elections e: and I can always do the same thing I did in 2015 and join back up to vote for a left wing candidate if there might actually be one XMNN fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Jun 9, 2020 |
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Jun 9, 2020 10:12
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Katie Leung got there first. The real burn has come from the kid who played Draco Malfoy's son in the epilogue, though. https://twitter.com/bertieglbrt/status/1269394588046942209?s=20
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Jun 9, 2020 10:13
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The Churchill chat earlier left me with the depressing thought that it’s possible a kind, humane outside world would in fact have been just as weak and ready for collapse as the fascists thought it was, and it took ruthless hierarchical systems like American capitalism, British imperialism and Stalinist totalitarianism to effectively marshal the resources to stop them. In other words Hitler and his buddies believed the lies the US, USSR and Britain told ourselves about who we all really were, and got stomped as a result.
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Jun 9, 2020 10:17
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loving state of labour https://twitter.com/NickTorfaen/status/1270098024933535744?s=20
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Jun 9, 2020 10:19
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lib dems however https://twitter.com/LaylaMoran/status/1270137492365348865?s=20
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Jun 9, 2020 10:27
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Beefeater1980 posted:The Churchill chat earlier left me with the depressing thought that it’s possible a kind, humane outside world would in fact have been just as weak and ready for collapse as the fascists thought it was, and it took ruthless hierarchical systems like American capitalism, British imperialism and Stalinist totalitarianism to effectively marshal the resources to stop them. It's more that you need to be ruthless to fight fascists because they'll fight to the point of extermination. The best case if someone like Chamberlain had been PM, someone who didn't want war but would fight with regret, would be a Nazi "surrender" that put us back in the same place 20 years down the line, except with nukes. The worst case would be that we lost in early 1941. Churchill was a bastard, but we needed a bastard.
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Jun 9, 2020 10:27
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Churchill didn't do gently caress all did he? Wasn't his contribution to WW2 nicking food from India to keep Britain fed and making speeches? It was ww1 where he actually tried to do some military action and it was a huge gently caress up cause he'd based the entire plan on racism and was genuinely shocked that Turkish bullets could kill white people.
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Jun 9, 2020 10:33
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Jose posted:loving state of labour this was linked in the comments, the woman who got trampled by the horse is unsurprisingly being told to gently caress off by the pigs https://twitter.com/jessiebabyy_x/status/1269629300325654529?s=20
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Jun 9, 2020 10:35
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https://twitter.com/AndrewProjDent/status/1270023344491020291
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Jun 9, 2020 10:36
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Communist Thoughts posted:Churchill didn't do gently caress all did he? He was a virulent racist, but claiming Churchill, leader of one of the Allied powers, did 'gently caress all' in World War II is a bit silly.
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Jun 9, 2020 10:37
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Bizarre tweet on the twin basis that the article is in part about Ahmed Best's mental health issues resulting from mockery about Jar-Jar Binks, so uh, nice one Tim, combined with the fact that unlike Tim Farron's pathetic grovelling, Ahmed Best being in Star Wars again is literally happening right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynDMTiamRRY josh04 fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Jun 9, 2020 |
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Jun 9, 2020 10:38
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Really weird to see this statue thing on the front pages of some of the right-wing papers for the 2nd day in a row. Like, it's really struck a nerve or something.
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Jun 9, 2020 10:39
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What's the guy in the bottom left photo meant to be doing? He looks like he's just stroking the statue with his bare hands.
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Jun 9, 2020 10:39
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Necrothatcher posted:He was a virulent racist, but claiming Churchill, leader of one of the Allied powers, did 'gently caress all' in World War II is a bit silly. What did e do then? Bojo is one of the leader of the allied powers during the plague and he has done "gently caress all"
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Jun 9, 2020 10:40
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Communist Thoughts posted:What did e do then? Bojo is one of the leader of the allied powers during the plague and he has done "gently caress all" Well he's generally credited with brokering the Allied Coalition between the USA and Russia.
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Jun 9, 2020 10:46
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I've discovered peak radical centrism. Apparently Starmer can't possibly support tearing down a bad statue because it would then leave him in a position of having to support any and all statue-tearing down to avoid being a hypocrite.
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Jun 9, 2020 10:49
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Jedit posted:It's more that you need to be ruthless to fight fascists because they'll fight to the point of extermination. The best case if someone like Chamberlain had been PM, someone who didn't want war but would fight with regret, would be a Nazi "surrender" that put us back in the same place 20 years down the line, except with nukes. The worst case would be that we lost in early 1941. Churchill was a bastard, but we needed a bastard. You're conflating 'being a bastard' with 'being willing to fight' a little here, which, I regret to inform you, is a form of liberalism. Churchill was an absolute bastard in a thousand ways, but his willingness to get into an extended war with Hitler and refuse to surrender even at the precipice of collapse was not one of them Communist Thoughts posted:What did e do then? Bojo is one of the leader of the allied powers during the plague and he has done "gently caress all" Remember Bojo doesn't want to be Churchill, he wants to cosplay Churchill to get laid and feel cool. Actual responsibility terrifies him, whereas the old school British Empire paternalist Tories tended to take their jobs a little more seriously even if quite a few of them were poo poo at those jobs and quite a few of the jobs involved some variety of colonial brutality. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Jun 9, 2020 |
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Jun 9, 2020 10:49
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Jose posted:loving state of labour When's the NEC vote on having leadership that doesn't support systemic racism
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Jun 9, 2020 10:50
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Pistol_Pete posted:Really weird to see this statue thing on the front pages of some of the right-wing papers for the 2nd day in a row. Like, it's really struck a nerve or something. Peasant revolts tend to do that to the elites
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Jun 9, 2020 10:53
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ThomasPaine posted:You're conflating 'being a bastard' with 'being willing to fight' a little here, which, I regret to inform you, is a form of liberalism. Churchill was an absolute bastard in a thousand ways, but his willingness to get into an extended war with Hitler and refuse to surrender even at the precipice of collapse was not one of them he's probably very hosed off he can't bail on his current girlfriend and kid
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Jun 9, 2020 10:54
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Communist Thoughts posted:Churchill didn't do gently caress all did he? Wasn't his contribution to WW2 nicking food from India to keep Britain fed and making speeches? fdr and stalin thought he was an idiot and apparently used to mock him behind his back
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Jun 9, 2020 10:56
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Already gone what was it?
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Jun 9, 2020 11:01
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thespaceinvader posted:Already gone what was it? Being an idiot white woman speaking like Jar Jar Binks.
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Jun 9, 2020 11:02
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thespaceinvader posted:Already gone what was it? Tim Farron said that JarJar returning to Star Wars would be like him running for leader again. Layla Moran responded in Jar Jar style. The whole thing was dumb and bad
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Jun 9, 2020 11:05
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Dead Goon posted:You don't think the Labour Party under Keir Starmer has done anything to justify deserting? The power gained by membership of the Labour Party is not useful for the Labour Party as a whole, but only for the left of the LP against the right. That's the fight people are quitting. The Labour Party are only the protagonists in local and general elections, and I'm entirely relaxed about people not fighting for Starmer's Labour in those.
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Jun 9, 2020 11:08
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XMNN posted:I'm definitely conflicted, but I don't really have the time/energy/skill to actually go to clp meetings or conference or whatever and make a difference and it seems a bit perverse to chuck hundreds of pounds into a party that can't even call trump a racist just so I can vote on the nec elections My feelings exactly.
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Jun 9, 2020 11:08
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i am torn between this and this Oh dear me posted:The power gained by membership of the Labour Party is not useful for the Labour Party as a whole, but only for the left of the LP against the right. That's the fight people are quitting. XMNN posted:I'm definitely conflicted, but I don't really have the time/energy/skill to actually go to clp meetings or conference or whatever and make a difference and it seems a bit perverse to chuck hundreds of pounds into a party that can't even call trump a racist just so I can vote on the nec elections and haven't left yet, though i'm extremely close and would have done a couple times now if i could be bothered also I did promise when i joined i wouldn't leave for as long as anti-austerity left economics existed and i still stayed through McDonnell's disappointing crap anyway. so im sorta waiting for them to outright say "austerity is back baby awoo" fake edit: i guess thats the only saving grace of corbyn losing, it was a very tame economic platform (remember the beginning when picketty and murphy were helping writing it? holy poo poo. that got thrown out double quick) so it'd have been expending all our energy to defend some milquetoast social democracy for 2 years until he got monstered out of office
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Jun 9, 2020 11:26
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Communist Thoughts posted:Churchill didn't do gently caress all did he? Wasn't his contribution to WW2 nicking food from India to keep Britain fed and making speeches? Churchill was an atrociously bad tactician (possibly because of being a massive racist but I feel it’s deeper than that). He was good at three things that most people are not good at: 1: Strategy. He knew for a fact that it would win WW1 early to win in the Eastern front. It’s hard to argue that this was wrong. His idea of exactly how to win was bullshit but his idea that sending people east instead of getting murdered at the Somme was a good one IMO. In WW2, he knew that we couldn’t win without the US and USSR. Churchill spent years charming the Americans into being ready for war, so that they didn’t drop the blockade on Japan (meaning the Japanese leaders felt they had to attack) and had actually started building an army ready to fight a war on another continent that a lot of their population didn’t think mattered. He also defused British and American opposition to allying with the USSR despite years of demonisation and Stalin also being a massive poo poo, and supported sending them resources, because he understood that it was important. Getting the big picture stuff right is HARD. I think this is really underrated by most people because we look at history with perfect insight into what actually happened, but in the moment with limited information it’s insanely difficult to be consistently right about the big stuff, and he was (so far as it related to his personal tribe - to anyone else he was awful). 2: Propaganda. Man was a good journalist and understood what made his audience tick. 3: Leadership. He kept Britain’s bickering, fractious, selfish elites (aristos, industrialists and press barons) from couping him and joining or making peace with Hitler, managed the opposition (which was properly socialist compared to labour parties in our lifetimes) well enough to keep them onside and not eg calling strikes against Imperialist Wars in the period before Russia joined and told them to knock it off, and actually managed despite being a raging drunk to keep convening and leading cabinet meetings regularly throughout the war. We shouldn’t ever forget the Bengal famine, the racism, the contempt for ordinary people or the strikebreaking. But it’s a bit stupid to overlook the things he was good at, because they contributed in a useful way to winning a very important war. Some of the fair criticisms of Jeremy Corbyn are that he was bad at these things, which collectively constitute most of leadership. Leadership isn’t just about having morally correct views and being inspirational, it’s also about being the kind of person who can make other people who disagree with you fall in line and support your agenda. It’s not really about purging them - even Stalin didn’t purge literally everyone, he purged to the point that enough people got the message, and other leaders have got people behind them without purges too. Also at least Churchill personally paid something, in a way meaningful to him, right after the war when he and the other Tories were at the victory party at the Dorchester slowly discovering that the people of Britain had collectively told the Tories to gently caress off. Beefeater1980 fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Jun 9, 2020 |
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Jun 9, 2020 11:26
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thanks for the churchill info, the only stuff i've read about him has been UK stuff which all lionises him to a ridiculous degree and i assume is all patriotic nonsense, dan carlin from back in the day who has a pretty i guess its impressive getting the british state to do anything together let alone a global war, mind you that does fall into the category of "killing ordinary people" which the state has never had any issue with e: tbh thinking about it bojo could probably declare war on norway tomorrow and labour would be extremely horny to vote for it like all MPs seem to get around war. they could go on the telly so much too! Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Jun 9, 2020 |
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Jun 9, 2020 11:36
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Tarnop posted:Tim Farron said that JarJar returning to Star Wars would be like him running for leader again. Layla Moran responded in Jar Jar style. The whole thing was dumb and bad https://twitter.com/deletedbyMPs/status/1270289869219205121?s=19
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Jun 9, 2020 11:40
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I forgot about politwoops altogether because it barely crossed my mind that Layla Moran is an MP
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Jun 9, 2020 12:01
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I don't normally pay attention to the ever-ongoing J.K.Terfing bullshit but now it's way up there on the BBC website. I hope she's feeling mighty embarrassed (but i expect she's actually pulling a "am i really that out of touch? no, it is the everybody else who are wrong")
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Jun 9, 2020 12:03
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Communist Thoughts posted:thanks for the churchill info, the only stuff i've read about him has been UK stuff which all lionises him to a ridiculous degree and i assume is all patriotic nonsense, dan carlin from back in the day who has a pretty
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Jun 9, 2020 12:03
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https://twitter.com/squires_david/status/1270307692427350016 Prime av material in the latest Squires cartoon. 
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Jun 9, 2020 12:06
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:I don't normally pay attention to the ever-ongoing J.K.Terfing bullshit but now it's way up there on the BBC website. I hope she's feeling mighty embarrassed (but i expect she's actually pulling a "am i really that out of touch? no, it is the everybody else who are wrong") it would be nice for the article to actually explain why what she said was transphobic rather than just giving a fence-sitting "she was called transphobic but said she wasn't", but can you really expect anything more from bbc news i guess
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Jun 9, 2020 12:13
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owns https://twitter.com/atvbe/status/1270273969569087490?s=20
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Jun 9, 2020 12:14
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