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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Granada, the Maghreb, Portugal, Scotland, Ireland, and a whole lot of other places would really benefit from being able to actually fight defensively instead of what happens in EU4. The power of the Ottomans could to a large degree be driven by having a better administration early on that allows them to take better advantage of their empire, and thus snowballing, with Europe needing to catch up to halt their progress and eventually turn things around. Small states like Portugal or Scotland would have a sort of similar dynamic, except instead of needing to take advantage of a relative strength, they'd need to take advantage of the relative weakness of England and Spain to grow strong enough to be able to resist them when the latter got their acts together. Vivian Darkbloom posted:Two things I'd really like to see fixed in a future title: armies marching across whole continents with unlimited reinforcements and every conflict ending up as a hellwar to the bitter end. I'm not really sure how you fix that problem though. Maybe with a more complicated supply model and the AI somehow understanding attrition?
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Jun 4, 2020 19:05
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Morocco is literally more powerful than any Iberian nation at game start
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Jun 4, 2020 19:29
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Granada, the Maghreb, Portugal, Scotland, Ireland, and a whole lot of other places would really benefit from being able to actually fight defensively instead of what happens in EU4. Everywhere in the world would benefit from this. The lack of real logistical mechanics are one of the games biggest problems.
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Jun 4, 2020 19:33
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:Two things I'd really like to see fixed in a future title: armies marching across whole continents with unlimited reinforcements and every conflict ending up as a hellwar to the bitter end. I'm not really sure how you fix that problem though. Maybe with a more complicated supply model and the AI somehow understanding attrition? I feel like adding extra complications to the player's ability to extend force would require reengineering a significant chunk of the UI to make that clear to players, because it'd be a big shock to players to just be moving along their units and then halfway through one of their arrows, a big chunk of their troops disappear. Not that it couldn't be done, just that it seems like something they'd need to make some bold decisions about to make the game feel more engaging despite the fact that the explicit intent is to disempower the player instead of just bolting a new system on with a couple numbers tweaks.
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Jun 4, 2020 19:52
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PittTheElder posted:Everywhere in the world would benefit from this. The lack of real logistical mechanics are one of the games biggest problems. The supplies mechanic of imperator is one of the few good innovations in its combat system. Really should be part of every game going forward.
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Jun 4, 2020 19:59
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Communist Walrus posted:A new Sweden-only random event where its brightest minds flee to Aragon. -50% monarch point generation for 1000 years 400 year MTTH unless Sweden has formed Rome, then it drops to 1.
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Jun 4, 2020 20:15
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SlothfulCobra posted:I feel like adding extra complications to the player's ability to extend force would require reengineering a significant chunk of the UI to make that clear to players, because it'd be a big shock to players to just be moving along their units and then halfway through one of their arrows, a big chunk of their troops disappear. I feel like a simple thing to do would be to make morale even more important/visible but have a lot of different modifiers. Like it only refills at max speed in home territory, if the army is too far away from your capital/states it imposes max morale penalties etc. If that 100k army you send to South America has to deal with limited morale that refills really slowly it would greatly slow them down without being any annoying extra systems.
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Jun 4, 2020 20:33
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I had another idea for limiting hell wars: Max warscore. Maybe some CBs just naturally have a low max warscore, for wars that are essentially punitive, but on top of that you could have the max warscore be changed dynamically. Beating enemy armies in the field, even if you're ultimately defeated strategically, would reduce the max warscore they can accumulate and thus increasingly make it not worth it to prolong a war. You just need a significant "Not much more to gain" modifier to wanting to sue for peace to override whatever modifiers exist to prolonging it.Zeron posted:I feel like a simple thing to do would be to make morale even more important/visible but have a lot of different modifiers. Like it only refills at max speed in home territory, if the army is too far away from your capital/states it imposes max morale penalties etc. If that 100k army you send to South America has to deal with limited morale that refills really slowly it would greatly slow them down without being any annoying extra systems.
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Jun 4, 2020 21:12
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ilitarist posted:It's a low wages country for EU. I've worked in a company that worked for huge EU company that outsorced a lot of the work to us, guys from outside of EU. At some point they've decided to cut costs and moved their headquarters from a more wealthy country to Spain. In theory, they could buy out my company or other companies all over the world. But they explained to me that moving business inside of EU is comparatively easy and risk-free. So they cut a lot of old experienced professionals, some have relocated to Spain. Catalonian salaries are not the highest in Europe, but they are not particularly low either, like only 14% lower than the European average, or 28% below the UK. I don't call that a truely low wages country. Especially not when compared to the situation one and a half generation ago: they made a huge jump on the prosperity scale, even with the recent crises included. https://www.catalannews.com/business/item/salaries-in-catalonia-13th-highest-in-european-union
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Jun 4, 2020 22:25
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Zedhe Khoja posted:The supplies mechanic of imperator is one of the few good innovations in its combat system. Really should be part of every game going forward. Agreed, it's a relatively simple mechanic that's easy to understand and use but has a huge impact on warfare. I'll be shocked if they don't do something similar in EU5.
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Jun 4, 2020 22:58
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Magissima posted:Agreed, it's a relatively simple mechanic that's easy to understand and use but has a huge impact on warfare. I'll be shocked if they don't do something similar in EU5. Totally -- it's easy to see how that system could simulate something like Napolean's Russian campaign.
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Jun 5, 2020 05:32
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Is Imperator worth buying yet?
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Jun 5, 2020 13:52
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Mostly.
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Jun 5, 2020 17:34
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Zedhe Khoja posted:The supplies mechanic of imperator is one of the few good innovations in its combat system. Really should be part of every game going forward. During one of the EU4 dev clash streams, Johan idly mentioned that he wished EU4 had the new Imperator food system as he was watching european armies march around china without penalty. I suspect that he's going to want to add it to EU5, at the very least.
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Jun 5, 2020 22:00
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Is Imperator worth buying yet? Yeah mostly. The character mechanics are kinda fun with events, but marriage is pretty broken. Under monarchy you have to arrange marriages for your own family, but if there's even a slight gender imbalance then the AI controlling the other families will automatically snipe any eligible characters the instant they turn 16. You can try for the ruling families of your neighbours, but they also get sniped the second they turn 16.
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Jun 7, 2020 08:25
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:During one of the EU4 dev clash streams, Johan idly mentioned that he wished EU4 had the new Imperator food system as he was watching european armies march around china without penalty. I suspect that he's going to want to add it to EU5, at the very least. I hadn’t even thought about that as an impact of it (because in Imperator I’m always fighting close to my borders), but that’s a huge benefit. You’d need to do something special for hordes I guess. Enjoying Imperator now after bouncing off it hard at launch, although as usual with paradox the next patch fixes something that’s bugging me about the game in its current state (vassals), making it hard to start up a new game.
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Jun 9, 2020 06:23
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Beefeater1980 posted:I hadn’t even thought about that as an impact of it (because in Imperator I’m always fighting close to my borders), but that’s a huge benefit. You’d need to do something special for hordes I guess. Imperator lets your armies loot food from any province they've captured the capital of. That should be good enough for hordes. Also I kinda gave up on my game after drifting into a civil war, only to have the game end instantly the second the war broke out. I didn't even get a chance to read the messages explaining why.
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Jun 9, 2020 08:06
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Beefeater1980 posted:I hadn’t even thought about that as an impact of it (because in Imperator I’m always fighting close to my borders), but that’s a huge benefit. You’d need to do something special for hordes I guess. Actually the vassal changes got pushed to the patch after the next patch so it's going to be like 4+ months until that's sorted
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Jun 9, 2020 08:45
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Yeah mostly. The character mechanics are kinda fun with events, but marriage is pretty broken. Under monarchy you have to arrange marriages for your own family, but if there's even a slight gender imbalance then the AI controlling the other families will automatically snipe any eligible characters the instant they turn 16. You can try for the ruling families of your neighbours, but they also get sniped the second they turn 16. this really needs to be sorted with a 'debutante' button or something
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Jun 9, 2020 09:22
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Fuligin posted:this really needs to be sorted with a 'debutante' button or something Didn’t CK2 have a betrothal mechanic to handle this kind of thing?
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Jun 9, 2020 10:20
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Beefeater1980 posted:I hadn’t even thought about that as an impact of it (because in Imperator I’m always fighting close to my borders), but that’s a huge benefit. You’d need to do something special for hordes I guess. Yeah i got the Paradox-disease hard and can't bear to continue my lp until it comes out.
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Jun 9, 2020 10:26
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I'm thinking / hoping that the nobles and trade goods thing is going to give the game that "why should I conquer this territory instead of that one" factor which EU4 has but Imperator lacks and makes the world feel less like a big blob of all more or less the same thing. At the moment you just go for the place with the most pops which are hopefully your culture / religion and maybe you aim specifically for a nice chokepoint border somewhere. But there's never the feeling that there are territories which are really way more vauable than others (except for Egypt because it's so pop dense and full of papyrus)
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Jun 9, 2020 11:12
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I do feel like the trade and production mechanics in EU are rather over-abstracted given that they're practically the single most era-defining feature of the period EU covers. As a power in the new world you don't have any real control over which resource your colonies produce, and you don't really care, because what difference is it if your province in Carolina makes cotton or tobacco? In the East, you grab some provinces and make them trade companies to increase your trade power, then gather up some merchants and plonk them down in nodes to steer the trade home. And if you are playing someone east of Persia, instead you just want to keep the Europeans out and stop your trade leaking out, forget about any foreign trade of your own. And to make things even more bizarre, trade goods and trade itself have almost exactly nothing to do with one another except as a tenuous numerical relationship.
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Jun 9, 2020 11:51
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Yeah, trade goods themselves in EU4 are very not interesting (except when you get a ton of high value ones in the same place) but dominating trade nodes and controlling river estuaries and trade ports is a big deal, and gives some shape to the geopolitical "value map" aside from pure geography.
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Jun 9, 2020 12:56
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Maybe some kind of monopoly simulation could help: if say I'm the Philippines and manage to conquer 90% of the spice-producing provinces in SEA, well I could pretty much set the price instead of being forced to sell them for 3 gold or whatever it is, with some pre-set "desirability" modifier where spices, ivory, tobacco, dyes etc would always be in higher demand than grain, fish, livestock... but overall the more diverse is the ownership of a single trade good, the lower the price should be due to market competition. Would make it worth to try and conquer the most sought after trade goods, and still worth it to get a high share of one single type of good even if it's not the best one.
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Jun 9, 2020 13:49
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RabidWeasel posted:Yeah, trade goods themselves in EU4 are very not interesting (except when you get a ton of high value ones in the same place) but dominating trade nodes and controlling river estuaries and trade ports is a big deal, and gives some shape to the geopolitical "value map" aside from pure geography. Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I agree it's a big deal, but it's also quite simplistic. Like, you want to control a river estuary, not because of any emergent reason like nations upriver deciding to send their trade down to the sea because that's the most profitable way to route their own trade, but because those provinces have a river estuary modifier which adds more number to your trade number. I am no game designer, but off the top of my head my idea would be something like a slimmed down version of pop needs from Vicky, but on a slightly more abstracted state level. e.g. your country needs [x] grain [x] wool/cloth [x] iron each year, and desires [x] spices [x] wine etc. You could get those through a trade system, or make colonies & trade companies to take the resources yourself, and I dunno maybe your mercantilism score affects how much of your own produced goods you get to keep vs selling on the market for cash. Maybe the trade system lets you buy goods from the node your merchant is in at normal prices, with higher and higher tariffs depending on how many nodes away the source good is, so you'd be incentivised to try to get your merchants into faraway nodes or something, and then eventually do things like conquering India or Macau when the merchants become less cost effective. Maybe that's too fiddly, I don't know, but I would like something more engaging for trade than "colonise Ivory Coast -> colonise Cape -> gradually monopolise all far eastern trade"
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Jun 9, 2020 15:02
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Well, if the forums die from the current drama, I'm gonna miss postin' about Paradox games with y'all on something awful dot com
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Jun 24, 2020 19:21
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Someone want to post an up-to-date link to the paradox goon discord?
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Jun 24, 2020 19:23
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well if this place goes up in smoke out of nowhere I just wanted to say that I always like the paradox game threads in this forum
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Jun 25, 2020 03:15
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AnEdgelord posted:well if this place goes up in smoke out of nowhere I just wanted to say that I always like the paradox game threads in this forum Same.
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Jun 25, 2020 03:51
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toxx for next paradox game to be about proto-indo-european expansion 5000 years ago
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Jun 25, 2020 04:00
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The grog discord has paradox channels. Basically the same people posting in both threads anyway.
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Jun 25, 2020 04:42
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mapgoons is the one you want.
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Jun 25, 2020 08:55
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https://discord.gg/as6gFg
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Jun 25, 2020 09:18
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Jun 25, 2020 09:53
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:toxx for next paradox game to be about proto-indo-european expansion 5000 years ago If they did this then Paradox would have to move away from a map striated by static provinces to a map based on smooth space. Which would be really cool but hard for them to do because provinces are such an ingrained part of all their games.
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Jun 25, 2020 09:59
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I'm not going to quote the goat man above but drat that's some nostalgia 
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Jun 25, 2020 10:03
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There's also North Paracord, a discord more loosely centred on paradox LPs, where you can come and despair with us about the fate of screenshot LPs if things really do go south. https://discord.gg/xaMpK7s
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Jun 25, 2020 10:10
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why are people making so many loving discords instead of just joining one or two
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Jun 25, 2020 11:14
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They have different purposes - Mapgoons is mostly around organizing MP games of paradox games and discussion being incidental to that (want your nazi-free HOI4 games? Place to go) while the other one is more about discussing running LPs and LPers. This is why discord is not a replacement for a forum and we should fight to reclaim our forum from Lowtaxes abusive grip.
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Jun 25, 2020 11:34
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