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After several attempts over the years, I finally finished reading the first Malazan book. I kept thinking that surely things would resolve, climax, make sense, in short order. So I kept giving it a couple more chapters of chances to do so. Jesus gently caress, what a steaming pile. Went back to read the reviews on amazon, and the general tone of the 5-star reviews was that those who don't like it just don't "get it". As if being a nonsensical morrass of bad storytelling was a "thing" that was to be savored. Mood:  The funniest reviews are those that invoke J Rail Road Martin and ASoIaF. Even the absolute fucker actually had a point to most of his characters. BuT mAh wOrLd BuIlDiNg!
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Jun 8, 2020 15:22
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Malazan is an example of what you get with an author who actively hates everyone reading his books. There's way worse stuff in the later books.
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Jun 8, 2020 15:36
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Malazan really bad. You actively have to cultivate trying to give a gently caress cause some goon once said it's good. I'm glad I gave up the third time the book just shifted to an entirely new part of the world with new characters and new weird fantasy mechanics.
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Jun 8, 2020 19:02
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Kylaer posted:Malazan is an example of what you get with an author who actively hates everyone reading his books. There's way worse stuff in the later books. Steven Erikson is actually a really cool guy that is great to his readers. During quarantine he's been sharing his latest Bauchelain and Korbal Broach novella page by page as he handwrites it. Also Malazan good.
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Jun 8, 2020 19:30
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I've read, i think, 5 Malazan books. The first one was almost uniformly uninteresting aside from some of the stuff in Darujhistan with the thief. Can't remember much else. The issue with Erikson is he has interesting ideas for the world but a complete inability to make me care about the characters. Don't care about any of the Bridgeburners, or that Captain that ends up holding the deck, a most of the soldiers are basically interchangeable. The worst have to be the younger (but still really old) dark elf people who wander around the world feeling sorry for themselves. The second book about the refugees fleeing across a huge distance is probably the best of the bunch. It has some affecting scenes from what I can remember, and some good commentary about how minorities are taken advantage of and their memories dishonored by ruling powers. I can see a world like that in the hands of an author who had a better voice for characters rather than events and races making something really interesting of the setting. Like Rothfuss has complete poo poo worldbuilding skills but is able to create more connection between reader and character. No way he could handle something as complex as Malazan though. Abercrombie could. Martin also has a good balance of confident world building and a good voice for character. Ccs fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Jun 8, 2020 |
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Jun 8, 2020 20:23
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I had to give up about a quarter-of-the-way into the seventh book, I have no idea how I lasted as long as I did. It's like ASOIAF if ASOIAF consisted entirely of Brienne's chapters.
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Jun 8, 2020 20:27
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I remember enjoying the Karsa chapters the most because he had more of a voice than the average Malazan character.
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Jun 8, 2020 20:37
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Vichan posted:It's like ASOIAF if ASOIAF consisted entirely of Brienne's chapters.
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Jun 8, 2020 20:47
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Ccs posted:I've read, i think, 5 Malazan books. The first one was almost uniformly uninteresting aside from some of the stuff in Darujhistan with the thief. Can't remember much else. The issue with Erikson is he has interesting ideas for the world but a complete inability to make me care about the characters. Don't care about any of the Bridgeburners, or that Captain that ends up holding the deck, a most of the soldiers are basically interchangeable. The worst have to be the younger (but still really old) dark elf people who wander around the world feeling sorry for themselves. Nice try, but when you wrote Rothuss, you gave it up as a joke.
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Jun 8, 2020 21:34
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I think Rothfuss actually does do a good job of getting the reader to care about the character. Even such a wildly inconsistent character as Kvothe. The issue is he never juggles more than one viewpoint, and the one he's written from only works in a narrow context where he's the ultimate smug little badass. So he wouldn't be able to write multiple flawed characters the way a sweeping fantasy series like Malazan requires.
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Jun 8, 2020 21:40
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Ccs posted:I remember enjoying the Karsa chapters the most because he had more of a voice than the average Malazan character. Karsa is the ultimate wish-fulfillment character, provided that your wish is to be a giant (literally and figuratively) murderous rapist.
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Jun 8, 2020 22:20
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You cowardly bastards. If I had to read all ten of those loving Mazalan books, you should have to as well. 
Deptfordx fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jun 8, 2020 |
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Jun 8, 2020 23:03
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I read the entire mainline Malazan series, and it took so long to come out (but at least it did) that the cover styles changed three times during the run.
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Jun 8, 2020 23:09
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I read the entire mainline Malazan series, and it took so long to come out (but at least it did) that the cover styles changed three times during the run. A ten book series that came out every second year and is like 11000. I believe I started the Malazan series after I had started reading GoT and of course finished it before. And with respect to rothuss, I never thought we needed BoL back but here we are.
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Jun 9, 2020 05:33
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mind the walrus posted:So roughly 1/5th of actual ASOIAF books I actually really like those kinds of chapters, but not if they drag on and on and on. I could stomach Brienne's chapters and even appreciate certain things, mostly because they're spread out and there's better chapters in between hers.
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Jun 9, 2020 13:44
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Hasselblad posted:After several attempts over the years, I finally finished reading the first Malazan book. I kept thinking that surely things would resolve, climax, make sense, in short order. So I kept giving it a couple more chapters of chances to do so. Malazon is an incomprehensible mess of a series which is to be expected when people turn their tabletop RPG sessions in to a novel. It's not as bad as Kingkiller but I'm not sure of any fantasy series that's as terrible as Kingkiller while having that same level of success. Sword of Truth comes to mind but I don't think that's quite as popular?
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Jun 9, 2020 21:25
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I read that certain characters in Malazan were created to help the story along as opposed to being "organically created through the role playing game" and the author always wanted to kill off those characters so he could get back to the "organic" ones, but those characters that were created for narrative purposes are my favorite.
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Jun 9, 2020 21:56
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Evil Fluffy posted:Malazon is an incomprehensible mess of a series which is to be expected when people turn their tabletop RPG sessions in to a novel. It's not as bad as Kingkiller but I'm not sure of any fantasy series that's as terrible as Kingkiller while having that same level of success. Sword of Truth comes to mind but I don't think that's quite as popular? Sword of Truth and, say, WoT were comparably popular in my experience when I was in HS. People fell off of Sword of Truth way faster tho. Man that series ... a rare time where a show adaptation changing and removing a bunch of poo poo improved it so much. Goddamn I miss Legend of the Seeker, that poo poo was fun af.
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Jun 9, 2020 22:04
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Ccs posted:I read that certain characters in Malazan were created to help the story along as opposed to being "organically created through the role playing game" and the author always wanted to kill off those characters so he could get back to the "organic" ones Lol, I'm assuming that's folks like the Master of the Deck and the Adjudant, whereas Erikson probably wanted to just focus on Fiddler.
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Jun 9, 2020 22:54
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Ccs posted:I've read, i think, 5 Malazan books. The first one was almost uniformly uninteresting aside from some of the stuff in Darujhistan with the thief. Can't remember much else. The issue with Erikson is he has interesting ideas for the world but a complete inability to make me care about the characters. Don't care about any of the Bridgeburners, or that Captain that ends up holding the deck, a most of the soldiers are basically interchangeable. The worst have to be the younger (but still really old) dark elf people who wander around the world feeling sorry for themselves. I think book 5 is about as far as I made it - if that's the one with the indigenous elf guy who goes murderously insane as a result of not being able to die but somehow ends up as the emperor of some invading nation and the other weird troll (?) dude who wanders the world smashing people to bits with his sword made of stone who is the only one who can kill a god? I only started reading that series because an old Army buddy recommended them - same guy got me reading GoT and the Black Company, so his judgment wasn't all bad I guess. FWIW I thought the first Malazan book was decent and Whiskeyjack and some of the other characters seemed interesting enough. I enjoyed the opening premise of trying to siege a floating city and all that, the various gods interfering, etc. Mostly the series felt like a bunch of cool ideas or scenes stitched together without enough character development and jumping from setting to setting every book didn't feel like it worked. I consider trying to do a re-read from time to time but just the thought is exhausting.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:28
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Mat Cauthon posted:same guy got me reading GoT (...) his judgment wasn't all bad I guess. 
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Jun 10, 2020 03:20
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Abercrombie is still at the top of my list for being able to juggle diverse locations, distinctive character voices, and the ability to actually finish a book on schedule.
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Jun 10, 2020 03:27
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Deptfordx posted:You cowardly bastards. If I had to read all ten of those loving Mazalan books, you should have to as well. Dude, it literally took me more than 3 attempts to read that first steaming pile of a disjointed cesspool. Throughout the entire book I had no idea what motivated any single character, who were "good guys" (or just who I should actually give a single poo poo about), and there was ZERO overarching point to it all, and no ending to speak of because I had no idea what the point of any of it was. A prime example being the adjunct, bemoaning the wholesale slaughter of a small army and a fishing village, but then intentionally freeing a blooptybloop tyrant that is like one of the Cthulu old gods who is all powerful and doesn't even need a boddy, and can smash entire civilizations with a flick of it's finger, because reasons... and then it is simply just snuffed out by someone who I had no idea if a major character or not... because reasons... and then the adjunct being killed abruptly by yet another new characters out of nowhere, because reasons... and it's acorn thing that became a tree stump and then became a house in a garden of a palace or something that things happened for no reason I could discern. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK Seriously, gently caress whomever convinced folks to read this crap. How in the everliving gently caress does something like this get published, unless the publisher was tripping on shrooms. And I read House of Leaves a couple times, so I am not new to the whole disjointed mess gimmick. Hasselblad fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 05:54
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Hasselblad posted:Seriously, gently caress whomever convinced folks to read this crap. How in the everliving gently caress does something like this get published, unless the publisher was tripping on shrooms. It's funny this effect this dead forum has on our chimp brains We read a book we don't enjoy and our brain goes "but this dude you know nothing about said it's totally better than this book you did enjoy, why don't you read a few more hundred pages to decide? After all he posts on something awful, that means he had at least ten dollars to frivolously spend at one point in his life". Stupid brain.
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Jun 10, 2020 07:05
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Hasselblad posted:Dude, it literally took me more than 3 attempts to read that first steaming pile of a disjointed cesspool. Throughout the entire book I had no idea what motivated any single character, who were "good guys" (or just who I should actually give a single poo poo about), and there was ZERO overarching point to it all, and no ending to speak of because I had no idea what the point of any of it was. You should read Bakker.
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Jun 10, 2020 07:30
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emanresu tnuocca posted:It's funny this effect this dead forum has on our chimp brains
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Jun 10, 2020 07:54
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Cardiac posted:You should read Bakker. Even I gave up on Bakker after the first trilogy .
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Jun 10, 2020 09:53
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emanresu tnuocca posted:It's funny this effect this dead forum has on our chimp brains It is even more infuriating reading all of the 5 star reviews on amazon that flat out white knight erikson, claiming that he intentionally “challenges readers” because he is THAT GOOD.
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Jun 10, 2020 14:40
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Hasselblad posted:Dude, it literally took me more than 3 attempts to read that first steaming pile of a disjointed cesspool. Throughout the entire book I had no idea what motivated any single character, who were "good guys" (or just who I should actually give a single poo poo about), and there was ZERO overarching point to it all, and no ending to speak of because I had no idea what the point of any of it was. Did you know it was originally pitched as a film script? Can you imagine them trying to market it to general audiences?
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Jun 10, 2020 15:02
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Get Michael Bay to direct it, make it purely about explosions, make no attempt to explain anything or have any sort of identifiable plot, and it would be a smash hit.
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Jun 10, 2020 15:04
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Ccs posted:Did you know it was originally pitched as a film script? Can you imagine them trying to market it to general audiences? Hey, Magnolia was made. I would put nothing past hollywood at this point.
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Jun 10, 2020 15:23
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esperterra posted:Sword of Truth and, say, WoT were comparably popular in my experience when I was in HS. People fell off of Sword of Truth way faster tho. I didn't realize Legend of the Seeker was based on those books when I first started watching it (though it clicked pretty fast) since I never got in to the books. I can only assume the people behind the show knew how absurd the source was and figured going the Hercules/Xena camp route would make it worth watching (it did). Ccs posted:Abercrombie is still at the top of my list for being able to juggle diverse locations, distinctive character voices, and the ability to actually finish a book on schedule. Now he just needs to write something worth reading, because First Law was terrible.
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Jun 10, 2020 15:35
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Evil Fluffy posted:Now he just needs to write something worth reading, because First Law was terrible. The Heroes is one of the best fantasy novels I've ever read.
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Jun 10, 2020 16:11
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Just clearing out my 400 new posts tag on this thread to make sure there's absolutely no whiff of a new book. ayup carry on
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Jun 10, 2020 17:15
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Evil Fluffy posted:Now he just needs to write something worth reading, because First Law was terrible. Abercrombie basically writes novelised comics based on standard archetypes. As for erikson, one should start with book number 2 and if one doesn’t like it, there is no point continuing. The Malazan series is good, just not for everyone. Same goes for Sanderson, who I just don’t find interesting. Although the latter is probably someone this thread will have to live with.
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Jun 10, 2020 17:24
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Erikson describing Darujistan(?) in book 1 was probably the most I was immersed in the world looking back at it.
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Jun 10, 2020 17:36
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Funny how this thread only gets posts when it’s discussing other book series.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:23
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Maybe we can just pretend gurm wrote a book for a few pages, screw up with the next guy who drops into the thread after a while and jumps to the last post?
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Jun 10, 2020 20:25
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https://twitter.com/AsteadWesley/status/1270744709015711744?s=20
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Jun 11, 2020 00:18
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 18:37 |
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They wanted to make Confederate.
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Jun 11, 2020 00:20
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