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OwlFancier posted:(in addition to your previous probes, which for the purposes of this conversation I'm willing to ignore) gently caress me, like me getting probed on Something Awful is some kind of major event!
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Jun 10, 2020 02:16
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so are you planning on engaging with anybody's actual points or
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Jun 10, 2020 02:20
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Given that your previous posts were to engage in apologetics for the conservatives persecution of travellers and to post some extremely objectionable and wrong poo poo about transpeople, whether or not you think they're notable they are extremely relevant to the sort of view people might form of you, thus I think I am being quite generous by pretending I do not have that context for the purposes of this discussion. However if that is the only part of the post you are willing to engage with, I could waive that charity if you would prefer? The choice remains yours. The opportunity is still there to prove me wrong, all it takes is a position.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:23
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These bloody lefties, eh? These days you can't even say you're a systematic enterprise for obtaining knowledge through testable explanations and predictions without being thrown in jail for racism
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Jun 10, 2020 03:19
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OwlFancier posted:Given that your previous posts were to engage in apologetics for the conservatives persecution of travellers and to post some extremely objectionable and wrong poo poo about transpeople, whether or not you think they're notable they are extremely relevant to the sort of view people might form of you, thus I think I am being quite generous by pretending I do not have that context for the purposes of this discussion. To be fair, I have changed my opinions in 10 years. That's my bad because I wasn't born righteous and free from sin as so many of you where. I don't think many of the things you talk about can't be equally if not better explained by class and inequality. I think it's wrong and divisive to make everything about race and identity and that addressing issues of systemic inequality would have far better outcomes for black, white or any group. I think the majority of people in the UK are not racist by any reasonable definition of the word and that the relentless promotion by some of the left of race and identity being more important than your lived experience and actions has made things worse and weakened their case. For example White working class children have nearly, or actually, the worst education and life outcomes of all children in the UK, and yet somehow you want them to accept that everything is about race and their white privilege? I think the adoption of the problems and politics of the US is bad for the UK, they are not interchangeable in many ways. I don't think science and academia is racist, I think it's a product of inequality and class. The fact that the white working class is the least likely to go to university I think backs this up. I don't think inserting politics into science or claiming that science has an intrinsic racist bias is true. I'm for higher taxes, I'm for putting huge amounts of money into education, the NHS, getting rid of private hospitals. I've never voted Tory, I have voted Green and Labour. I nearly voted for Brexit because I don't like the EU as an institution very much at all and I'm always surprised by the support it suddenly has on the left. I think Corbyn could have owned that if he stuck to his principles. I ended up voting remain probably because of fear of change and because my profession relies on EU workers a lot. I found myself in the strange position of not wanting to be in EU and not liking any of the people who wanted to leave. This is life and democracy though, I accept people, even people I love, have opinions I dislike and can't understand. I'd rather vote on it than have correct thought imposed on people. I see the Traveller community as causing problems, having encountered it first hand I accept my opinion is probably biased. I am not sure what the solution is. I have the guardian, the atlantic, the ny times and the conversation all bookmarked in my browser. I find all of them at times illuminating and frustrating. I realise you all think I've just listed some kind of fascistic reading list. I'm the member of a union. All in all I'm probably more on your side than not. I'm not going to flagellate myself in public though, I'm not going to accept that I am intrinsically racist. I'm not going to deny facts or science because other people don't want it to be true. I was happily becoming more and more socialist as I grew up but I'll be honest, the vocal "far left" that is now seeing their influence peak has completely turned me off and made me disengage for the most part. I suspect you will only see Labours and the lefts share of the vote decline as you continue down this path. There you go. That's my opinions. I can't wait to learn all the things wrong with me
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Jun 10, 2020 03:45
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Party Boat posted:These bloody lefties, eh? These days you can't even say you're a systematic enterprise for obtaining knowledge through testable explanations and predictions without being thrown in jail for racism Did someone mention strawmen earlier?
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Jun 10, 2020 03:46
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Oh, you're still here. Great! Let's figure out what your argument is instead of making it some weird personal history. What scientific facts, specifically, are the left ignoring or calling racist?
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Jun 10, 2020 04:03
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Illuminti posted:To be fair, I have changed my opinions in 10 years. That's my bad because I wasn't born righteous and free from sin as so many of you where. I think that this suggests a lack of understanding of how race and identity intersect with class. White privilege does not mean that you are living the high life because you're white, it means that for your situation, you would likely be far worse off if you were not white, all else being equal. There are ideas I've heard about why poor white (boys usually) kids perform particularly badly, and I think one of the most compelling is that children of colour are pushed very hard by their parents to succeed in school exactly because they will be so badly affected by it if they don't, because of racism, structural and individual. This, I would suggest, is not a good state of affairs because I don't think any children should be forced to live with that sort of fear and pressure. Certainly if you do not think racism is a factor then it's rather difficult to suggest why there would be a racial gap in either direction in educational performance as distinct from class based differences. I also do not think that anybody goes up to poor white children and yells at them about their white privilege, so acknowledging racism in society is not at odds with looking at specific problems such as white working class kids educational outcomes. Illuminti posted:I think the adoption of the problems and politics of the US is bad for the UK, they are not interchangeable in many ways. Spangly already explained this quite thoroughly but I will attempt to do so as well. The concept of empirical study to determine the nature of reality, is not racist, though I would take issue with its ability to measure many aspects of the human experience and the effect this has on people for whom the immaterial elements of the human experience are important, which to a degree is everybody but is also gendered and racialized too, women and black people are often portrayed as hysterical and irrational because they have emotional reactions to things that immediately affect their lives, and this is used as a means to undermine or refuse to engage with their positions because they have not followed the proper, moderate, enlightened decorum. As you can clearly see employed against the current protests. It is wrong to be emotional about systemic police murder of black people, you must go through the proper channels otherwise it is not the systemic police murder that is wrong, it is you. Being emotional about murder is worse than murder, you see. As you can doubtless imagine this also has a strong class component, with working class people being far less likely to hold degrees and be versed in the proper "scientific" modes of communication, and also with working class people being far more likely to be angry or frustrated about their urgent needs in their situation, which is a very helpful tool to delegitimize those needs. The more desperate you are, the less scientific you are, and thus "science" functions in the manner of court french, or latin, or any other helpful historical way to keep the plebes away from the levers of power. Do you have a qualification? If not then you're far less likely to get invited on the BBC as an "expert" to talk about something. I wonder what the people most likely to have qualifications and positions of authority look like, I wonder how much money they have compared to the majority of the working class? This, again, is not a problem with the concept of using empirical observation to attempt to understand the world, but it is a problem with people who try to mandate that only what they can empirically measure, is real. This becomes a further problem when you consider the gender and racial makeup of academic bodies, government, policy influencers etc, who may all appeal to "scientific" approaches with the effect, intentional or accidental, of devaluing the input of people who do not adhere to that approach. If a person is starving and begging for food, and the government says "you have not submitted a peer reviewed study to prove that you are starving or that you need to eat, therefore we do not see a reason to act" then you can perhaps imagine why the starving person hasn't done that and why the appeal to being "scientific" is a political problem. People who point this out are not "inserting" politics into science, because everything is political, scientific processes produce weapons, scientific processes dictate medical policy which leads to things like the classification of homosexuality and being transgendered as a mental disorder to be corrected via electrodes and drugs and mental health sectioning. Scientific processes are what the conservative government has invoked every step of the way to justify why tens of thousands of people should die of coronavirus. I do not think it is remotely possible to pretend that "science" is not political. Everything is political, you can't escape from it. The reason people look at the US and find common cause with their politics is because they see parallels with their own situation. Black people in the UK look at the US and see their own life echoed in the experience of people there. Why would there be a hard separation? We are both western capitalist english speaking multiracial representative democracies with vast wealth inequality, why would you think there could be no crossover? Illuminti posted:I see the Traveller community as causing problems, having encountered it first hand I accept my opinion is probably biased. I am not sure what the solution is. I have heard my entire life how travellers are all thieves and criminals, though I can't say I have ever actually experienced it. But I would also suggest that I've heard that about working class white people in general as well, and I have experienced that. I would suggest, however, that perhaps this is because crime correlates strongly with poverty, because people who haven't got gently caress all are more inclined to 1. Not give as much of a poo poo about a society that hasn't done anything other than call them thieves and criminals. 2. Have a material need for money and commodities that they can't get through a nice, comfortable, well paid job like the upper echelons of society can. And 3. Are disproportionately targeted by the police for an excuse to prosectute them for something and punitive sentencing, while the middle and upper classes get let off, or get light sentencing if they do end up in court. Being in prison increases people's likelihood of further criminal activity because it makes it harder to get legit work afterwards and certainly doesn't make you think society gives a poo poo about you any more. And so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. This also has a strong racial component. If only there were a current political movement that had a lot to say about the effect policing and crime has on working class people... Illuminti posted:I have the guardian, the atlantic, the ny times and the conversation all bookmarked in my browser. I find all of them at times illuminating and frustrating. I realise you all think I've just listed some kind of fascistic reading list. I wouldn't read any of them because they're all written by middle class journos giving tepid as poo poo takes. You can read what you want but I would suggest trying to be aware that tepid middle class journo takes are likely to influence your politics. Illuminti posted:All in all I'm probably more on your side than not. I'm not going to flagellate myself in public though, I'm not going to accept that I am intrinsically racist. I'm not going to deny facts or science because other people don't want it to be true. Nobody is asking you to "flagellate yourself in public" and I again would suggest that perhaps you've been reading some pretty poo poo takes if you think that anybody gives a poo poo about you enough to want that. What people on the left want is good politics and good action. And yes, we tend strongly towards being extremely concerned with equality between races and genders as well as class issues, because class intersects with all of these things. Rich trans people can afford millions of pounds of surgery and can travel to get it, whatever the law says. Working class trans people are dependent on the health provision of things like the NHS and the laws of the only country they can live in, and have to live and work in what might be very hostile environments while doing that. Rich gay people can be gay in private clubs where the law doesn't reach and be chauferred everywhere. Working class gay people until quite recently had to fear being raided by the cops and having their bars shut down, or being beaten up in the street (possibly also by the cops). Rich black people are not subjected to systemic poverty and job discrimination because they are rich, and that gets them things that poor black people are systemically exlcuded from because of racism. Race, gender, sexuality, all of these things paint the class divide and it is very important for us, on the left, to make our comrades problems our own problems. Because we love our comrades, our comrades are our family and we care when they are hurt, and we want them to care about us when we are hurt. And through our union and kinship, we forge our mutual pain into a weapon that can cut to the heart of the society that would keep us and everyone else under the boot. And we can free everybody from it. Caring about each other isn't just performance, it is the heart of ourselves, it comes from who we are and it forms the basis of the society we want, it is the shield we put up to protect ourselves and it is the weapon we use to strike back. And the more we exercise that bond the stronger it becomes. And the more people we can integrate into it, the stronger we get. If there is hope for a better future, it lies in that. In our desire not to say "Oh well that's not my problem so it's probably not real" but instead to say "Share your problem with me, let me understand it, let me make it mine, and let us fix it together, as I hope you will for me someday." But that requires coming at people with a position of vulnerability, it requires coming at people in the hope that they will change you, not the other way around. It requires letting people into yourself and it requires understanding that a lot of our comrades have spent their entire lives being told that their problems aren't real, and if you come in doing the same thing, they're not gonna want to form a bond with you. We're generally pretty good at recognizing when people have the right attitude, are willing to be changed as they change us, but we're also pretty sensitive to people who give every impression of being just out to yell at the void. And a lot of us do not have the ability to keep a level head in the face of that, because we are by necessity the people who have been hammered with that every day of our lives. And it gets very tiring. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 04:25
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Party Boat posted:Oh, you're still here. Great! Let's figure out what your argument is instead of making it some weird personal history. Unfortunately your shame bell will have to go unrung, you can feel free to ignore me but I'm not playing the game. I'm well aware you have an answer to all my opinions that will no doubt have me crawling away in shame to the sound of your jeers
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Jun 10, 2020 04:37
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I'm not looking to shame you, I'm just genuinely confused about your continued refusal to present any specifics, which was why my knee jerk reaction was to make fun of you.
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Jun 10, 2020 04:45
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Illuminti posted:Unfortunately your shame bell will have to go unrung, you can feel free to ignore me but I'm not playing the game. I'm well aware you have an answer to all my opinions that will no doubt have me crawling away in shame to the sound of your jeers if you think being asked to explain your opinions is some kind of trick it kind of says something about the quality of your opinions
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Jun 10, 2020 04:56
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Party Boat posted:I'm not looking to shame you, I'm just genuinely confused about your continued refusal to present any specifics, which was why my knee jerk reaction was to make fun of you. I've given loads of specifics as evidenced by OwlFanciers ability to write a long reply to me (which I will respond to later when I have time). It's painfully obvious that what you actually wanted was for me to utter some blasphemy which you could leap on. Which by the way is one of the things I specifically find so unpleasant about this thread and certain aspects of the left. Dabir posted:if you think being asked to explain your opinions is some kind of trick it kind of says something about the quality of your opinions No it says something about the way anyone who deviates from correct thought is treated. Party Boat posted:I would be more than happy for you to ignore me and respond to OwlFancier's excellent post instead though. Consider it done. But it will have to wait a while, I'm already wasting time! It says something when I'm so easily distracted by arguing with strangers on the internet.... Illuminti fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 04:56
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I would be more than happy for you to ignore me and respond to OwlFancier's excellent post instead though. Oh whoops, we posted at the same time. That's fair - you went into a lot of detail about your beliefs and politics. I was just puzzled by the denial of science assertion, because even in that long post you only said that "others" want to deny "facts and science". I genuinely don't know who the "others" are and what "facts and science" they want to deny. We could very well be in agreement on this, but unless you elaborate we'll never know. Party Boat fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 04:57
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For what it's worth I think you should pay particular attention to the last bit because I am not even going to begin to suggest that people in the thread are doing wrong by dunking on you. I think I've explained pretty emphatically why people do that and why we close ranks around some subjects. It is an important social component in how we work as a group, and I want to point out that if you keep objecting only to the cohesion and not the substance of why the position we coalesce around is wrong, then it's only going to harden. Attacking the fact that we have a consensus in our views on a subject rather than the views themselves is not going to change anybody's mind and it's also a very poor argument, and very unscientific, if you are still keen on that. I do not think there are a lot of other areas of your life where you would view achieving consensus as a bad thing, and I have explained why doing so is important to a lot of people ITT, personally, politically, and socially.
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Jun 10, 2020 05:30
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It's a debate and discussion thread, people might call you a twat for having poo poo opinions but at least have the courage to post your opinions rather than swanning in and going "I shan't be sharing many specifics of what I believe because I just know you're all waiting to pounce on me  " as if that proves, or even means, anything. Otherwise you're just a cheap Pissflaps clone and we might as well get back the unalloyed original.Plenty of people have posted bad takes in this thread before. And some of them have been driven off because they're being trolls or fascists, but there are plenty of examples of honest differences of opinion being discussed in good faith, and there are also numerous examples of someone coming in with a bad hot take, getting dunked on, but also getting useful information and then changing their minds. Not naming names but a year or two ago someone came in with some real reckons on trans people, and whilst some of us called them a knob, some of us also took the time to explain the details of why we thought they were wrong. And guess what they listened, changed their minds, and sent me a PM apologizing and thanking me for being patient with them! So like, posting your thoughts is good actually? Maybe you'll learn something? Maybe you are right about some things (or all things!) and can persuade some of us? I especially don't understand your belief that we all think we were born into this world with perfect and unerring knowledge of the immortal science of Marxism-Leninism. Most of us have posted stories about beliefs we used to have that now regard as terrible, and have discussed at length what it was that started changing our mind. It's drat near a rite of passage on the leftist internet to do exactly that, in fact.
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Jun 10, 2020 06:10
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The specific question "do British people support or not support self-ID in gender recognition reform" strikes me as an empirical question, but perhaps not a scientific one as such (outside of psephology) "should British people support or not support self-ID in gender recognition reform" would be a combination of scientifics and ethics but I feel like this was not the original contention
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Jun 10, 2020 06:50
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I think there's a further, sociological question that could be asked about the extent to which British people already practise self-ID in their day to day lives. I've seen the genitals of very few of my friends and colleagues, but have no problem with treating them as the gender they present as.
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Jun 10, 2020 07:36
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I appreciate Illuminti's post to a certain extent as it captures how a few of my friends are feeling - to say they're left leaning but recent action has alienated them in some way or that they don't think they're racist/the UK doesn't have a problem with racism or things are just going 'too far'. But at least they're willing to talk about it. Like with any view I think it's good to question why it is you have that view; - does your stance benefit yourself moreso than other people in your community? - would your stance benefit existing organisations moreso than they are now? - does it help the poorest in society? People with disabilities? Women? etc. - who would suffer most and where do they stand now in society? Does it invert a power structure or support it? - who is on your side? I used to be quite libertarian and think people should have the freedom to do what they want, and I hand waved any holes in my thoughts from the questions above as 'it'd sort itself out' - but it wouldn't. Nobody is born and has perfect, pure views on things and life is about learning and unlearning things until you're more right than wrong. I consider myself relatively intelligent and reasonable, but my political knowledge needs work, so that's why I lurked/post ITT. It's okay to be wrong. There's a whole subforum about racial issues to read through. And if you're lurking and feel like current news isn't syncronising up with your worldview as someone left leaning/centrist/someone who voted Corbyn but this is too much - post away! Don't be scared of OwlFancier. Asking good faith questions is chill - an I feel dumb as poo poo sometimes and that doesn't stop me posting  Off to a job interview, have a good day goons
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Jun 10, 2020 08:13
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Drone_Fragger posted:And this is the entire reason why labour is a pile of poo poo, and the voting system in this country is a pile of poo poo. Best we can do is vote green before starmer decides he's going to run with "sell your parents house to the government while they're still living in it to get onto the housing ladder yourself!" or instead of voting green just don't vote. i'm almost certainly never voting again. who knows the white uk left might end up talking about literally anything besides the labour party.
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Jun 10, 2020 08:20
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https://twitter.com/BellRibeiroAddy/status/1270404888757972993?s=20 lol why didn't Keir and Angela join this one instead of posing on their own in an empty office? it would still have been a bit of a cringe photo opportunity but at least they would be kneeling in solidarity with some actual BAME colleagues would still have been egregious to claim that he was doing it in support of "all" people protesting against racism, given his comments during his cosy conversation with the racialist nick Ferrari, but might have been something unless he's somewhere in the background? it's quite lo res but there's someone who could be the absolute boy on the back left
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Jun 10, 2020 08:28
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I've never understood the whole "I was a leftist but someone on the left was mean to me so I ran to the right." attitude. If someone on the left meaning mean to you means you abandon your beliefs then you're either a liar , coward or both.
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Jun 10, 2020 08:40
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https://twitter.com/PopulismExpert/status/1270619600502341632?s=20
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Jun 10, 2020 08:46
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Why on earth didn't bill clinton pay for his own drat oxford?
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Jun 10, 2020 08:48
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Party Boat posted:I think there's a further, sociological question that could be asked about the extent to which British people already practise self-ID in their day to day lives. I've seen the genitals of very few of my friends and colleagues, but have no problem with treating them as the gender they present as. indeed the challenge seems to seizing the right framing - a slim but robust majority back trans rights and nonbinary identities but also favour single-sex spaces (bathrooms, wards, prisons) the median citizen probably backs both "a transgender woman is a woman" and "a self-identifying transgender woman with a penis is not a woman for the purposes of my NHS single-sex ward", first-order logic be damned I've noted at length about innumeracy and framing before... this strikes me as the same category of problem as the struggle over framing the debate on immigration
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Jun 10, 2020 08:52
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bessantj posted:I've never understood the whole "I was a leftist but someone on the left was mean to me so I ran to the right." attitude. If someone on the left meaning mean to you means you abandon your beliefs then you're either a liar , coward or both. It's because a lot of liberals like to think of themselves as 'soft left' or 'left' because they know the right wing is bad about a lot of subjects they care about, but actual, real left positions scare them. So it's a good way to rationalise it for themselves. This is because their politics are built on: a) I have people I disagree with (the right wing) b) I don't want to inconvenience myself because I'm not in the 0.1% of wealth haver so why should I suffer? Left positions make those two things clash and that makes them uncomfortable so they can add 'the hard left' to point one and still think they're good people (for opposing the right) without compromising point b. Or they're just 'socially liberal, fiscally conservative' and I don't think anybody needs me to post the 'the outcomes are bad but the causes.. the causes are very good!' tweet again.
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Jun 10, 2020 08:58
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XMNN posted:https://twitter.com/BellRibeiroAddy/status/1270404888757972993?s=20 I know it comes from Kaepernick’s protest and all but given this whole conflagration started with a cop kneeling on a black guy’s neck until he suffocated the ‘kneeling in solidarity’ kind of rubs me the wrong way
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Jun 10, 2020 09:01
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Feels a lot like the NHS clap to be honest. Especially coupled with "pulling down slaver statues is wrong at a time when planning permission is ongoing" Photo ops good, any sort of actual action bad.
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Jun 10, 2020 09:03
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XMNN posted:https://twitter.com/BellRibeiroAddy/status/1270404888757972993?s=20 bessantj posted:I've never understood the whole "I was a leftist but someone on the left was mean to me so I ran to the right." attitude. If someone on the left meaning mean to you means you abandon your beliefs then you're either a liar , coward or both.
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Jun 10, 2020 09:07
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Miftan posted:It's because a lot of liberals like to think of themselves as 'soft left' or 'left' because they know the right wing is bad about a lot of subjects they care about, but actual, real left positions scare them. So it's a good way to rationalise it for themselves. This is because their politics are built on: That's just lying to themselves. So they use "The Hard Left" for anything they don't care for? Miftan posted:Or they're just 'socially liberal, fiscally conservative' and I don't think anybody needs me to post the 'the outcomes are bad but the causes.. the causes are very good!' tweet again. That was such a good tweet. There's a great Rage Against the Machine thread on twitter right now. Did you know they're suddenly a political band?
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Jun 10, 2020 09:11
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Spangly A posted:if you I really liked this one.
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Jun 10, 2020 09:11
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Virtue signalling is literally what I was thinking of when I saw the US ones, yeah. Like it's a very good example of what the phrase literally means.
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Jun 10, 2020 09:11
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bessantj posted:I've never understood the whole "I was a leftist but someone on the left was mean to me so I ran to the right." attitude. If someone on the left meaning mean to you means you abandon your beliefs then you're either a liar , coward or both. Or just incredibly petty. Or reactionary of the very juvenile kind, a bit like when kids go all "gently caress you dad" and adopt the exact opposite belief system to their parents (sidenote: this is not how i became a leftist, my parents were apolitical right up until the moment they retired and spent the whole day watching sky news and browsing facebook) e: lol: ronya posted:I've noted at length Microplastics fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 09:17
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OwlFancier, do you write about this sort of stuff in any sort of professional capacity, or even for non professional publications? You consistently deliver the most lucid explanation and defence of left wing ideology that I've come across, and I think if more people read your posts than just those in this dead forum, we (well, you) could convert more people to the cause.
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Jun 10, 2020 09:20
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Or just incredibly petty. See - all the blairites with disappointed Marxist parents
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Jun 10, 2020 09:20
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bessantj posted:That's just lying to themselves. So they use "The Hard Left" for anything they don't care for? For anything that makes them uncomfortable or demands sacrifice from them, ie interferes with B. This also applies to the statues for some people because they know that if this stuff happens through due process, their lives won't be interrupted (like how the slave owners got paid when slavery was abolished), but direct action makes them nervous because there's no filter to make sure they don't have to sacrifice their privilege. This is all my own psychoanalysis, obviously. bessantj posted:That was such a good tweet.  For anyone who hasn't.
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Jun 10, 2020 09:22
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https://twitter.com/ChrChristensen/status/1270624422387503104?s=20 https://twitter.com/ChrChristensen/status/1270630411836821504?s=20
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Jun 10, 2020 09:22
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ah yes bad: - owned a lot of slaves - wanted to keep all his slaves good: - built a dock to get all the stuff made by his slaves into London truly Mr Milligan was a land of contrasts
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Jun 10, 2020 09:22
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bessantj posted:There's a great Rage Against the Machine thread on twitter right now. Did you know they're suddenly a political band? I'm presuming that's sarcastic. It will come as no surprise to anyone that the COVID-19 safety net spending is going to be paid for by ending local council services. Not scaling back or even slashing; councils are just going to cease offering them. I expect the first thing to go will be all branch libraries, but social work is right behind because it's already nearly bankrupt.
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Jun 10, 2020 09:23
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OwlFancier posted:Why on earth didn't bill clinton pay for his own drat oxford? Don't be silly you don't get to be a rich shithead by paying for stuff.
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Jun 10, 2020 09:26
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Or just incredibly petty. I do forget that pettiness never seems to go away no matter how old people get or how "logical" they think themselves. Miftan posted:For anything that makes them uncomfortable or demands sacrifice from them, ie interferes with B. This also applies to the statues for some people because they know that if this stuff happens through due process, their lives won't be interrupted (like how the slave owners got paid when slavery was abolished), but direct action makes them nervous because there's no filter to make sure they don't have to sacrifice their privilege. This is all my own psychoanalysis, obviously. I think "sacrifice their privilege" is a good way to put it. Jedit posted:I'm presuming that's sarcastic. Not for everyone, unfortunately.
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Jun 10, 2020 09:30
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