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Wasn't the suggestion that it has something to do with the permeation of second wave greer types into the academic establishment in britain? Who are now very annoyed that our understanding has evolved since they were considered radically progressive and they're now radically conservative?
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Jun 10, 2020 19:57
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I heard Keir Starmer speak and emote for the first time today (I'm not from the UK). I knew getting someone like Corbyn in charge again was probably not going to happen, but I wouldn't have guessed that a British Mitt Romney would become the new leader of the Labour Party. Definitely a shift in a new direction.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:00
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Lots of British people genuinely seem to believe that being British is some kind of superpower, so BritTERFs are probably a subset of that
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Jun 10, 2020 20:01
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Ms Adequate posted:Also if someone's kid is bursting for a wee and the parents' gender's loos are rammed, I've never seen it be a problem for them to go into the other loos. Usually not a problem if one has a huge line and the other is empty for the adults to do so either. It's not commonplace but it's not exactly once in a blue moon. For a while my daughter insisted I (a cis man & obviously presenting as such) had to accompany her in the women's toilets when we were out at places. She used to be fine with going in the gents but one day just declared "No those are for boys - I'm not going in there" and I quickly found that her being absolutely desperate for a piss is a strong negotiating tactic* so I'd cave. Every single time we'd be in the toilets, people would come in, see me milling around and I'd sheepishly apologise that my daughter insisted I be there. I'd call for my daughter and she'd confirm that it was cool I was there (and usually give the room an update on what she was doing) and I never had an issue. I'd say about 90% of the time they'd laugh at me for being daft at thinking there was an issue at all / sweetly patronise for how obvious it was that I was a new father. (There's a long post I'd like to make about a paper I'm writing on intent, trust and knowing other minds that I think fits this topic well but I don't have time  so you all only get toilet anecdotes for now)* The David Cameron approach
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Jun 10, 2020 20:03
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And how many places even have gender-segregated changing rooms for trying on clothes and shite anyway? They're already private once you draw the curtain lmao
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OwlFancier posted:Wasn't the suggestion that it has something to do with the permeation of second wave greer types into the academic establishment in britain? Who are now very annoyed that our understanding has evolved since they were considered radically progressive and they're now radically conservative? It could well be. I have a running joke with my partner that Greer is to her what Dawkins is to me, in the sense that they were big teenage influences that we've both now moved well past but have some residual begrudging respect for in spite of their going completely off the deep end in various ways.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:05
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pitch a fitness posted:For a while my daughter insisted I (a cis man & obviously presenting as such) had to accompany her in the women's toilets when we were out at places. She used to be fine with going in the gents but one day just declared "No those are for boys - I'm not going in there" and I quickly found that her being absolutely desperate for a piss is a strong negotiating tactic* so I'd cave. I wonder what they think of trans parents. No, I don't, they don't think of things that don't fit their nonsensical worldview at all.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:23
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Jippa posted:How legitimate is https://www.businessinsider.com I often see it linked on reddit to stories about russia/brexit etc. I never know what to make of it though it seems quite click baity. Kind of the same as the modern Independent - functional as a news source, and generally fine to cite, but a bit lightweight in content and journalistic quality.
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Jun 10, 2020 20:26
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thespaceinvader posted:Given the obsession so many of these people have with reproduction and menstruation, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that being a parent absolves you of an AWFUL lot of things. Isomermaid posted:the UK turns into a total transphobic fashy nightmare Guavanaut posted:the Greer era women's lib wing came out swinging that they want to chemically castrate our precious little girls and we have no idea of what the long term effects are and menstruating is a natural and glorious part of being a woman, then some planes hit a building and the whole thing wasn't talked about for a while, but the whole thing is eerily reminiscent of the way the terves are talking about trans boys now. They've fought half of this war before. Now I'm not suggesting that we do another 9/11 to derail it, and given how Rowling decided to have a TERF day instead of using her platform to condemn racism chances are if 9/11 happened now she'd be merrily tweeting about the trans threat as people were jumping out of the burning building, but looking back at what happened then might be a useful point for trans people and allies.
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Jun 10, 2020 21:06
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i or someone else in one of the ealrier threads posted a twitter thread about how this idea tons of people detransition all came from 1 person and what was seemingly a fake charity anyone remember it?
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Jun 10, 2020 21:26
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JK Rowling keeps doubling down, she a scumbag
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Jun 10, 2020 21:26
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Jose posted:i or someone else in one of the ealrier threads posted a twitter thread about how this idea tons of people detransition all came from 1 person and what was seemingly a fake charity
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Jun 10, 2020 21:27
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cheers this about the maya forstater case is worth a read https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/j-k-rowling-s-maya-forstater-tweets-support-hostile-work-ncna1105201
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Jun 10, 2020 21:44
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Apparently George Floyd and his murderer Derek Chauvin knew each other from working at a nightclub in Minneapolis together. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-minneapolis-nightclub-worked-together-a4464706.html quote:George Floyd and murder accused Derek Chauvin clashed while working together at Minneapolis nightclub, says co-worker
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Jun 10, 2020 21:45
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thespaceinvader posted:Given the obsession so many of these people have with reproduction and menstruation, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that being a parent absolves you of an AWFUL lot of things. I hadn't thought in those specific terms before but yeah possibly. that's pretty funny though as I wasn't yet her dad (adopting's sometimes v slow) but was never going to be challenged on that. I just always saw it as amusing that for those specific circumstances she was, in effect, the one in charge & as much as she needed my help, I felt like I needed her help far more.
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Jun 10, 2020 21:50
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Jose posted:this about the maya forstater case is worth a read https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/j-k-rowling-s-maya-forstater-tweets-support-hostile-work-ncna1105201 Like, yeah, it is. Go read some intermediate or advanced biology.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:00
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genuinely awful that rowling just gets to promotely blatantly false statistics to millions of people with no consequence
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Jun 10, 2020 22:01
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Well that's the point isn't it? Your kid has their own identity and you're helping to facilitate that, which is ideally what everyone would do.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:01
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Guavanaut posted:Why do terves always say "it's basic biology" like it makes them sound cool? It's the same as people saying "I realised x was bad when I was a kid!" as if it supports their opinion.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:09
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Man, it must be years now since I had a pint of Doom Bar. It used to be the best bitter on tap at one of my local pubs. I liked the stuff.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:11
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Munin posted:Man, it must be years now since I had a pint of Doom Bar. It used to be the best bitter on tap at one of my local pubs. I liked the stuff. It's a gateway ale.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:12
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From the Rowling blogquote:I’m also aware through extensive research that studies have consistently shown that between 60-90% of gender dysphoric teens will grow out of their dysphoria. Anyone have any idea what she's on about, or is it just nonsense?
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Jun 10, 2020 22:12
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She's defining dysphoria extremely loosely, not all dysphoria is the same, and there's not a hard set level that any person's has to be at to be valid. She's also playing the "I’ve wondered whether, if I’d been born 30 years later, I too might have tried to transition." card, as if that's something bad. Sounds like an old vicar in the 90s saying "if all this sexual openness and 'gay pride' was around when I was a boy, I might have been drawn into temptation" and, yeah, okay, cool?
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Jun 10, 2020 22:18
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The only thing jk has researched is how to speedrun your career down the shitter. You gotta hit 2 bottles of red by 13 minutes and the first tweet out by 15, smooth sailing after the that.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:20
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Paperhouse posted:From the Rowling blog You play call of duty? good, your gender dysphoria is clearly gone
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Jun 10, 2020 22:26
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imagine having all those billions of pounds and still choosing to waste your evenings shitposting on twitter like a plebe how can you be that bothered by trans people minding their own business? i wonder what her posting rig looks like
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Jun 10, 2020 22:27
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King Crab posted:The only thing jk has researched is how to speedrun your career down the shitter. lol if you think a single corp with a pride flag in their twitter icon will even vaguely disagree with what shes saying
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Jun 10, 2020 22:28
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Guavanaut posted:terves lol I like this
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Jun 10, 2020 22:30
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Endorph posted:lol if you think a single corp with a pride flag in their twitter icon will even vaguely disagree with what shes saying Yeah... I know 😕 An enby can wish though!
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Jun 10, 2020 22:33
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JK rowling wearing a pointy hat and spitting out nuclear takes in all directions, I call it the whirling tervish.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:37
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Sorry to drop in the middle of jkr chat but has anyone here actually experienced white guilt? Someone I was having a chat with said that the only reason that white people were backing BLM was because of white guilt, I suggested that he was talking bollocks and no one I know has experienced white guilt but it did make me wonder if anyone I could speak to had actually experienced white guilt at all.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:38
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Munin posted:Man, it must be years now since I had a pint of Doom Bar. It used to be the best bitter on tap at one of my local pubs. I liked the stuff. It’s a decently consistent ale if it’s served right - it’s certainly a go to if I don’t like the look of anything else on tap somewhere. bessantj posted:Sorry to drop in the middle of jkr chat but has anyone here actually experienced white guilt? Someone I was having a chat with said that the only reason that white people were backing BLM was because of white guilt, I suggested that he was talking bollocks and no one I know has experienced white guilt but it did make me wonder if anyone I could speak to had actually experienced white guilt at all. Guilt, no - I’m conscious of the relative privilege it brings and try my best to use that to level the field, but I wouldn’t call it guilt.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:44
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Red Oktober posted:It’s a decently consistent ale if it’s served right - it’s certainly a go to if I don’t like the look of anything else on tap somewhere. This was true for me too but it's been Guinness for the last year or so. Maybe that's a sign I'm getting old and terrible. gently caress I'd kill for a well poured Guinness not from a can. stev fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 22:47
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stev posted:This was true for me too but it's been Guinness for the last year or so. Maybe that's a sign I'm getting old and terrible. A good Guinness is fabulous. The quality control at the point of serve is monitored by the brewery which helps.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:50
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bessantj posted:Sorry to drop in the middle of jkr chat but has anyone here actually experienced white guilt? Someone I was having a chat with said that the only reason that white people were backing BLM was because of white guilt, I suggested that he was talking bollocks and no one I know has experienced white guilt but it did make me wonder if anyone I could speak to had actually experienced white guilt at all. I can't say I've ever experienced anything I'd call guilt about it no. I didn't ask to be born the way I did any more than anyone else did, but that doesn't mean that I can just ignore it. With a little bit of thought I can minimise the amount I personally cause problems and all the structural stuff isn't me doing it and I want it gone anyway, so I don't really think I have anything to feel personally guilty about. But then, I also don't feel patriotism, nationalism, any sense of shared heritage with people of the kind that get statues put up of them. If I did, perhaps I would feel more personally if someone pointed out those things are poo poo? If you don't attach yourself to poo poo ideas you don't have to feel personally guilty when other people point out that they're poo poo. And of course with the ideas I do believe in, I don't have any sense of cringe or whatever associated with them because I think they're cool and good and can stick up for them. I feel like guilt is when you know something's wrong but you're not prepared to deal with that, so it just sits there, nagging at you. And rather than resolving it you start complaining about people reminding you of it. One of the joys of an ideology that abhors inherent contradictions. You get good at recognizing and resolving them. Also sorry for posting glinner but it's hilariously relevant to what I posted earlier about the death of the author. https://twitter.com/glinner/status/1270815123024773120?s=21 Because the author is in fact, so alive they can engage in cognitive imperialism. JK Rowling has conquered your brain with harry potter and will subsume you into her greater mindscape. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 22:51
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bessantj posted:Sorry to drop in the middle of jkr chat but has anyone here actually experienced white guilt? Someone I was having a chat with said that the only reason that white people were backing BLM was because of white guilt, I suggested that he was talking bollocks and no one I know has experienced white guilt but it did make me wonder if anyone I could speak to had actually experienced white guilt at all. or an excerpt a friend recently expressed to me, going to a rally in their country and having a white speaker go on about 'go up to a black person, give them a hug, ask them how they're doing' and then a black speaker going up and going 'uh, please dont do that to a stranger, thatd be weird' and the first speaker getting mad
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Jun 10, 2020 23:02
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OwlFancier posted:JK rowling wearing a pointy hat and spitting out nuclear takes in all directions, I call it the whirling tervish. JK Rowling makes people wear the gender Sorting hat before they can use the toilet.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:13
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Thanks for the answers. I always thought it was a bit laughable when people talked about "white guilt." I can recognise that white British people have been pretty poo poo to people in other parts of the world without feeling guilty over it. For someone who says they have trans friends that they support Rowling seems to be going out of her way to be lovely.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:14
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White guilt has always seemed to me to be something the right bang on about to explain why people to the left of them could possibly care at all what happens to people who aren't the same colour as them, to be honest.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:19
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statue chat apparently it's confronting our legacy of slavery and genocide that will actually lead to the second holocaust, but if we ignore it everything will be fine - source: some Tory councillor https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/10/tory-councils-under-pressure-review-monuments-linked-slavery quote:Pressure is mounting on hundreds of Conservative councils to review local monuments linked to the slave trade after it emerged that no Tory-run local authority has seemingly begun action following the removal of statues in Bristol and London. obviously the best way to learn from the past is just to leave it where it is and not think about it too hard, if we did something more proactive like ask whether it's appropriate to honour the memory of people who bought sold and butchered tens of thousands of people then we wouldn't be reflecting on them and their actions and we wouldn't learn from them lol I can never work out whether these people are genuinely this stupid or if it's completely disingenuous also I'm pretty sure the reason bojo won't take a knee is because he'd topple over like one of the bad statues and wouldn't be able to get back up again also also I can't be the only one who thinks about getting a sweet level 100 charizard or getting to put another point in the perk chart whenever the conservatives talk about levelling-up?
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Jun 10, 2020 23:26
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bessantj posted:Sorry to drop in the middle of jkr chat but has anyone here actually experienced white guilt? Someone I was having a chat with said that the only reason that white people were backing BLM was because of white guilt, I suggested that he was talking bollocks and no one I know has experienced white guilt but it did make me wonder if anyone I could speak to had actually experienced white guilt at all. Your friend is dumb as hell, if it was left-handed or green-eyed people getting disproportionately killed by police you wouldn't expect the opposition to that to exclusively come from left-handed or green-eyed people that doesn't change because the specific arbitrary characteristic is race. White people could back BLM because they aren't identitarians and feel sympathy/concern for people of other races, they could back BLM because they have black people in their lives that they like/love and would want to be protected from potential harm, they could back BLM because racially targeted killings offends their principles of justice and equality, your friends take is loving ridiculous (unironically has extremely good IDpol praxis though). To your question I definitely have experienced white guilt. Back in the day I was really active on progressive Tumblr performatively unlearning my whiteness and all that shite and looking back it was really negative, not in a 'push through the difficulty to emerge stronger' way but just in a 'every single thing you've achieved is because you were born white don't feel any pride in it whatsoever, the world would probably be better if you weren't born and that feeling can't be alleviated in any dependable way because any poc poster is your moral and intellectual superior no matter how dumb or cruel their take is, and oh by the way there's no actual plan or structure to any of this except you are bad'. If you're already sort of alienated and get into a toxic space like that, and you think it's the intellectually sound and morally correct framework, of course you're gonna feel an aimless sure but still really sincere guilt. Vitamin P fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jun 11, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 23:28
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