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Epicurius posted:In TOS? We don't know there are. The only thing that suggests that is a line in Turnabout Intruder by Janice Lester: I know that the intent in Turnabout Intruder was absolutely "women are not allowed to be starship captains because even in the 23rd century it's still A Man's World, Baby!" in a hamfisted way to talk about equal rights. But dammed if I never saw that line by her in that way before and it absolutely works as a retcon in a post Captain Erika Hernendez world. 
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Jun 11, 2020 03:26
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The New Frontier books go off the rails kind of quick after the first major arc. They do reintroduce a lot of TOS reference weirdness to the series as it goes along. Been a long, long time since I read them. Trek novels are in a weird place right now because for almost two decades they had tried to do a post-DS9 and VOY continuity but that got thrown out recently when ST: Picard was launched. I still need to finish the last TNG novel that was kind of a wrap-up of the post-Nemesis TNG continuity. There is another VOY novel that just came out which was still possible because in the novel continuity, the Voyager stuff is a few years in time behind the TNG/DS9 stuff. The post-series ENT novels were fine for awhile, but once they get past the Romulan War/founding of the Federation I feel like they get kind of dull. I don't know if we're even getting any more of these going forward.
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Jun 11, 2020 03:41
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Eighties ZomCom posted:Oh yeah. I was just thinking about the episode where they go to that human colony and Pike is all "Don't tell them anything about Earth because Prime Directive" and leave behind the one guy who figures it out. In that episode they avert an extinction level event without debate and Pike gives the person who knows the truth about Earth modern technology to speed up his people's development, and that's after they talk about how following the law to the letter would be an act of cruelty that the captain has authority to make a judgment call on - it's definitely not TNG style Prime Directive absolutism.
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Jun 11, 2020 04:10
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Kibayasu posted:There weren’t as many standout TNG books that I read but Vendetta is one. I never read the first Imazdi book but the second one was enjoyable. Q in Law is good in a kind of dumb way. I read that back around the same time as Vendetta (no :shrooms: that time but still plenty of  ). I remember even less than I do about Vendetta, except for vaguely recalling a scene that took place outside on the hull of the Enterprise, which I know I loved the poo poo out of so I assume I loved the whole book. I definitely remember it being hilarious all the way through, and I feel sure it requires a lot of suspension of disbelief, like not just wrt the sci-fi aspects.I remember being blown away by Strangers from the Sky, though I recall it suffering from the small universe syndrome a bit. Something to do with  , iirc. ^Spoiling that is probably pointless as I imagine it mentions it right on the cover, but just in case...
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Jun 11, 2020 05:56
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Everyone knows the greatest TNG book is Planet X
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Jun 11, 2020 06:16
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Seemlar posted:In that episode they avert an extinction level event without debate and Pike gives the person who knows the truth about Earth modern technology to speed up his people's development, and that's after they talk about how following the law to the letter would be an act of cruelty that the captain has authority to make a judgment call on - it's definitely not TNG style Prime Directive absolutism. That's something I would like to see them explore in Strange New Worlds. Have a difficult Prime Directive situation with no clear solution that goes tits up, and give a bit of justification for how much literally it was taken in the TNG era. I know that it's still pre-TOS, but rules can take years to change as the consequences become apparent.
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Jun 11, 2020 06:26
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Kibayasu posted:The New Frontier series, at least to when I stopped reading it, is a fairly different series that most Trek books. Its more of an action comedy than anything else, with a fairly irreverent tone to violence. Being different alone made it enjoyable to me but YMMV depending on how much you like deadpan humor. The first four novellas (which together equal roughly one larger novel) are worth it. Every time I've tried to read beyond them I've always bounced off kinda hard. Not TNG/DS9 era, but I'm a big fan of the Vanguard series. Years ago I heard some good things about the DS9 relaunch novels (starting with "Avatar", which I think along with Stitch in Time was also when the Trek novels started having a longer through-line and some internal consistency with each other?), but haven't jumped into them yet. Right now I'm elbow-deep in late-70s TOS novels and it's just so awful.
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Jun 11, 2020 08:00
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I'd be really into the novelverse if there were more Trek audiobooks. They are becoming a bit more common now, I have one of the Vanguard ones. I've listened to a fair few Star Wars audiobooks that are probably mediocre stories but the audio production brings it up a few stars.
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Jun 11, 2020 14:15
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You know what I would like, and it would be a lot easier in book form than a new show, is a series exploring the Dyson sphere. I bet I could churn out acceptable licensed genre fiction myself, come to think of it, how does one get started with that?
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Jun 11, 2020 17:42
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Man, I'd love to be a lovely spinoff novel writer. It'd be like writing fan fiction where you have to hold yourself to a (relative) standard of quality, but just not quite as sad. Trek would be a tough IP to write in without an encyclopedic knowledge of the universe, though, because the only people reading them are the same people who would tear you apart for screwing up canon.
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Jun 11, 2020 17:53
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feedmyleg posted:Man, I'd love to be a lovely spinoff novel writer. It'd be like writing fan fiction where you have to hold yourself to a (relative) standard of quality, but just not quite as sad. Trek would be a tough IP to write in without an encyclopedic knowledge of the universe, though, because the only people reading them are the same people who would tear you apart for screwing up canon. Star Wars EU nerds are just as bad and it turns out the solution is "repeat the same Empire/Republic and/or Sith/Jedi war theme with minor variations for literally tens of thousands of years of in-universe history" The last few story arcs before they rebooted everything were bad as hell, but I'll give them credit for trying new things, even if those new things were bizarre/idiotic concepts. "technology-hating zealots with organic starships and dead to The Force" gave way to "Dark Side alien insect orgies" and culminated in "a planet-sized evil blob monster that is literally The Dark Side." I guess what I'm getting at is take your pick RE: Trek fiction - if it's glued to canon it's either gonna be repetitive as hell, or weird as hell, and it's a coin flip if it's good-weird or bad-weird.
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Jun 11, 2020 17:59
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Yeah, my take with either IP would be to just do some side-story that doesn't touch much established canon. I'd probably just do space pirates with either property, with wildly different end results.
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Jun 11, 2020 18:02
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The bulk of the writers for them are otherwise established authors. You'd think it would be the other way around where it was a bunch nobodies firing them out.
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Jun 11, 2020 18:04
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Most writers don't make a living off it, I'd imagine solid cash flow if you can write decent prose quickly. You don't have to establish your own world and you can use existing characters if you want. Cranking out some licensed fiction in six weeks while you work on your personal projects probably helps a lot.
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Jun 11, 2020 18:08
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feedmyleg posted:Yeah, my take with either IP would be to just do some side-story that doesn't touch much established canon. I'd probably just do space pirates with either property, with wildly different end results. That would be my instinct as well, create as close to a self-contained setting within the Trek setting as possible, and have only the barest references or connections with established canon. That's basically what the Trek series themselves did, you have the opening scene with the old guard to establish that yes, this is a shared universe, now they bugger off and let this new group do whatever.
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Jun 11, 2020 18:10
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Grand Fromage posted:Most writers don't make a living off it, I'd imagine solid cash flow if you can write decent prose quickly. You don't have to establish your own world and you can use existing characters if you want. Cranking out some licensed fiction in six weeks while you work on your personal projects probably helps a lot. 6 cents a word! 6 cents a word! Did you hear me? 6 cents a word!
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Jun 11, 2020 18:25
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Grand Fromage posted:Most writers don't make a living off it, I'd imagine solid cash flow if you can write decent prose quickly. You don't have to establish your own world and you can use existing characters if you want. Cranking out some licensed fiction in six weeks while you work on your personal projects probably helps a lot. Unsurprisingly I know a bunch of the Doctor Who writers who were doing books in the wilderness years (1990-2004) while the show was off the air. Pretty much all of them had other jobs at the time, and were honestly writing them because of a genuine love for the source material, and wanting to tell interesting stories in the Who framework. The quickest one written i know of was Dave Stone cranking out a whole novel in 3 weeks because the publishers suddenly had a hole in the schedule because of another writer having problems.
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Jun 11, 2020 23:19
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Grand Fromage posted:Most writers don't make a living off it, I'd imagine solid cash flow if you can write decent prose quickly. You don't have to establish your own world and you can use existing characters if you want. Cranking out some licensed fiction in six weeks while you work on your personal projects probably helps a lot. I swear Stackpole said he could write a Rogue Squadron book over a weekend.
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Jun 11, 2020 23:27
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That's a rate not unknown to many self-publishing authors today. Though I don't think they're pouring their passion into or taking pride in anything they can churn out in that time.
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Jun 11, 2020 23:51
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On today's episode of their Scrubs rewatch podcast, Donald Faison told Zach Braff that he would have wanted Avery Brooks to play his dad on Scrubs, had they ever needed to cast his dad. Neither Zach nor Sarah Chalke knew who that was. 
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Jun 12, 2020 01:40
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Grand Fromage posted:Most writers don't make a living off it, I'd imagine solid cash flow if you can write decent prose quickly. You don't have to establish your own world and you can use existing characters if you want. Cranking out some licensed fiction in six weeks while you work on your personal projects probably helps a lot. I probably couldn't do it after all, it'd end up as a series of increasingly contrived scenarios so that I could make ridiculous homophone jokes. "That one over there, you see her?" "The eyesore? I sure do." "Ice 'er." "Aye, sir."
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Jun 12, 2020 03:45
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feedmyleg posted:That's a rate not unknown to many self-publishing authors today. Though I don't think they're pouring their passion into or taking pride in anything they can churn out in that time. didn't King write Cujo over the course of 24 hours while blacking out on cocaine?
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Jun 12, 2020 05:02
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Tunicate posted:didn't King write Cujo over the course of 24 hours while blacking out on cocaine?
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Jun 12, 2020 05:17
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Cujo is the one he says he doesn't remember writing but I've never heard that it was only 24 hours
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Jun 12, 2020 11:17
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I can't imagine how anyone works that quickly. I'm a professional author who's considered fast by his publisher, and at full whack I might manage 20,000 words a week - 15,000 as standard. (The first draft of my latest novel took seven weeks - it would have been less, but I contracted covid-19 in the middle of it...) The most I've ever written in a single day was 8000 words, but I had no other responsibilities, started at 7am and worked non-stop to 8pm, and was also caffeinated to the eyeballs. It's not a pace I could maintain!
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Jun 12, 2020 13:22
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Payndz posted:I can't imagine how anyone works that quickly. I'm a professional author who's considered fast by his publisher, and at full whack I might manage 20,000 words a week - 15,000 as standard. (The first draft of my latest novel took seven weeks - it would have been less, but I contracted covid-19 in the middle of it...) The most I've ever written in a single day was 8000 words, but I had no other responsibilities, started at 7am and worked non-stop to 8pm, and was also caffeinated to the eyeballs. It's not a pace I could maintain! Maybe try cocaine.
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Jun 12, 2020 14:49
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TOS talk: Dunno if this was posted so far but holy poo poo this guys blueprints and research that went into it.
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Jun 12, 2020 15:36
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Payndz posted:I can't imagine how anyone works that quickly. I'm a professional author who's considered fast by his publisher, and at full whack I might manage 20,000 words a week - 15,000 as standard. (The first draft of my latest novel took seven weeks - it would have been less, but I contracted covid-19 in the middle of it...) The most I've ever written in a single day was 8000 words, but I had no other responsibilities, started at 7am and worked non-stop to 8pm, and was also caffeinated to the eyeballs. It's not a pace I could maintain! I don't remember the word count but my record in college was a 15-page (without bibliography), single-spaced final term paper with about a dozen legit sources, in a single 12-hour Adderall-fueled haze. I got an A- too
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Jun 12, 2020 16:17
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I did 15,000 words of fiction in a day once. I don't recommend it.
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Jun 12, 2020 16:30
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jeeves posted:TOS talk: drat nerds. I would never do anything this nerdy.
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Jun 12, 2020 16:41
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Barbara Cartland published 723 novels over her life including 19 in one year. She used to recline on a chaise longue and dictate sex scenes to her secretary all day.
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Jun 12, 2020 17:23
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jeeves posted:TOS talk: 
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Jun 12, 2020 17:36
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I finally finished Voyager all the way through. I stopped watching it somewhere around the middle during first-run airings when I went off to uni and Netflix gave me the chance to pick it up again. I knew the reputation of the ending was bad so I had low expectation but it still managed to surprise me with it's awfulness.
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Jun 12, 2020 20:08
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Pablo Bluth posted:I finally finished Voyager all the way through. I stopped watching it somewhere around the middle during first-run airings when I went off to uni and Netflix gave me the chance to pick it up again.
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Jun 12, 2020 20:13
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It felt like some homework left to the last minute by someone with no interest bar doing the bare minimum of avoiding detention. No care, no nuance, no thought about internal logic or continuity. Just churn it out, throwing in some deus ex machina and God Mode to get out of having to worry about consequences.
Pablo Bluth fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Jun 12, 2020 |
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Jun 12, 2020 20:18
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FlamingLiberal posted:It’s really terrible. Particularly the fact that there is no real denouement and the show just goes to credits after they fly out of the Borg sphere. The decision to have them arrive and cut to credits is astounding. It violates every principle of storytelling. They clearly just did not give a poo poo anymore.
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Jun 12, 2020 20:21
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I think I was less put out by the ending of Farscape when it got summarily cancelled on a cliff-hanger and we didn't know for a long time if there would be anything more.
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Jun 12, 2020 20:26
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Grand Fromage posted:The decision to have them arrive and cut to credits is astounding. It violates every principle of storytelling. They clearly just did not give a poo poo anymore. Wasn't it an overreaction to the dislike of DS9's extended goodbye montage?
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Jun 12, 2020 20:53
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Pablo Bluth posted:I think I was less put out by the ending of Farscape when it got summarily cancelled on a cliff-hanger and we didn't know for a long time if there would be anything more. See here you know there was something that was cut. In Voyager they just basically turned in a D+ script in at the last minute and went home.
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Jun 12, 2020 21:55
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Today on Voyager episode Tattoo Chuck O'tay discovers that his vague native American backstory may also include ancient aliens.
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Jun 12, 2020 22:39
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