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I think removing that card as well as taking the suggested, more material moves would be more than fine; sending the signal that lionization of crusaders, which has been an operative tool of establishing the concept of whiteness since literally the invention of that concept, is not accepted? That's fine. I personally think that people having a more critical understanding of the crusades and their actual historical qualities is pretty useful for undermining the framework of assumptions and racial/cultural identity markers that white supremacists reference and rely on to convince people that their positions are reasonable. A lot of white supremacy operates through that medium of cultural hegemony, where their understanding of the world is already presented to people in tons of cultural production, making their conspiracy theories and falsehoods easier to digest than the truth. It's not that immediate material action isn't as or more useful, it's that the supposed righteousness of crusaders isn't a recent symbol of a protean white supremacist movement, it's nearly as abiding and important a racist concept as the blood libel.
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Jun 11, 2020 02:13
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Crusades definitely have more enduring white supremacist significance than clowns do, but they're ultimately still just a symbol while cops are a practical, contemporary fact. Even if we're not going to chase down and delete every card in which a frog stands on two legs or a man rubs his hands together, we're comparing something that happened to something that's happening. There are not actually any crusaders now, while cops continue to kill by the day. I stand by what I said - if we're going to draw a line between cultural shibboleths and straightforward depictions of brutality, it's surely the latter that have to go (though I don't believe removing either from Gatherer actually helps or makes any sense).
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Jun 11, 2020 02:23
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I thought the historical crusades were generally a failure and Europe got their rear end kicked in most of them? Nissin Cup Nudist fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Jun 11, 2020 |
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Jun 11, 2020 05:41
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Origins Online is canceled. In a good way, though. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3343035985749041&id=802408846478447 quote:Statement from the GAMA Board of Directors:
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Jun 11, 2020 05:45
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:I thought the historical crusades were generally a failure and Europe got their rear end kicked in most of them? Historical accuracy is one of the many intellectual areas they've abandoned on their journey to post hoc justification.
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Jun 11, 2020 05:45
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:I thought the historical crusades were generally a failure and Europe got their rear end kicked in most of them? The Confederacy, Nazis, etc. It's not about accuracy.
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Jun 11, 2020 05:49
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Argas posted:The Confederacy, Nazis, etc. History's biggest group of tummy feels snowflakes tend to project pretty harshly.
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Jun 11, 2020 05:52
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:I thought the historical crusades were generally a failure and Europe got their rear end kicked in most of them? The key element is that the crusades helped construct a shared European Christian identity in opposition to the similarly invented/imagined non-Christian, non-European enemy. The crusades were, materially, as much a release valve used to reduce the internecine wars in Europe by religious authorities, as an actual attempt to conquer Jerusalem. The English national identity (and literature) shows long-lasting traces of this, including ways in which the horrors perpetrated by the crusaders were metabolized culturally into antisemitic accusations and weird cannibal giants in romances, a theme which only appears after the return of crusaders from a siege where the European knights are recorded as committing cannibalism. The crusades absolutely failed as a military effort and when they did capture land, it didn't benefit them. But they were hugely formative for the identity of 'Christendom' defined against an other, and whiteness is in many ways the heir to medieval Christendom (and it's not like militant Christian hegemony isn't part and parcel with white supremacy). So it's not just that nazis reference the crusades, it's that the crusades have a deep and influential cultural position that makes them perfect for the white supremacist propaganda goals and they'll keep recurring because the crusades are constitutive of their worldview. Orientalism, specifically anti-Arab orientalism, is still underpinned by the crusades, and the Clash of Civilizations ideology is an explicitly hostile version of it and a very popular white supremacist - and painfully mainstream - idea. A lot of people are primed to believe that there's a clash of civilizations, and therefore basically that the crusades were good and necessary, and that's one of many ways the general culture backs up nazi ideas. Ideas aren't everything, but old ideas have a deep grip on people, and make things we'd like to think are abominable propositions easier to fall into for a lot of people than humane, reasonable ones. E: obviously there was antisemitism in English lit before the crusades, I just meant the cannibal giants are a theme that develops post-crusades. The book Empire of Magic about the cultural purposes of the romance is really excellent. Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Jun 11, 2020 |
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Jun 11, 2020 06:26
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:I thought the historical crusades were generally a failure and Europe got their rear end kicked in most of them?
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Jun 11, 2020 06:42
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It was also spectacularly successful at loving up Christian countries all along the road to the Levant and also ending the Eastern Roman Empire. The Crusades were all massive, unbelievable clusterfucks.
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Jun 11, 2020 06:51
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Ferrinus posted:Crusades definitely have more enduring white supremacist significance than clowns do, but they're ultimately still just a symbol while cops are a practical, contemporary fact. Even if we're not going to chase down and delete every card in which a frog stands on two legs or a man rubs his hands together, we're comparing something that happened to something that's happening. There are not actually any crusaders now, while cops continue to kill by the day. I stand by what I said - if we're going to draw a line between cultural shibboleths and straightforward depictions of brutality, it's surely the latter that have to go (though I don't believe removing either from Gatherer actually helps or makes any sense).
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Jun 11, 2020 06:52
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Nessus posted:I understand you're very clever, perhaps the cleverest poster of them all, but what the gently caress are you trying to say? That it doesn't make sense for Wizards to remove "Crusade" but keep "Arrest" (and a slew of other modern, still-in-use cards) for moral reasons, but does scan as an empty gesture they're making for financial reasons.
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Jun 11, 2020 07:24
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Ferrinus posted:That it doesn't make sense for Wizards to remove "Crusade" but keep "Arrest" (and a slew of other modern, still-in-use cards) for moral reasons, but does scan as an empty gesture they're making for financial reasons. It would have been a soulless gesture to avoid criticism in any case, because it's a feeding arm of a giant corporation. That doesn't mean that gestures towards changing how people think about the crusades, and therefore the background radiation of white supremacy, aren't useful.
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Jun 11, 2020 07:27
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Ferrinus posted:That it doesn't make sense for Wizards to remove "Crusade" but keep "Arrest" (and a slew of other modern, still-in-use cards) for moral reasons, but does scan as an empty gesture they're making for financial reasons.
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Jun 11, 2020 07:30
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Joe Slowboat posted:It would have been a soulless gesture to avoid criticism in any case, because it's a feeding arm of a giant corporation. That doesn't mean that gestures towards changing how people think about the crusades, and therefore the background radiation of white supremacy, aren't useful. It doesn't actually matter whether a giant corporation or an enlightened boddhisattva is doing it - hiding the art for "Crusade" on gatherer.wizards.com is not useful. In fact it's the opposite of useful, because not only does it have no salutary effect on its own, it also distracts from and/or pretends to respond to the actual scandal of Wizards's racist hiring practices. There's a QnA somewhere on Mark Rosewater's blog in which someone asks whether it'd be better, politically, for "White" and "Black" to not be colors in Magic at all. What if plains generated Yellow mana and swamps generated Violet mana? Wouldn't that eliminate the awkward implications of cards that say things like "destroy all black creatures" or "white creatures can't be blocked" or whatever? And Maro admits that yes, it would, but the rhetorical and mythic weight of the colors white and black is the point. "Black magic" sounds sinister. "White magic" sounds pure. White mana is associated with healing and protection but also repressive authority. Black mana is associated with cutthroat greed but also determination. White is the color of fascism; Black is the color of capitalism. These aren't my takes; they're all quotes or paraphrases of things Magic's designers have said. The weirdest thing about "Invoke Prejudice" isn't that it was printed at all, but that it costs blue mana rather than white mana to cast, because stifling conformity is in white's part of the color pie! Given the entire basis of Magic's world and aesthetics, pretending that a reference to the historical crusades is a bridge too far is stupid and hypocritical. Forget for a moment that the game's already up to its armpits in demons and human sacrifice and torture and whatever other generic bad stuff you might want to reference (most commonly found on black cards!!) - it's also chock full of political content, such as the white/blue guild of magical cops on Ravnica or the literal conquistadors on Ixalan or the vaguely fascist survival-at-any cost Attack on Titan guys on Ikoria. Crusades in general or The Crusades in particular are not more ruinous to human culture to depict on a card than those things.
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Jun 11, 2020 08:18
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You know how Christchurch had 50 people killed by a white supremacist last year here's our rugby team:  here's the pregame:  Like cowards they waffled for a few months, did a brand review, and then decided to keep the name and replace the logo  to quote wikipedia: This move was met by backlash as the new logo resembles a penis.[75]
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Jun 11, 2020 08:36
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Ferrinus posted:The weirdest thing about "Invoke Prejudice" isn't that it was printed at all, but that it costs blue mana rather than white mana to cast, because stifling conformity is in white's part of the color pie! Beside the point, but it was printed in an epoch when the color pie was, uh, played fast and loose with.  e: The rest of that post makes a pretty good case, too, at least as far as Crusade not being meaningfully worse or different than a lot of the stuff that we (and they) tacitly accept. The Ixalan conquistadors are what really throw the issue into sharp focus, I think-- given the increasingly evolving perspectives on the original colonizers of the Americas (just look at the Columbus statues being pulled over recently), I'm having trouble seeing how there's any metric that makes one subject problematic to have as a Magic card and artwork, and not the other. The Ixalan conquistadors are from within the past two years, and they're the product of a deliberate, thorough-going piece of worldbuilding, rather than a generic trope thrown into the very first core set in its most basic possible form. Even if you wanted a faction of vampire explorers to be part of the world of Ixalan, there's zero reason you need to code them as conquistadors. They did. In a set released within the past couple of years, fully steeped in modern design sensibility. And it wasn't a problem as far as I could tell; everyone seemed to realize that yes, these were an allusion to Historical Bad People; yes, they are Bad People in the setting as well; yes, for better or for worse, Magic lets you be the Bad Wizard and summon Bad People to do your bidding. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Jun 11, 2020 |
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Jun 11, 2020 12:03
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The reason you code them as conquistadors is so everyone knows they're the bad guys. Like it's not subtle. They even had the conquistador's patron saint person tell them they're the bad guys upon being resurrected.
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Jun 11, 2020 14:28
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JerryLee posted:Beside the point, but it was printed in an epoch when the color pie was, uh, played fast and loose with. Look I know the “how you treat the issues is important” argument hasn’t swayed everyone, but this is a great example of how profoundly weird it is to ignore that factor. The Ixalan conquistadors are *literal vampires* who are absolutely wretched people and the game makes no bones about it. I’m not an expert in this and if indigenous folks say it’s still too much, I’ll listen. It’s also problematic that such a big company doesn’t seem to have internal expertise in the cultures they’re portraying, and doesn’t seem to have acquired that expertise. But it can’t be just impossible to portray or suggest historical woes, the issue is you need to understand you’re doing that, that when you engage them, you are taking a stance, so you want to be sure that stance is clear. The problem with many of the cards banned is that either the stance isn’t clear, or the stance sucks. ATLA for example is heavily influenced by real-world cultures and issues, but treats them with respect, to universal acclaim. I don’t think Ixalan hits that high, but it’s at least trying and Invoke Prejudice is not.
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Jun 11, 2020 15:56
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I don't actually think the Ixalan Conquistadors need to be removed, to be clear, and I still wouldn't think they needed to be removed even if all their flavor text was gone or even if they were all just Creature - Human rather than Creature - Vampire, although making them a nation of vampires desperate to find fresh blood is a good metaphor that it would be a shame to lose regardless of other factors. It's just... okay for art to depict evil. There are plenty of reasons having to do with tone, age-appropriateness, and play experience to avoid or remove certain kinds of depiction, but "this was bad and bad people like it" doesn't cut it.
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Jun 11, 2020 15:56
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Presentation does matter; the thing about removing crusader imagery is that, at least for those who learn about it, it problematicizes it - it causes people to, hopefully, reconsider that imagery. The crusading Knight is genrelly understood as an icon of heroic good; conquistadores are more generally understood as awful. The depiction of evil is fine, nobody’s arguing against it, but (for example) statues of Nathan Bedford Forrest ought to come down because while he was evil, that’s not how historical memory presents him and it’s not how monuments remember him. If people as broadly remembered the crusades as what they were, and didn’t still lean on them in the production of, say, the War on Terror, that would be one thing. The Conquistadores are broadly understood as they were, and even Columbus is becoming more complicated to the general public though that’s received more resistance. Crusaders depicted ‘neutrally’ are worth talking about as bad, because that way some people will hopefully come to understand what’s both incorrect and evil in the worldview the crusaders form a foundation of. It’s not a major front but it matters as much as any effort of revisionist antiracist history.
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Jun 11, 2020 17:11
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I disagree pretty strongly, Ferrinus. First, the fact that the crusades are not currently happening does not change the fact that they are a real-world rallying point and propaganda source for white supremacists. The Norway shooter leaned heavily into the crusades, so did the Christchurch shooter. Deus Vult is a major white supremacist rallying cry. The crusades are a major part of islamaphobic propaganda. To act like it doesn't matter because the crusades are historical and not happening right this minute misses the point. It's like saying having swastikas isn't a big deal because the Third Reich ended in 1945. The Arrest card and the Ixalan Conquistadors aren't nearly as bad simply down to the fact that the game treats them as obviously bad and evil things. You can talk about whether or not they're appropriate for a kid's game, and whether or not the depiction treats the situation respectfully, sure. But it is very obviously not endorsing nor condoning police violence nor the colonization of the Americas. The Crusade card is worse than these because of the way the crusaders are depicted on the card. They're shown looking fairly heroic, and the card has nothing to indicate that there's anything wrong or untowards about them. At best, it's taking common white supremacist imagery and treating it neutrally. This makes it useful as a piece of propaganda for white supremacists, where Arrest or the conquistador cards aren't, or at least not as easily. Again, that doesn't mean I'm endorsing the other cards. Magic is largely made by a bunch of Whitey Mc-Whitedudes, so jokes about police brutality, even ones sympathetic to the victims, can easily fall flat and feel exploitive. But "kinda tonedeaf about system racism" isn't as bad as "Looks just like a white supremacist propaganda poster."
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Jun 11, 2020 17:28
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I appreciate this Crusades discussion, and don't want to derail it, but might anyway. What POC RPG Patreons do you like? Post or PM me. I want to share resources with people outside this forum. I will sift through all the RPG Patreons out there, but if you've got some recommendations, you can save me some time.
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Jun 11, 2020 17:51
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homullus posted:I appreciate this Crusades discussion, and don't want to derail it, but might anyway. What POC RPG Patreons do you like? Post or PM me. I want to share resources with people outside this forum. I will sift through all the RPG Patreons out there, but if you've got some recommendations, you can save me some time. Oh, if you decide to PM homullus about this, I would really appreciate if you could do the same for me! I also want to expand my horizons.
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Jun 11, 2020 18:08
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I definitely am interested in hearing more about Black game designers in general. While I'm familiar with quite a few people from the SEARPG scene, I know comparatively few Black designers, particularly Black women and Black nonbinary people.
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Jun 11, 2020 18:14
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Joe Slowboat posted:Presentation does matter; the thing about removing crusader imagery is that, at least for those who learn about it, it problematicizes it - it causes people to, hopefully, reconsider that imagery. The crusading Knight is genrelly understood as an icon of heroic good; conquistadores are more generally understood as awful. The depiction of evil is fine, nobody’s arguing against it, but (for example) statues of Nathan Bedford Forrest ought to come down because while he was evil, that’s not how historical memory presents him and it’s not how monuments remember him. JackMann posted:I disagree pretty strongly, Ferrinus. First, the fact that the crusades are not currently happening does not change the fact that they are a real-world rallying point and propaganda source for white supremacists. The Norway shooter leaned heavily into the crusades, so did the Christchurch shooter. Deus Vult is a major white supremacist rallying cry. The crusades are a major part of islamaphobic propaganda. To act like it doesn't matter because the crusades are historical and not happening right this minute misses the point. It's like saying having swastikas isn't a big deal because the Third Reich ended in 1945. Well, here's the question: would you support removing Arrest, or the entire conquistador faction or whatever, from the game if they had no "problematicizing" flavor text or other nudges from the writer and art director that you're supposed to think this is bad? If it was just Arrest, target creature can't attack or block or have its abilities activated, picture of a dude in glowing cuffs, no italics? I'm not saying that having happened long ago means the crusades are somehow okay, but that happening right now makes police arrests even worse. By what standard could we possibly let cops slide if we're banning crusaders? Now, I take it that your answer is to some extent the author's stance towards those cops, but I truly and honestly don't think that kind of built-in commentary matters or resolves the central issue. Like, we could probably have a sub-discussion here about the extent to which the Crusade card depicts what's going on as a bad thing (there's a big plume of black smoke in the background, for instance) but it'd be entirely beside the point. The crusades don't actually cause white supremacy, and "white supremacists like this thing" is a good reason to look closely at something but not a good reason to get rid of something on its own - certainly not in a game like Magic in which drawing on the charged political, historical, and mythological resonance of various concepts is part of the game's artistry.
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Jun 11, 2020 18:27
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Meinberg posted:While I'm familiar with quite a few people from the SEARPG scene. Post or PM please. Annotated or just a list of names.
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Jun 11, 2020 18:31
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Ferrinus posted:Well, here's the question: would you support removing Arrest, or the entire conquistador faction or whatever, from the game if they had no "problematicizing" flavor text or other nudges from the writer and art director that you're supposed to think this is bad? If it was just Arrest, target creature can't attack or block or have its abilities activated, picture of a dude in glowing cuffs, no italics? I'm not saying that having happened long ago means the crusades are somehow okay, but that happening right now makes police arrests even worse. By what standard could we possibly let cops slide if we're banning crusaders? There are always going to be lines to be drawn here that are going to be unclear, but it's not entirely clear to me what position you actually favor. Is it Crusade shouldn't be removed, or Arrest should? Both? In any case, while I'm not exactly willing to trust WOTC on the exact details, I also don't feel like I'm in a great position to quibble over them. If Arrest ends up getting axed, I don't think it'll be a major loss to the game. There are certainly ways they could make a card called Arrest that would be completely unacceptable, sure. I think the ways they've done it are also importantly distinguished from those, but ultimately that's an intellectual discussion on my part when practical action is overdue. I would in any case far rather criticize them on broad policy and process grounds than on individual card choices. They've already said this is a first pass and they are going to look at more cards, so if your position is "they should ban more," keep pressuring them to do so. I'd personally rather they err on the side of removing too many cards, than do nothing and leave clear offenders around. This is especially an easy decision in terms of cards like these (or Arrest, if it comes to that) that see very little play. What would be nice is if they made final decisions on the edge cases after increasing hiring diversity and empowering historically disadvantaged voices. Because I at least am a white cis dude, and I can say as much as I want about theoretical groundings and wanting to be sensitive and inclusive and it's good for me to say that, but ultimately having a mostly boys, basically entirely white, club like WOTC sit around and decide what's going to be unwelcoming to folks with wildly different experiences is really missing the point.
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Jun 11, 2020 18:47
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It does seem an awful lot like WOTC heard complaints about diversity in the workplace and responded by creating a fun conversation about what cards to ban.
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Jun 11, 2020 18:53
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I don't think they should ban or memory hole Crusade (or even spicier cards like Jihad or Imprison), although I'm happy to see cards actually depicting KKK members or that contain slurs in their text go to the shredder. I think theironjef hits the nail on the head - doing so is a largely performative gesture that draws attention away from the actual, material things Wizards could do to correct and atone for its past mistakes. I would at least respect their decision to rip out the entirety of the Azorius Senate root and branch, but they're obviously not going to do that for financial and can't-be-assed reasons, so instead getting rid of a smattering of old cards no one cares about or plays is basically a joke.
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Jun 11, 2020 19:02
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To be clear I think the banlist they put together is good, and I'd like to see more. I just think it's taking the bait to see that list and start being all "Well if Crusade is banned then obviously we also need to ban Cathar's Crusade, it's also a crusade!" when what we should be doing is just saying "Cards are great Wizards but let's see some substantial policy changes in your work culture."
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Jun 11, 2020 19:17
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e: whoops
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Jun 11, 2020 19:22
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Unless you’re reading ‘I think it’s good when crusades imagery gets treated as toxic, such that people actually learn and think about the real history of the crusades at least a little’ as ‘therefore Wizards did enough and doesn’t need to do more’ you’re not really responding to what I’ve been writing? I’m not even saying ‘Arrest shouldn’t be removed’ because fundamentally I don’t care about Magic cards particularly - I’m just glad to see something that will prompt people to maybe actually think about the crusades, and maybe the worldview they prop up, which is more widely spread than self-described white nationalists. Taking it for granted that Wizards has been a racist company, Wizards isn’t going to stop being a racist company because of their card art, though the KKK card obviously ought to go for basic decency reasons. But it’s still a positive when crusades imagery is questioned and undermined, because that hasn’t really been done except on the level of ‘actually they really lost those wars.’
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Jun 11, 2020 19:22
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Joe Slowboat posted:Unless you’re reading ‘I think it’s good when crusades imagery gets treated as toxic, such that people actually learn and think about the real history of the crusades at least a little’ as ‘therefore Wizards did enough and doesn’t need to do more’ you’re not really responding to what I’ve been writing? Everyone agrees that Wizards is failing in terms of its basic obligations here - I'm saying that in addition to doing nothing about its hiring practices being bad, removing "Crusade" (and "Imprison" and so on) is bad is just liberal fakery and therefore bad in its own (though obviously materially lesser) way. Like, I'm with you - it's good when crusades imagery is questioned and undermined. That doesn't actually mean that it's bad when crusades imagery is just... used. That's what Magic, along with much other art, does: it evokes feelings culturally charged words and images. And trying to apply some sort of "is this bad thing sufficiently problematicized such that we're allowed to depict it" is a fool's errand because there aren't really reliable measures to use here. Not every single Azorius card is subtly undermined by its own flavor text, for instance.
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Jun 11, 2020 19:34
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Ferrinus posted:Everyone agrees that Wizards is failing in terms of its basic obligations here - I'm saying that in addition to doing nothing about its hiring practices being bad, removing "Crusade" (and "Imprison" and so on) is bad is just liberal fakery and therefore bad in its own (though obviously materially lesser) way. I think we're on different grounds of discussion here. I'm saying it is affirmatively good that the Crusades card gets put on a banlist, because it draws attention to the crusades being a problem. That this is a drop in the bucket compared to real change Wizards could be doing is also true, but I think it's good when crusader content gets treated like a target, gets questioned, and potentially gets shouted down, because it's an avenue for undermining the crusades imagery that lives in our culture. If an Azorius* card was determined to be too much copaganda and got sent to the shadow realm, I would probably say 'cool' because I don't actually care about magic cards from old sets being removed from Wizards archives in terms of what cards are readily available. Especially not super outdated cards. Would I consider someone persona non grata for using that crusader card at a kitchen table? No. I'd probably try to use it as a chance to maybe check how they think about the crusades because if they're really into them, that's a real issue, but ultimately the playability of that card is a nonissue for me. You're right, it's just presenting an image of a quasi-historical version of the crusades - but that image being entangled in discussion and actual history is useful to me. *the judicial guild on Ravnica, right? E: Like, I'm not even about to say that the crusader card was necessarily created by a racist, like Invoke Prejudice! Probably they were just steeped in the kind of background radiation that leads to things like this and also to the white nationalist crusader imagery. But at worst, nobody is harmed by yanking the crusader card and some attention is drawn to something I think is a space for revisionist history and ideological growth in society. It's a net good. Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jun 11, 2020 |
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Jun 11, 2020 19:54
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Joe Slowboat posted:I think we're on different grounds of discussion here. Yeah, Azorius is the judges/cops on Ravnica, but the thing about deleting cops from the game is that Magic has returned to Ravnica over and over again and plenty of Azorius cards are still playable now, in the "Modern" and "Pioneer" formats if not in "Standard" (it's possible that they currently are but are about to rotate out?) If Wizards got rid of Azorius - which, again, I firmly believe is much more objectionable content than any references to the historical crusades - then that would actually interfere with card sales and tournaments and such. So, of course, they'll never do it. That they've hanged a lampshade on some cop cards will be their evergreen excuse for letting you play as the cops, build cop-based "prison" decks that you use to torment your opponents, etc. Separately, I actually don't think putting Crusade on a banlist has a worthwhile didactic effect. I mean, I suppose it is true that there is a nonzero number of people for whom news that Crusade has been banned will literally be what sparks their awareness that there was something wrong with the Crusades and which might put them down a path of research and political education that eventually leads them into genuine leftist politics. However, that would also be the case if Crusade was just denoted as one of several cards that will receive a disclaimer and historical note in Gatherer and will only be reprinted with appropriately-cast art and/or flavor text, and as a bonus this kind of solution would also allow Wizards to express a much more timely and much more sorely-needed opposition to police and prisons. But that won't be happening, because Wizards is going for maximum splash but minimum effect.
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Jun 11, 2020 20:02
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Meinberg posted:I definitely am interested in hearing more about Black game designers in general. While I'm familiar with quite a few people from the SEARPG scene, I know comparatively few Black designers, particularly Black women and Black nonbinary people. Black game designers I can point you towards:
That should get you started.
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Jun 11, 2020 20:34
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Jerry Grayson, who is also involved with Orun and did Atlantis and Hellas. Misha B of Black Girl Game Works, who is also involved with Orun.
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Jun 11, 2020 20:40
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potatocubed posted:
Considering a white guy once tried to impersonate him at a convention and almost got away with it, I think Pondsmith could use a bump as a Black Designer.
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Jun 11, 2020 20:41
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| # ? May 25, 2024 15:34 |
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xiw posted:You know how Christchurch had 50 people killed by a white supremacist last year What a dick move
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Jun 11, 2020 21:15
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