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Tarnop posted:We'll start to see increased hospital admissions before then, presumably? At a guess I think due to the diff states the US probably has different testing initiatives. Whereas the UK is firmly committed to taking this on the chin in time to get brexit done E whoever said there won't be a second lockdown in the UK is correct imo E2 hospital admissions is hard to tell too, cause the UK strategy in large part seems to have been to admit as few people as possible
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Jun 12, 2020 15:30
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Communist Thoughts posted:E whoever said there won't be a second lockdown in the UK is correct imo This will absolutely be the case, and we can see the US leading the way. It's full mask off too, they're not even trying to hide it or couch it in terms beyond "we need to start making money again"
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Jun 12, 2020 15:34
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Nonce too.
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Jun 12, 2020 15:35
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It's a source of great amusement to me that sad old cunts are standing round in parks in the pouring rain "protecting" war memorials from protests that aren't happening
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Jun 12, 2020 15:50
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Just heard that the self-appointed leaders of BLM have cancelled tomorrow's demo in case the fash turn up, so everybody should definitely stay away from Hyde Park tomorrow from 1pm and certainly not pass the message on to literally everyone they know with anti-fascist sympathies
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Jun 12, 2020 16:18
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https://twitter.com/IanCornwell6/status/1271063312428666882?s=20 Very not racist very obviously real actual labour member.
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Jun 12, 2020 16:19
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Wachter posted:It's a source of great amusement to me that sad old cunts are standing round in parks in the pouring rain "protecting" war memorials from protests that aren't happening
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Jun 12, 2020 16:19
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josh04 posted:But Rory Stewart is nowhere to be found?! Never fear; the Tories' candidate for London Mayor is black! And also a massive racist
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Jun 12, 2020 16:20
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Just watching that lecture about boomers on youtube (which I'm fairly sure was linked here) and wow this chart
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Jun 12, 2020 16:23
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 'pro-african' statues to 'balance out' rhodes, jesus christ
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Jun 12, 2020 16:26
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https://twitter.com/og_tessa/status/1271019417359482880
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Jun 12, 2020 16:30
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Borrovan posted:Just heard that the self-appointed leaders of BLM have cancelled tomorrow's demo in case the fash turn up, so everybody should definitely stay away from Hyde Park tomorrow from 1pm and certainly not pass the message on to literally everyone they know with anti-fascist sympathies I'm definitely not going, so if anyone else is not going we should absolutely not meet up
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Jun 12, 2020 16:37
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Just watching that lecture about boomers on youtube (which I'm fairly sure was linked here) and wow this chart That chart is shocking and an outrage. Those are quantities, not proportions.
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Jun 12, 2020 16:44
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I am the Gen Xer with 20p, ignoring the tn scale on the side.
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Jun 12, 2020 16:55
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Dead Goon posted:I am the Gen Xer with 20p 
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Jun 12, 2020 17:10
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That Boomer Economics video was very interesting, but also very frustrating. The guy giving it is literally partially responsible for the problem he's outlining and he just acts like it was a huge surprise that it worked out this way. And his solution manages to be both ludicrously unworkable and pathetically below what is required.
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Jun 12, 2020 17:14
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Oh yeah, Camrath fudge arrived today, the apple pie is incredible. Good to hear the moggies are doing ok again too.
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Jun 12, 2020 17:34
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Just watching that lecture about boomers on youtube (which I'm fairly sure was linked here) and wow this chart 
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Jun 12, 2020 17:35
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Communist Thoughts posted:yeah mp is how b is written a lot in greek Only in modern Greek, which has switched all the pronunciations round. Lots of vowels have become 'e' too. You can tell because, for example, there's some classical play where sheep are described as going 'baaa baaa baaa' like they do but in modern Greek it would be 'veee veee veee'. Bring back Attic Greek imo (ok, they tried in the 19th century, it didn't pan out, but still).
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Jun 12, 2020 17:39
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The fabled electric sheep.
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Jun 12, 2020 17:45
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Apraxin posted:
quote:Over the last week, the mystery over the whereabouts of the head, which Moore viewed as indisputably racist, has lifted this small Derbyshire town to national prominence. Before that it was best known as the home of Royal Shrovetide, an eccentric, beloved and very English game of “medieval football” played through the streets each year. quote:As local Facebook groups lit up and a counter-petition gained thousands of signatures of its own, a protest was swiftly organised and more than 100 people showed up on Monday night. A man in a hood climbed a ladder and hung a sign over the head that said “SAVE ME”. A local councillor, Stuart Lees, spoke to outline a plan to protect the head. “Somebody is going to come along and it’ll disappear,” he said. ”If we take it down now as a town, we know where it is.” quote:Annie Smail, another student who wants the head removed, says the consequences have been profound. “Neighbours have fallen out, people are having arguments of the kind where you can’t be friends any more,” she said.
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Jun 12, 2020 18:06
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feedmegin posted:Only in modern Greek, which has switched all the pronunciations round. Lots of vowels have become 'e' too. You can tell because, for example, there's some classical play where sheep are described as going 'baaa baaa baaa' like they do but in modern Greek it would be 'veee veee veee'. Returning literature to the Attic didn't work out too well in 1942, either.
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Jun 12, 2020 18:16
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Just to report that the fudge arrived today and I had a sample of each which were great. The Great Divider was good as expected but that cinnamon apple one, wish Id ordered more. Its gonna be hard to avoid wolving it all.
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Jun 12, 2020 18:19
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TACD posted:Why would you go to all this effort and then not make this a stacked bar chart Because they want to make the problem seem smaller than it is, duh.
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Jun 12, 2020 18:23
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feedmegin posted:Only in modern Greek, which has switched all the pronunciations round. Lots of vowels have become 'e' too. You can tell because, for example, there's some classical play where sheep are described as going 'baaa baaa baaa' like they do but in modern Greek it would be 'veee veee veee'. Yeah that's right Otoh a sheep could certainly say Veee onomatopoeias aren't consistent across cultures
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Jun 12, 2020 18:25
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Lol, George Osborne is stepping down as editor of the Evening Standard, but don't worry, his replacement is David Cameron's sister-in-law.
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Jun 12, 2020 18:26
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Apraxin posted:big Not Racist head update: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/12/ashbourne-derbyshire-racist-black-bust-tory-councillor-petition Fawlty towers script .doc
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Jun 12, 2020 18:29
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This isn't a response to anything in particular, more a synthesis of other thoughts that have been bouncing around for a while. We’ve reached a point where in the US, Europe and the rest of what constitutes the ‘west’, power is slowly shifting from people who think like the Tories to people who think like the UKMT. This coincides with economic power shifting from the west to China and the Pacific more generally. I think most people in the UK have a very poor understanding of just how big and frankly how wealthy Asia now is: the total population of Europe + America is around 700 million and the total population of China is twice that, and unlike the 1990s the average person in a top tier Chinese city (probably about 300 million people in total) isn’t noticeably poorer than the average person in the UK any more. Since we buy most of our stuff from China, that means it’s getting more expensive over time relative to our ability to pay for it, and we’re a rounding error in population terms. So let’s assume these trends continue and we become, at some time after the Boris government, a fairer but poorer society. I believe that a couple of years after the first non-poo poo government gets in, this will reveal that the problems we all face aren’t just a result of capitalism. Rather, they result from the way that human beings seek status and meaning in life and the way we organise ourselves into hierarchies. The specific ways in which capitalism has failed are laid out neatly in the OP and reinforced every month when a new OP is posted. The specific ways in which communist governments have failed to create societies that people positively want to live in (rather than risking their lives to get out) are not, and if we want to do better next time it’s worth thinking about why. I’ve now worked in British, American and Chinese companies (and a few law firms), and spent some time interning in the civil service in the UK. I’ve also lived in the UK, US, Brazil and China. Based on that a few things are really prominent by recurring: * Hierarchies really suck. There is an innate human need to know whether every other human we meet is an equal, a superior or an inferior (or more cynically a peer, a threat or an opportunity). Early communist societies tried to forcibly educate this out of people but it didn’t work. So we form hierarchies and are constantly wasting time figuring out where we are in those hierarchies. This is not a specifically capitalist thing. The most successful response is probably to trick our subconscious into coding everyone else as an equal. The recent stuff on trans rights looks to me like a good example of this: probably most cis people born in the 70s or earlier mentally inhabit a world where heterosexuality is the default, homosexuality is unusual but understood, and being trans is totally outside context. In about two decades, homosexuality has been almost fully normalised and being trans has moved to unusual but understood. Also, from what anthropologists tell us, pre-modern societies managed to code each other as equal to a limited extent. Ruling classes are REALLY good at class solidarity and closing ranks to protect their 'peers' despite individual conflicts of interest. So there’s good evidence that this approach works. * By default, people everywhere are basically nice and friendly. We’re social creatures; I’ve rarely met anyone who doesn’t want to be liked or is neutral about how they are treated by others. * A very small number of people are not basically nice and friendly; they are basically indifferent to to other humans because they lack the ability to imagine being them. I really don’t know what to do with the sociopaths. Probably a civilised society would find a way to shunt them into roles that fulfil their delusions of grandeur while somehow preventing them hurting anyone else. * A very large number of people are basically nice and friendly but get hosed up by having authority inside a hierarchy. Most of the things I see people ITT (or anywhere really) complain about, and most of the things that make me so angry I want to do violence, are this group. Take the recent stuff about cops in the US or the well known problems with the DWP (or, for balance I guess, the Stasi). In all these cases, you have a bunch of people who started out ok being indoctrinated or incentivised into behaving monstrously. Having power over someone else is about the most corrosive thing possible; it fucks with our empathy, our theory of mind, everything. * Autonomy is a start but not the end. People don’t naturally self organise into large enough groups to achieve things at the scale modern society demands. So there needs to be some way of harnessing organised minds to take the lead. A lot of very talented people aren’t ambitious, or don’t think the social risk of telling other people what to do when there’s a chance of being wrong is justified by the potential reward to them, and under our current system they are usually excluded from leadership roles. This is also probably why sociopaths are overrepresented in leadership roles - their risk/reward calculus is off and they believe they are right all the time, so as a group they take a lot more opportunities that neurotypical people would pass up. I feel like a lot of the time we ITT are rehashing battles from the 1980s. Like, we know that current model capitalism is unsustainable, self-destructive and dehumanising. But if we’re honest we also know that Thatcher and Reagan won because the version of socialism offered in the 1970s ended up being kind of poo poo. So to avoid 10,000 years of Tory darkness, we probably need to find a new vision of socialism that recognises that people don’t naturally think collectively at scale and that having a bunch of people administering the common ownership of the means of production is structurally the same as having an aristocracy or oligarchy administering the common ownership of the means of production, just with slightly longer periods of fairness in the middle. I don't know how to do it but I believe the specific problem to solve is how to (i) organise at scale in a way that isn't hierarchical; (ii) give people a sense of importance and meaning in their lives when there is no hierarchy; and (iii) get us to subconsciously code each other as equals. Beefeater1980 fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Jun 12, 2020 |
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Jun 12, 2020 18:32
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Wow, thank you everyone for the feedback! Very glad to hear that the Apple Pie is going down so well- that was a recipe I came up with myself, rather than adapting or adding to a preexisting one so there’s some level of pride involved! Rest assured it will feature again in future months. 
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Jun 12, 2020 18:33
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another Fudge Report: rum and raisin remains great, new apple pie is great, the dark chocolate is chocolatey as fuuuuck and I should have ordered two of them. Next time, perhaps
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Jun 12, 2020 18:36
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Communist Thoughts posted:Yeah that's right Frogs in Belgium say Kwaak, apparently.
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Jun 12, 2020 18:37
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thespaceinvader posted:Because they want to make the problem seem smaller than it is, duh. He wrote a book and delivered a lecture about it. He might be a boomer Tory but I'm not sure he's trying to hide or minimise the problem through creative charts
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Jun 12, 2020 18:40
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Camrath posted:Wow, thank you everyone for the feedback! i told my partner about the fudge and now i will have to order some next time
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Jun 12, 2020 18:40
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Beefeater1980 posted:People don’t naturally self organise into large enough groups to achieve things at the scale modern society demands. Syndicalism encountered a raft of problems of its own that were peculiar to that model, but I think it's still one of the most compelling theories that had some successful implementation. Another alternative based on a more rigid collective structure would be Platformism as articulated by the survivors of the Ukrainian Free Territory (which itself had a population of like 5 million iirc), but a lot of contemporary theorists were pretty suspicious of it.
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Jun 12, 2020 18:41
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Miftan posted:Frogs in Belgium say Kwaak, apparently. What do the Flemish say though?
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Jun 12, 2020 18:47
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goddamnedtwisto posted:What do the Flemish say though? "We definitely do better chips than the Dutch"?
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Jun 12, 2020 18:48
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Camrath posted:Wow, thank you everyone for the feedback! When will you be open for a new order?
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Jun 12, 2020 18:51
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Miftan posted:Frogs in Belgium say Kwaak, apparently. In Greek it's "brekekex", apparently.
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Jun 12, 2020 18:51
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CGI Stardust posted:another Fudge Report: rum and raisin remains great, new apple pie is great, the dark chocolate is chocolatey as fuuuuck and I should have ordered two of them. Next time, perhaps I used 90% cocoa premium stuff for the dark choc; glad to hear it turned out well! Before Covid hit I was setting up a supply line with a Fair Trade locally owned chocolatier in Grenada who make some of the most intense chocolate I’ve ever tasted. As soon as I can get that finalised (and y’know, borders reopened etc), you’re really in for a treat Edit: I’ll be opening up for new orders next week
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Jun 12, 2020 18:51
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communism bitch posted:The anarcho-syndicalist trade unions that organised production and distribution in revolutionary Catalonia and Aragon consisted of over 100,000 members, to say nothing of the local town and village cooperatives. Your whole post is, interestingly, an almost textbook assertion of anarchist principles, minus the organisational elements. You're restating a lot of points articulated by people like Kropotkin, and Proudhon and I can't tell if you're doing so consciously or not. Yeah, I think where this naturally leads is building on the anarchist tradition somehow. Not to be too flippant about the achievements of the anarcho-syndicalists in Catalonia and Aragon, but they lost. While the productive aspect might have been great, politically and militarily they were outcompeted by statist powers. E: The modern state exists because it survived when other models of organisation didn't. Whatever is built next needs to be more adaptive than the modern state somehow.
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Jun 12, 2020 18:51
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