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Two things: 1) Teersa is just awesome. I even love her stupid hat. 2) Clooooonnnneeesssss!
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Jun 13, 2020 15:20
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Can I just say how much I'm enjoying all the reactions 
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Jun 13, 2020 15:48
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kw0134 posted:The argument that it's deliberately subverting YA expectations is because if we just wanted to do the "flatten village" opener, they could have easily cut Bast/Vala entirely. "Subverting YA expectations" only applies if you interpret Horizon Zero Dawn as whose narrative lies within the young adult genre, but I cannot see how you can interpret Aloy and the world's story as a young adult story. Aloy has effectively skipped puberty, she has no interest or teenage-awkwardness in romance, and despite her isolation for 18 years, she is extraordinarily affable and charismatic. The themes and conflicts in the narrative are not connected to Aloy's age or immaturity. Having Bast/Vala die is a common trope. Their deaths serve two functions. First, primarily, as Aloy's rivals who nearly beat her, having so easily died to a minigun shows how powerful this weapon is especially in a post-post apocalyptic world where the main weapons of choice are bows and arrows. And secondly, they serve as some emotional weight to an unnamed mass of Aloy's competitors. From Aloy's and your perspective, would you really care if the Nora village actually die? Maybe if Teb died, maybe if Teersa died, and Rost was not part of the village. You may not even care about Bast and Vala; I know I don't, but having named faces for the Proving massacre give more weight than whomever died in the War Party ambush. Also, Vala's death allows you and Aloy to develop some ground to understand Sona to whom you have not been properly introduced. edit: grammar and clarity Flair fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Jun 13, 2020 |
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Jun 13, 2020 16:04
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Flair is right. We gotta give the characters other than Aloy some stake in this too. If she was the only one in danger at the Proving, the Nora could all be like Resh and just kick Aloy out, chosen one or not. But she wasn’t the only one in danger there, and she wants to help avenge those lucky enough to escape. Let’s not forget that she also has the skill to do that- she took down the guy with the mini gun and a lot of other jerks before Crispin Freeman showed up. And she won the Proving, which serves to get her to the village when it’s in danger and put her next to the other victims of the killers. Having Aloy go out to avenge the friends she just made (and the foes too, she may not care about Bast but she’s still after his killers) fits with the game’s larger theme put forward in Rost’s final lesson. You need to serve a purpose larger than yourself. You need to do good for the tribe, he says, and Aloy expands that to the world. We will see this theme again.
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Jun 13, 2020 16:40
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Rewarding big families is a great idea and survival strategy.
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Jun 13, 2020 16:46
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Scalding Coffee posted:Rewarding big families is a great idea and survival strategy. lol
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Jun 13, 2020 16:52
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achtungnight posted:Flair is right. We gotta give the characters other than Aloy some stake in this too. If she was the only one in danger at the Proving, the Nora could all be like Resh and just kick Aloy out, chosen one or not. But she wasn’t the only one in danger there, and she wants to help avenge those lucky enough to escape. Let’s not forget that she also has the skill to do that- she took down the guy with the mini gun and a lot of other jerks before Crispin Freeman showed up. And she won the Proving, which serves to get her to the village when it’s in danger and put her next to the other victims of the killers. Having Aloy go out to avenge the friends she just made (and the foes too, she may not care about Bast but she’s still after his killers) fits with the game’s larger theme put forward in Rost’s final lesson. You need to serve a purpose larger than yourself. You need to do good for the tribe, he says, and Aloy expands that to the world. Flair posted:
As far as whether it's specifically a YA game, no, but it's clearly a bildungsroman which for obvious reasons takes a lot of the same ideas. This is not to say this is for a juvenile audience, but there's a lot of overlap involved.
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Jun 13, 2020 17:24
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kw0134 posted:The basic problem is that they've been introduced so quickly and went away so quickly that we don't get any idea of their qualities as a brave. I agree their introduction and prompt conclusion were very weak narratives. The story could have done something else to make for a nuance story. That being said, we know, based on the close finish in the proving, that Vala and Bast are almost as capable as her which is saying a little more about them than her since Vala and Bast do not use a focus. And thanks to Vala and Bast, a few of the other newly appointed braves manage to escape before the minigun shows up. kw0134 posted:Bast dying with all his bravado stripped was interesting, but otherwise the minigun...kind of speaks for itself! It's pretty obvious that if your best weapon is a bow, then something that churns out a 100RPM is pretty drat devastating! You're running with your crew, a good dozen strong, and they just get mowed down. I think we can quibble over the effectiveness of introducing characters and then immediately killing them, but for sheer "wtf just happened" it stands on its own. We know what a minigun is capable of, but Aloy and the others do not know. Vala dies from using a wooden statue as cover; the cover normally stops arrows, but bullets just go through. Aloy gets to see that. And in this interactive medium, Aloy herself may get to use the gun herself to see how much quickly she can kill with it than with arrows and sticks. Anyway, I do like how Bast's bravado is peeled away, and thus we get to see that he is a reliable teammate who cares about the people around him. He actually saves Aloy from the minigun fire, and he is upset when Vala dies. kw0134 posted:As far as whether it's specifically a YA game, no, but it's clearly a bildungsroman which for obvious reasons takes a lot of the same ideas. This is not to say this is for a juvenile audience, but there's a lot of overlap involved. I know about bildungsromans, and I know that bildungsroman narratives can be written outside of the YA genre with YA characters such as "It" by Stephen King. Nevertheless, I disagree that this story is a bildungsroman. The narrative is instead following the hero's journey. Aloy is venturing outside, probably going to stop a second machine war as she learns to command them, and then come back to the Nora as a legendary hero. Now, there are no reasons why a given narrative cannot be both, but I do not see any major flaws in Aloy's moral or psychological character that can be attributed to her age or immaturity. She risks her own safety to help those in need, she can talk to others, etc.
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Jun 13, 2020 18:28
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OutofSight posted:When Aloy enters the chamber with the "Identyscan"-door, there is something like a metal "pinecone" hanging from the ceiling. This is the the tip of one of those octopus arms of that giant metal squid sitting there on the moutain, isn't it? Probably explains why the other matriarch doesn't like us. She likely figures we got dropped out of that instead of shoved out of the door.
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Jun 13, 2020 18:44
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bildungsromans and hero's journeys are not entirely mutually exclusive. also credit where it is owed, Mathijs de Jonge is a solid director and GG's writing is a lot subtler and nuanced than a laot of people give them credit for. The Killzone series is more clever than its reputation as a glorified tech demo gives it--people expressed disbelief that H:ZD was made by the same developers. partly I think the problem was that the people who would've appreciated the nuance in storytelling weren't attracted to another sci-fi space nazi FPS, whereas the people who DID play Killzone didn't give a poo poo about the plot and just want to play space nazi team fortress. I still think Rico Velasquez is one of the most interesting and complex anti-heroes/villains to be porteayed in an FPS. the man is preeminently hateable in a myriad of ways, but also deeply human and deeply sympathetic. what i'm trying to say is... kw0134 posted:
...I don't think any of what we're reading into this is accidental or good fortune after gross mismanagement! this is the quality of writing i expect from these devs!
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Jun 13, 2020 19:02
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Dash Rendar posted:bildungsromans and hero's journeys are not entirely mutually exclusive. Yes, I agree. Like I said, "there are no reasons why a given narrative cannot be both". An excellent example would be the Persona series.
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Jun 13, 2020 19:18
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that means the Minigun Dude is the Threshold Guardian and that's a pretty metal guardian to have.
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Jun 13, 2020 19:24
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A lot of characters in the game could be Threshold Guardians. Rost intended the Sawtooth he pitted Aloy against to be one, didn’t exactly work out that way but it still counts. Bast makes a good Distraction or Starter Villain as someone Aloy needs to overcome, Lansra too. The Corrupter is a machine none of the Nora has ever seen or fought before, and it can slave other machines to its will. Aloy can see it’s weak to fire and she defeats one. And of course there’s Crispin Freeman knocking aside arrows with his bracers and killing our mentor while being too tough for us to beat and yet too dumb to finish us off once he has us down. Perhaps the best heroes have a threshold they continually adjust behind guardians they need to defeat.
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Jun 13, 2020 21:12
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I really love the story speculations. I feel almost sad that I can't participate as I already know the plot.achtungnight posted:A lot of characters in the game could be Threshold Guardians. Rost intended the Sawtooth he pitted Aloy against to be one, didn’t exactly work out that way but it still counts. Bast makes a good Distraction or Starter Villain as someone Aloy needs to overcome, Lansra too. The Corrupter is a machine none of the Nora has ever seen or fought before, and it can slave other machines to its will. Aloy can see it’s weak to fire and she defeats one. And of course there’s Crispin Freeman knocking aside arrows with his bracers and killing our mentor while being too tough for us to beat and yet too dumb to finish us off once he has us down. Perhaps the best heroes have a threshold they continually adjust behind guardians they need to defeat.
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Jun 13, 2020 22:47
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^^^ what VS said though so far this encounter feels like it makes a strong case for the "Initiation" part of the cycle. and what with spotting the Aloy look-alike. now we're at the part where Aloy will truly begin her transformation. (i may he offbase. i am admittedly listening to the vids while doing chores rather than sitting and actively watching)
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Jun 13, 2020 23:02
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An on another topic, are there are any games where the Protag's parental figure doesn't die? Besides like, Pokemon
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Jun 14, 2020 01:30
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The new God of War?
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Jun 14, 2020 01:31
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I too like how Teersa's language helps sell the religious aspect of what's going on. She took in the same information Aloy and the audience did but contextualized it in an accurate (if religiously flowery) version when telling the other Matriarchs.kw0134 posted:The basic problem is that they've been introduced so quickly and went away so quickly that we don't get any idea of their qualities as a brave. Bast dying with all his bravado stripped was interesting, but otherwise the minigun...kind of speaks for itself! It's pretty obvious that if your best weapon is a bow, then something that churns out a 100RPM is pretty drat devastating! You're running with your crew, a good dozen strong, and they just get mowed down. I think we can quibble over the effectiveness of introducing characters and then immediately killing them, but for sheer "wtf just happened" it stands on its own. Their deaths also serve to set the tone of the story. In a lighter toned story they would have survived and lived to back Aloy up in some way. Nothing makes comrades like shared danger. But they didn't. So it's darker. It does make the corrupter's appearance and attack vector a bit extra scary/intense for it too. It's a tradeoff and a deliberate decision to do it this way and IMO it's effective enough. Bast and Vala had enough of an introduction to sell the 'twist' of their death.
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Jun 14, 2020 01:31
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:An on another topic, are there are any games where the Protag's parental figure doesn't die? Mass Effect 1 if you pick the Spacer origin (mum calls you on the space phone) and Stardew Valley (you get letters from your parents), but like Pokemon that might fall into the bracket of "not dead because barely present". Celeste would also be in that category. If you allow games in the "save your parent" bracket, Dishonored 2 as Emily, and Crypt of the Necrodancer? The only game I can think of where your parental figure is definitely not dead, is a significant character in the story as it progresses but is not either in distress or the actual villain would be your father in Long Live the Queen...whose story opens immediately after your mother's funeral. I guess, depending on how you interpret the story of the game, Portal 2?
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Jun 14, 2020 02:14
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Crono's mom
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Jun 14, 2020 03:09
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I always read Teersa as always intending to make Aloy a seeker due partially to her not giving a poo poo about nora laws. She'll go anywhere, talk to anyone and do ANYTHING she sets her mind to, not giving a drat for taboos. Whether she won the proving or just completed it, Teersa may have told her what she needed anyway due to being born of the mountain. Any other Seeker would be useless due to hesitating to go somewhere that they weren't ~supposed~ to. I also like the treatment of Larsa and Resh, everyone hates both of them because they are assholes. Larsa's constantly being talked over and dismissed by Teersa because she's a dumb idiot. Also the Allmother statues around town are neat because she is portrayed as having the same tentacles as the Metal Devil. There is a cool visual thing in the embrace that I don't know if you know about, nothing collectible there or of any plot relevance, it's just a cool visual thing in the Embrace that's not immediately obvious. Let me know if it's OK to elaborate. I have a video I made of it to show it off for my friends. BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Jun 15, 2020 |
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Jun 15, 2020 12:55
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In the cutscene where Teersa makes Aloy the seeker, she hands over the "mark of the seeker" but they don't show what it is. I couldn't see any differences in Aloy in the rest of the video, and wondered if the mark was something you have to show people, like a scroll, which is otherwise kept in the inventory. So, I got curious and, googled it. It turns out, the mark is visible and looks like this:  Now, that looks significant and large, but when you zoom out you realise it's just a tiny little thing she wears on her belt that you can barely see. Linked because it's an outfit and area of the map we haven't seen yet, but I can't see anything in it which looks like it's actually a spoiler. I added the not worksafe tags because some people run extensions which automatically turn urls into imgs.  https://i.imgur.com/OLdrDya.jpg
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Jun 15, 2020 13:41
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Megillah Gorilla posted:I added the not worksafe tags because some people run extensions which automatically turn urls into imgs. are you saying you're okay with exposed midriffs you heathen
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Jun 15, 2020 13:47
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BioEnchanted posted:There is a cool visual thing in the embrace that I don't know if you know about, nothing collectible there or of any plot relevance, it's just a cool visual thing in the Embrace that's not immediately obvious. Let me know if it's OK to elaborate. I have a video I made of it to show it off for my friends.
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Jun 16, 2020 00:24
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:An on another topic, are there are any games where the Protag's parental figure doesn't die? I'd say Xenoblade Chronicles, the protagonist's actual parents are dead but his two mentors don't die. (In XC2 the daddy figure gets reborn as a cute sidekick, that should count as being dead.)
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Jun 16, 2020 01:27
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SubponticatePoster posted:Sure, that's not spoilers. Basically, there is a river in the west leading to a machine nest, in the tutorial part of the map before it even opens up - you find an enormous tree that's set at an angle that you can jump up (there is a steep rock as a ramp that leads to the more horizontal part, it's a running jump from there). If you jump all the way up, then partway there is an area with a crack in the branch/trunk you can fall down in to go inside it and you see half the "tree" is actually an ancient airplane or something like that. I left the video out of the post because there is a small mission description spoiler. This is a pic of the tree in question: 
BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jun 16, 2020 |
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Jun 16, 2020 04:50
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So two things. 1: When I was a sailor I learned how to do a lot of fancy knotwork and I loved it. Seeing all the ropework all over the village makes me very happy but also makes me think, "That is a LOT of manhours put into making fancy stuff." 2: That does not look like a minigun. Maybe an autocannon.
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Jun 16, 2020 17:40
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Deadmeat5150 posted:"That is a LOT of manhours put into making fancy stuff." That's just something people do. The bit from the director of Fury Road about how 'even in the wasteland, people will seek to make beautiful things' is real true.
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Jun 16, 2020 19:58
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Night10194 posted:That's just something people do. The bit from the director of Fury Road about how 'even in the wasteland, people will seek to make beautiful things' is real true. This exemplifies my biggest beef (other than the atrocious writing) with FO3 & 4. It's 200+ yrs after the apocalypse, and everything still looks like recent warzone. So seeing a post-post-apocalypse society like the Nora actually building new things, and making art, is really really nice.
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Jun 16, 2020 21:28
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Deadmeat5150 posted:So two things.  Agreed! Back when I used to work on bulk cargo ships, every now and then we'd get an older guy who really knew his knots. The guy could be hungover to hell and back, barely know who and where he is, but his splices were always so drat elegant. Night10194 posted:That's just something people do. The bit from the director of Fury Road about how 'even in the wasteland, people will seek to make beautiful things' is real true. AltaBrown posted:This exemplifies my biggest beef (other than the atrocious writing) with FO3 & 4. It's 200+ yrs after the apocalypse, and everything still looks like recent warzone. Thanks y'all for putting into words what was and is bugging me about a lot of post-(post)-apocalypse fiction. It's like everyone is content to just sit in a mound of rubble and detritus - and if you have a hole to poo poo into, that's a luxury.
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Jun 17, 2020 09:05
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The clothing's another thing I really like about the setting, too often in media designers assume that sewing with anything finer than huge leather straps is strictly an early modern invention, rather than being one of humanity's oldest technologies. Most people in the game have clothing that looks skilfully made, rather than everyone running around in some "primitive" ill-fitting rags or cutting about in grimy pre-war suits or whatever.
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Jun 17, 2020 10:40
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That's also true of the architecture, people like living in places that, if they can't make them excellent, are at least defined, and a big one is defining inside and outside, no one likes having see through walls or floors and whatnot, and that's something that holds true no matter the construction material, concrete, rough hewn stone, steel and glass and fiberglass, dried mud bricks, wood, scavenged sheets of corrugated iron. Just having a hole in your wall that isn't explicitly a window or a door is something we hate and we'll just fix it, in some way or another.
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Jun 17, 2020 15:18
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Or like in Skyrim where every wooden home has massive holes and gaps in every surface.
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Jun 17, 2020 16:21
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Look, man, the artist who worked on the godrays had a particularly sharp pencil, no one wanted to mess with him, so~ Who am I kidding, some manager just wanted a whole bunch of godrays so it got put in everywhere.
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Jun 17, 2020 16:54
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The one that gets me worse of all is the crummy stockades. Oh, they have to look primitive so that means sloppy and full of holes, but no, the stockade exists to keep out wild animals, if wild dogs can slip in, it's no good, and if they can, the inhabitants, be they exiled kids or bandits, will fix it because gently caress having wild dogs make it in, threaten you and snack on your food. I'm happy we haven't sen any of that yet.
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Jun 17, 2020 21:08
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Wide open spaces We're heading out into the great beyond. As we pass through the gate a young man is stabbing the poo poo out of a robit. This is Varl, and he's a cool dude. He's Vala's brother (  ) and Sona's son. Sona being the warchief. He asks us to go look for her since she disappeared after the war party got their rear end handed to them. We make a non-committal answer but we will do that pretty much right away. This is an optional quest even though it's listed under main. You don't have to do it now, and you don't have to do it at all. Your choice in the matter comes up later. Riding around we meet a rather strange fellow named Nil. He has a thing for bandits. Well, killing them anyway. We can meet up with him later outside a bandit camp. And then we discover our first Tallneck. They're kind of a Diplodocus thing with a flat head. The head is actually some kind of radar/sonar and overriding one will uncover a chunk of the map. There are 10 in the game, and we get some idea of just how goddamn big the map really is. Keep in mind what's shown is just a small corner. 10 tallnecks, multiply area by 10 and that'll give you some scale. Then we track Sona down. Sona does not gently caress around. It's really nice to see the war chief is a woman and PoC at that. She takes us to a camp full of the bad guys to raid. The actual fireworks will be next video.
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Jun 18, 2020 00:47
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Reveilled posted:The clothing's another thing I really like about the setting, too often in media designers assume that sewing with anything finer than huge leather straps is strictly an early modern invention, rather than being one of humanity's oldest technologies. Most people in the game have clothing that looks skilfully made, rather than everyone running around in some "primitive" ill-fitting rags or cutting about in grimy pre-war suits or whatever. I love the clothing design, it's realistically skillful like you say, and I can never get enough of the twist from cliche animal bones and such to old machine parts. So good.
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Jun 18, 2020 01:12
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Finally, we meet Nil. We're gonna run into him a few more times, and he's...interesting to say the least. For a couple reasons, but to say more would be spoilers for his questline.
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Jun 18, 2020 01:23
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 Tallnecks are awesome, they're like something out of a Roger Dean painting. They're another thing I spend an inordinate time on in photo mode.
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Jun 18, 2020 01:41
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Playing Death Stranding, the first time I went by a shelter with a big ol' tallneck holo I was like "Is that a loving tallneck?" 
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Jun 18, 2020 02:36
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