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ZenMasterBullshit posted:It's not the whole of it but if you think "Fought the Nazi's " was enough to cleanse Churchill's sins to the point you have to build a holy statue of him in your cities and protect it like they are you're a fool or a monster. You know who else fought the Nazis? That's right,
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Jun 13, 2020 23:30
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:It's not the whole of it but if you think "Fought the Nazi's " was enough to cleanse Churchill's sins to the point you have to build a holy statue of him in your cities and protect it like they are you're a fool or a monster. Good thing I don't think that and never said it.
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Jun 13, 2020 23:32
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Churchill, Stalin, and FDR were all loving monsters to various degrees
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Jun 13, 2020 23:32
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https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1271922336191610890?s=20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qyygcMX8S0
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Jun 13, 2020 23:40
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If you think churchill was good because he fought nazis, just wait til you hear about the guy who killed hitler
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Jun 13, 2020 23:48
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3D Megadoodoo posted:Everyone who owns a firearm should be imprisoned for life.
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Jun 13, 2020 23:50
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cool dance moves posted:If you think churchill was good because he fought nazis, just wait til you hear about the guy who killed hitler Stalin?
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Jun 13, 2020 23:52
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Stalin? Bill Murray. And as Hitler gasped his last, Murray leaned down and whispered into his ear, "And no one will ever believe you."
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Jun 13, 2020 23:53
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Some people who were in the Bunker say that Hitler didn't even shoot himself, he was too cowardly to do it so he had his butler shoot him.
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Jun 13, 2020 23:54
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Actually it was the dog, she was really pissed that hitler slipped cyanide in her kibble and managed to take him out before it took effect
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Jun 13, 2020 23:56
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I don't know if I like the gritty reboot of Clue.
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Jun 13, 2020 23:58
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cool dance moves posted:Actually it was the dog, she was really pissed that hitler slipped cyanide in her kibble and managed to take him out before it took effect There's footage of that https://youtu.be/-1G3BKfD1VI?t=51 But Stalin is a good example, because he helped defeat the nazis doesn't mean the massive list of terrible things he did are ignored, and the Russians sure as hell didn't keep statues of him around. The guy I know who grew up in the USSR and later Russian Federation told me that they basically teach Stalin as "he was a horrible piece of poo poo that killed more Russians than the nazis did, and took all the credit for the Red Army's work in defeating them". I'm legit interested in what FDR did that is outside of an white male in the early 20th century would normally do.
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Jun 14, 2020 00:13
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twistedmentat posted:I'm legit interested in what FDR did that is outside of an white male in the early 20th century would normally do. Japanese internment?
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Jun 14, 2020 00:19
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Jose posted:https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1271922336191610890?s=20 I thought this was going to be Willy wonka
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Jun 14, 2020 00:24
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:what's interesting to me so far is how little they've seemed to matter as opposed to being swept up in events and trailing them, not affecting events in a real way, and i'm interested in analyzing the reasons for that. maybe they will matter at some time the future. maybe they don't need to matter -- from the perspective of the top-state people -- because we're not at the level where wall street has to call in the irregulars yet. So there's a really cool book called The Iron Dream by Norman Spinrad (which I've sadly only read bits from because it has a bad habit of being interpreted as Nazi propaganda rather than meta critique and gets banned by a ton of well meaning institutions), and it basically points out that post-apocalyptic fiction has a nasty habit of lauding fascist tenants (might makes right, force of will remaking society, the superiority of the technocrat, etc), and I suspect this has a major influence over the Boogaloo movement. These aren't guys who take the time to learn theory or praxis, they're disenfranchised white dudes who play Paradox games and ARMA3. They don't know how to kick off a war or even really how to fight one, they dream of Praxis at the end of a gun and the only consequences being those they assign themselves (What I like to call "The Renegade Run"). There's a specific book that I think is representative of what the Boogaloo is supposed to be for these guys: Go Go Girls of the Apocalypse by Victor Gischler. A guy gets sick of society, loads up a ton of supplies and holes up in a mountain. One day he gets bored and goes down the mountain to see people and oops! Society has collapsed! Yet capitalism still reigns supreme and while everything has the "Grimy Noughties FPS brown" shader there's still booze and prostitutes and cars and now there's cool Mad Max poo poo to do too! I think that's why the majority of these guys don't get involved: They don't know how because they are using Underpants Gnomes Economic Theory.
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Jun 14, 2020 00:50
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twistedmentat posted:There's footage of that I'm not sure I would take the oligarch run Russian goverments version of the stalin years at face value
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Jun 14, 2020 00:54
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3D Megadoodoo posted:Everyone who owns a firearm should be imprisoned for life. lmao how are we going to get rid of the nazis without guns?
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Jun 14, 2020 01:06
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BraveUlysses posted:lmao how are we going to get rid of the nazis without guns? We use guns to arrest them, and then arrest ourselves for also using guns DUH
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Jun 14, 2020 01:10
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BraveUlysses posted:lmao how are we going to get rid of the nazis without guns? have you tried asking politely?
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Jun 14, 2020 01:11
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twistedmentat posted:Some people who were in the Bunker say that Hitler didn't even shoot himself, he was too cowardly to do it so he had his butler shoot him. this loving guy  for real if you haven't watched The Death Of Stalin shame on you it's so loving good
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Jun 14, 2020 01:28
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Chillgamesh posted:Japanese internment? Outside of a literal card-carrying socialist/communist winning the presidency, I feel like that was just gonna happen, because a) America was even more super racist back then, and b) didn't give a gently caress who knew it. His Good Neighbor policy towards Latin America alone puts him so far ahead of every president who followed him that we're getting into "Lincoln was a monster because we were fighting Native Americans concurrently with the Confederacy" territory.
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Jun 14, 2020 01:46
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Flesh Forge posted:this loving guy I literally changed my avatar to Zhukov right after getting back from seeing it. Pomp posted:I'm not sure I would take the oligarch run Russian goverments version of the stalin years at face value He's my age so he was in elementry school during the end of the USSR and high school during the Yeltsen years for context. Chillgamesh posted:Japanese internment? Also German and Italian, but as I said, that seems like something pretty typical for the era to be that racist. Nothing on the level of Churchill or Stalin.
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Jun 14, 2020 02:03
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pretty much any “great man” of history is gonna have a ton of skeletons in their closet. you don’t generally change the world by being a nice, polite person.
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Jun 14, 2020 02:13
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Fred Rogers
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Jun 14, 2020 02:51
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Gringostar posted:Churchill, Stalin, and FDR were all loving monsters to various degrees
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Jun 14, 2020 04:13
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:the best outcome of world war II was the collapse of the european colonial empires. the war between churchill and hitler can be understood as a family feud (churchill was pro-mussolini for a time) but from the perspective of many people in the third world churchill might as well have been another adolf hitler or tojo. the U.S. comes across looking better because it pushed for decolonization. there's a cool board game called 'churchill' that's basically a ww2 game except the players are the us, uk, and ussr and the core gameplay is having your staff members arguing at conferences on where to assign troops and spies so your country comes out on top in the post war era
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Jun 14, 2020 04:46
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:the best outcome of world war II was the collapse of the european colonial empires. the war between churchill and hitler can be understood as a family feud (churchill was pro-mussolini for a time) but from the perspective of many people in the third world churchill might as well have been another adolf hitler or tojo. the U.S. comes across looking better because it pushed for decolonization. UK voters tossing him out on his rear end just 15 minutes after the war ended is one of my favorite 20th century political stories. StashAugustine posted:there's a cool board game called 'churchill' that's basically a ww2 game except the players are the us, uk, and ussr and the core gameplay is having your staff members arguing at conferences on where to assign troops and spies so your country comes out on top in the post war era 
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Jun 14, 2020 05:43
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3D Megadoodoo posted:Everyone who owns a firearm should be imprisoned for life. gently caress off, lib.
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Jun 14, 2020 05:48
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twistedmentat posted:He's my age so he was in elementry school during the end of the USSR and high school during the Yeltsen years for context. that's funny because yeltsin ended up killing about as many russians as stalin did
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Jun 14, 2020 08:03
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twistedmentat posted:I'm legit interested in what FDR did that is outside of an white male in the early 20th century would normally do. Social Security is pretty cool. Some of the New Deal programs were sweet, like just paying artists to do poo poo sometimes. While he left him in the lurch and stuck us with Truman, his VP Henry Wallace was probably the closest that we have come to having someone who was cool in the big chair.
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Jun 14, 2020 09:18
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:the best outcome of world war II was the collapse of the european colonial empires. the war between churchill and hitler can be understood as a family feud (churchill was pro-mussolini for a time) but from the perspective of many people in the third world churchill might as well have been another adolf hitler or tojo. the U.S. comes across looking better because it pushed for decolonization. If by accident of birth Churchill had been the children of Prussian Junkers a opposed to English nobility its not hard to imagine him giving full-throated support to the Nazis.
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Jun 14, 2020 11:33
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twistedmentat posted:There's footage of that * Looks at your avatar gulagishly.
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Jun 14, 2020 11:45
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:the best outcome of world war II was the collapse of the european colonial empires. the war between churchill and hitler can be understood as a family feud (churchill was pro-mussolini for a time) but from the perspective of many people in the third world churchill might as well have been another adolf hitler or tojo. the U.S. comes across looking better because it pushed for decolonization. Churchill was a racist and a drunk and a mass murderer and terrible at any kind of warfare or strategy but this is a weird take. Churchill and Hitler were brothers because Churchill was pro Mussolini for a time? Mussolini was an elder statesman of Europe by the time of WW2, he'd been in charge for 20 years, lots of people were pro-Mussolini in the hopes that he could broker a deal with Germany and maintain peace (also, notable among people who didn't like Mussolini: Hitler). Also the European colonial empires didn't collapse so much as were forcibly absorbed into the post-war hegemony. Noble and pure "decolonization" as pushed by the good-as-gold Americans was every bit as exploitative as what came before, it was just more technically sophisticated.
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Jun 14, 2020 11:56
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BraveUlysses posted:lmao how are we going to get rid of the nazis without guns? One does not need to own a firearm to use a firearm.
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Jun 14, 2020 14:58
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Flesh Forge posted:this loving guy Seconding the movie recommendation. It was on Netflix a couple months ago though I dunno if it's still there. The actor who played Beria was  at being a slimy, scheming monster.
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Jun 14, 2020 16:04
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cool dance moves posted:Seconding the movie recommendation. It was on Netflix a couple months ago though I dunno if it's still there. The actor who played Beria was Dick Cheney as Himself as Lavrentiy Beria
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Jun 14, 2020 16:13
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The Death of Stalin is a top-tier movie.
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Jun 14, 2020 16:18
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Jason Isaacs steals the show as Zhukov but Steve Buscemi as Khrushchev is inspired casting
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Jun 14, 2020 16:20
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it was my little bros birthday on thursday and to celebrate I picked up food from a local brewpub and we ate it while watching death of stalin
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Jun 14, 2020 16:42
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StashAugustine posted:Jason Isaacs steals the show as Zhukov but Steve Buscemi as Khrushchev is inspired casting I love how they just left everyone with their regular accents to represent the various accents that existed in the USSR. Stalin as a cockney is great. I imagine Trumps death will be similar.
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Jun 14, 2020 17:46
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